But not if Greg lost everyone else....he would have played him. And here is the thing...If a kid on Greg's team got into the difficulty that Barnwell did, we NEVER would have heard about it. Greg took control of the University for a handful of years...it actually looked like a mini PSU except for the rape and stuff...You didn't go against him and you always knew what he expected. The moment he left, the sharks came back out against the football program.
What is Chris Ash's Vision??
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I could see that but I also don’t ever see Schiano allowing a situation to get to that point ever.
Joe P.
Not the point - by the time GS was GS...the professor just would have let Barnwell take some extra credit. It never even would have made it to Greg. By the end of his time here, he did become mini JoePa...
There are parallels. Both Terry Shea and Chris Ash did not hit the ground running like Greg Schiano did, when he was hired. I understand that Ash felt obligated to finish out his tenure with Urban Meyer, but at the same time, he's accountable for the 2016 class that he brought in. Both Terry Shea's and Chris Ashs did not have great results for their first class. Both had trouble recruiting New Jersey. Ash does seem to be doing a better job of player development, ensuring accountability and S&C. Both had people in the fanbase making excuses for their less than stellar performance. The fanbase also idealized the effectiveness of their 2 star recruits. Understandable as fans are naturally optimistic.
I sure hope not, but at this stage, things could go either way, imo. This year is going to be critical for Chris Ash. Needs to do a much better job recruiting New Jersey than he did last year and he better find a way to 6 wins. We do seem to have better recruiters, so I'm optimistic about recruiting, but we still have to play PSU, OSU, UM, MSU, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Northwestern. Can't really look at any of these games as Wins, yet.
Al, if Chris Ash is to be held accountable for the 2016 class, then Kyle Flood should be held liable for the 2016 class.
How do you figure? Kyle Flood wasn't an employee when the 2016 class signed. once Flood was fired, he was no longer responsible for the 2016 class. Ash was the one getting paid as an employee and is consequently responsible.
a plan isn't a vision. a vision is not a plan. a plan could be the strategy to achieve the vision.
The "don't worry be happy" and "trust Ash" theme of your post does not inspire confidence. You can blame Kyle in year 1 and year 2. Year 3 is where the rubber meets the road, and Ash owns this. With three recruiting classes in, the majority of players on the team are his.
The first recruiting year was a mixture of Ash and Flood recruits. Ash did his best to honor the commitments of Flood's recruits. As it turned out, many of them did not work out. Sure some did, like Gray and Hayes but majority of "Flood's kids" did not - Pollock is probably the poster child of that group. Granted it was a mix bag, with guys that didn't work out like Oden and Bailey, but considering the hand he was dealt, Ash actually did a good job with last minute additions like Lumor, Tyreek-Williams, Lonsdorf, Maeitti and Turner. If anything the first recruiting class told me Ash knows how to spot talent - stars be damned.
10 out of 18 Recruits contributed something from the 2016 class, so that class didn't turn out to be that bad. Ash did do a good job with last minute additions. But the concern is that its year 3, and there may not be enough talent to be competitive in the Big Ten. Thats not Floods fault. That's on Ash.
Kyle could have done a lot of things better, but he did leave a base of talent, which should have been enough to not be putrid. We won 8 games with many of these players in 2014. While we only won 4 games in 2015, we were at least competitive in some others:
Do you not understand that Flood left a decent amount of talent to win more than 2 games in 2016?
QB - Laviano, Rettig, Resigno
RB-Robert Martin, Josh Hicks, Justin Goodwin
TE - Nick Arcidiacono, Nakia Griffon
WR - Andre Patton, Janarion Grant, Carlton Agudosi
OL - Derrick Nelson, Chris Muller, Dorian Miller, JJ Denman, Tariq Cole
DE - Quanzell Lambert, Darnell Davis, Julian Pinnix-Odrick
DT - Darius Hamilton, Sebastian Joseph
LB - Deonte Roberts, Najee Clayton, Trevor Morris
DB - Isaiah Wharton, Blessuan Austin, Anthony Cioffi, Saquan Hampton, Kiy Hester
Sure the talent level decreased, as we were hit by graduation. But the biggest issue is that we were unable to recruit a quarterback and the quarterback we did play initially, was ill suited for the spread, not to mention our OC was in over his head.
