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This already is Cal's 2nd best team IMO

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mjj_2K

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Jul 11, 2010
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WildMoon said:
2010 is probably the most overrated team on this board.
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It really is.

That team has a pretty bizarre legacy. They were monstrously talented, and they were capable of stretches of dominance that were awe-inspiring. They won a ton of games while losing only 3 times. They turned the program around instantaneously. But as a functional basketball team, they had all kinds of problems.

That team was really, really, really lucky to go 35-3. It's to their credit that they did, and maybe a testament to how their talent could overcome their deficiencies, but you aren't going to have many seasons where your team goes 8-0 in games decided by 5 points or less or in OT. And 3 of those wins were damn near miraculous- Stanford, and both games against Mississippi St.
 
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ubtrapper_rivals103836

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Jan 14, 2014
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caneintally said:
I know the 38-1 team but the SEC was not very good then. Now we are the best conference or tied for it . Obviously 2012 is the best but this team is just so damn deep and balanced and we have better guards then the 38-1 team did.
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I agree. Our guards are on another level compared to the 15' guards. The Harrisons we're about as disappointing as any in the Cal era besides Harrow.
 
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Jkwo_rivals113955

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The superstar factor of '10 and the excitement of being relevant again makes it impossible for people to evaluate them objectively.

If you look at the numbers, '17 and '10 were similar in quality - people who put '10 with '12 and '15 are going 100% based on emotion. The numbers don't allow them to be nearly in the same category. They had some narrow wins against some crap teams and did not smack around ranked teams like '12, '15, or '19 (15 did it by silly margins).

This team is better than '10.
 
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Jkwo_rivals113955

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Eight_Banners said:
This team is better than 2015's first 5

An. Harrison < A. Hagan's
Aa. Harrison < T. Herron
T. Lyles = K. Johnson
WCS < P. J. Washington
KAT > R. Travis

2014-15 Bench:
Ulis
Booker
Hawkins
M. Lee
D. Johnson
D. Willis
A. Poythress (before injury)

2018-19 Bench:
I. Quickly
N. Richards
J. Baker
E.J. Montgomery


That 2014-15 is the most talented roster from top to bottom ever. They just hit a great offensive juggernaut, paired with awful officiating and an off night for Cal, or they would have gone undefeated.

That's Cal's best team even without a title.
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Yeah. Anybody just comparing starting fives with '15 is missing the point.

They were without question a top 20 team of all time, but it wasn't because of starting five. It was because of length and because they were just as dangerous at minute 40 as minute 1.
 
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HenryMuto

HenryMuto

Heisman
Mar 31, 2012
20,581
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2012 and 2015 are clearly better. Probably 2010 as well. 2017 maybe as well.
 
K

Kats23

All-American
Nov 21, 2007
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Not talent wise but as far as enjoyable this one is up there. I will always have a special place in my heart for the 2010 team and I of course loved watching the 2012 title team but this is the most fun I’ve had watching a UK team since then.
 
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BlueEmpire

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Mar 26, 2009
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I dont know about second best, but its hard to say this isn’t one of his more complete teams across the board. This team is in fact a serious threat to win the NCAAT. Teams should be concerned. This isn’t even the team that started the season. They’re monsters.
 
T

turkeywildturkey

All-Conference
Oct 23, 2003
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caneintally said:
I know the 38-1 team but the SEC was not very good then. Now we are the best conference or tied for it . Obviously 2012 is the best but this team is just so damn deep and balanced and we have better guards then the 38-1 team did.
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I think you’d better see how this team finishes up before making that call. There’s been some really good teams in Cal’s tenure here.
 
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$Z71$

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Nov 14, 2002
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Everyone saying 2017 was better than this team is insane. 2015, 2012 and probably 2010 I agree with. This team is better than 2017 though.

Compare the lineups side by side. 2017 was shallow and weak on D. Offensive juggernaut yes, but had holes that this team doesn’t.
 
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BourbonBalz

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It’s yet to be determined where this team will rank among Cal’s UK teams. However, it isn’t a better team than 2009-2010, 2011-2012, or 2014-2015, even if it wins the title. It can be a more accomplished team than two of those, but even then it isn’t better IMO. Those were three great teams.
 
Jdhays21

Jdhays21

Heisman
Jan 16, 2013
16,532
23,873
108
Whole lot of people here that only remember the WVU game in 2010. That team went 35-3 and were 6-1 vs ranked teams in the regular season. Won the SEC regular season and tournament. Then lost in the elite 8 on an overall bizarre night. A starting lineup of Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson, Cousins, and a SF(Dodson, Harris, Liggins, Miller).
 
