What is worse.........

[LetsGoDuke301]

The over the top negative doomsday fan who only shows up after a loss, or the sunshine on my shoulders fan who refuses to accept a not so positive opinion?

I get the "calm down" crew who says that this team will get it together. I also get the "we're not that good" crew who expresses concern about where this team is going.

Personally, I can see this team making it to the EE or FF and I can also see them losing to a 14 or 15 seed in the first round. That's the frustrating part of OADs.

Either way, I feel confident that unc is in trouble Thursday night.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if we had a 2009 UNC-like run through the tournament where we win every game by 10+. I also wouldn't be shocked if we lost in the first round.

 

[SwatX1]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if we had a 2009 UNC-like run through the tournament where we win every game by 10+. I also wouldn't be shocked if we lost in the first round.

I'm in the same room

 

[hart2chesson]

I'm in the same room

Room filling up fast boys. I would venture this is the biggest week of practice coming up to date, as its February and we're still trying to find ourselves.

OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

The over the top negative doomsday fan who only shows up after a loss, or the sunshine on my shoulders fan who refuses to accept a not so positive opinion

Its always the same cast of characters on both sides too, you notice??? OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

Its always the same cast of characters on both sides too, you notice??? OFC

As sure as the sun comes up, you can count on the same ones showing up here after a loss.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I am more likely to avoid this board after a loss. It is funny to see the different reactions though. I say a lot of choice words during the game, but am pretty much over it in an hour or so. Some people just hold on to the anger. I would be a liar if I said I didn't get a kick out of those people.

 

[Duke1783]

At this moment, we are closer to an early exit than a deep run. Could change of course

 

[hart2chesson]

As sure as the sun comes up, you can count on the same ones showing up here after a loss.

Yep QC for sure!

OFC

 

[SwatX1]

I can deal with a loss to a good team, as long as we were in it and had a chance, but a loss to a team that was on an 11 game losing streak? No.....I don't do well!!! And some of those teams they lost to are bad.....DePaul has 13 or 14 losses and beat them by almost 20....we lose to a team that lost to DePaul by 20??? REALLY??
Y'all are getting me mad again!!!

 

[DukeDenver]

The inability of some to accept opinions without going at one another is what gets us in trouble here. I'm pumping that sunshine, but I've got no problem with folks saying that K is stubborn or that we are going to lose in the second round. My reaction to that is, "Fine, that's my stubborn coach and that is my team getting beaten by a less talented challenger in embarrassing fashion." I'm fine with that because I've seen how we have responded to this kind of performance before. There is no such thing as "perfect play" in college basketball. UVA is playing amazingly well right now, but who here is ready to crown them champs? I'd give them ~60% chance of making the final 4. If they are in our regional, those odds go to 0%, because we aren't losing another game.

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

In my opinion, the “fans” that only show up and post after a loss are the worst. I don’t see anything wrong with criticizing the team when they have a bad game but if you’re only going to post when the team has a bad game and loses then you shouldn’t be posting. The posters that post every game whether we win or lose are the posters that I think have a right to criticize the team when they have a bad game. There are even posters that even when we win, they seem to only post about the negative plays in the game even when we win.

 

[Mac9192]

I see both sides of the fans. I get mad as hell, but "try" to be reasonable about the team and K.
Personally, I think K has sold out and we rely on too many one and dones. I get sick of hearing "Take the talent and figure it out." There's no reason Bagley and Trent should be playing more than 35 minutes a game. K can't coach them like they sometimes need to be coached. I know we have some posters that are too negative, but we have plenty that are extreme from the other side too. The last thing I want to hear right now is how good next year's brotherhood members are going to be. I'm bothered by this year's team.
These last 2 seasons have been so frustrating due to the hype that the greatest collection of talent is playing for Duke, and "we have lottery picks."

This team can still go on a run and win it all, we have the talent. But on the other hand, we could flame out early.
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm not as confident going in to the Hole game as we were a few days ago. The Holes have nothing to lose. The pressure is on Duke.

