Who was the shooter?

[MTTiger19]

Everything I'm reading is that they were very much not allies and that NF and his followers have gone hard after Kirk and Turning Point.

Yikes, I’m not aware of that. I really don’t know. I was simply stating they seem to share similar views.

 

[tboonpickens]

With all due respect NF is very anti-Israel and Kirk was seemingly beginning to lean that way. In other words I would consider them allies. Could be wrong here, just my opinion.

you are very wrong

 

[MTTiger19]

Got you. Was what I meant earlier that the groypers do seem like meme'rs and trollers, so that tracks. Just not necessarily anti-fascist in the true sense I don't think.

I appreciate you more the last few days. Just thought I’d say that out loud.

Idk any conservatives that talk like that, “hey, fascists!” Or the Bella Ciao thing. That’s a pretty deep cut isn’t it? Again I don’t know. I’m trying to read about it now.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Yikes, I’m not aware of that. I really don’t know. I was simply stating they seem to share similar views.

The difference seems to specifically be around Israel. You'll notice Netanyahu had multiple comments after CK was killed. NF group are pretty full throated antisemitic is my understanding.

 

[MTTiger19]

you are very wrong

I prefaced my comment with, could be wrong. I was just making a comment that they seem to have similar views. I don’t spend my time following NF and CK fanboys accounts.

 

[MTTiger19]

The difference seems to specifically be around Israel. You'll notice Netanyahu had multiple comments after CK was killed. NF group are pretty full throated antisemitic is my understanding.

Yes they’re wildly anti-Israel. That’s why I brought it up. Charlie has been very critical of Israel recently. Which was a change in his position as I understand. Please don’t take this as gospel. I have no idea as I don’t follow this stuff religiously.

 

[Dadar]

Are we going to get some retractions from the many folks on this board who jumped to conclusions and said he was trans or radical liberal? Honestly don’t care, just highlighting as I hope they refrain from jumping to conclusions next time.

Lot of hypocrisy

 

[MTTiger19]

Everything I'm reading is that they were very much not allies and that NF and his followers have gone hard after Kirk and Turning Point.

Unreal.

 

[tboonpickens]

The difference seems to specifically be around Israel. You'll notice Netanyahu had multiple comments after CK was killed. NF group are pretty full throated antisemitic is my understanding.

No. The Groyper Wars started as far back as 2019. Israel is part of the equation, but this thing has been fomenting for a long time before the events of October 7 and its resulting fallout.

Abstract​

Since mid-October, Charlie Kirk’s Culture War college tour has been increasingly haunted by the Groyper and nicker Groyper Q&A trolls. These offline trolls use the Q&A-sessions that are part of the Culture War show format to frame Charlie Kirk as a fake, 'anti-white' conservative. A new chapter in the alt-right's cultural war re-emerges in full force.

Original language	English
Journal	Diggit Magazine
Publication status	Published - 2019

 

[fatpiggy]

Are we going to get some retractions from the many folks on this board who jumped to conclusions and said he was trans or radical liberal? Honestly don’t care, just highlighting as I hope they refrain from jumping to conclusions next time.

Sure. I’ll retract as I said I would. He does not appear to be trans.

 

[Rastafarian]

Sure. I’ll retract as I said I would. He does not appear to be trans.

Nice of you to man up.

 

[tigres88]

Sure. I’ll retract as I said I would. He does not appear to be trans.

Are you still gonna *get* the dems for calling conservatives nazis when the guy who shot your soi boi hero turns out to be an actual conservative anti-semite who killed said soi boi for his support of Israel?

 

[tboonpickens]

Sure. I’ll retract as I said I would. He does not appear to be trans.

Not trans, not leftist, not woke, not Dem.

 

[fatpiggy]

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Yes they’re wildly anti-Israel. That’s why I brought it up. Charlie has been very critical of Israel recently. Which was a change in his position as I understand. Please don’t take this as gospel. I have no idea as I don’t follow this stuff religiously.