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STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
64,878
57,614
98
Bluegrassking said:
In the Final Four game it was substantially about finding Ulis or Booker and targeting them. Especially Booker, it's like my entire memory track of the game is KAT scoring at will and UW forcing switches until Dekker was guarded by Booker and him feasting.
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Don’t get me wrong I haven’t forgotten about Booker being burnt defensively time and time again in the Wisky game. But to say that backcourt was subpar? Please. I know you didn’t say that but for crying out loud that’s outrageous.
 
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sambowieshin_rivals

Heisman
Nov 27, 2009
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STL_Cat said:
The Harrisons, + Ulis & Booker = subpar guard play.

That’s a hot take.
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The Harrisons were big/strong but not particularly quick, were often beat off the dribble by smaller/quicker guards, turned the ball over a lot and shot poorly (sub 38 percent) other than Aaron's amazing shooting in the post season. Ulis and Booker were freshmen on that team and played like it often. Booker was very streaky/played zero defense and Ulis wasn't the Ulis we think of until his sophomore year.
I would take Wall, Knight, Teague, Gilgeous-Alexander, Fox and Hagans over Andrew Harrison if I were choosing my pick up team's point guard as an example.
 
S

STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
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sambowieshin said:
The Harrisons were big/strong but not particularly quick, were often beat off the dribble by smaller/quicker guards, turned the ball over a lot and shot poorly (sub 38 percent) other than Aaron's amazing shooting in the post season. Ulis and Booker were freshmen on that team and played like it often. Booker was very streaky/played zero defense and Ulis wasn't the Ulis we think of until his sophomore year.
I would take Wall, Knight, Teague, Gilgeous-Alexander, Fox and Hagans over Andrew Harrison if I were choosing my pick up team's point guard as an example.
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Saying you’d take a bunch of All-Americans over a couple guys doesn’t make those guys subpar. The Harrisons helped lead the Cats to back to back final fours.
 
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CatsIndy2010

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Jan 27, 2010
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I think its a third best team but...there are multiple ways for this team to win. Meaning, we have enough great players to make a run in the tourney.
 
S

STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
64,878
57,614
98
Bottom line is this team can pass the 15 team only one way: winning the national championship. Which would catapult them to #2. Until they do that, you’re completely batshit crazy to put them ahead of the 14-15 team.
 
D

deep3

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May 15, 2002
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caneintally said:
I know the 38-1 team but the SEC was not very good then. Now we are the best conference or tied for it . Obviously 2012 is the best but this team is just so damn deep and balanced and we have better guards then the 38-1 team did.
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Completely agree
 
1

1991greywildcat

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Oct 12, 2014
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sambowieshin said:
The Harrisons were big/strong but not particularly quick, were often beat off the dribble by smaller/quicker guards, turned the ball over a lot and shot poorly (sub 38 percent) other than Aaron's amazing shooting in the post season. Ulis and Booker were freshmen on that team and played like it often. Booker was very streaky/played zero defense and Ulis wasn't the Ulis we think of until his sophomore year.
I would take Wall, Knight, Teague, Gilgeous-Alexander, Fox and Hagans over Andrew Harrison if I were choosing my pick up team's point guard as an example.
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You say that, but Harrison probably shuts any of them down in college outside of Wall and Fox.. Hagens and Teague is definitely not better college players than Harrison, i have a problem even calling SGA better in college at this point..
 
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T

The_Answer1313_rivals

Heisman
May 27, 2007
31,887
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$Z71$ said:
Everyone saying 2017 was better than this team is insane. 2015, 2012 and probably 2010 I agree with. This team is better than 2017 though.

Compare the lineups side by side. 2017 was shallow and weak on D. Offensive juggernaut yes, but had holes that this team doesn’t.
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I think you could make an argument either for 17 or this year.

I mean that team was one possession away from a final four.

And actually in terms of off def efficiency
this team 9th/9th
2017 12th/7th

Not a whole lot of difference IMO
 
P

Pete391

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Feb 10, 2018
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CatfanMike47 said:
As a whole yes it’s close to being second! Talent wise no! If they get to the championship game or win a title then they’ll be his second best!
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They will never be the 2nd best team.....The best team doesnt always win the tourney...they may achieve more, than the 2015 team but they will never be better than that team...The 15 team went 38-0 before losing in the final four when they shouldnt have.....That team would eat this teams lunch....
 
