So if we bring up the fact that Renee Good was obstructing an Ice operation by using her vehicle to block traffic we’re “excusing” her death? Or are we merely disputing your assertion that she was protesting peacefully?
The New Lounge
- Thread starter hpnole
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Yes you are. Because you refuse to use your eyes, and see the reality in front of you. You can say you don’t use left wing media, but your views say you do.
A lot of coulds and woulds. When’s all the sh- gonna hit the fan? Weren’t these same folks predicting a major recession by now due to Trump’s tariffs?
Trump’s deportations are causing farm labor issues. He hasn’t presented a viable, long-term solution. - Investigate Midwest
This story is is supported by funding from the Chicago Region Food Systems Fund. President Trump’s deportation of more than half a million people, along with his ending of several programs that allowed immigrants to work in the country legally, has created labor issues across the agriculture...investigatemidwest.org
Dairy farms are vulnerable to Trump's mass deportation threats. The industry hopes to get a pass
People without legal status are a key part of the dairy industry's workforce. Some producers hope their economic contribution will protect farms from ICE raids and may open the conversation around policy reform.www.kcur.org
Mass Deportations Are Starting to Hurt Agriculture, Analysis Says
Labor statistics and food prices now show early signs of negative economic impact, according to a new report.civileats.com
How Mass Deportations Could Gut the US Food System | Atmos
With 40% of the American agricultural workforce undocumented, farmworkers prepare to resist Trump’s calls for an immigration crackdown.atmos.earth
Deportations are set to explode — a huge worry for farmers already facing a labor shortage
American agriculture relies on foreign workers, and that workforce is already stretched thin. With Trump’s immigration crackdown set to expand next year, some farmers fear that workers will be even harder to find.www.wpr.org
Mass Deportation of Unauthorized Immigrants: Fiscal and Economic Effects | Penn Wharton Budget Model
It is well known that mass deportation reduces aggregate economic variables like GDP due to scale effects. We project that deportation also reduces wages of high-skill workers, compromising 63% of workers. Still, authorized low-skilled workers can see their wages increase but only if the...budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu
You're moving the goalposts. First it was paid protesters, now it's funding behind the organization of protests.
I don't use my eyes, he says in a discussion involving the high profile murder of 2 US citizens that were caught on camera.
As I told you, ICE laid off those particular industries because of the economic damage.
Help me connect some dots. Why are we on this digression? Is it because you said Jose Huerta Chuma should be deported despite not being any of the things you were promised would be the focus of deportations?
I’m always honest with you. Neither should be dead, but they aren’t fully innocent. ICE messed up both times they had run ins with Pretti. He should have been locked up when he acted like a fool the first protest.
This isn’t hard to understand. You just choose to only see things through your tinted glasses.
They were innocent of the only thing that matters. No one is required to be innocent of everything in order to not be murdered by govt thugs.
Their deaths shouldn’t have happened. iCE royally messed up, and now two citizens are dead.
You’re expecting ICE to be perfect, when they are surrounded by idiots. Not just protestors protesting from a safe distance. Idiots who choose to become confrontational, and breaking the law.
These protests are making things worse. They are thugs too.
Talk about moving the goalposts. They’ve gone in a day from being peaceful protesters to being “well they’re innocent of the only thing that matters”.
From “no one’s being paid” to “ well, they may be paid but they agree with the rest of the protesters anyway so I was right”
Yes, focus as in priority. A politician not fulfilling his campaign promises? Shocking.
As painful as it is for the families involved, some illegal aliens without a violent history will be swept up. Of course, Mr Chuma was arrested for domestic violence. Surely you’re aware of why domestic violence cases don’t make it to court in the vast majority of cases? So let’s put down the violin and join the real world, shall we?
Large numbers of deportations for violent and nonviolent illegals serve as a deterrent for future large immigration waves. That’s why previous Presidents deported a sh- ton of people, well until Biden anyway.
I didn’t give that particular post the careful scrutiny it deserved. I misunderstood your use of the expression ‘laid off’ to be related to unemployment as opposed to Ice not focusing on those particular industries for enforcement. My apologies.
Nope. There's greater responsibility when it's LEO/deputized fake-LEO. The authority we grant them holds them to a higher standard.
Confrontational idiots breaking what law? Anything short of others' safety and that's a moot point.
