Thanks for not locking this thread, at least not yet. I know it's been a little political, but hopefully not too personal. This was such a sad tragedy, and it really should be discussed. Thanks again.
This Orlando shooting is sickening...
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The simple and inconvenient solution to all of this is to start hurting people's feelings again. In today's ultra pc society, you can't take out your garbage without offending someone. That **** has to end, but, it won't until it's either too late or something monumentally tragic happens. no 17s need to be given about some random *******'s feelings and if you even butt dial a terrorists 2nd grade teacher's neighbor, your *** is on a plane with a one way ticket to the circle of untrustables.
To make you feel better? To conform to your arbitrary standard of what is and is not stupid? You think it's a stupid question. Question: Would it be a less stupid question if I asked it off a message board instead of on one? Doesn't it make sense to ask more than one person at a time if looking for multiple answers? You misread the question, called it stupid, generalized, and then told me to take it elsewhere instead of owning up to even one of those three rote behaviors.
It's my business what I own. Stay out of what's in my bedroom and I'll not bother with what's in yours.
1) Those regulations haven't always been in place and have met and exceeded in some cases current needs for them. You call them a privilege yet they require the same legal status (give 3 meaningless years on alcohol, which are the same as handguns) as people to require a gun. Guns are a privilege of law abiding citizens.
2) You don't know what kind of **** I've lived through with what kind of **** I've seen, so don't pretend to act like you know where I get my sources. It's statically proven to be more dangerous for a person with a legally protected right to own a gun to shoot at a burgler or someone wielding a gun. I completely understand your want to be able to control a situation, and this country has made it to where you have that right. But if someone in my apartment building tries to shoot an unarmed person trying to steal an Xbox and it hits my leg, just know I'm going to make sure the person sees me in court 1 or 2 or both ways. Responsibility of gun ownership seems to be a real problem in this country and the right to be kept off a registry is a reason why people who don't need guns in Chicago or elsewhere keep getting them. The people who don't use guns, like the Boston bombers, are paying for their crimes, by the way. One got shot in his face, which I'm very for.
3) I knew someone would bring up big cities. They're easy. I'm not going to get into an argument about 100000 issues that plague inner city America (unrepresentative law enforcement, education, systemic racism, underfunded and unqualified police departments).
4) I just stated why the NRA is so strong. It's a lobby run by the people who stand to make a profit from the product, criminal or non. Did you honestly believe Obama was going to come asking for your guns? They fear monger, and there are better gun advocacy groups you can subscribe to who aren't bankrolled by Smith & Wesson.
We're not going to agree. I've lived my life in Mississippi and 3 other major US cities without guns and I will continue to do so, but you have the right to own one. I suspect you've never been on a no-flight list, been hospitalized for mental disorders, bought a gun through backdoor channels, or beat your wife. But current NRA measures make it to where we can't have this discussion where it really matters, and I'm sorry, it needs to he had. California's open carry means the Supreme Court is going to hear it soon so I guess it finally won't matter.
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Come on... Seriously... Point me to a time where Phil Bryant has encouraged people to harm someone? Regardless of how much you don't like Bryant, he has not done anything near what Muslims leaders have done.
Moral equivalence always. They have to promote the bad (Islam) and tear down the good (Western Civ) to reach an equal viewpoint.
They find "judging" to be the worst of the worst. That's why immigrants from Somalia are "no different" than those from Canada or Korea. Because to say so is judging and we just can't have that. You can't judge the religion of this guy, he 'just happened' to be Muslim. ******* insanity that hopefully is ended 220 days from now.
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Can peaceful LBGTQ's condemn other LBGTQ's by using homophobic slurs? I'm embarrassed that you're embarrassed around your NYC buddies that Miss. actually cares about it's residents.
Did you ever consider that Phil Bryant "and his cronies" might be protecting his constituency from such a "pastor"? That's Austin, probably wouldn't happen in Miss. But one bad "cake" ruins the whole bakery.
http://ktla.com/2016/04/19/whole-fo...easing-surveillance-video-in-cake-slur-claim/
http://ktla.com/2016/05/17/whole-foods-anti-gay-lawsuit-dropped-after-apology/
Thanks for the contribution to stupid *** comments.
Although, defending one's self seems a reasonable right.
