I came up with Kermit the Frog. He used to just be Billy.
Article: Why Duke Will (Not) Win It All
- Thread starter JasonSarnosky
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I came up with Kermit the Frog. He used to just be Billy.
Did you have this issue when those same people ranked UK #1 when they went two deep at every position the season before last? When teams are this stacked they should be the favorites. Since the OAD era only Duke and UK has been this deep in the preseason IMO. The funny part is when the UK KAT started out Dook fans were saying exactly what some fans on here are saying now "only one ball, I'm not convinced, they don't have this or that" while UK fans said "Cal will get them to share, we are deep and will destroy people"
Now the shoe is on the other foot and some Duke fans are being hypocrites saying what UK fans were saying while some UK fans are also being hypocrites saying the opposite. In both cases each team has a over abundance of talent and a chance to go undefeated (not likely once again but wouldn't surprise me just like two years ago due to the elite talent and elite coaching). It will be much harder for Duke though due to playing in a much stronger conference and playing UNC twice (not saying UNC is elite but when you play you're rival at their place anything can happen)
Now the shoe is on the other foot and some Duke fans are being hypocrites saying what UK fans were saying while some UK fans are also being hypocrites saying the opposite. In both cases each team has a over abundance of talent and a chance to go undefeated (not likely once again but wouldn't surprise me just like two years ago due to the elite talent and elite coaching). It will be much harder for Duke though due to playing in a much stronger conference and playing UNC twice (not saying UNC is elite but when you play you're rival at their place anything can happen)
Calipari will adjust lineups, and when there's an exuberant amount of talent, he ran the platoon. Coach K runs with the same 7-6 man rotations.
Calipari recruits two-way players. He might have a guy like WCS who can rim protect, and then a guy like Lyles who can make shots all over the court. Coach K recruits for offense, and his players don't compliment each other nearly as well as Cal's.
Or maybe, it's that we've seen this recruiting play out much more than Duke fans have.. to have a wealth of riches AND hold overs with lots of talent.
Calipari recruits two-way players. He might have a guy like WCS who can rim protect, and then a guy like Lyles who can make shots all over the court. Coach K recruits for offense, and his players don't compliment each other nearly as well as Cal's.
Or maybe, it's that we've seen this recruiting play out much more than Duke fans have.. to have a wealth of riches AND hold overs with lots of talent.
My bad "Gabe" us the best defender I was think post vs perimeter I didn't account the fact he can guard 5 positions he's not a 3 though just a terrible shooter at this point with no ability to drive against defense IMO as of now dukes clear #1 while Kentucky s just top 5 if y'all got bolden that would be a different story
Gotcha. And I'm not declaring him the best. I have no idea. But the articles I've read on him reminds me of an MKG-type. With defense, effort is half the battle, and he relishes the opportunity to shut a player down. And why do I love that? Because for every 50 players who look to score, you have 1 guy with a mentality like "Gabe" (Thanks for starting the trend, make sure to give me all credit).
But, I just don't see Duke being a "clear" #1 while Kentucky is "just top5".. take away early season losses.. would you want to bet against Cal/Kentucky/1AD in March? I wouldn't.
This is the type of class that gets will walk Cal to a Final 4, and I've NEVER said that about any class. We cleared out some lackluster players and added them with high energy studs (my favorite[no homo]).. that's a double-win in my book. Their effort will overcome a good portion of whatever weaknesses they have.. that's how you make deep runs.
But, I just don't see Duke being a "clear" #1 while Kentucky is "just top5".. take away early season losses.. would you want to bet against Cal/Kentucky/1AD in March? I wouldn't.
This is the type of class that gets will walk Cal to a Final 4, and I've NEVER said that about any class. We cleared out some lackluster players and added them with high energy studs (my favorite[no homo]).. that's a double-win in my book. Their effort will overcome a good portion of whatever weaknesses they have.. that's how you make deep runs.
They will say Kentucky is young, shooting is a question mark, and we may not have a go-to post presence.
UK returned a starting pg who led them to the Title game, and brought in Tyler Ulis to back him up.
Big difference between that and losing Thornton while replacing him with a combo guard.
Duke will be good and has a lot a pieces. But don't kid yourself that they are 2015 UK good.
Let's cane
Let's cancel the 2016-2017 season. That way Duke is champion by default.
i don't put much stock in pre-season predictions....gotta see these high school "kids" play against other college players.....most of them are just whupping up on little high school kids......having talent is one thing.....getting that talent to gel as a TEAM is a different story....
