The New Lounge

[KDSTONE]

I'm really not interested in seguing into a discussion of how UK deals with immigration issues.

I read somewhere recently that within a few years (if not already), Islam will be the most practiced religion in the world. Well over a billion people. If the worst of them were really indicative of all Muslims, they'd have taken over everything already. The truth is, most of them are peaceful, contributing members of society. I think there are several prominent examples who put Christians to shame for better emulating Christ.

Please stop. I don’t want you to lose whatever credibility you’re still clinging to. Let’s call it a night shall we. This thread needs you to at least appear halfway sane.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

How did they take over the Middle East and North Africa? While members of other groups previously in those regions is getting awfully close to well. Zero. Spontaneous enlightenment? You’re embarrassing yourself.

I'm not worried and I'm not embarrassed.

I made a remark one time that I apologized for to duke91. To dismiss my apology based on your own paranoia is very onbrand. My teachers were my heroes. I owe them everything, more than my doctors, more than anyone except for my kin and maybe my rabbi but it’s close. How dare you twist my posts around so you can play the victim card yet again.

Really not feeling like sharing or listening to anything personal or vulnerable with you any time soon.

 

[KDSTONE]

I'm not worried and I'm not embarrassed.



Really not feeling like sharing or listening to anything personal or vulnerable with you any time soon.

You suggested I had a long running history of denigrating teachers. 9 times out of 10 you said. I apologized for the only post that I can recall making that might be construed that way. Just a few days ago I believe. Several of my relatives were teachers, one in a day school, two in public. I’m not sure where this is coming from I spent years and years in school, other than doctors maybe I didn’t hold anyone in higher esteem than teachers.
But of course if a certain teacher starts saying bat **** crazy stuff I would make a mental note but not hold the profession at large responsible.

 

[dukesince91]

Yeah, this means nothing to me. I don't believe a word of it.

Now Datt, that’s not leading with love.

 

[KDSTONE]

I've been completely sincere. I'm not going to put much effort into convincing you.

You seem very different. I don't understand what you're getting at in most of your posts over the last week or so. Glad to hear you're okay.

You're coming at me over my job. It's not because you are so worried about anyone's taxes. It's because you are deliberately trying to antagonize me and make veiled threats. Do you know what my specific job is? Do you know when school starts in my district? Am I in a classroom? Am I in administration? Am I on a traditional school calendar? Am I at an in-person school? Have I retired? Am I still full time? Have I been taking any time off? You don't know any of those things, and not by accident. Whether I've retired already or not, no one here will know until years later. Why? Well, the kind of person who would make veiled threats and insinuations about my job like you just did might also be the kind of person who will look up information on the retirement ceremony and find a list of retirees, and then narrow it down until they find me. Paranoid? Okay. Something someone who would hint at doxxing me at work might do? Yeah, I think so.

I've been completely civil. I'm not going to change a thing about how I've been posting recently.

I advised you to “ keep it civil” and you interpret that as a hint at doxxing? Not a request for civility’s sake? You think I’m going to hire a goon to take out your kneecaps with a baseball bat?

“ Coming at you” over your job? You’ve frequently used your job over the years to assert moral privilege, to insult those who run small businesses, to convey the notion that you’re some sort of societal insider while the rest of us are hopeless Mayberry rubes because we’ve chosen different career paths. So if you don’t actually hold the job you’ve been pretending to in order to better preen from a more virtuous perch, I feel it’s relevant.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

You suggested I had a long running history of denigrating teachers. 9 times out of 10 you said. I apologized for the only post that I can recall making that might be construed that way. Just a few days ago I believe. Several of my relatives were teachers, one in a day school, two in public. I’m not sure where this is coming from I spent years and years in school, other than doctors maybe I didn’t hold anyone in higher esteem than teachers.
But of course if a certain teacher starts saying bat **** crazy stuff I would make a mental note but not hold the profession at large responsible.

I hope you don't have too much invested in my opinion here. I know you don't on any other topic.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I advised you to “ keep it civil” and you interpret that as a hint at doxxing? Not a request for civility’s sake? You think I’m going to hire a goon to take out your kneecaps with a baseball bat?

“ Coming at you” over your job? You’ve frequently used your job over the years to assert moral privilege, to insult those who run small businesses, to convey the notion that you’re some sort of societal insider while the rest of us are hopeless Mayberry rubes because we’ve chosen different career paths. So if you don’t actually hold the job you’ve been pretending to in order to better preen from a more virtuous perch, I feel it’s relevant.