We have struggled the past two years largely due to inadequate qb play and a scheme that didn't fit the players in year 1. That falls squarely on Chris Ashes shoulders. - So not having an adequate QB in his first two years is Ash's fault? Okey dokey. Whatever dude.
Yes, absolutely. He's getting paid the $2M to produce results, and he didn't produce enough results. In year 1, most of the players were carryover Flood players anyway. He recruited Oden and another Quarterback who just didn't have the talent.
In order for me to feel comfortable with where things are headed, I need to see signs of progress. These are the concerns:
The first recruiting year was a mixture of Ash and Flood recruits. Ash did his best to honor the commitments of Flood's recruits. As it turned out, many of them did not work out. Sure some did, like Gray and Hayes but majority of "Flood's kids" did not - Pollock is probably the poster child of that group. Granted it was a mix bag, with guys that didn't work out like Oden and Bailey, but considering the hand he was dealt, Ash actually did a good job with last minute additions like Lumor, Tyreek-Williams, Lonsdorf, Maeitti and Turner. If anything the first recruiting class told me Ash knows how to spot talent - stars be damned.
10 out of 18 Recruits contributed something from the 2016 class, so that class didn't turn out to be that bad. Ash did do a good job with last minute additions. But the concern is that its year 3, and there may not be enough talent to be competitive in the Big Ten. Thats not Floods fault. That's on Ash.
Kyle could have done a lot of things better, but he did leave a base of talent, which should have been enough to not be putrid. We won 8 games with many of these players in 2014. While we only won 4 games in 2015, we were at least competitive in some others:
- falling 37-34 to WSU
- falling 31-24 to MSU
- falling 46-41 to Maryland
Do you not understand that Flood left a decent amount of talent to win more than 2 games in 2016?
QB - Laviano, Rettig, Resigno
RB-Robert Martin, Josh Hicks, Justin Goodwin
TE - Nick Arcidiacono, Nakia Griffon
WR - Andre Patton, Janarion Grant, Carlton Agudosi
OL - Derrick Nelson, Chris Muller, Dorian Miller, JJ Denman, Tariq Cole
DE - Quanzell Lambert, Darnell Davis, Julian Pinnix-Odrick
DT - Darius Hamilton, Sebastian Joseph
LB - Deonte Roberts, Najee Clayton, Trevor Morris
DB - Isaiah Wharton, Blessuan Austin, Anthony Cioffi, Saquan Hampton, Kiy Hester
Sure the talent level decreased, as we were hit by graduation. But the biggest issue is that we were unable to recruit a quarterback and the quarterback we did play initially, was ill suited for the spread, not to mention our OC was in over his head.
We have struggled the past two years largely due to inadequate qb play and a scheme that didn't fit the players in year 1. That falls squarely on Chris Ashes shoulders. - So not having an adequate QB in his first two years is Ash's fault? Okey dokey. Whatever dude.
Yes, absolutely. He's getting paid the $2M to produce results, and he didn't produce enough results. In year 1, most of the players were carryover Flood players anyway. He recruited Oden and another Quarterback who just didn't have the talent.
In order for me to feel comfortable with where things are headed, I need to see signs of progress. These are the concerns:
- Recruiting worsened from 2017 to 2018 - Says who? The 2018 kids have a strong chance to have starters/2 deep at QB, WRs, RB. Anybody who says the 2018 class is a bad class is simply clueless. This narrative has to stop. It's off the charts in the stupid department.
- Ash recruited fewer than half the number of NJ HS players in 2018 than he did in 2017 - Recruiting the right fit and good athletes is infinitely more important than where they are from.
- To make up for the lack of NJ recruiting productivity, Ash recruited 6 players from NY, where the quality of HS football isn't as good, and players will likely need more development - Brian Leonard, Ray Rice, the McCourty twins and many others will disagree with you.
