It's the immortal Keanu Reeves. But now that you mention it, he may also be Tchaikovsky. The math works when you're immortal.
Article: Why Duke Will (Not) Win It All
- Thread starter JasonSarnosky
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It's the immortal Keanu Reeves. But now that you mention it, he may also be Tchaikovsky. The math works when you're immortal.
Because they are all about as likely as "Kentucky not having any shooters".. which seems to be the weakness everyone has ran with.
In actuality.. Kentucky will shoot decently enough.. Frank will be a serviceable point guard. Giles will be 90-95% and Tatum will probably just shoot just a little too much for such a talented team.
But when you're talking the potential of two teams becoming Elite, even the smallest deficiency can throw that off. If Middle Tennessee State has a SG-in-a-PG's body? No big deal. But this is Duke and Kentucky with tons of talent. Whoevers ship cracks first goes down..
In actuality.. Kentucky will shoot decently enough.. Frank will be a serviceable point guard. Giles will be 90-95% and Tatum will probably just shoot just a little too much for such a talented team.
But when you're talking the potential of two teams becoming Elite, even the smallest deficiency can throw that off. If Middle Tennessee State has a SG-in-a-PG's body? No big deal. But this is Duke and Kentucky with tons of talent. Whoevers ship cracks first goes down..
When you're talking about NBA Talent-laden teams and how they stack up, you're going to have to dig deep to find weaknesses. Duke and Kentucky won't have many weaknesses next year and they won't have many question marks. But those are them, however minuscule and unlikely they may be.
Duke struggled with pressure at times last year. Their best ball handler left and the replacement is more of a combo.
We don't know what Giles will do. But he is recovering from injury.
Tatum has ball-hogged whenever we've seen him in All Star games. He has done so to a comical degree. Maybe that doesn't carry over to the season, but it's fun to joke about.
This is a UK board, btw.
Because he's not a true point and he's a freshman on top of it, Giles has two bad knees, and Tatum is a ball hog.
Easiest question of the day.
True but they return a 2nd team All American so that makes up for that. There teams aren't the same top to bottom but both have elite talent. Of course opposing fans won't agree like Duke fans didn't agree about that UK team because that's what bias fans do. Each fan base will think their team is better and try to come up with a reason that they feel is why their team is better. To get the most honest opinion is to ask a non fan of either team who also doesn't dislike either team
Ulis was good but FR Ulis wasn't soph Ulis. And Andrew was OK but not close to a All American talent
Ulis was good but FR Ulis wasn't soph Ulis. And Andrew was OK but not close to a All American talent
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You're right. Freshman Ulis was more of a pure point guard where sophomore Ulis was more of a scoring PG. Duke has no PGs. Period.
You're right. Freshman Ulis was more of a pure point guard where sophomore Ulis was more of a scoring PG. Duke has no PGs. Period.
Douche will be good - but the questions - - true point guard? no. Will the bigs even be healthy much less stay healthy? I have yet to see any sign that Jefferson is recovered much less Giles. If not - I am doubting Jeter and Bolden can hold things down without a great deal of help (kind of like Plumlee got a ton of help with his brand of extremely physical rebounding - but that said neither Jeter or Bolden carry the physicality to do that). Duke has a ton of 3 point shooting as a possibility - so they may employ the Golden State Warriors type offense. What I love about UK is 1. The guards - if the freshmen adjust quickly - I don't see hardly anyone who is quick enough to contain FOX or athletic enough to contain MONK (certainly not Grayson Allen). BRISCOE will be a bully. 2. The wings - I think the speed of the guard play will really enhance the wings availability. 3. Bigs - personally I think we are loaded. Some development needs to have taken place - but size is not an issue. I love that Cal emphasizes defense. As one poster pointed out earlier - we had to so rely on the guards last season we were almost a handicapped team, both on offense and defense. Front court struggled to score, rebound (how many offensive rebounds were given up?!?) and defend. This season I think we will be far more balanced.
Lastly - personal pet peeve. These Douche posters and fake UNC posters etc. are the most insufferable passive aggressive bunch. Is there someplace else besides a UK board that would be more appreciative of the impactful "wisdom" you seem to need to express? Have you been asked to leave your own boards? Is someone paying you to impose yourselves on us? Please, feel no need to bring your opinions here
Lastly - personal pet peeve. These Douche posters and fake UNC posters etc. are the most insufferable passive aggressive bunch. Is there someplace else besides a UK board that would be more appreciative of the impactful "wisdom" you seem to need to express? Have you been asked to leave your own boards? Is someone paying you to impose yourselves on us? Please, feel no need to bring your opinions here
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Duke would sell Giles to have anything close to a Ulis. Let's make that clear. Thats the best player you could possibly have as a PG.. Dude was rocking a 10:1 assist to TO ratio over like 15 games..
