OT: NBA Playoffs

[toby83]

Brown and Tatum both were tying to get in the paint, Knick Defense was so good.

Nothing inside killing them. Porzingas invisible when he got on floor. Hortford has been garbage contributing nothing and now lost all confidence to shoot his three because they have been so off. When he touches ball I literally yell SHOOT IT.
Holiday offers pretty much nothing on offense, makes dumb passes and don't mind him shooting either.

When the Knicks have Bridges and Anunoby playing good stretches gives them a third guy who can cover them for a quarter.

Mitchell Robinson staying on floor even though they keep getting desperate and put him on line. Crazy he was +19 yesterday in a one pt game where losing throughout.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Mitch was a big part of making Tatum uncomfortable on the Celtics’ last play, slowing him down, forcing him to his left and then out of the lane, and causing that highly-contested fade away, with Bridges and Anunoby then stuffing it. So good.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

10-40 from 3

LoL.....Knicks were only 9-31 from 3. So that essentially blows up your "whoever makes more 3 pointers wins" premise. Again....it would be helpful if you watched the games instead of just trolling here because you don't like the NBA.

 

[toby83]

Mitch was a big part of making Tatum uncomfortable on the Celtics’ last play, slowing him down, forcing him to his left and then out of the lane, and causing that highly-contested fade away, with Bridges and Anunoby then stuffing it. So good.

He was actually going to pass to Brown when he couldn't get shot off, Brown was WIDE open, good thing they stuffed the pass

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

LoL.....Knicks were only 9-31 from 3. So that essentially blows up your "whoever makes more 3 pointers wins" premise. Again....it would be helpful if you watched the games instead of just trolling here because you don't like the NBA.

14.4-40 vs 10-40
11.16-31 vs 9-31

Still a net 6.72 points which is more than the final score differential.

It sounds like the NYK defense (with regards to 3 point shooting) did contribute to lowering the "expected" rate from 3 AND given that Boston likes to shoot them kept their attempts low.

It sounds like the NYK defense was the primary reason for the win, which sounds great to me.

Still if Boston shot 36% from 3 they win going away.

 

[willisneverrana43]

He was actually going to pass to Brown when he couldn't get shot off, Brown was WIDE open, good thing they stuffed the pass

It was fun and nerve-wracking to watch the Knicks D make decisions on whether and when to collapse on Tatum as opposed to staying with their man. That's the whole ballgame when a great offensive player like Tatum has the ball at the end of the game. After Mitch and then Anunoby forced Tatum out of the lane, Bridges finally chose to leave Brown and collapse on Tatum. It was precisely the right moment to do it. Tatum had just turned his back to Brown, toward the basket and was rising up to shoot. Brown wasn't wide open, he was just all alone. Tatum was surrounded. And you're right that Tatum ultimately chose not to shoot. Anunoby (having properly left Horford, who was solely trying to set picks throughout the possession) was in between Taum and the basket and all over him, so Tatum tried to turn and pass it to Brown. But he had no earthly chance at making that pass because Bridges had properly collapsed on Tatum. He stuffed the pass and just took the ball.

That was one of the best team-defense sequences you'll ever see in a big moment. So good.

 

[seansherm]

Mitch was a big part of making Tatum uncomfortable on the Celtics’ last play, slowing him down, forcing him to his left and then out of the lane, and causing that highly-contested fade away, with Bridges and Anunoby then stuffing it. So good.

Mitch and OG played that Horford pick perfectly at the top, and then through the paint with OG staying w Tatum and Bridges joining while Mitch stayed with Al. Really think Tatum thought Horford's roll to the basket wouldn't be covered.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

What the media and some fans are missing about the series:

Boston's poor shooting isn't all about them. The Knicks are playing solid defense and forcing the Celtics into some shots they don't want to take. Going 8 minutes without scoring has signs of defensive pressure playing a part.
Everyone says the Celtics are playing poorly, but the Knicks aren't lighting the world on fire.
Tatum and Brown are scorers, but not closers like Brunson.
Both teams have issues during this series, but not all Boston's issues.

People who never watch the NBA are the ones who think that good defense has nothing to do with offensive struggles.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Mitch and OG played that Horford pick perfectly at the top . . . .

Precisely right. They waited and forced Tatum to commit. The previous trip down the floor, they committed early and Tatum blew by for a dunk. Great adjustment.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

People who never watch the NBA are the ones who think that good defense has nothing to do with offensive struggles.

It defintely has an impact, but there is no denying the variability of 3 point shooting and the impact on the game.

Without looking it up I'll bet the teams that made the playoffs are better on defense relative to the average as opposed to oiffense.