So in over regulated in some cases, but people still die due to it? How can that be? Again, if someone loses control due to speeding in your town and kills someone, should it then become a felony for everyone else to speed?
.
No. It's a right. It's not a privlidge. It's a right just like free speech, right to vote, right to peaceful assembly, right to protection from illegal search and seizure.
Driving is a privlidge. Not a right.
If the 2nd amendment it to be amended or "modernized" as some liberals put it.... What other amendment in the bill of rights is open for amendment in exchange by gun owners?
So you are the only person who's lived through anything? Sorry snowflake. I can't see what's going on in the real world in my mansion in the clouds sipping on fine wine. I've got some stories myself that would make a bar full of bikers sympathetic. But it's made me a better man and I don't try to use it to make a point.
And what are the statistics of unarmed individuals in concert halls in Paris and nightclubs in Orlando when a Islamic terrorist shows up?
Are they not severely restricted? How do they keep getting them? Do they not know there are laws?
And so are people who commit gun crimes. And I'm all for making punishment tougher on gun crimes.
And they have been ran for decades by people of the leftist persuasion. All that should be cleaned up any day now right? You know since its driven into the heads of the inner city residents that anyone else of some other persuasion doesn't have their best interest at heart.
thats rich. The NRA are fear mongers? Have you heard any speeches by our own president in response to anyone in opposition to his ideals? On climate change? How are the predictions on Gores movie about climate change coming along. Was that not fear mongering?
The NRA is not primarily funded by Smith and Wesson, glock, Remington, George bush, Toby Keith, or some other rich white republican. It is funded by people. It's funded by millions of people who cut a check to it. If the NRA is not as strong as you are led to believe. The reason gun restrictions don't get passed in congress is because people tell their reps they are out if they vote for it. Not because the NRA told them to vote against it.
My biggest beef that everyone plays absolutes. People think the fault is either 100% on Muslims or 100% on guns. You can barely have a logical argument any more.
As a card carrying lifetime member of the NRA, I do think we need stricter gun control laws. And not just on guns. Ammo and reloading equipment alike. And I also think...17. Muslim. Extremist.
I also think if you magically made all guns disappear in America, these **** eating rug pilots will just turn to car bombs. Orlando would have just been dirty bombed and looked like a scene from the Gaza Strip.
What really pisses me off is that our next president wants to harbor this scum just for votes. This "do whatever it takes to get max votes" mentality from our politicians is killing our country. I not a Trump fan, but at least he doesn't give 2 ***** about pandering for votes. He's going to be the guy he wants to be and you either ride with him or you don't.
As a card carrying lifetime member of the NRA, I do think we need stricter gun control laws. And not just on guns. Ammo and reloading equipment alike. And I also think...17. Muslim. Extremist.
I also think if you magically made all guns disappear in America, these **** eating rug pilots will just turn to car bombs. Orlando would have just been dirty bombed and looked like a scene from the Gaza Strip.
What really pisses me off is that our next president wants to harbor this scum just for votes. This "do whatever it takes to get max votes" mentality from our politicians is killing our country. I not a Trump fan, but at least he doesn't give 2 ***** about pandering for votes. He's going to be the guy he wants to be and you either ride with him or you don't.
The studies overwhelmingly show that more guns = less crime.
John Lott has well documented this. It's not a Muslim AND gun problem. What ended the situation in this and every other attack? Good guys with guns.
John Lott has well documented this. It's not a Muslim AND gun problem. What ended the situation in this and every other attack? Good guys with guns.
You're just a typical, can't-****, namby-pamby, Trent Lott Thad Cochran Ole Miss guy, who "talks" conservative, but when the rubber meets the road, are just a big-gubmint, small-minded, petty little tyrant who doesn't trust American citizens...especially to defend themselves.
How is an assault rifle, using the term under the federal law and not the military or common sense definition (sense those are more or less irrelevant as nobody is out there committing crimes with legally obtained automatic weapons in the U.S.; I'm not even aware of any crime with an illegally obtained automatic weapon in the U.s.) not a "regular gun"?
The fault doesn't matter until you can actually exert some semblance of control over either one. That's the insanity of it all. We are infighting and having the wrong argument. Westeros -- or USA?