 

[pisgah101]

I see both sides of the fans. I get mad as hell, but "try" to be reasonable about the team and K.
Personally, I think K has sold out and we rely on too many one and dones. I get sick of hearing "Take the talent and figure it out." There's no reason Bagley and Trent should be playing more than 35 minutes a game. K can't coach them like they sometimes need to be coached. I know we have some posters that are too negative, but we have plenty that are extreme from the other side too. The last thing I want to hear right now is how good next year's brotherhood members are going to be. I'm bothered by this year's team.
These last 2 seasons have been so frustrating due to the hype that the greatest collection of talent is playing for Duke, and "we have lottery picks."

This team can still go on a run and win it all, we have the talent. But on the other hand, we could flame out early.
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm not as confident going in to the Hole game as we were a few days ago. The Holes have nothing to lose. The pressure is on Duke.

This is pretty much how I feel exactly.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I see both sides of the fans. I get mad as hell, but "try" to be reasonable about the team and K.
Personally, I think K has sold out and we rely on too many one and dones. I get sick of hearing "Take the talent and figure it out." There's no reason Bagley and Trent should be playing more than 35 minutes a game. K can't coach them like they sometimes need to be coached. I know we have some posters that are too negative, but we have plenty that are extreme from the other side too. The last thing I want to hear right now is how good next year's brotherhood members are going to be. I'm bothered by this year's team.
These last 2 seasons have been so frustrating due to the hype that the greatest collection of talent is playing for Duke, and "we have lottery picks."

This team can still go on a run and win it all, we have the talent. But on the other hand, we could flame out early.
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm not as confident going in to the Hole game as we were a few days ago. The Holes have nothing to lose. The pressure is on Duke.

While I get your point, I still think the formula that K has produced gives us the greatest "chance" to win a title. I don't think anyone wants to go back to 2007-2009, where all we had was "program guys" who weren't automatically gonna become NBA players without working hard. Those years, we had zero chance to win a title. And I'm aware that 2010 happened without a single stud freshman, we just had the perfect blend of size, leadership, shooting, etc. Basically, we can win like in 2015 or 2010, just think our current method still gives us the better statistical odds.

Do we need to do a better job of recruiting guys who will stay in the program for years to come? Yes. Guys like Jordan Tucker leaving could kill us down the road. I think it's stupid to put a cap on the number of stud OAD's that we should take each year. If Zion wants to come to Duke, we should do whatever it takes to have him. We just need to keep guys around longer. And I don't know if that is an issue with our staff developing guys, or the non-studs feeling like they will never be given a chance, only the staff and players know that.

 

[Mac9192]

This is pretty much how I feel exactly.

Something else, if we're being honest. What does everyone that's not a Kentucky fan say about Cal? He can't coach, or he's laughed at for swapping talent every year, for one title during the one and done era.
Then so many Duke fans get so pumped up cause we got Bagley this season, or Zion next season.
What will be said about Duke if we don't win it all this season? Better question, what would we say if the roles were reversed and this was Kentucky and say they had Dukes team and didn't win it all?

 

[pisgah101]

Something else, if we're being honest. What does everyone that's not a Kentucky fan say about Cal? He can't coach, or he's laughed at for swapping talent every year, for one title during the one and done era.
Then so many Duke fans get so pumped up cause we got Bagley this season, or Zion next season.
What will be said about Duke if we don't win it all this season? Better question, what would we say if the roles were reversed and this was Kentucky and say they had Dukes team and didn't win it all?

You're right. Me and my dad were talking about it. We are both in the same boat and nobody believes cal can coach. K has proven he can coach but he sold out for a method that hasn't proven to work. Can we still win it all? Yes but Carolina, nova and the zags the past two years have shown you where champions are going to start coming from. Don't be surprised to see a Clemson, Tennessee, or auburn win a championship in the next couple seasons


That being said K is at the point of no return, he doesn't have time to build a team anymore so he has to hope one and does pay off. I hope they do too because I want to win! Also I'm excited about Zion

 

[skysdad]

What is worse. Going down a water slide into a pool of snot or getting beat by unc. I'll take the snot any day. OFC

 

[Whutadrag2]

The OAD teams need a little experience. 2012 winners started 2 Soph and 1 Sr played big minutes. Our 2015 had Amile, Matt, and MP3.

This team has Grayson....IF the 2016 Grayson emerges, that very well could be all that we need.