Teams who win national titles. Have a true point guard. Duke doesn't have a true point guard dumb dumb. But nice try. Teams don't win national titles without a true point guard. In '09 and '14 Duke had a true point guard. I don't understand why that's so hard for you to grasp. Regardless of how easy a road the committee gives you. Like in '09 and '14. And regardless of how much of a favorable whistle the refs give you. Like in '14. Refs gave you Wisconsin as the opponent by screwing us. And the refs gave Duke the title game. I'll post a video of all the terrible calls down the stretch of that game if you don't believe the refs gave you the '15 title. Regardless of all these favorable factors that will go in Duke's favor no matter what. You can't win it all without a true point guard. A player like DeAaron Fox would eat Duke alive on defense and offense.
That's ******* hysterical. Yeah... the two of them are doppelgängers.
The out of bounds involving Winslow was the only call needed To note.
Duke won it in 2010 with Scheyer playing PG. He was not a true PG.
Was that because K knows how to mold guys into serviceable points, even if they are not natural to that position?
Is it because of their system? Is it less reliant on the point position than most?
Was it just that all the other teams competing for the title in 2010 were flawed as well?
Was it just Duke managed to get hot and won six in a row?
I'm not sure.
If K wins the title again with a makeshift PG, then color me impressed and I have to give him and his system some major props.
Duke caught fire in '10. Sheyer was not a point guard but he played with extremely high IQ and didn't make many mistakes. He was also capable of playing point which you've got to be to begin with.
Duke recieved a cake walk in that tournmant and had a good enoughh team to win with that bracket. Even though they weren't dominant they had key players who could score in several ways.
correct with out a very quick and smart pg that plays good defense some team that has that will take it.
Can we expect the same out of Allen? Can he play the Scheyer role? He played some at the point last year as Thornton was getting acclimated to the college game, so it's not like he hasn't played that role.
Also, doesn't Duke always get a cakewalk? This year will be no different.
Let's just hope that history doesn't repeat itself in this case.
Here's my good-bad-expected for both teams
Duke
GOOD
Frank dominates at point
Allen becomes a shutdown defender
Matt becomes QCook
Luke shoots above 45%
Tatum dominates on both ends
Harry's 100%
Chase improves into a stud
UK
Fox becomes john wall 2.0
Monk shoots 40%
Briscoe shoots 30%
Gabe becomes a 3
Bam can play center
Winyards ready
Skj is lyes 2.0
BAD
Duke
Frank is a bust while DT dominates in practice at a star school
Grayson gets injured
Luke gets worse
Matt still thinks he's a star
Tatum hogs the ball
Harry's only 50%
Amile playing center makes him sophomore Milly
Chase doesn't gain a ounce
UK
Fox is horrible
Monk shoots under 30% and can't defend
Briscoe forced to run point can't handle all the responsibilitys and digresses on D and as a driver
Gabe is a 4
Skj isn't ready
Winyard is again on the bench all year
Bam can't play 4
Expected
Duke
PG:Frank is solid but dukes best perimeter defender with a stat line of around 9 4 and 2
SG: allen gets better on D and imrobes his overall game and can run point
Matt is a 3&d guy
Luke shoots 40%
SF: tatum takes a lot of shoots but plays good d and passes well (watch the u19 games the guys a beast and not a shabby passer)
PF: harry is 90%
C: Milly is a great senior bolden us a 1&d chase improves
Uk
PG: fox scores well with terrible shoot numbers
He runs point great but gas a ton of to's
SG: mink dominates at times but is still a streaky shooter
Briscoe scores well is shutdown on d and shoots 25% from 3
SF: gabe can't play 3 Willis shoots 45% though
PF: bam owns it playing 35 mins and averring a double double skj barley plays
C humpries gets the mins and improves greatly (wasn't that bad ).tai plays humpries like rile were he can score 10 and 10 and the not even play , bam plays here but isn't great
*open to options *
Duke
GOOD
Frank dominates at point
Allen becomes a shutdown defender
Matt becomes QCook
Luke shoots above 45%
Tatum dominates on both ends
Harry's 100%
Chase improves into a stud
UK
Fox becomes john wall 2.0
Monk shoots 40%
Briscoe shoots 30%
Gabe becomes a 3
Bam can play center
Winyards ready
Skj is lyes 2.0
BAD
Duke
Frank is a bust while DT dominates in practice at a star school
Grayson gets injured
Luke gets worse
Matt still thinks he's a star
Tatum hogs the ball
Harry's only 50%
Amile playing center makes him sophomore Milly
Chase doesn't gain a ounce
UK
Fox is horrible
Monk shoots under 30% and can't defend
Briscoe forced to run point can't handle all the responsibilitys and digresses on D and as a driver