Same on the last sentence.

 

[dpic73]

So obnoxious and predictable

How many times will you blast the board with posts about ....Dem rhetoric caused this blah, blah, blah?

 

[fatpiggy]

Personally, I hate the blame game regardless. People seem to be so quick to try to act like their "team" doesn't have crazies, its all the other. Literally every ideology has crazy people on it. Seems every time someone is killed that is a major news story, one side is quick to claim "victory" by saying its clearly the XYZ's and the other side has to try to find some connection to try to defend their "team" instead of just saying "thats fvcked up, they don't represent me and my values. " Happened in Minnesota, happened with Trump's assassination attempts, and every other major shooting. There are messed up people in the world, social media leads to radicalization and people get broken.

I think people are looking for answers as to why he was radicalized so it doesn't happen again. What was his motive? This guy was clearly motivated by the anti-facist movement. You don't accidentally engrave that on your shell casings. It also appears as if he may have had help and if so it's important to see who he was hanging out with so that those people can be held accountable and to make sure they don't go on to commit further atrocities.

Yes, the blame game is not nice, but it's important to get to the "why" and "who".

 

[fatpiggy]

Not trans, not leftist, not woke, not Dem.

But certainly an anti-fascist. No denying that. It's right there on the shell casing.

And anyone with a brain can link anti-facsist with the left. They have spent years calling the right fascists.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

I think people are looking for answers as to why he was radicalized so it doesn't happen again. What was his motive? This guy was clearly motivated by the anti-facist movement. You don't accidentally engrave that on your shell casings. It also appears as if he may have had help and if so it's important to see who he was hanging out with so that those people can be held accountable and to make sure they don't go on to commit further atrocities.

Yes, the blame game is not nice, but it's important to get to the "why" and "who".

I am fine with that idea, and I always think we should always all step back and level set ourselves. But for an example, if a Clemson fan got upset after last years loss to SC and took it too far and ran over Shane Beamer leaving the stadium (I realize this is not a perfect example, so hoping people engage in the idea not the exact example), I would certainly want to understand what could lead to that like you're saying. Was he drunk, was he being taunted, etc, and I would certainly want to check myself, make sure I'm not taking my fandom too far where it overrides my basic humanity. But I wouldn't then say "man, Clemson fans are entirely too violent, all of them should be rounded up" etc etc etc. All I was saying is that every "team" has people that go over the deep end and do horrible things.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

But certainly an anti-fascist. No denying that. It's right there on the shell casing.

And anyone with a brain can link anti-facsist with the left. They have spent years calling the right fascists.

I think people with more knowledge of the online culture he was in have indicated those seem to be pretty related to "meme culture" and the people it seems he was involved with aren't anti-fascist in the more literal sense.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

You’ve watched far too many movies in your life. Hitting a grapefruit from 200 yards isn’t that difficult. You’re acting like this guy has to be mf’ing Rambo.

Exactly

A little familiarity with the gun and some sighting in at the range and shoot practice

easy shoot as long as the shooters nerves are steady

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I was about to make the same comment on a 200 yard shot. A bullet shot from my deer rifle drops approximately 3 inches relative to it being zeroed in at 100 yards. Many, including myself, zero their rifle in 1 inch high at 100 yards. That means the bullet is only 2 inches off the crosshairs on a 200 yard shot. This is a very achievable shot for any semi-experienced hunter. Or even someone who googles it and shoots some rounds at a gun range.

This doesn't require sniper-like skills or ballistic turrets or anything like that.

Exactly easy shot

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Yea. Nobody aims for the neck. He either didn't adjust for drop/distance or just pulled it.

Exactly almost missed him

 

[tboonpickens]

I think people with more knowledge of the online culture he was in have indicated those seem to be pretty related to "meme culture" and the people it seems he was involved with aren't anti-fascist in the more literal sense.

live look at @fatpiggy trying to figure out meme culture and the groyper wars...