What continues to get me is how many people don't have a clue about gun buying and selling. Go ahead and ban AR's, end their production, or whatever. This afternoon I'll walk to my neighbors and buy one of the 6 he has in his safe. Do these idiots think background checks are being done in the alleyway between the crack houses in Chicago? That's where criminals buy guns. Now this idiot in Orlando did buy his legally but if he wouldn't have been able to, he would've bought one some other way. The only thing the lock on your front door does is keep an honest man out. Same with gun control.
With the way you opened that post, I was not expecting you to advocate reducing restrictions on guns to be equivalent to those for cars and alcohol.
Respectfully disagree and here are a couple of items to consider ..
- The gunman, Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, was heard shouting "Allah Akbar" (“Allah is greater")
- FBI has tied the gunman to a radical imam that was just released from prison last year.
- Shooting took place during Ramadan, Islamic Holy month
- ISIS leadership in Raqqa has been urging attacks, in the name of Allah for the ‘caliphate in America’
- FBI believe that gunman had ‘leanings to radical Islamic terrorism.’
Changed your mind yet?
They`ve killed with guns, knives, machetes, airplanes, pressure cookers, pipe bombs, suicide bombers, car bombs, burned people alive with gasoline, thrown homosexuals off of tall buildings and God knows what else. Anyone using this incident to focus on gun control, no matter how well meaning they may be , at this point is part of the problem. Wake up folks.
No ****.....what rock has he been living under the last day?
The shooter called 911 and said he pledged allegiance to ISIS. ISIS is the most extreme form of radical Islamic terrorism. For 17 sake, it is so clear.
1) His 'allegiance' was deep enough that he dialed 911 .. and TOLD THEM that he "swore allegiance to the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi"
2) His 'allegiance' was deep enough to MURDER at last body count, 50 innocent civilians
3) His 'allegiance' was deep enough to DIE for his allegiance.
Think it was pretty deep, don't you?
"Islam – the God of Islam – requires you to die for him. My God, the god that I worship, he died for me. And he’s willing to save me and forgive me if I put my faith and trust in his son. But Islam, the Muslims want to emulate their prophet Mohammed. Mohammed raped, he murdered, he killed and so we’re seeing the followers of Islam emulate the prophet Mohammed."
Franklin Graham
Franklin Graham
And look at his father's message after the shooting:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando...ther-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/
Here is a great summation of the 2nd amendment where a butt-hurt Brit gets *****-slapped by the truth!
View attachment 4238
View attachment 4238
Interesting conversation good people.
If we want total security we'll have to give up some of our freedom. The only way to have total security is to live in a police state. And conversely, if we want total freedom we must be willing to surrender some security.
Would stricter gun control laws have prevented this from happening? Maybe. Stricter back ground checks would prevent some, but not all of these incidents from happening. Would everyone carrying a gun have prevented this? Maybe. Once again it would stop some but not all and in the process open up the door to collateral casualties from folks that have no business, or more importantly, proper training in hand gun use.
There are no easy answers to this conundrum. There are no easy fixes. If stricter back ground checks are called for then we need to make what we have in place NOW work before we add to it. And if everyone wants to pack a piece then they should be properly trained in the use of said piece.
While gun ownership is a RIGHT under the constitution one must remember that with these rights come responsibility and also some restrictions. You can't holler "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater and be protected under freedom of speech. You also may not slander or libel someone in print and hide behind 'Freedom of the Press' So as you see our RIGHTS do contain restrictions on them.
The problem here and now with our political system is both sides have drawn a line in the sand and both stubbornly refuse any sort of compromise with the other which is where we, as a country, should be working for. We should demand of our elected officials that they make decisions on what is best for the majority of their constituents and not what some lobbyist suggest. We need to rescue our government from those who have bought it and return it to serving us, the average citizen.
I'm off to work. Have a pleasant day SPS.
If we want total security we'll have to give up some of our freedom. The only way to have total security is to live in a police state. And conversely, if we want total freedom we must be willing to surrender some security.
Would stricter gun control laws have prevented this from happening? Maybe. Stricter back ground checks would prevent some, but not all of these incidents from happening. Would everyone carrying a gun have prevented this? Maybe. Once again it would stop some but not all and in the process open up the door to collateral casualties from folks that have no business, or more importantly, proper training in hand gun use.
There are no easy answers to this conundrum. There are no easy fixes. If stricter back ground checks are called for then we need to make what we have in place NOW work before we add to it. And if everyone wants to pack a piece then they should be properly trained in the use of said piece.
