Russia is really ramping up the scope of the Ukraine war. Putin will keep pushing until someone stops him or ..........
Ukraine
- Thread starter Dadar
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Wait, this is still going on? I thought it would end January 21, 2025?
With a single phone call.
F Russia. Would have been over 4 or 5 years ago if Biden and Boris Johnson hadn't told Ukraine to reject a peace settlement. Think of how many people have lost their lives because of this.
Nice try, but your *** buddy promised.
Deflection of responsibility for about 6 years of lost lives. I realize that doesn't matter to people with TDS, but it matters to some people.
Deflection? You’re the one who pivoted to Biden. Your TDRS is showing.
You are the one who has tried to hide Biden's much greater responsibility and shame.
You are such an idiot. Full stop.
This isn’t about trump or biden. It is about Putin.
I don’t recall that. What where the details of that settlement?
Ukraine giving up all occupied land to Russia with zero compensation or surrender money to rebuild infrastructure.
Imagine if Mexico super sized their military and then tried to take back the southwest states by force. Would all these folks who wanted Ukraine to give up land to end a war they didn't start want us to give up the southwest to end a war we didn't start?
And this is one of the things I have noticed about many, if not most, conservatives - they lack circumstantial empathy. They don't have the ability to suspend their own biases and beliefs in order to put themselves in someone else's shoes.
What if Mexico super sized their military and had China's full backing.
Would you give up the southwest states to end that war that the USA didn't start, or would you want to fight back to protect the lives and interests of America?
What are you talking about. We should defend our territory. Ukraine is of no concern to me. Let them give up territory or die trying to keep it. Stop sending them money. We have our own problems.
Here are the details from Claude:
Ukraine could still pursue EU membership
Crimea's status would be deferred for 15 years of consultation
Major sticking points remained unresolved: Russia wanted Ukraine's military capped around 85,000 troops; Ukraine wanted 250,000. The fate of Donetsk and Luhansk was also unsettled.
Former Israeli PM Naftali Bennett, who was involved in the talks, has said Russia and Ukraine were willing to make major concessions to end the conflict until pressure from then-UK PM Boris Johnson convinced Zelensky to back away from the deal
Totally ridiculous comparison. Russia is surrounded by numerous hostile States and the United States welshed on an agreement not to expand NATO. We are expending Ukrainian lives to support geopolitical goals that have very little to do with the ukraine. There are numerous places all over the world where there are border disputes. They are not our concern. Right now the Ukrainian Russian war resembles world War I stalled trench warfare in the sense that no real progress is being made on either side and lives are being wasted.
Russia can leave at Ukraine at any time and this will be over.
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Did you ever see the details if that proposed "peace settlement"?
Ukraine would have been screwed.
Explain the moves made in Venezuela?
Was that "defending our territory"?
You pick and choose your POV.
I didn’t want to go to Venezuela. How am I picking and choosing.
I oppose what happened in Venezuela. None of our business. The principle of intervention leads to never ending war.
No it won't. Between China and Ukraine and the smaller hostile States, conflicts can break out at any time involving russia. Best for the United States to stay out of it unless our interest is so strong that it would make sense to send ground troops to protect our interest. It is in the best interest of the United States for Russia to be reasonably secure at its borders.
See above my reference to Claude summary. Also, if Ukraine was willing to agree to it and save hundreds of thousands of lives of ukrainians, it is none of our business.
Really rich of you to talk about empathy. What about the lives of hundreds of thousands of young ukrainians and Russians, who wouldn't be killing each other if not for the geopolitical manipulations of Europeans and the United States.
So, Russia started the war by attacking Ukraine but can't end it by ceasing hostilities? Interesting perspective.
This is some idiotic nonsense. Russia invaded Ukraine. Full stop. Trying to put the blame on other European nations, as well as Americans, is ridiculous.
When is the last time Russia was invaded before Ukraine did during this very war? China, Russia, and north Korea are in bed together.
World War II and they lost something like 20 or 30 million people' they are not in bed with China and have a real worry that China will try to take over their skimpily populated territory.
Well then we are both in agreement on this one. Russia lost 10 or 20% of its population in a time that is within the memory of people alive today. It would still be in their memory just like Pearl harbor and Normandy are in our memories today in the United states.
I gave a citation, Google is your friend. It has been well known for three or four years.
This war rests at the feet of Putin.
It is odd how Republicans are willing to give Vlad so much benefit of the doubt.
Link to your "citation"? And I'm talking about your claim that the US agreed that NATO wouldn't expand eastward.
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We are not in agreement. My point is that no one has invaded Russia in the past 80 years.
This is from Claude: "Gorbachev (1990): Declassified U.S., Soviet, German, French, and British documents show Secretary of State James Baker assured Gorbachev that if a united Germany stayed in NATO, there would be no extension of NATO's jurisdiction eastward. This wasn't just Baker — multiple Western leaders, including Bush, Kohl, Genscher, Thatcher, and Mitterrand, all conveyed similar assurances to Soviet leaders in 1990. Crucially, these assurances were never written into a formal treaty, though the record shows a clear pattern of communication from top Western officials creating a real expectation on the Soviet side."