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26MichaelUK

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Feb 14, 2013
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$Z71$ said:
Everyone saying 2017 was better than this team is insane. 2015, 2012 and probably 2010 I agree with. This team is better than 2017 though.

Compare the lineups side by side. 2017 was shallow and weak on D. Offensive juggernaut yes, but had holes that this team doesn’t.
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Nope. 2017 had a top 10 defense and one of the most athletic and explosive offenses ever at UK. I hate how people dismiss how good that team was. We had the longest winning streak going into the tournament of all 68 teams. We had to play 3 top 10 Ken Pom teams just to make a final four. We were robbed in the Carolina game. I have no doubt we win the championship if not for getting screwed over.
 
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26MichaelUK

All-American
Feb 14, 2013
36,538
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I'm not surprised to see people crapping on the Harrison twins. I implore you people that think this to go back and watch that 2015 team play. You'll realize how good they were. They were two of the most clutch players ever at UK and were dogs on the court.

Anyways, even if this team wins a title it's not better than 12, 15, 10, and 17. It could move ahead of 17 if it wins a title. People are downplaying 2010 but they would absolutely beat this years team. Reid, as tough as he is would get worked by Cousins. Patterson and PJ would be interesting. Wall and Bledsoe vs Hagans and Herro? I know who I'm taking. Miller vs Johnson? C'mon now.

The great thing is is that it doesn't matter. All this years team has to do is get to a final four and possibly win a title and they will be added to our great teams. We have great chemistry and this team has a special vibe to me.
 
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Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,715
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caneintally said:
I know the 38-1 team but the SEC was not very good then. Now we are the best conference or tied for it . Obviously 2012 is the best but this team is just so damn deep and balanced and we have better guards then the 38-1 team did.
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So you think Hagans, Herro, Quickley, and Baker are better than Booker, Ulis, and the Harrison twins......[jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile]
 
J

Jkwo_rivals113955

All-American
Apr 6, 2007
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#1Wildcatfan4life said:
It’s yet to be determined where this team will rank among Cal’s UK teams. However, it isn’t a better team than 2009-2010, 2011-2012, or 2014-2015, even if it wins the title. It can be a more accomplished team than two of those, but even then it isn’t better IMO. Those were three great teams.
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♫One of these things is not like the other♫
Jdhays21 said:
Whole lot of people here that only remember the WVU game in 2010. That team went 35-3 and were 6-1 vs ranked teams in the regular season. Won the SEC regular season and tournament. Then lost in the elite 8 on an overall bizarre night. A starting lineup of Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson, Cousins, and a SF(Dodson, Harris, Liggins, Miller).
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Whole lot of people here just rattle off names of superstars without remembering how much more badly '12 and '15 demolished their opponents. Hint: it's not close.

Also, the 2010 season was a down year overall. Even Duke fans regard that team as their '98 Kentucky (their weak modern championship) and the other best team besides UK was one of those Kansas teams that lost to a mid major in the first weekend. There were no great teams that season.
DocLockdown said:
Wait, what???? Based on what?
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The numbers.
RAB86 said:
Anyone who says '10 was overrated or not in the top 3 is a fool.
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The numbers, you dunce.

I already told you guys the order, and since I'm always right, you'd think that would be enough, but I thought I'd go consult with my buddies Ken Pomeroy and Jeffrey Reginald Sagarin XIV, esq.

And of the teams we've been discussing, exactly as I predicted, here is the order:
(year)
(kenpom)
(sagarin)

1. 2015
36.91
99.19

(big drop off)

2. 2012
32.59
95.72

(big drop off)

3. 2017
27.72
92.88 (higher sag)

or

3. 2019 (they still have a lot of room to improve, since the other teams all enjoyed the full stats boost that Cal produces in March)
28.97 (higher kenpom)
92.35

5. 2010
26.54
92.35


One more time for the deaf guys in the back - you have rosy memories of '2010 because they pulled us out of our biggest slump since Pitino's arrival and because they had the most star power of any team in CBB in the decade prior.

But if you actually go back and look at the game outcomes and compare them to '12 or '15, you are a basketball ignoramus.

Give me a 2010 accomplishment that was 1/4 as impressive as '15 holding UCLA to 7 in an entire half. Or how about defeating top 10 Kansas by 32?

Get serious.
 
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G

Graced 1

Junior
Sep 18, 2017
299
336
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Knew the OP would get cut to shreds by our sanctimonious fans, but his post is not ridiculous
 
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