"Moral privilege"? Never heard of it, but it's encouraging that you recognize any type of privilege.

Yeah, after questioning how I use my time at work and opining that NC residents may have concerns about their tax dollars, to tell me "I would advise from here on out, you try to keep this civil," sounds pretty menacing.

I've worked in public education my entire professional life. I'm a certified teacher. What my exact position is in public schools is not something I care to divulge, have ever divulged contemporaneously here, and will not, for reasons I've stated. Maybe I'm a year-round elementary school teacher who was, in fact, goofing off on the job like you said. Maybe I'm a principal who delegates from a desk and has a DevilsIllustrated tab open. Maybe classes don't start until next week. Maybe I'm recovering from surgery and laid up in bed for the next 2 weeks. Maybe I have a downtown support position with a flexible schedule. You don't know and you won't know.

Any time you want to talk about an actual issue, feel free to refocus.

 

[KDSTONE]

I’m surprised you’re not familiar with the concept of moral privilege for several reasons, not the least of which I defined it a month or two ago. When someone seeks to accrue benefits belonging to a certain group without actually being a full member of said group, one who garners the positive aspects of membership with none of the baggage. A Black person who white passes lecturing others about racism and white privilege might be an example.

 

[DuckDevil]

 

[Mac9192]

So no Muslims, period... with socialism [sic] being an additional objection. What was so convenient about my leaving out the socialist part before other than it being convenient for you to deflect with it?

I've been clear: that stance is bigoted according to every reasonable definition of bigotry; it is anti-American according to the US Constitution; it is anti-Christian according to the Bible.

What you haven't pushed back on is that your stance is anti-American or anti-Christian. You've only objected to your words being accurately labeled as bigotry.

Yes, no Muslims. I feel like I've been vewy, vewy clear with you Datt, so not sure why you keep asking me. You think you got one of your "Citizen Arrests" (Gotcha) moments. I know nothing about the other Muslims in office, but Ellison and Omar are useless. Yes, I know that is very common for most of DC. But when you take a Muslim and add in Socialists? Well, It's a No times two.

Maybe there's one out there, but I'm not seeing too good a track record for me to get behind a Muslim as a politician. Sorry, but not sorry.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I’m surprised you’re not familiar with the concept of moral privilege for several reasons, not the least of which I defined it a month or two ago. When someone seeks to accrue benefits belonging to a certain group without actually being a full member of said group, one who garners the positive aspects of membership with none of the baggage. A Black person who white passes lecturing others about racism and white privilege might be an example.

Ah. I don't remember your previously mentioning it. Your explanation redirects where I might have gone with sussing out its meaning. Thank you. Is it sort of like virtue signaling?

This seems related... while I'm obviously pretty tenacious in my support of transpeople, once their existence is 'safe,' I am open to exploring certain gray areas. There are legit concerns about women who went through male puberty playing women's sports. It's also fair for cis women to have reservations about recently transitioned women who had male privilege all their lives, like Caitlyn Jenner, who may then want to insert themselves into women's safe spaces too quickly, without having 'earned it,' however that may be defined.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Yes, no Muslims. I feel like I've been vewy, vewy clear with you Datt, so not sure why you keep asking me. You think you got one of your "Citizen Arrests" (Gotcha) moments. I know nothing about the other Muslims in office, but Ellison and Omar are useless. Yes, I know that is very common for most of DC. But when you take a Muslim and add in Socialists? Well, It's a No times two.

Maybe there's one out there, but I'm not seeing too good a track record for me to get behind a Muslim as a politician. Sorry, but not sorry.

Well, a couple times ago you tried to claim it was "convenient" for me to leave out the socialism [sic] part, so I wanted to distinguish between them.

Your stance is anti-American, anti-Christian, and bigoted. That's not my opinion. That assessment is in line with the dictionary, the Constitution, and the Bible, among other things.

 

[KDSTONE]

Ah. I don't remember your previously mentioning it. Your explanation redirects where I might have gone with sussing out its meaning. Thank you. Is it sort of like virtue signaling?

This seems related... while I'm obviously pretty tenacious in my support of transpeople, once their existence is 'safe,' I am open to exploring certain gray areas. There are legit concerns about women who went through male puberty playing women's sports. It's also fair for cis women to have reservations about recently transitioned women who had male privilege all their lives, like Caitlyn Jenner, who may then want to insert themselves into women's safe spaces too quickly, without having 'earned it,' however that may be defined.