The McCourty twins played their HS ball in NJ for St Joseph's Montvale, so I consider them to be NJ recruits. Similar to how Jarret Paul is from NY but played for Paramus Catholic
- Even during the Kyle Flood era, NJ's best recruits, like Jarrett Guarantano, would at least unofficially visit Rutgers. That doesn't seem to be happening, with the same frequency, this year - Uhm, Zamar Wise - arguable best QB in NJ 2019 Class would disagree with you.
- The only high ranked 2019 NJ recruit Todd Hunt sees Rutgers landing is NJ #9 Nyquee Hawkins - How many high ranked recruits from NJ did your boy Flood land in four years?
Ok, I get it. You have a lot of concerns about the current coach. You are entitled to that opinion, however, if you are going to go negative at this point do not turnaround and predict a 10+ season. At least be consistent, as you describe the program it sounds like we are in for another very tough year.
Just stfu already with this ******** thread. Drama queen.
We were so close to this falling off and getting $500 donated, damnnnnnnn
I’m not writing negative things just to be negative. I see issues and hope they will be addressed. There has been progress, but just not as much as I expected. Most of my gripes would disappear if he would stop wasting his time in the Midwest and start putting serious effort into recruiting Florida. But he won’t, due to ego, and wants to do things the Chris Ash way rather than the Greg Schiano way
There are some things which give me hope:
1- landing Artur Sitkowski after Miami dropped him, demonstrates his persistence
2 - the QB room is as talented as I can remember
3 - Hiring John McNulty as OC was a strong move
4 - The 2017 class was solid, and should see big improvement this year, especially WRs like Bo Melton and Wormley. Daevon Robinson may be the Big WR that Mcnulty needs for the offense to flourish
5- there is a solid group of Flood veterans combined with players that Ash recruited that might be able to lift this team to success:
QB: Gio Resigno
OL: Tariq Cole, Jonah Jackson, Kamaal Seymour, Zack Heeman, Zach Venesky, Nick Krimin
TE: Nakia Griffin
DL: Jon Bateky, Willington Previlon, Kevin Wilkins
LB: Trevor Morris, Deonte Roberts
DB: Blessaun Austin, Isiaih Wharton, Saquan Hampton
I post because I care. It would be much easier to ignore the obvious issues and wave the Pom-poms.
You are free to ignore the thread.
We would have had far more depth under Greg, and Barnwell would have been tossed. Flood put up with a lot from Barnwell. Ash does run a tight ship, so that’s a positive.
I can’t believe this garbage poster is allowed to post on this board.
Cook played in 2001 and only transferred after the coaches wanted to switch his position, to either fullback or linebacker. But his ego couldn’t handle being switched, so he transferred to North Carolina, where he ultimately played fullback, ironically.
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/politi_for_rutgers_long_before.html
Somehow, some way we’ve got to get 6 wins or come pretty close, so that at least we can continue to show progress.
THIS I do agree with. Ash is in trouble if he don't continue the progress and get 6 wins this year.
He is not in trouble if he does not win 6 games !!! Please stop saying that.
Given all those championships Schiano won I agree Ash should do it the Schiano way, whatever that actually means.
Esp with all that work he did with all those players who wound up in the NFL.
IMHO, he shouldnt be in trouble unless he goes 2-10 this year. But he will be with some of the impatient ones and that may have some sway on the admin.
Al, your opinion on Ash is just that yours. I said it before and will repeat it clearly for you. Any new coach for any school, especially during his first year, will recruit from areas that he is familiar with and where he has his main contacts. There is nothing to be gained exploring new areas during the first year and expending time and energy that would produce limited results. The second year opportunities to expand may be available and year three perhaps even better.