Congratulations on making it to your 3rd sentence before being wrong. That's a record.
Huh. So now you're just making up things and claiming that's what I said. No different from @Mac9192 and @dukesince91 . I'd given you more credit than that.
An expunged 7-yr-old plea deal was the excuse for the context in which they murdered Alex Pretti.
Let’s say the police have a search warrant at an apartment. Several of the neighbors try to stop them from entering, or slow them down.
Are they breaking the law?
Likely, yes. There is some gray area. A landlord walking slowly and fumbling through the keys may be a deliberate delay technique, but highly unlikely you could arrest they/them for it.
There is no gray area over the fact that even the most egregious interference does not warrant the use of deadly force until it threatens physical harm.
A lot of LEO agencies have policies about not engaging in high-speed pursuits. Many jurisdictions are moving toward handling things as illegal but non-criminal, the way speeding tickets are handled, because the offense doesn't rise to the seriousness of arresting someone. The risk isn't worth it. At some point, LEO and pretend-LEO like ICE should choose deescalation at the cost of the mission. It's not the military.
The legitimacy of the warrant is another factor. It should be from a judge, not an internal DHS memo. ICE has also been granted the unconstitutional authority to enter homes without warrants. Do you think that's acceptable?
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From the court order demanding the release of 5-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos and his father from ICE custody, which finally happened yesterday: “Observing human behavior confirms that for some among us, the perfidious lust for unbridled power and the imposition of cruelty in its quest know no bounds and are bereft of human decency. And the rule of law be damned.”
(I had to look up what "perfidious" means: It's from Latin, meaning "through broken faith," treacherous.)
This is the history book, gentlemen. This is the legacy that the man you helped elect as our President will carry with him. This is what you enabled. This is what you support every time you pretend moral issues are legal issues and dismiss this cruelty as justified b/c of undocumented status. This is how history will remember y'all.
(I had to look up what "perfidious" means: It's from Latin, meaning "through broken faith," treacherous.)
This is the history book, gentlemen. This is the legacy that the man you helped elect as our President will carry with him. This is what you enabled. This is what you support every time you pretend moral issues are legal issues and dismiss this cruelty as justified b/c of undocumented status. This is how history will remember y'all.
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It may not, and yes, there are gray areas. But the ICE agents are carrying out orders. It’s not their fault they are at a certain location.
It’s also not acceptable behavior for someone to drive their vehicle into or near a gathering of the agents, or people opposing them trying to enter the hotel where the agents are staying.
At face value, okay, but if agents are in the street to begin with, there will be cars there. Renee Good did not drive into anyone. Disgraced ex-ICE agent Jonathan Ross deliberately positioned himself in harm's way to create a scenario where he could get away with murdering her. Her wheels were turned away from him when she began moving forward. At least one bullet went through the driver's side window.
"Carrying out orders" was the Nuremberg defense.
Do you think it's acceptable for ICE to enter homes without warrants?
It wouldn’t be. But do you think the agents are doing this on their own, or from orders from above?
is it legal to be in the country illegally?
Mistakes are being made, and I wish they weren’t. But you can’t tell me many criminal illegals haven’t been rounded up.
So yeah, but...
Of course.
You like the results so you are willing to compromise principle and the Constitution again and again. It's a slide toward fascism and you're okay with it.
What you’re saying is you have a major problem with the mistakes ICE has made, but you accept the things like the drugs, criminal acts… that have been brought here by the many illegals.So yeah, but...
Of course.
You like the results so you are willing to compromise principle and the Constitution again and again. It's a slide toward fascism and you're okay with it.
These things have been going on for years. You call yourself compassionate. I call it ignorance.
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"What you're saying," he says, going on to attribute to me something I never said, then calls me ignorant. The irony.
Again, mac, that's a strawman. You have no rebuttal to the fact that you are willing to accept fascism, so you pretend it's about something else you made up.
Datt, Datt, Datt. You love going in circles, trying to get someone in "gotcha" moments. I have been perfectly clear. Has ICE made mistakes? Yes. Should agents be held accountable when they make them? Again, yes. But this is where I'm fair minded, you are delusional. So have many of the protesters. Many. They put the agents in awful situations, and should be arrested, and held accountable.
You haven't denounced ANYTHING done by them. Your focus is ONLY on the officers. Come back with your usual gibberish though. We all see through it, and see you for who you really are.