Recent converts to Judaism or Islam who quickly take to lecturing others about anti semitism or Islamaphobia would seem to fit the bill as well.

 

[Mac9192]

Well, a couple times ago you tried to claim it was "convenient" for me to leave out the socialism [sic] part, so I wanted to distinguish between them.

Your stance is anti-American, anti-Christian, and bigoted. That's not my opinion. That assessment is in line with the dictionary, the Constitution, and the Bible, among other things.

I'm not against Muslims. It's just the way I feel when it comes to politics. It is proven right with the few we have in office. I know an argument can also be made that the bar in DC is very low, but just think we have to draw a line somewhere. David Duke may have had a 'right' to run for office years ago, but I don't think he should have been able to. Does that make me a bigot too?

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I'm not against Muslims. It's just the way I feel when it comes to politics. It is proven right with the few we have in office. I know an argument can also be made that the bar in DC is very low, but just think we have to draw a line somewhere. David Duke may have had a 'right' to run for office years ago, but that doesn't make it right either.

You can say you're not "against" them all you want. You are against them holding political office because of their religion. That is being against them. As I mentioned before, it's like saying you have no problem with X. Y, or Z group of people... as long as they know "their place."

You have explained yourself thoroughly and have said you are not sorry for it. Saying it again is not going to undo the fact that it is a bigoted, anti-American, anti-Christian stance. If you're unapologetic, accept the consequences.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Recent converts to Judaism or Islam who quickly take to lecturing others about anti semitism or Islamaphobia would seem to fit the bill as well.

Ah... there's a great line in Things Fall Apart, by Chinua Achebe, describing a recent convert to the new religion who seemed more fervent about Christianity than the missionary: "...the outsider who wept louder than the bereaved."

 

[Mac9192]

You can say you're not "against" them all you want. You are against them holding political office because of their religion. That is being against them. As I mentioned before, it's like saying you have no problem with X. Y, or Z group of people... as long as they know "their place."

You have explained yourself thoroughly and have said you are not sorry for it. Saying it again is not going to undo the fact that it is a bigoted, anti-American, anti-Christian stance. If you're unapologetic, accept the consequences.

I do. And I think my stance of being more than skeptical are correct.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I do. And I think my stance of being more than skeptical are correct.

Opinions are neither correct nor incorrect. Yours is factually bigoted, anti-American, and anti-Christian.

 

[Mac9192]

Opinions are neither correct nor incorrect. Yours is factually bigoted, anti-American, and anti-Christian.

It stops becoming opinion when it becomes true.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

It stops becoming opinion when it becomes true.

Still bigoted, anti-American, and anti-Christian.

 

[Mac9192]

Yes, Muslims have the right to run for office. I don't like the idea, but don't run around screaming it. I think we've gotten too soft with what we tolerate, and people like Mamdani, Omar, and Ellison? I feel they have an agenda that is un American. If that makes me bigoted, anti American, and anti Christian, then so be it.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Yes, Muslims have the right to run for office. I don't like the idea, but don't run around screaming it. I think we've gotten too soft with what we tolerate, and people like Mamdani, Omar, and Ellison? I feel they have an agenda that is un American. If that makes me bigoted, anti American, and anti Christian, then so be it.

We've gotten too... soft... with what we... tolerate... like Muslims.
That is indeed bigoted, anti-American, and anti-Christian.

 

[dukesince91]

We've gotten too... soft... with what we... tolerate... like Muslims.
That is indeed bigoted, anti-American, and anti-Christian.

As Christians, do you think we’re supposed to accept Islam?

 

[Mac9192]

As Christians, do you think we’re supposed to accept Islam?

Christians are supposed to accept Muslims, trans, whatever, without any complaints.

We are in the dunking booth, and everyone not a Christian is allowed to try to dunk us.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

As Christians, do you think we’re supposed to accept Islam?

We are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves with no exceptions.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Christians are supposed to accept Muslims, trans, whatever, without any complaints.

We are in the dunking booth, and everyone not a Christian is allowed to try to dunk us.

How does accepting others hurt Christians?

 

[Mac9192]

How does accepting others hurt Christians?

At what point have we accepted too much? Yes we are supposed to love everyone, but that doesn't mean we have to accept everything.