 

[Mac9192]

You're right. Me and my dad were talking about it. We are both in the same boat and nobody believes cal can coach. K has proven he can coach but he sold out for a method that hasn't proven to work. Can we still win it all? Yes but Carolina, nova and the zags the past two years have shown you where champions are going to start coming from. Don't be surprised to see a Clemson, Tennessee, or auburn win a championship in the next couple seasons


That being said K is at the point of no return, he doesn't have time to build a team anymore so he has to hope one and does pay off. I hope they do too because I want to win! Also I'm excited about Zion

Blending. I get taking the one and dones, but I would limit it at 3. I know we have Bagley, but by taking Bagley K went to Vegas and bet the farm. I know I'm in the minority here, and I could be proven wrong, but I wouldn't have taken Bagley. I said it to a buddy of mine back in the summer. I'm probably the only one who thinks this. I know Bagley is a stud.
I think we have too many cooks in the kitchen. I go back to the Michigan St game. Ironic that not only was it Grayson's best game, but it was also Duval's best as well. I think we lean on Marvin too much.
Man I hope I'm wrong, but this team looks more similar to last year than 15.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Blending. I get taking the one and dones, but I would limit it at 3. I know we have Bagley, but by taking Bagley K went to Vegas and bet the farm. I know I'm in the minority here, and I could be proven wrong, but I wouldn't have taken Bagley. I said it to a buddy of mine back in the summer. I'm probably the only one who thinks this. I know Bagley is a stud.
I think we have too many cooks in the kitchen. I go back to the Michigan St game. Ironic that not only was it Grayson's best game, but it was also Duval's best as well. I think we lean on Marvin too much.
Man I hope I'm wrong, but this team looks more similar to last year than 15.

Yeah we would be like 13-10 without Bagley, without a title shot. We rely on Marvin too much, sure, but come on.

 

[Mac9192]

Yeah we would be like 13-10 without Bagley, without a title shot. We rely on Marvin too much, sure, but come on.

The roles would be defined differently. You're seeing what you see now and just taking him out now, without accounting how the team would have been different, and players time. We would be a deeper team without him.
I realize he's a future nba star, a generational talent.
Look I hope to win it all, but I think a team can have too much talent.
The good news is this team still has time.

 

[denverexpat]

Yeah we would be like 13-10 without Bagley, without a title shot. We rely on Marvin too much, sure, but come on.

Replace Bagley with a junior or senior who played 20-30 mins and gave you 15pts/10 rebs, defense and leadership - would you do it? We dont have those players any more - and those were the ones that gave us the intangibles to mix into the talent and win. This isnt roulette where betting all or none on Red/Black is 50/50...this is like betting it all on green ( no pun intended)

 

[retiredsoldier]

For me, I get upset when Duke looses to a team that I feel they should beat. When you were born and raised in the State of North Carolina, majority of fans are either Cheat or Blue Devil fans, who loves to talk smack. With that comes a huge amount of disappointment when Duke loose for me. I don't mind losing to a great team, but still have a hard time processing how we loose to teams that we are just clearly better than. But I keep that to myself and not post.

I've been around long enough to know that we as human's all react different to losing. Some loose their mind during the game while it's still going on, and then turn around and praise the same person they just finished bashing a few minutes ago or throughout the game. I myself post here as well as the premium board when a lot of poster start blaming one person when it's clearly evident that it's more then that. I can stomach losing after the initial hair pulling episode, but always had a hard time watching or hearing people blaming one person on a TEAM loss.

For all the talk you see here about people only coming around when Duke loose, well some still come around and complain even when Duke wins. At the end of the day, after I get over my few minutes of complaining about our loss, to my poor wife lol, reality kicks in and I realize it's just a game and have faith that the next time, Duke will play better. I think about my career and if it had played out at least 2 days a week on national tv for everybody to view and give their advice about what I didn't or should have done. With some of those voicing their opinion and never even participated in the exact thing they are going off about.
At the end of the day, these young men and their families committed to Duke for how ever many months or years they are here. So during that time, even though I get pissed at the team, I try my best to support them in the most positive way I can during their time. We all make mistakes, these Duke players mistakes are just shown for the everybody to judge.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Wait, are we really to the point of discussing whether Bagley should be on this team??? Wow.
Anyone remember the PK80? We probably go 0-3 without him. FSU? That would have been a 20 point loss.
Sure, the roles would be different, Bolden would be starting center. We would be playing 3 versus 5 in the halfcourt offense instead of already playing 4 versus 5.
We must have all 5 starters in order to get where we need to be. Bagley more than anyone though.