If LEO pulls someone over for speeding and shoots them, I'm not gonna focus on the speeding. It's completely irrelevant at that point.
The only reason to note the behavior of Geraldo Lunas Campos, Luis Gustavo Núñez Cáceres, Luis Beltrán Yáñez-Cruz, Parady La, Víctor Manuel Díaz, Heber Sánchez Domínguez, Renee Good, and Alex Pretti is if it justified the use of deadly force against them. It did not. Not a single one of them. You are focused on that in order to justify their deaths. It's why you've gone from paranoid and distrustful of the govt to being an apologist for them.
This isn't about the advice I give my grown kids about how to keep themselves safe if they attend any protests. It's about the immoral and illegal actions of the all-empowered govt authorities.
If the person pulled over gets out of their vehicle, and gets in the face of the officer, they need to be planted on the ground.
You’re still somehow not even commenting on any action expect what has (or may) been done by law enforcement.
No one should die. But don’t pretend many of the protesters are innocent.
Adding context to any police encounter that goes bad= “justifying murder”.
Haven’t you figured it out yet? One side is good and one side is evil. Politics is a religion to these folks, complete with the necessary sacred cows and villains. Shades of gray not welcome here.
This is why Datt keeps pretending we’re justifying or excusing murder, when we question anything related to the Left’s narrative. Not only does he get to avoid a real debate about these cases point by point, it also gives him an imaginary moral high ground when he simply ignores any of our comments that don’t conform to his preexisting narrative.
He decided from the outset that we were “sheep” and would claim the murders were justified. When we repeatedly stated that the deaths did not appear to be good shootings and an investigation should be conducted by an outside party, he used our pushback that these were not peaceful protests as evidence that we claimed the shootings were justified.
Basically he set the rules of debate as follows: Agree with every part of my narrative or I will call you a fascist and “ on the wrong side of history”.
You see it all the time. Against bio men in women’s sports? Transphobe.
Against setasides and quotas in hiring/ admissions? Racist.
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Was deadly force used against Parady La? I thought he died of an overdose or heroin withdrawals. Do you know any of the names of the 56 who died in Ice custody when Obama was President? If not why not? But you can just rattle these names off can’t you? Manipulated by the media much?
Wrong again. Investigation underway. Very premature to claim “deadly force” was used.
abcnews.go.com
Nicaraguan man's death at troubled Texas detention camp was reported as a suicide, 911 records show
A 911 call shows that a Nicaraguan man who died at a Texas detention camp days after he was detained by immigration authorities in Minneapolis is suspected of dying by suicide
abcnews.go.com
How can Datt denounce anything that the protestors are doing. Remember they’re just be thoughtful and strategic.
Plausible deniability only gets you so far. Callous detention is close enough. It's like how people sometimes get prosecuted for cyberbullying after a suicide.Wrong again. Investigation underway. Very premature to claim “deadly force” was used.
Nicaraguan man's death at troubled Texas detention camp was reported as a suicide, 911 records show
A 911 call shows that a Nicaraguan man who died at a Texas detention camp days after he was detained by immigration authorities in Minneapolis is suspected of dying by suicide
You're splitting hairs, picking out a single example and nitpicking my phrasing. And you just looked up how many people died in detention over President Obama's 8 years in office. I've already addressed how due process and rule of law was respected far more under the Obama administration.
I keep asking what this broad "Left's Narrative" is. And you bring it up in a post complaining about my use of a broad brush. Irony much?
I'm on record breaking rank just like you've acknowledged having criticism of Netanyahu within your inner circle. To wit, the Raleigh protest I marshaled last spring wherein the whole "big tent" Left got jumbled up and pro-Palestinian speakers were arguably antisemitic.
Asked and answered.How can Datt denounce anything that the protestors are doing. Remember they’re just be thoughtful and strategic.
I've explained repeatedly and in different ways how it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
So... Obamas as apes... is it racist? Or is bringing up racism racist?
This is who and what you voted for. We've been telling y'all this since 2015. Now you're so invested and so prideful you can't acknowledge it. Have fun waltzing while the ship sinks.
This is who and what you voted for. We've been telling y'all this since 2015. Now you're so invested and so prideful you can't acknowledge it. Have fun waltzing while the ship sinks.