Duke was pre-season 9 in 2009 and 6 in 2014.......we ended well....
Duke was pre-season 9 in 2009 and 6 in 2014.......we ended well....
I think we match up pretty well with Duke.
I like our guards slightly better. I would rather have two PGs and play one on the wing, than have three wings and try to make one of them a PG.
I like their wings better. They have shooters and scorers galore. Tatum is really talented.
I like Bam better than any of their big men, including Giles (post injury). I think they have slightly better depth inside, but it's not an overwhelming difference.
It will be interesting to watch how each team develops. Both teams have the talent to win a title.
I like our guards slightly better. I would rather have two PGs and play one on the wing, than have three wings and try to make one of them a PG.
I like their wings better. They have shooters and scorers galore. Tatum is really talented.
I like Bam better than any of their big men, including Giles (post injury). I think they have slightly better depth inside, but it's not an overwhelming difference.
It will be interesting to watch how each team develops. Both teams have the talent to win a title.
Article could have been answered in one single picture.
Who is sitting between Gabriel and Bam? And to the left of Floreal? Also, where is Hawkins? Rumor has it Bolden had to hide in the kitchen because his de-committal hasn't been announced yet.
Kentucky and the actual #1 ranked recruiting class (for some reason that article didn't do its homework and proclaimed Duke to have the #1 incoming class) is the reason Duke isn't going to win it all. Duke may have to platoon. Or upset some players. And I don't think Duke will handle the platoon situation near as well as we did. That and the fact. So many people act is if Harry Giles is going to come in and light the world on fire. Take my word. Harry Giles will be a major disappointment for Duke. He's never going to play a minute in the NBA. And he's going to become a 4 year player at Duke unless he has another knee injury at that point his career is probably over. Players don't just have 2 major knee injuries in back to back seasons and come back as the same player they were before. See Derrick rose? He is no way the same player he once was. He has lost so much athleticism from his knee injuries that it's honestly just sad at this point. Gotta feel for the one time MVP and the path he was going on. See how much less effective POY was after only one major Knee injury?
Harry Giles is not going to be an impact player. And Jayson Tatum is way too much of a ball hog. He will single handily destroy team chemistry. And they don't have a true point guard which is a must if you want to win a title. I just can't in any way imagine this Duke team winning it all as talented as they might be. They don't have the right pieces. They have a ball hog in Tatum. And a player who unfortunately had 2 major knee injuries that he will not come back the same from. Most don't after one major knee injury let alone 2. And as sad as it is for the young man. He's never going to be a star in college and will never touch an NBA court for a regular season game. On top of that they don't have anyone with the ability to run a team. That in itself will be the demise for Duke.
Harry Giles is not going to be an impact player. And Jayson Tatum is way too much of a ball hog. He will single handily destroy team chemistry. And they don't have a true point guard which is a must if you want to win a title. I just can't in any way imagine this Duke team winning it all as talented as they might be. They don't have the right pieces. They have a ball hog in Tatum. And a player who unfortunately had 2 major knee injuries that he will not come back the same from. Most don't after one major knee injury let alone 2. And as sad as it is for the young man. He's never going to be a star in college and will never touch an NBA court for a regular season game. On top of that they don't have anyone with the ability to run a team. That in itself will be the demise for Duke.
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That's a pretty bad article. What is straight hoops?
Tatum is not a great three point shooter, and he isn't ESPNs number one recruit.
Read like an article written by someone who checks box scores and the Internet, rather than who actually knows the players. I would wager you find similar signs of it in their other articles.
And yes, Duke is elite next year. That's just silly.
Tatum is not a great three point shooter, and he isn't ESPNs number one recruit.
Read like an article written by someone who checks box scores and the Internet, rather than who actually knows the players. I would wager you find similar signs of it in their other articles.
And yes, Duke is elite next year. That's just silly.
Depends on your definition of elite.
Personally, I don't think there are elite teams every year.
There weren't any in 2013 or 2016. Some other seasons are up for debate.
I'll grant you that Duke could be elite. We could be too. But neither team jumps off the page at me like the 2012 Cats, for instance.
Time will tell. If Harry Giles plays like a young Chris Webber, you might be able to overcome your other issues.
The 38-1 Kentucky didn't have a true 3 man, Harrison was not a point guard. That team did pretty well,just because Duke doesn't have a true pg ,doesn't mean that want be strong. Allen and Tatum both can beat their man off the dribble , plus look at all the 3 point snipers they have . Some of you guys need to realize , they will be REALLY GOOD THE TEAM O BEAT.