Ran some numbers.....standard deviation of offensive and defensive efficiency

Regular season
Offense standard deviation was 3.796
Defense was 3.11

Playoffs
off SD 7.16
def SD 7.96

Oklahoma City appears to be the best defensive team both in regular season and in the plaoyffs

 

[RUInsanityToo]

14.4-40 vs 10-40
11.16-31 vs 9-31

Still a net 6.72 points which is more than the final score differential.

It sounds like the NYK defense (with regards to 3 point shooting) did contribute to lowering the "expected" rate from 3 AND given that Boston likes to shoot them kept their attempts low.

It sounds like the NYK defense was the primary reason for the win, which sounds great to me.

Still if Boston shot 36% from 3 they win going away.

Now let me try.....

• From 2pt range Celtics shot 44% (24-54) from 2 / Knicks shot 51% (28-55) . If both teams shot their season averages Celtics would have had a +8.28 point differential - which is higher than the 3-point diff you derived.
• Free Throw differential from season attempt averages would have meant +8 points in the Knicks favor.

As much as you're trying to prove otherwise - there's a nuance to the game found in both other stats and how effective the opposing defense might be.

This is why they actually play the games.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Now let me try.....

• From 2pt range Celtics shot 44% (24-54) from 2 / Knicks shot 51% (28-55) . If both teams shot their season averages Celtics would have had a +8.28 point differential - which is higher than the 3-point diff you derived.
• Free Throw differential from season attempt averages would have meant +8 points in the Knicks favor.

As much as you're trying to prove otherwise - there's a nuance to the game found in both other stats and how effective the opposing defense might be.

This is why they actually play the games.

....and that was the primary reason NYK won this game. Doesn't change the thought that the variability in 3 point shooting is usually a multiple (2X-4X) times more important.

As you demonstrated, in this particular game it was most likely NYK defense throughout the entire court won the game.

 

[seansherm]

It defintely has an impact, but there is no denying the variability of 3 point shooting and the impact on the game.

Without looking it up I'll bet the teams that made the playoffs are better on defense relative to the average as opposed to oiffense.

Ran some numbers.....standard deviation of offensive and defensive efficiency

Regular season
Offense standard deviation was 3.796
Defense was 3.11

Playoffs
off SD 7.16
def SD 7.96

Oklahoma City appears to be the best defensive team both in regular season and in the plaoyffs

That OKC team scored 149 last night too. Good combo.

 

[cubuffsdoug_rivals]

The bottom line is that the Celtics are practicing insanity, doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results. Meanwhile, the Knicks continue to adapt their game based on the situation. They are also more committed to playing defense, which makes a huge difference in the playoffs.

 

[seansherm]

The bottom line is that the Celtics are practicing insanity, doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results. Meanwhile, the Knicks continue to adapt their game based on the situation. They are also more committed to playing defense, which makes a huge difference in the playoffs.

I thought the Celtics switched it up and made a big effort to get at the rim last night. 50% of the Celtics three attempts in these two games were wide open, meaning no one within 6 feet of the shooter. They have to take those. Luckily they are just missing.

 

[cubuffsdoug_rivals]

I thought the Celtics switched it up and made a big effort to get at the rim last night. 50% of the Celtics three attempts in these two games were wide open, meaning no one within 6 feet of the shooter. They have to take those. Luckily they are just missing.

The Celtics' coach seems arrogant when asked if he would continue to shoot 3s even though Boston is struggling. Never say never. You are down 0-2; what worked for you in the past isn't now. A good coach would at least be open to other options to jump-start his team to get back into the series. Also, a missed stat is that the Knicks and Celtics are 6th and 7th in 3pt attempts for the year. The difference is that the Knicks are 3rd in percentages, while the Celtics are 12th overall. Some credit has to go to the Knicks' defense. And as much as everyone is saying, the Celtics have had two poor games, and so have the Knicks. The Knicks' offense is one of the most efficient in the league. It can't all be the Celtics having excuses.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Another thing I think is going unnoticed with the Knicks and the pacers is how they rest their closers until like midway through the 4th quarter. Donavan could barely move in crunch time. Tatum and Brown had no legs in the 4th and could not hit jumpers. Haliburton was on the bench sipping juice with a heating pad on his back every time the camera showed the pacers bench while donavan Mitchell was dunking all over the pacers scoring 48. Then I'm crunch time haliburton was fresh Mitchell was laboring up and down the court. Couldn't even box out his man and allowed a crucial put back off a missed free throw and got his body folded while getting dunked on in the process. Knicks rested brunson and Towns in the 4th while mikal bridges brought them back. Also, intentionally fouling Mitchell Robinson when they were t even in the bonus. Then they foul again to get in the bonus and the Knicks sub out Robinson so they put themselves in the bonus for nothing.. Celtics and cavs have been out coaches so far even cavs have the coach of the year. Less is on him because he's missing more than half his starters. The Celtics and mazzula have no excuses. Even without porzingas they should be able to win when up by 20...