I'm still in shock that this is actually a discussion.

 

[Kingbluedevil]

On a different note watching the lakers Brandon Ingram running the point. Announcer said he played at Carolina

 

[retiredsoldier]

On a different note watching the lakers Brandon Ingram running the point. Announcer said he played at Carolina

Lmbo, I thought I heard that.

 

[Kingbluedevil]

Bagley is our best player. He was so good for a few games that everyone started watching him instead of playing. He also has been defended different last few games

 

[Duke1783]

Yeah we would be like 13-10 without Bagley, without a title shot. We rely on Marvin too much, sure, but come on.

I kinda agree but we’ve proven we can win without Bags like we did with Michigan St. we need the Grayson we saw in that game back

 

[pisgah101]

Yeah we would be like 13-10 without Bagley, without a title shot. We rely on Marvin too much, sure, but come on.

I don't think we'd be that bad. We'd have lost a couple more deff but Wendell would be a monster alone and Grayson would have a different role. I love Bagley though and I'm glad we have him

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I kinda agree but we’ve proven we can win without Bags like we did with Michigan St. we need the Grayson we saw in that game back

Yeah, that is correct we beat MSU when Bagley barely played. We also needed Grayson to hit 2 ridiculously low-percentage threes to pull that out, combined with MSU seeming to be in total shock that we were playing a zone. I'd rather not roll the dice on those Grayson threes or our zone defense for 40 minutes again.

 

[topps coach]

While I get your point, I still think the formula that K has produced gives us the greatest "chance" to win a title. I don't think anyone wants to go back to 2007-2009, where all we had was "program guys" who weren't automatically gonna become NBA players without working hard. Those years, we had zero chance to win a title. And I'm aware that 2010 happened without a single stud freshman, we just had the perfect blend of size, leadership, shooting, etc. Basically, we can win like in 2015 or 2010, just think our current method still gives us the better statistical odds.

Do we need to do a better job of recruiting guys who will stay in the program for years to come? Yes. Guys like Jordan Tucker leaving could kill us down the road. I think it's stupid to put a cap on the number of stud OAD's that we should take each year. If Zion wants to come to Duke, we should do whatever it takes to have him. We just need to keep guys around longer. And I don't know if that is an issue with our staff developing guys, or the non-studs feeling like they will never be given a chance, only the staff and players know that.

Honestly think the OAD era will be over at the latest in two years.Presently you recruit the best players you can and right now they are OAD’s.When we were not getting people went nuts over not getting the top talent so it is a damned if you do or damned if you don’t.Last year was derailed by injuries and frankly without them imo we were better set up to win a NC due to the mix of experience and talent.This year we have talent but no experience so I am anxious to let it play out, but I am never been one to think a season is a failure if you don’t win the chip

 

[Mac9192]

Yeah, that is correct we beat MSU when Bagley barely played. We also needed Grayson to hit 2 ridiculously low-percentage threes to pull that out, combined with MSU seeming to be in total shock that we were playing a zone. I'd rather not roll the dice on those Grayson threes or our zone defense for 40 minutes again.

Back to what we were talking about. I think Bagley is a good teammate, and a great player. I think we rely on him way too much, and I think the rest of the team has had to adjust to the point where are we better as a team?
We will see. Something has to change for this team to do what we want them to though.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Back to what we were talking about. I think Bagley is a good teammate, and a great player. I think we rely on him way too much, and I think the rest of the team has had to adjust to the point where are we better as a team?
We will see. Something has to change for this team to do what we want them to though.

As long as your'e not stating that we would be better off without Bagley (which you did a bit ago, and I think that is ridiculous) but I agree with this. We do rely on Bagley too much, it has caused our others guys to stand around. I am not sure that the greatest offensive strategy is to run everything through Bagley, one because he isn't a great passer, and two because he is the ULTIMATE garbage clean-up man. He is easily our best player though.