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I was laughing so hard I drop my coffee, are you serious man? Giles 4 year player, I am starting to believe you are not a Kentucky fan, your making them look bad.
I don't know...
So, that UK class brought in the top center, pf, and pg, and then a few others.
This Duke class brings in the top center, pf, and maybe the top sf, and then a few others.
That UK team returned some depth.
This Duke team returns more depth, including an All American candidate.
I just don't see what "issues" Duke is facing. Top recruits, inside scoring, outside scoring, rebounding, athleticism, great returning players, experienced title winners, McDonalds depth at every position, possibly the best coach in history... the only possible issue is lack of a traditional "I only pass and don't look to score" type of PG, but I'm not sure how important that actually is in a world where positions are rapidly falling out of favor and where some of the incoming guys are already friends and the returning guys have already talked about the chemistry the team has, and how already everyone is on the same page.
I think your recognition of elite is flawed.
You just proved the point. We brought in the top PG and you guys aren't. A good PG is still important in college. These guys aren't skilled pros yet.
Duke has a lot of talent, but its not the right combination of talent that will be needed to win it all next year. One thing to have great team chemistry in the summer, lets see if they have it when all games and shots count and have a direct impact on each of their futures. We've seen how selfish those players can be when there is no need to be.
I'd like to ask duke fan to name me a couple NCAA champions without a natural PG. They think it's not important, but please just name a couple who you think would qualify. Also, strange that dOOk fan would say that when they only win championships with the purest of pure point guards.
I think Duke's chances hinge on whether or not Jackson can develop into a reliable PG capable of running a team with that much talent.
I think Allen will bring the ball up to start off the year. Only logical choice I think.
You mean like Jon Scheyer, a life-long SG who transitioned to PG and won a national title in 2010, his only year playing point?
Nobody is saying it isn't important. That's a straw man. Most Duke fans DO think it is important, but also think that we likely will find a good option in either Grayson Allen or Frank Jackson, neither of whom are necessarily natural pass-first PGs, but out of both of them we assume someone will work.
Besides the PG issue, other issues for Duke (of course they are much better issues to have than not having loads of talent) are if Giles is 100% and lasts the season without getting re-injured, and if there are chemistry issues with so many players wanting the ball. I know Duke fans don't think it's as bad as we do, but Tatum is a ball hog and will have to get ok with taking fewer shots than he's accustomed to. All that aside, of course they will be one of, if not the favorite, but history is replete with teams that were expected to win it all and didn't. So many things have to work out for any team to win 6 in a row at the end.
LOL. Scheyer was not playing off the ball in high school. He was tall enough to be able to play SG in college.
Allen or Jackson won't be enough to win it all.
They are not 2015 TALENTED, but with their usual NCAA aid, and returning guys like Allen, Kennard, and Jefferson, they are every bit as dangerous.
people underestimate how much the NCAA aid helps a school with a talented roster. When you've only got 10 teams with a legit shot at a title, any help they receive from officiating and their tournament road can bolster the chances from luck to probable for a title game. It's tough but it's the league right now.
With what we know today, no way I slot them as being as dangerous as 2015 UK.
Now if Giles is all healed up and first team AA, Tatum becomes Grant Hill...ok.
I've got to see them. I think they will be good, but more along the lines of UNC last year. Where you will know all year that they are on the short list for the title, but you won't quite pencil them in.
But we'll see. Could be better than I think. And no doubt officiating and selection committee can help. Anything to get the rat another ring.
I would never expect you to agree. If you have no concern about your point guard position or your defensive potential, then you are a blind homer. Which you are.
Our 2012 team was not only uber talented, but the pieces all fit. I'm not sure that's the case with your team next year.
I also like our talent better. Because AD was healthy and I don't know if Giles will be.
Because MKG was all team and I don't know if Tatum will be.
Because you don't return anyone comparable to Terrence Jones.
If everything clicks for you, you may be elite. I certainly wouldn't say you can't be.
And you can define elite however you wish. But the ultimate test is what happens on the court.
Good luck, I guess.
That's really my only worry with Duke. Put those players and even the same degree of coaching on any other team with fair treatment and I'll take Kentucky all day long. They will continue to be weak defensively, have too many score-first players, and too many backlogged players in a system where Coach K has always run 6-7 guys max.