Define what you mean by accept.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

At what point have we accepted too much? Yes we are supposed to love everyone, but that doesn't mean we have to accept everything.

Define what you mean by accept.

I mean, you said "accept." I repeated your language. What do you mean by "accept"? It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask but now perhaps you meant something different.

 

[Mac9192]

I mean, you said "accept." I repeated your language. What do you mean by "accept"? It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask but now perhaps you meant something different.

I thought I've been clear. I don't dislike someone just because they're Muslim. I can accept that they're Muslim, but not like their beliefs. I'm not going to shout at them for being one either. Do I believe they should be hold powerful positions like Politicians? No. I think their beliefs eventually show through, and won't match the overall good of our country.

I still say so much that's going on today is because our tolerance has grown, which muddies up the waters on right vs wrong.

Now, without spinning it, please define what YOU mean by accept.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I thought I've been clear. I don't dislike someone just because they're Muslim. I can accept that they're Muslim, but not like their beliefs. I'm not going to shout at them for being one either. Do I believe they should be hold powerful positions like Politicians? No. I think their beliefs eventually show through, and won't match the overall good of our country.

I still say so much that's going on today is because our tolerance has grown, which muddies up the waters on right vs wrong.

Now, without spinning it, please define what YOU mean by accept.

You realize the contradiction in telling me to define a word based on what * I * mean while also telling me not to spin it, right? I don't trust that I can say anything without your receiving it in bad faith.

I really don't think I meant anything other than what the word is known to mean... If I have to elaborate, I would start by saying I don't necessarily mean embrace and welcome on a personal level, but it does mean to honor their rights and be willing to speak up on behalf of their rights. Just like the Constitution and the Bible say. It strikes me as a very shallow, worthless form of acceptance if all you mean is being nice to their faces while you advocate against their rights.

The NCGA has put 4 fear-mongering ragebait amendments on the ballot for this November. If they were to put a 5th on the ballot where we could vote on whether Muslims are allowed to hold elected office in NC (yes) or not (no), how would you vote? Everything you've said here leads me to believe you would welcome that opportunity and be more than willing to deny them the right to run for office if you could. Everything you've said here leads me to believe you would go beyond just refusing to vote for Muslims yourself, but that you would also keep them off the ballot through laws/amendments banning them.

And where does it end for you? We've been focused on Muslims in elected positions, but you just added "powerful positions like" politics to it. What else? If it was up to you, would they be allowed to work for the USPS? a county clerk's office? for the DOT? for the town parks & rec dept? Would you approve of them getting a government job of any kind? Or approve on the condition that they can't get promoted above a certain level?

How about as host/hostess or server at your favorite restaurant? I'm sure you'd welcome their money at your tire shop, but would you ever frequent a shop a Muslim owned? Would you hire a Muslim?

 

[Mac9192]

You realize the contradiction in telling me to define a word based on what * I * mean while also telling me not to spin it, right? I don't trust that I can say anything without your receiving it in bad faith.

I really don't think I meant anything other than what the word is known to mean... If I have to elaborate, I would start by saying I don't necessarily mean embrace and welcome on a personal level, but it does mean to honor their rights and be willing to speak up on behalf of their rights. Just like the Constitution and the Bible say. It strikes me as a very shallow, worthless form of acceptance if all you mean is being nice to their faces while you advocate against their rights.

And where does it end for you? We've been focused on Muslims in elected positions, but you just added "powerful positions like" politics to it. What else? If it was up to you, would they be allowed to work for the USPS? a county clerk's office? for the DOT? for the town parks & rec dept? Would you approve of them getting a government job of any kind? Or approve on the condition that they can't get promoted above a certain level?

How about as host/hostess or server at your favorite restaurant? I'm sure you'd welcome their money at your tire shop, but would you ever frequent a shop a Muslim owned? Would you hire a Muslim?

Datt, I swear you spin more than a washing machine. YES, I have a problem with Muslims being Politicians. Thats called a position of power. Did I say they shouldn’t be allowed to work? Your diversion tactics are second to none. My opinion isn’t popular, but with the Muslims that do hold positions of power? They shouldn’t be there. They are dangerous people.

A hostess at a restaurant, really? You hit the turbo spin cycle here. As far as hiring a Muslim, I doubt it. I own my business, and want to be comfortable with who I have working for me. Just keeping it real with you.

Would you work for someone that’s a staunch conservative?