But just because you may think Florida is the only place to find football players then you are mistaken. So please stop with the same mantra day in and day out. Just what do you expect from Florida players...at best they are probably skilled players. Linemen just don't get away and efforts are better spent in the NJ, NY, PA and nearby states and where the staff has contacts. What in the world is so hard to understand. Maybe, and I hope is not soon, the AD should ask and make sure candidates have strong ties to Florida. Would that make you happy?
Your negativity and apparent dislike for Ash is obvious. Get over it and understand he is our coach and does have a vision and plan. Because it is not like yours then you need to suck it up and see how things progress this year before popping off.
But just because you may think Florida is the only place to find football players then you are mistaken. So please stop with the same mantra day in and day out. Just what do you expect from Florida players...at best they are probably skilled players. Linemen just don't get away and efforts are better spent in the NJ, NY, PA and nearby states and where the staff has contacts. What in the world is so hard to understand. Maybe, and I hope is not soon, the AD should ask and make sure candidates have strong ties to Florida. Would that make you happy?
Your negativity and apparent dislike for Ash is obvious. Get over it and understand he is our coach and does have a vision and plan. Because it is not like yours then you need to suck it up and see how things progress this year before popping off.
Rikki Cook now a Montclair policeman. Big dude.
From an older article:
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/politi_for_rutgers_long_before.html
You look at our schedule, and honestly don’t think 3 wins gets him in trouble?
I think if he does not get to 6 wins in the next 3 seasons, he will probably be gone. It's my opinion that he will get there, possibly in 2019.
Ash is trying to do things the right way. Having McNulty back will help. Word is that he gave Ash his word that he will stay at least 2 years. That will stabilize the program. McNulty is a professional and a known quantity in NJ. He would have won games that Kill lost last year. Say what you want about Kill but he was not an offensive schemer. He was just trying to keep the wheels from falling off in 2017.
#TrustTheAshProcess
The knucklehead I am referring to said ash is gone if he doesn’t win 6 games this year not in the next 3 years ! He is going nowhere right now he is doing everything plus some in terms of what he was brought in here to do. Some posters don’t understand what is going on at RU. Frustrating to deal with them but you can’t blame them either they ar3 not that engaged or informed.
If you're referring to me, show me where I said "Ash is gone." In fact this was what I said: "THIS I do agree with. Ash is in trouble if he don't continue the progress and get 6 wins this year." That would mean his seat would be sizzling next year because the Anti Ash Crew (which I'm not a part of) would be going apesh** in 2019.
Maybe you should learn to read before you call people "knuckleheads."
If he don’t continue? English major? By the way I wasn’t talking to you it was a different knucklehead .
What I cant understand is why are so many here giving this AL character (and his associates) so much credence??? He post as if he is some college football guru and his evaluation of the current state of the RU program carries some weight. It doesn't! Unfortunately too many are responding to him in a way that is giving him much much more significance than he deserves. Based on his often ridiculous posts over the years, predicting extremely unrealistic on field results, he should have long ago lost all credibility.
I got your English Major, Jackass. I'd show you sign language but this site doesn't have that emoji.
Regardless of what happens, he gets his full 5 Years. But it’s going to be awful tough for him to recruit.if we cannot continue to progress. Given our improvement in S&C and that Artur looks like the real deal, we should get 6 or come pretty close, and that’s what needs to happen.
Please wake up. Stop talking about first year, because this is his fourth recruiting year, and he is still trying to recruit the Midwest and Georgia, despite having very little to show for his efforts in year 1-3. Everyone understands that you stick with what you know in year 1. I’m registering the concern because he seems hell bent on repeating the same mistakes he’s previously made, in year 4. You’d think he’d have learned his lesson by now, that it’s not such a good idea to recruit against Midwest programs on their turf. He had three years to show tangible results, it didn’t work out, it’s time to move on.
IMO, he would show a better return on investment if he recruited Florida instead of the Midwest and Georgia. No one has a problem with him recruiting NY, NJ, and Pa.
Huh, crazy Al thinks we should target Florida.
Groundbreaking stuff here. Keep it coming.
Also - WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL A THING
Groundbreaking stuff here. Keep it coming.
Also - WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL A THING
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