 

[cm_13]

Mitch was a big part of making Tatum uncomfortable on the Celtics’ last play, slowing him down, forcing him to his left and then out of the lane, and causing that highly-contested fade away, with Bridges and Anunoby then stuffing it. So good.

Being able to put Robinson, Bridges and OG on the floor when you need one stop at the end of a game really is such an advantage in those situations.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Another thing I think is going unnoticed with the Knicks and the pacers is how they rest their closers until like midway through the 4th quarter. Donavan could barely move in crunch time. Tatum and Brown had no legs in the 4th and could not hit jumpers. Haliburton was on the bench sipping juice with a heating pad on his back every time the camera showed the pacers bench while donavan Mitchell was dunking all over the pacers scoring 48. Then I'm crunch time haliburton was fresh Mitchell was laboring up and down the court. Couldn't even box out his man and allowed a crucial put back off a missed free throw and got his body folded while getting dunked on in the process. Knicks rested brunson and Towns in the 4th while mikal bridges brought them back. Also, intentionally fouling Mitchell Robinson when they were t even in the bonus. Then they foul again to get in the bonus and the Knicks sub out Robinson so they put themselves in the bonus for nothing.. Celtics and cavs have been out coaches so far even cavs have the coach of the year. Less is on him because he's missing more than half his starters. The Celtics and mazzula have no excuses. Even without porzingas they should be able to win when up by 20...

Even NBA players' gas tank can go to E. I have been a HUGE believer in this concept with RU. The "these guys are 18 years old" crowd fails to acknowledge this.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

The Celtics' coach seems arrogant when asked if he would continue to shoot 3s even though Boston is struggling. Never say never. You are down 0-2; what worked for you in the past isn't now. A good coach would at least be open to other options to jump-start his team to get back into the series. Also, a missed stat is that the Knicks and Celtics are 6th and 7th in 3pt attempts for the year. The difference is that the Knicks are 3rd in percentages, while the Celtics are 12th overall. Some credit has to go to the Knicks' defense. And as much as everyone is saying, the Celtics have had two poor games, and so have the Knicks. The Knicks' offense is one of the most efficient in the league. It can't all be the Celtics having excuses.

In the playoffs, you need a plan B. Mazzula's Mathball strategy has worked for the most part in the last 2 seasons, but you have to know when to pivot.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In the playoffs, you need a plan B. Mazzula's Mathball strategy has worked for the most part in the last 2 seasons, but you have to know when to pivot.

Wait. You are going to let 2 games out of the last 180 (last 2 years) dictate what you are going to do

 

[seansherm]

The Celtics' coach seems arrogant when asked if he would continue to shoot 3s even though Boston is struggling. Never say never. You are down 0-2; what worked for you in the past isn't now. A good coach would at least be open to other options to jump-start his team to get back into the series. Also, a missed stat is that the Knicks and Celtics are 6th and 7th in 3pt attempts for the year. The difference is that the Knicks are 3rd in percentages, while the Celtics are 12th overall. Some credit has to go to the Knicks' defense. And as much as everyone is saying, the Celtics have had two poor games, and so have the Knicks. The Knicks' offense is one of the most efficient in the league. It can't all be the Celtics having excuses.

No doubt

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[rufeelinit]

Mitch and OG played that Horford pick perfectly at the top, and then through the paint with OG staying w Tatum and Bridges joining while Mitch stayed with Al. Really think Tatum thought Horford's roll to the basket wouldn't be covered.

I did not catch it in the first watch but those Horford picks/screens or whatever you want to call were blatantly illegal. He is moving his feet like an offensive lineman and blocking defenders with Tatum being RB behind him

From a bigger picture perspective give the Knicks their props and the Celts their criticism but this series is still very much in play. Boston has had the better of the play for the majority of both games but has cratered at the end of both games. I think both teams can play better but Boston has the higher ceiling

The key maybe whether Porzingis can make a bigger contribution.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I did not catch it in the first watch but those Horford picks/screens or whatever you want to call were blatantly illegal. He is moving his feet like an offensive lineman and blocking defenders with Tatum being RB behind him

From a bigger picture perspective give the Knicks their props and the Celts their criticism but this series is still very much in play. Boston has had the better of the play for the majority of both games but has cratered at the end of both games. I think both teams can play better but Boston has the higher ceiling

The key maybe whether Porzingis can make a bigger contribution.

another NBA turnoff is that moving screens are OK

 

[toby83]

another NBA turnoff is that moving screens are OK

They perfected the hands up "I'm not setting a pick I'm just trying to move through this space here" which just happens to be in front of the ball handler, like a fullback

 

[seansherm]

I did not catch it in the first watch but those Horford picks/screens or whatever you want to call were blatantly illegal. He is moving his feet like an offensive lineman and blocking defenders with Tatum being RB behind him

From a bigger picture perspective give the Knicks their props and the Celts their criticism but this series is still very much in play. Boston has had the better of the play for the majority of both games but has cratered at the end of both games. I think both teams can play better but Boston has the higher ceiling

The key maybe whether Porzingis can make a bigger contribution.