But that treament coupled with talent and great coaching? THAT will be tough to beat. You can give them 1-2 fewer losses right off the bat and a seed place higher..
i just don't see many holes in their roster unless Giles and Tatum are mediocre. People can hope Kennard isn't going to be a good shooter, but his stroke is there and now he gains experience. Allen will be a POY candidate day 1. They've got shooters all over the floor. with the NCAA aid, it's just clear cut to me that they are every bit as dangerous.
As for UK who knows. Young, athletic, not much shooting, and thin in the front court. Cal likes a 6 man roster so I'm only concerned with it if injuries play a part. UK is one player going down from a huge problem.
I'm sure I sound pessimistic but it's just how I see it. Maybe I'm just gearin up in case the worst happens. But some of our own don't seem to understand just how much it helps Duke to be an untouchable by the NCAA. That irritating "it always takes luck" crowd. You've got maybe a handful or two of teams who can actually win a championship. Bad call in their favor here, allowed flop there, a well rested road through the elite eight. Yea, this is huge for a team like Duke. That aid is very capable of making a championship probable for them(for certain teams) at some point past the sweet 16.
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The 2012 comparison is flawed like a straight rainbow.
There isn't one player Duke has or is brining in that can match AD and MKG.
I think Duke is dangerous but nowhere near unbeatable.
Bottom line, I think we will match up well with them defensively if we ever meet.
But I think there are a lot more question marks going into this season than some do.
Duke has a few chinks in the armor, but overall they have the best set of armor.
Ours is pretty good as well, but not without our own chinks.
Duke needs to find someone to run the point. K has turned wing scorers into successful points before (the aforementioned Scheyer and Grant Hill basically ran the point in 94). Duke needs to get and stay healthy. They have two big men coming off injury (Giles and Jefferson). We know how tough it can be to rehabilitate and then expect to play at an elite level after just a year, especially after an ACL.
UK needs to find inside scoring. One of the knock on UK is they lack a true back to the basket post player. Cal has proven he can turn face up guys into good post scorers before (AD, KAT), but the epic failure of Labissiere looms large in the short term memories of UK fans. Bam should be a big improvement, but need to develop some back to the basket post moves. Depth behind Bam is another issue. We are still not sure what Humphries and Wynyard will be able to give us. Shooting is another concern. Aside from Willis, UK has no proven perimeter shooters and none of the recruits coming in are considered sharpshooters.
Both teams could face chemistry issues, but both coaches are masterminds at dealing with those type of issues.
Both teams have other flaws as well, but those are the glaring ones.
None of these flaws have to be fatal. They can be remedied or at the very least hidden by all the other great characteristics.
Bottom line, both teams should be in the hunt for a title.
Ours is pretty good as well, but not without our own chinks.
Duke needs to find someone to run the point. K has turned wing scorers into successful points before (the aforementioned Scheyer and Grant Hill basically ran the point in 94). Duke needs to get and stay healthy. They have two big men coming off injury (Giles and Jefferson). We know how tough it can be to rehabilitate and then expect to play at an elite level after just a year, especially after an ACL.
UK needs to find inside scoring. One of the knock on UK is they lack a true back to the basket post player. Cal has proven he can turn face up guys into good post scorers before (AD, KAT), but the epic failure of Labissiere looms large in the short term memories of UK fans. Bam should be a big improvement, but need to develop some back to the basket post moves. Depth behind Bam is another issue. We are still not sure what Humphries and Wynyard will be able to give us. Shooting is another concern. Aside from Willis, UK has no proven perimeter shooters and none of the recruits coming in are considered sharpshooters.
Both teams could face chemistry issues, but both coaches are masterminds at dealing with those type of issues.
Both teams have other flaws as well, but those are the glaring ones.
None of these flaws have to be fatal. They can be remedied or at the very least hidden by all the other great characteristics.
Bottom line, both teams should be in the hunt for a title.
I don't think chemistry will break either team, but to clarify, Cal has proven to be the best at egos and chemistry. Coach K is still new to the One-And-Done era. Let's see if he can string together 7 straight classes with zero on or off-court issues. He DID still have issues with Sulaimon and Thornton.
Also, Kentucky's class fits well together. They covered every position, they don't have big log jams, and they don't have an entire class looking to score points. Duke doesn't have a guy like Gabriel who's vocal about his chance to defend the other team, or a facilitating guard like Fox who isn't a SG-in-a-PG type. These types of players will hold a team together. Will Tatum or Jackson?