Ukraine

[Tenacious E_rivals41982]

This is from Claude: "Gorbachev (1990): Declassified U.S., Soviet, German, French, and British documents show Secretary of State James Baker assured Gorbachev that if a united Germany stayed in NATO, there would be no extension of NATO's jurisdiction eastward. This wasn't just Baker — multiple Western leaders, including Bush, Kohl, Genscher, Thatcher, and Mitterrand, all conveyed similar assurances to Soviet leaders in 1990. Crucially, these assurances were never written into a formal treaty, though the record shows a clear pattern of communication from top Western officials creating a real expectation on the Soviet side."

Now do Ukraine giving up its nukes in exchange for security assurances against threats or the use of force on Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty, pursuant to the Budapest Memorandum.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

This is from Claude: "Gorbachev (1990): Declassified U.S., Soviet, German, French, and British documents show Secretary of State James Baker assured Gorbachev that if a united Germany stayed in NATO, there would be no extension of NATO's jurisdiction eastward. This wasn't just Baker — multiple Western leaders, including Bush, Kohl, Genscher, Thatcher, and Mitterrand, all conveyed similar assurances to Soviet leaders in 1990. Crucially, these assurances were never written into a formal treaty, though the record shows a clear pattern of communication from top Western officials creating a real expectation on the Soviet side."

LOL... so what you have is AI saying people say people said it.

Was. There. Any. Formal. Agreement?

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

Now do Ukraine giving up its nukes in exchange for security assurances against threats or the use of force on Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty, pursuant to the Budapest Memorandum.

And that's actually written down. An actual agreement.

 

[DailyBuck7]

LOL... so what you have is AI saying people say people said it.

Was. There. Any. Formal. Agreement?

It has been well known for 10 or 15 years at least that the United States and Western Europe lied to russia. Russia has good reasons to be suspicious of the United states. Do your own research and get yourself up to par if you don't believe this. (Ai is right about 80 or 90% of the time, and I'm not going to prove that two plus two equals four)This has been common knowledge for a long time. I don't know why you ask whether there was a formal agreement because what I quoted said there wasn't. The Russians were dumb enough to trust the West.

 

[Tenacious E_rivals41982]

Is dailybuck a reincarnation of nat Algren/warrior poet?

 

[DailyBuck7]

LOL... so what you have is AI saying people say people said it.

Was. There. Any. Formal. Agreement?

Rather than go back and forth, I will cite one link to what is obvious. https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Part of the quote from the link is :


"Not once, but three times, Baker tried out the “not one inch eastward” formula with Gorbachev in the February 9, 1990, meeting. He agreed with Gorbachev’s statement in response to the assurances that “NATO expansion is unacceptable.” Baker assured Gorbachev that “neither the President nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understood that “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.” (See Document 6)

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

It has been well known for 10 or 15 years at least that the United States and Western Europe lied to russia. Russia has good reasons to be suspicious of the United states. Do your own research and get yourself up to par if you don't believe this. (Ai is right about 80 or 90% of the time, and I'm not going to prove that two plus two equals four)This has been common knowledge for a long time. I don't know why you ask whether there was a formal agreement because what I quoted said there wasn't. The Russians were dumb enough to trust the West.

Sooo... no. That's what I thought. There was no agreement.

You might want to examine the 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act where Russia accepted NATO expansion in exchange for concessions. This would be after 1990. The deal states "NATO has expanded and will continue to expand its political functions". Yeltsin didn't like the idea of NATO expansion but said, "the negative consequences of NATO's enlargement will be reduced to the minimum through the NATO–Russia deal". Russian acceptance of NATO expansion is on the record... unlike your implied promise that was never codified.

Take a knee, comrade.