While gun ownership is a RIGHT under the constitution one must remember that with these rights come responsibility and also some restrictions. You can't holler "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater and be protected under freedom of speech. You also may not slander or libel someone in print and hide behind 'Freedom of the Press' So as you see our RIGHTS do contain restrictions on them.
The problem here and now with our political system is both sides have drawn a line in the sand and both stubbornly refuse any sort of compromise with the other which is where we, as a country, should be working for. We should demand of our elected officials that they make decisions on what is best for the majority of their constituents and not what some lobbyist suggest. We need to rescue our government from those who have bought it and return it to serving us, the average citizen.
I'm off to work. Have a pleasant day SPS.
The call came from the top to stand down on this guy. That is just one problem.
We have given up enough freedom already with the police state we live in today, the patriot act and civil asset forfeiture.
They knew about this guy. They knew about his radical Imam saying kill gays. They knew about his dad's videos and past. He may have other family members who work for DHS. This was not a case of needing more police power, this was a case of sabatoge by people in charge.
We have given up enough freedom already with the police state we live in today, the patriot act and civil asset forfeiture.
They knew about this guy. They knew about his radical Imam saying kill gays. They knew about his dad's videos and past. He may have other family members who work for DHS. This was not a case of needing more police power, this was a case of sabatoge by people in charge.
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My biggest beef is that Islam is violent by definition in the Quran. It's quite simple to read and see. The truth is that Islamists don't do a very good job following their holy book (hence they are mostly peaceful) which, by the way is the same issue that Christians have in that they don't do a good job of following the Bible (hence they often don't treat people in the loving manner that Christ did). I guess the term radical is OK in that it describes the ones who actually take Islam to heart, however it is misleading if interpreted to mean that they are acting out of the nature of Islam.
+1
You can get Law Abiding people to all agree to rid themselves of Guns---Yea! No more guns!
But you will NEVER be able to get Lawless / Criminal Lifestyle people to agree to rid themselves of their Guns.
As long as Bad guys have Guns, Good Guys (Cops AND Citizens) need to have Guns too. If not, then the Good Guys (Citizens) will fair just as well as the Bow & Arrow Native Americans did against the Henry Repeating Rifle White Settlers---which is to say Massacred.
You can get Law Abiding people to all agree to rid themselves of Guns---Yea! No more guns!
But you will NEVER be able to get Lawless / Criminal Lifestyle people to agree to rid themselves of their Guns.
As long as Bad guys have Guns, Good Guys (Cops AND Citizens) need to have Guns too. If not, then the Good Guys (Citizens) will fair just as well as the Bow & Arrow Native Americans did against the Henry Repeating Rifle White Settlers---which is to say Massacred.
He did exchange Fire...
With an off duty cop that was working security. not sure what happened to the cio
With an off duty cop that was working security. not sure what happened to the cio
One thing that always gets me is
When 50 people die at a time the whole country stops. It starts throwing mud on each other. We start praying and take time for interspection. Yet since this post started there have been at least 80 murders in this country. They'll be almost 50 tomorrow and almost 50 the next day. Not necessarily by guns, not necessarily by terrorists. Some old, some young, some gay, some straight, some republican, some democrat, but all American. We made sweeping changes in our foreign policy, invested over a trillion dollars in two wars because 3000 Americans were taken away from us on Sept. 11th by some shitheads that are burning in hell. Yet since that day we have lost close to a quarter million people to murder. I'm not scared of Islamic Extremists, to be perfectly honest I'm not scared of much. But I know statistically if I meet my maker via violence it's not going to be an act of terrorism.
When 50 people die at a time the whole country stops. It starts throwing mud on each other. We start praying and take time for interspection. Yet since this post started there have been at least 80 murders in this country. They'll be almost 50 tomorrow and almost 50 the next day. Not necessarily by guns, not necessarily by terrorists. Some old, some young, some gay, some straight, some republican, some democrat, but all American. We made sweeping changes in our foreign policy, invested over a trillion dollars in two wars because 3000 Americans were taken away from us on Sept. 11th by some shitheads that are burning in hell. Yet since that day we have lost close to a quarter million people to murder. I'm not scared of Islamic Extremists, to be perfectly honest I'm not scared of much. But I know statistically if I meet my maker via violence it's not going to be an act of terrorism.
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