I'm not sure we should have a "number one option." We are that talented and our starting 5 is diverse enough that everyone brings something different to the table. One thing I do know: Every single Duke team that I can recall always got great open 3 point looks. Whether it be a guy coming off double screens, or a point guard (Jason Williams did this better than anyone, Tyus too) at coming off a ball screen and shooting 3's at the top of the key. It's like we don't even run plays to get Gary or Grayson open 3 point looks. That needs to happen. With our horses inside (the best combo we have ever had) Gary and Grayson should be getting tons of open looks, and it's not happening. Is it the playcalling? Duval? Are Gary and Grayson bad at coming off screens? I don't know, but it's weird.

 

[Tross282003]

Losing to a good team like Virginia is vastly different than losing to St. John’s.

A lose to a really bad team could knock you down a few seeds in the tournament.

Statistically, if you are one seed you have almost a 50/50 chance of making the final four. Odds drop dramatically after that.

2010 we were a one seed and won it all.
2015 we were a one seed and won it all.

We haven’t been to final four since the early 90’s when we didn’t have a number one seed.

This team could win it all, but it becomes exponentially harder the lower the seed is. This team can only have one more lose and still be in consideration for a one seed.

The loss to St. John’s is really equivalent to two or three loses instead of one.

K understands this more than anyone.

UNC won last year mostly because they had a one seed. If they had a two or three seed no way they would have won it all they most likely lose in the sweet 16.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

A 1 seed is absolutely key to Duke. Not sure who would debate that. The tourney scares me to death anymore. And yesterday fully reinforced that. It felt so much like a tourney game. Utter frustration to sum it up

 

[Mac9192]

As long as your'e not stating that we would be better off without Bagley (which you did a bit ago, and I think that is ridiculous) but I agree with this. We do rely on Bagley too much, it has caused our others guys to stand around. I am not sure that the greatest offensive strategy is to run everything through Bagley, one because he isn't a great passer, and two because he is the ULTIMATE garbage clean-up man. He is easily our best player though.

I'm not sure we should have a "number one option." We are that talented and our starting 5 is diverse enough that everyone brings something different to the table. One thing I do know: Every single Duke team that I can recall always got great open 3 point looks. Whether it be a guy coming off double screens, or a point guard (Jason Williams did this better than anyone, Tyus too) at coming off a ball screen and shooting 3's at the top of the key. It's like we don't even run plays to get Gary or Grayson open 3 point looks. That needs to happen. With our horses inside (the best combo we have ever had) Gary and Grayson should be getting tons of open looks, and it's not happening. Is it the playcalling? Duval? Are Gary and Grayson bad at coming off screens? I don't know, but it's weird.

We definitely aren't setting screens for Allen. I don't know exactly who is to blame or why he is so passive all of the sudden, but a big non conference game in Madison Square and with one minute to go in the game and he has taken 4 shots, and only one 3?
It's hard for me to not think our bigs and Trent can't do a better job in that area. Plus the guy that sets the screen is that much more dangerous.
Watch our boy Maye play sometimes. He's so active, moving, setting screens. That leads to open looks for him some.
Plus I'm very frustrated with our over reliance on Marvin. This team is too good for that.

 

[dukesince91]

We definitely aren't setting screens for Allen. I don't know exactly who is to blame or why he is so passive all of the sudden, but a big non conference game in Madison Square and with one minute to go in the game and he has taken 4 shots, and only one 3?
It's hard for me to not think our bigs and Trent can't do a better job in that area. Plus the guy that sets the screen is that much more dangerous.
Watch our boy Maye play sometimes. He's so active, moving, setting screens. That leads to open looks for him some.
Plus I'm very frustrated with our over reliance on Marvin. This team is too good for that.

Our boy Maye, not mine. GTHC GTH!

 

[hallside]

I just get annoyed when some posters on here give up on the season after every loss, and then if we win a few in a row they are optimistic again. Fair weather fans aren't real fans. It's bandwagon-y. I'm all for questioning our weaknesses. But not giving up on the team after a setback.

 

[acc hoops]

It is up to coaching staff to make adjustments in the game.
Carter needs to get more than 6 shots in a game. Run some plays for him to get touches.