 

[UrHuckleberry]

live look at @fatpiggy trying to figure out meme culture and the groyper wars...

I ain’t judging the lack of knowledge. I don’t want any of that world in mine either. Though I’m also not looking specifically for a way I can blame either side.

 

[tboonpickens]

sadly predictable about-face from everyone's favorite drama queen

 

[fatpiggy]

Look at our fellow tiger getting embarrassed on the main board.

 

[tboonpickens]

 

[fatpiggy]

Anti-Facist = Antifa

Just in case you didn't make the connection.

 

[tboonpickens]

Anti-Facist = Antifa

Just in case you didn't make the connection.

 

[tboonpickens]

also lol I guess Trump's moving through the stages of grief pretty quickly here...

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Anti-Facist = Antifa

Just in case you didn't make the connection.

I’ve read (I can only share what I’ve read as I’m not in these circles) that the groypers have called Kirk a liberal in disguise and a fascist.

 

[fatpiggy]

 

[dpic73]

sadly predictable about-face from everyone's favorite drama queen

And don't forget, @TigerRagRob is going to FAFO all of us because we have blood on our hands LOL

 

[fatpiggy]

 

[baltimorened]

The reality is there are no shortage of people who thought the world would be a better place without Kirk. I don’t agree with them because no matter how disgusting I find his rhetoric, I cherish our right to free speech.

But it’s also very bad business for anyone to publicly comment on his murder. Kirk offended too many people. If you want to make a statement, just say that violence is never the answer.

the other reality is that there are likely an equal number of people who feel the world would be a better place without representatives Omar, pressly tlaib, etc. Are those who are so happy about someone killing Kirk - because they disagree with his views - ok with someone who disagrees with the others killing them also? This is a slippery slope.

kid probably can't define fascist...but that's the word used by Biden, Sanders, AOC and others.....who also likely can't define the word.

Trump dictate something he's a fascist...Biden dictates something, it's good policy.

 

[baltimorened]

So it does seem all the "Trans" stuff that many on here ran with (and WSJ ended up retracting, well after damage was done) wasn't on there at all. It was all anti-fascist stuff.

but wasn't a lot of the so called fascism claimed by the left in reference to Trump/Kirk position on transgenderism?

 

[tboonpickens]

 

[UrHuckleberry]

the other reality is that there are likely an equal number of people who feel the world would be a better place without representatives Omar, pressly tlaib, etc. Are those who are so happy about someone killing Kirk - because they disagree with his views - ok with someone who disagrees with the others killing them also? This is a slippery slope.

kid probably can't define fascist...but that's the word used by Biden, Sanders, AOC and others.....who also likely can't define the word.

Trump dictate something he's a fascist...Biden dictates something, it's good policy.

Agree with this. Trump also called Kamala a fascist.

 

[baltimorened]

Personally, I hate the blame game regardless. People seem to be so quick to try to act like their "team" doesn't have crazies, its all the other. Literally every ideology has crazy people on it. Seems every time someone is killed that is a major news story, one side is quick to claim "victory" by saying its clearly the XYZ's and the other side has to try to find some connection to try to defend their "team" instead of just saying "thats fvcked up, they don't represent me and my values. " Happened in Minnesota, happened with Trump's assassination attempts, and every other major shooting. There are messed up people in the world, social media leads to radicalization and people get broken.

but isn't at least part of the problem that we have a lot of people - both on the right and the left - who live on the edge mentally. When their leaders call opponents fascists, Nazis, threats to democracy etc, some of those people take it to heart and truly believe that someone else is going to destroy the country and their well being. Then eliminating that threat becomes more reasonable in their minds.

We need to get away from all this name calling and inciteful language...and it's both sides. You want to make a political point make it with facts and have both sides respond. Murdering someone is not an acceptable response and taking comfort in someones death is even less acceptable.

Is it ok to take the life of someone who has views different than yours?