Gabe is a 4
Skj isn't ready
Winyard is again on the bench all year
Bam can't play 4
Expected
Duke
PG:Frank is solid but dukes best perimeter defender with a stat line of around 9 4 and 2
SG: allen gets better on D and imrobes his overall game and can run point
Matt is a 3&d guy
Luke shoots 40%
SF: tatum takes a lot of shoots but plays good d and passes well (watch the u19 games the guys a beast and not a shabby passer)
PF: harry is 90%
C: Milly is a great senior bolden us a 1&d chase improves
Uk
PG: fox scores well with terrible shoot numbers
He runs point great but gas a ton of to's
SG: mink dominates at times but is still a streaky shooter
Briscoe scores well is shutdown on d and shoots 25% from 3
SF: gabe can't play 3 Willis shoots 45% though
PF: bam owns it playing 35 mins and averring a double double skj barley plays
C humpries gets the mins and improves greatly (wasn't that bad ).tai plays humpries like rile were he can score 10 and 10 and the not even play , bam plays here but isn't great
*open to options *
Scheyer grew up with the ball in his hands. He was a facilitator along with being a scorer in high school. Some people thought he was going to be the next Pistol Pete in high school.
Frank is a scorer. Going to be hard to get him to change that mindset. I see a lot of stagnant offense and hero ball from Duke next year.
Frank is a scorer. Going to be hard to get him to change that mindset. I see a lot of stagnant offense and hero ball from Duke next year.
I think we've heard all of this before though. Too much this, chemistry issues that, someone's not gonna want to buy in and share the ball etc.
All great teams had something that could be picked apart. Duke will ride number 1 most of the year. It doesn't take a great point guard to win it with a great team in college. It just takes a capable player who plays within himself and doesn't hurt the guys around him.
We'll see what kind of road they get and how our young guys come along. People can believe as they want, but with the NCAA out to provide Duke with the easiest way possible, I'm always concerned when they have a talented team on top of it.
Thornton had the worst turnover rate out of all of Duke's guards last year. Allen had the highest assist rate.
Thornton was a nifty ball handler but often caused more harm than good with his dribble.
I disagree with some of your takes, especially on UK.
PG- Fox probably struggles early, turns it over a lot, but will be very steady by March, like Cal's previous Freshmen PGs. Briscoe will help to ease the transition by handling the point at times and providing experience and leadership.
SG- I agree on Monk. Also have a Senior Hawkins, who should contribute.
SF- Briscoe plays there again. Improves his shooting (can't get any worse). Gabriel will be fine defensively at the 3. He will struggle some at the offensive end.
PF- Willis plays a stretch 4. He creates mismatches on the offensive end and stretches the defense, but he has to improve his defense and rebounding. He is a Senior and as long as he doesn't cost us points, he will play a lot. Gabriel and SKJ spend time here as well. We have lots of versatility at the 4.
C- Bam is reportedly 6'10, 260+ now, I think he can handle the 5 defensively and offensively will use his athleticism to create matchup problems and will also develop a post up game. He is bigger (weight wise) and probably stronger than most 5 men we have had under Cal. Humphries will back up Bam at the 5, and will play limited minutes most games, except when there is foul trouble. I don't expect much from Wynyard. He is not likely to be a rotation player.
Just my take.
Every PG Cal has had turns it over a lot early in the season, probably because he tells his players he doesn't mind turnovers if they come in the flow of the offense and you are being aggressive.
I guess I shouldn't have said "every". Ulis has been solid in the TO department from day 1.
I guess I shouldn't have said "every". Ulis has been solid in the TO department from day 1.
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Duke can have the #1 spot. This UK team will take some tumbles early on, and I'd prefer them to remain leveled early in the season.
That said, UK actually represents the type of team that could take down Duke when it matters most. Elite defenders at four positions, possibly five. Would be an epic tournament game.
That said, UK actually represents the type of team that could take down Duke when it matters most. Elite defenders at four positions, possibly five. Would be an epic tournament game.
Everyone is all about Duke next season but really K hasn't done anything with bigs/post players in 15 years. They have no pg and I bet if they are missing the 3's they will lose a game to a middle of the pack team in the ACC.
They are top 5 good but they are not the team to beat.
They are top 5 good but they are not the team to beat.