Yup, they let him basically set an edge on those. Made the way the played it even more impressive.

Neither team has played it's best yet, next game is key, really think the Knicks need to get up 3-0

 

[RUInsanityToo]

another NBA turnoff is that moving screens are OK

On this I agree with you. Note that they are still illegal - but just not called by the refs.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Those screens were going on for both sides. But yes, Horford was screening and moving all over the place.

 

[nutfromSEC117]

For the confident Knicks fan

Celtics championship run last year

8 seed heat without injured Jimmy Butler

Cavs without D Mitchell after game 1 due to injury

Pacers without Halliburton who missed games 3-4 with hamstring injury. Pacers survived vs injury depleted Knicks in round 2. Pacers blew games 1 and 2 on top of Halliburton injury

Vs 5 seed mavs in finals , Doncic could score but couldn’t guard Rutgersal because his chubby *** was out of gas after grueling playoff run

 

[anon_xekqhstck0ygt]

One constant with the NBA is how bad the officials are

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

3pt shooting had nothing to do with CLEV-IND

Indiana with 4 OREB out of 42 chances....WTF
Cleveland got 18 out of 51

2nd observation......Indiana played 14 players....what?!!!!. When did rosters go up from 12? Why isn't Ron Harper, Jr in the NBA? Or Oskar Palmquist if there are so many on a roster.

 

[anon_xekqhstck0ygt]

3pt shooting had nothing to do with CLEV-IND

Indiana with 4 OREB out of 42 chances....WTF
Cleveland got 18 out of 51

2nd observation......Indiana played 14 players....what?!!!!. When did rosters go up from 12? Why isn't Ron Harper, Jr in the NBA? Or Oskar Palmquist if there are so many on a roster.

Halibuton 4 points I believe. He had his moment. Cavs will win the next 3. Indiana was fouling all over the place that’s why they played so many guys. The strategy was be as physical as possible

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

Yup, they let him basically set an edge on those. Made the way the played it even more impressive.

Neither team has played it's best yet, next game is key, really think the Knicks need to get up 3-0

I expect Boston to win today and the Knicks take the next one. Today is do or die for the Celtics. I still think the Knicks take if they are up 3-1 mid-week.

 

[RUJMM78]

I expect Boston to win today and the Knicks take the next one. Today is do or die for the Celtics. I still think the Knicks take if they are up 3-1 mid-week.

Boston destroyed the Knicks by getting a 20 point lead in the first half and maintained that lead for the rest of the game.Home court advantage means nothing in this matchup.Boston hit their 3 pointers and the Knicks shot bricks for most of the game. I can see a 7 game series with Boston winning.

 

[rufeelinit]

Boston destroyed the Knicks by getting a 20 point lead in the first half and maintained that lead for the rest of the game.Home court advantage means nothing in this matchup.Boston hit their 3 pointers and the Knicks shot bricks for most of the game. I can see a 7 game series with Boston winning.

Awful Knick performance pretty much from the jump. Game was essentially done at halftime even considering what transpired in games 1 and 2. Celts brought it and the Knicks took it.

Now 1-3 at MSG in the playoffs. Monday is a must win for the Knicks to have a shot at winning the series.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Rainy day and I centered much of it around watching a good basketball game. But that game sucked. Boring as hell. Hope Minnesota-G.S. is better.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Knicks did better on the glass
Knicks got to the FT line

Boston was 20-40 from 3 (+16.8)
NYK were 5-20 from 3 (-6.5)

Tough to overcome 23 points.

Interesting that Boston won by 22.

Sorry, but in most games this is the story. Especially with the Celtics.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Rainy day and I centered much of it around watching a good basketball game. But that game sucked. Boring as hell. Hope Minnesota-G.S. is better.

Lol it was said that tickets were going as high as 150k. Talk about fomo, but I knew that would be a waste. Celtics aren't going to have 3 bad shooting days in a row. Jason Tatum isnt going to have 3 bad shooting nights in a row. Celtics back against the wall, if anyone bet on the Knicks, they're a true fan. Timberwolves, warriors was pretty good though.