It's comedy when people make up things about something that happened from a post they read. I'm sorry since this is hard for you to believe being a duke fan and all. But I guess you're right if Giles doesn't want to be in college for 4 years he may choose to go play overseas if that's what he wants. But if you seriously think that kid is going to come back from 2 major knee injuries in back to back season then you're crazy. No way in hell is he OAD after those injuries. No way in hell does he ever become a contributor in the NBA. He is not the same player he was pre-back to back major knee injuries. I have no idea why that's so hard formyounto understand but it's the truth. The odds are very much so against him to recover from it. Knee injuries ruined Derrick rose. The only success story I can think of off the top of my head after serious knee injuries is shaun Livingston but he's nowhere near the same player he was supposed to be. And if giles has another you can almost consider his overseas and playing career altogether over no one is going to pay someone with so many health concerns in the NBA at that point. Regardless if he does have another or not though he will never been the player he once was, he'll never regain all of his athleticism after these injuries. So get over it. Gotta wonder what the statistics are on players and how much the skills they possessed deteriated after having 2 major knee injuries/procedures. Has to be in the 95-99% range as far as the players never being the same again. Just ask Penny Hardaway.
I ALMOST spilled my coffee after seeing this post of someone expecting a player to be an NBA talent after back to back major knee injuries. Says a lot about your intelligence. I'm guessing you're a former UNC Men's BB player within the last 25 years due to the lack of education and intelligence you've displayed? Don't you have some should've been vacated championships that you should be celebrating for getting to keep even though there's an asterisk next to the sh** stained banners since the NCAA covered UNC****'s *** calling it 'not a men's bb issue'? Lol. Like 3 or 4 of them should've been vacated and many many wins. Not to mention death penalty should've been handed down since, ya know, UNC has played with ineligible players for the last 20 years ever since dean smith was at the helm and all. I'm absolutely convinced you're a former UNC men's player within the last 25 years due to the lack of education, gotta be. Keep it up 'scholar'. This is just as golden as all the UNC players Roy Williams has put in the NBA All Star Game. Very happy that I was able to educate you on the severity of major knee injuries. Especially 2 of them. Maybe you'll think twice before posting such nonsense next time. Unless you're a former UNC men's player, which I'm almost certain of at this point, then there's pretty much no hope as far as the nonsense you're inevitably going to post goes. Blame the University and its win at all costs approach. Not yourself. Not your fault you're dumb.
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The difference between Jon Scheyer and Frank is glaringly obvious but I haven't seen it mentioned. Scheyer was a senior. Frank a freshman. Scheyer had already played 3 years for K and was smart enough to be an extension of K on the court. Frank will not have that luxury.
Allen is a scorer and a dam good one at that. Taking him out of that role would hurt duke more, in my opinion, than rolling with Frank from the get go and let him use the season to get acclimated to PG duties. But again, JMO.
The best lineup for Duke will probably be a 3 guard lineup of Allen/Jackson/Jones, with those guys playing pg by committee.
Tatum as a stretch 4, and Giles at the 5.
There will certainly be lineups with Jefferson beside Giles, or Bolden beside Giles. They will probably start the season that way, and may run with that as a starting unit all year.
But for K to coach the way he wants to coach, Allen/Jackson/Jones/Tatum/Giles will be the group he rides.
How will the players buy into that? Probably fine by March.
How do we match up with that lineup? Perfectly. Our three guards are all good defenders. Wenyen on Tatum. Bam on Giles.
Would be a fun game if it ever happens.
That was a classic, is that all you got son! No way are you a cat fan, you are a Louisville fan, your trash is making Kentucky fans look bad. Guess you are a expert on Acl injurys, you are a joke ,choke on it pal!!
I was responding to another poster. Shouldn't have to explain that since I quoted him.
Duke has had a top 10 offense per Kenpom every year since 2007. I don't think having a true point guard will matter at all for this Duke team. We have enough shooters to spread the floor and we have some really good offensive rebounder as well so I think it would be a shock if Duke does not have a top ten offense.
I do think the question about this team is defense. I think we have a chance to be really good because of our shot blocking/rebounding potential and having a rs senior like Jefferson to act as the defensive leader is really huge but it's far from a guarantee that our defense will be elite.
In comparing Duke v UK right now on paper, I think there is a pretty decent gap between the two teams.
I do think the question about this team is defense. I think we have a chance to be really good because of our shot blocking/rebounding potential and having a rs senior like Jefferson to act as the defensive leader is really huge but it's far from a guarantee that our defense will be elite.
In comparing Duke v UK right now on paper, I think there is a pretty decent gap between the two teams.
Pretty decent gap? In what way? You have a little more experience and our classes were about the same. Doesn't sound like a decent gap to me.