Shrine Bowl Discussion

[RalphMachio99]

Here is what I would love to see for NC going forward (obviously just my opinion):

-Combines continue, but don't allow coaching staff total control because we have seen in some years how that can go. I remember a few years like this when a group and HC were brazen enough to not care what anyone thought and did what they wanted no matter the appearance.
-Allow each position coach 2 choices that have been narrowed down by an independent group (whatever - this group could be a rotating group of HCs around the state that aren't coaching in the game....so I'm not taking it out of the coaches hands, I'm making sure the right choices are available to be selected). Allow each coordinator the ability to pick 5-6 picks. Allow HC the ability to pick 7-8 picks. That's over half the picks for NC, and the remaining portion (13-15) would be voted on by that same coaching group that narrowed down the best talent in the state to fill in the gaps. I feel like there needs to be a check and balance in this system.
-Everyone knows All Star games are watered down by what you can do X and O wise. We also know there is limited amts. you can do in a week of practice. With all that well known:

-You have to go with a traditional offense. Every player (no matter the system) understands play action. They understand the threat of 50/50 pass/run.
-Also, pretty please coaches- take a real QB. The system guys get enough recognition in the paper whether deserved or not. I'm not saying take every d1 prospect....they're not always the best players. But, take a QB who can legitimately throw and run. Not a runner who has some passing yardage in a weak conference.
-Likewise, don't take a RB who has a lot of hype but maybe hasn't played anybody. There were several 'hype' picks on either side of the ball chosen because some colleges offered them. Shaun Wilson was a CB on last year's team for goodness sakes. He lead DUke in rushing this year in many categories. How can a group of HS experts miss on that? Please don't say because they had the other one who went 15 minutes away from Durham to play, because then I will question how good at talent recognition that group might be.

I know it's a hard process, but some years (including this one) just seem blatantly wrong. I didn't mind the offense this year and the idea behind it...but that doesn't mean you have 1 legit down the field receiving threat on the edge. Is that stubborness or did that group really have no idea what a legitimate receiver looks like/plays like because that isn't their cup of tea? Has to be some oversight to avoid these situations and other situations where a guy gets pushed because a shcool hasn't had anyone sent lately and they want to see their helmet on the sidelines. We have to be past that in order to compete.

 

[Otis1144]

I haven't tried searching on it but how does SC pick their kids?

 

[btango]

Originally posted by Otis4411:
I haven't tried searching on it but how does SC pick their kids?

They followed NC with the combines. Coaches pick the players. They have the same complaints but with 200 schools and a tighter state geographically I think selecting players is a little easier there.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Definitely easier to pick in SC.
Several of the biggest schools are also some of the state's best football programs, and everyone on campus and in the county knows who the best on each team are down there. What do they have half the population of NC? So, perctnage wise they produce a lot of college athletes (even NFLers), but NC has plenty and it's harder to find those needles sometimes.
Geographically NC is tough b/c diamonds can be lost.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Stan, I agree 100% with them on that.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Ralph, I agree with most of what you say, but if I was the HC of a team I would always want to pick the best players for my offensive system and I know the DC would feel the same way.

 

[artvandelay]

doesn't matter how big the schools are they can only pick 2 per school

 

[RalphMachio99]

Rams,
I agree...I would too. But I would also bring my personal bias and prejudices into the picture as we all would. That one coach or two that beat you over and over, or the one that ribbed you too much at the clinic or the one you just can't stand....his kid might get left off if it comes down to what I say his kid vs. another.

That's all I'm talking about. I understand character issues, and this and that. BUt, I also remember a well known and liked coach from SC leaving two players off for character issues reasons....but that was a mask for something else. So, that happens too.

I just like the idea of making sure the best play in the game every year; and we are talking red apples to green as far as matching up for specific systems. WR position is just that. Running RB is that. A throwing QB is just that. A run stopping LB is just that. A DB that can cover, a safety that can cover space and hit and a DT that can clog and pressure are just that. I don't think it gets too technical from a broadview. We don't have 100 DTs that we can choose from and there be no dropoff. There are a top 7-10 at each position each year in NC, and that number is pretty easy to get down to. From there.....the coaches can have some say....but this way (the gatekeeper method) I would hope some of the homer picks wouldn't make it to even draw consideration for making the team.
This post was edited on 12/29 4:07 PM by RalphMachio99

 

[Owen Stampede]

Well there are no character issues on Jager Gardner. Kids nose is clean and he does and says all the right things. Great teammate. Never takes credit always gives it to others and he works extremely hard. I don't know what more you would want. Sounds suspect to me. I question that coach's character talking about the kids like that.

This post was edited on 12/29 5:26 PM by owen98

 

[btango]

Originally posted by owen98:
Well there are no character issues on Jager Gardner. Kids nose is clean and he does and says all the right things. Great teammate. Never takes credit always gives it to others and he works extremely hard. I don't know what more you would want. Sounds suspect to me. I question that coach's character talking about the kids like that.

This post was edited on 12/29 5:26 PM by owen98

The staff was more speed oriented and his numbers at the combine were not as impressive as many others. That is my take why he did not make the team. I may be wrong but everything the coaches said was speed was more important than size at receiver and DB. Look at the selections and that appears to be true. The coaches watched tape of the last five Shrine Bowls and determined some or what they wanted to do and were looking at from the film of those games.

The coach did not specifically point out any players so how can you call his character into question. The head coach made the same statement on the internet video broadcast of the team selections. What stain wrote is absolutely correct. They looked at character and how the players worked and acted at the combine and the invitational combine. They also called coaches that they personally knew who they felt would give them an honest opinion on the players from their area. The top guys got the regular measurables combine and then an intense skills and competition combine by invitation.

One of the players that many slagged for being selected was Mullen from Hickory Ridge. That pick was ate up and favoritism was called but absolutely one of the best selections of the 44.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Well I know for a fact that Brewer pushed for him to be on the team so evidently his opinion mattered none being on the staff. You are a dang wannabe guru. Backtracking son of a gun. You said the LB RB not selected were for character issues, well not with Jager. It's funny that the AP all state and the USA North Carolina all state have Jager but not the shrine bowl.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Like I said the Shrine Bowl is stupid and it's format etc. Lose every year NC! The coaching staff is awesome. Keep it up!

 

[btango]

I have never wrote that any particular player was not selected based on character. Show me where I wrote that any specific player was not selected for character. I have no idea what linebacker you are referencing. No backtracking from me.

Not a guru, don't claim to be one. I am interested in trying improve this game.

Note, since the Shrine Bowl was moved back a week and NC's title games are no longer the same day SC leads the series by one game. The last three were basically a TD difference.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Close only counts in hand gernades and horse shoes. If you wanna make it better then why do you defend everything about the current game?

 

[btango]

Originally posted by owen98:
Close only counts in hand gernades and horse shoes. If you wanna make it better then why do you defend everything about the current game?

You said they lost every year. Way off. They have lost three in a row. Really close games 23-19, 28-23, and 21-12 this season. First two went down to the very end. As I wrote since the NC title games quit overlapping SC leads the series by one game.

I do not defend everything about it. I question a lot of it. I pissed off people who make decisions by questioning things.

There have been a few years when NC had the most talent and did not expect them to lose and they did. Other years when it looked like they did not have a chance and won.

You are disappointed because one of over 7,000 seniors eligible to make the team of 44 did not make it. I have listed reasons I think he did not make it and I list those reasons based on what the coaches said they were looking for and his combine numbers, nothing else. There were players I did not think should have made it but I am not a coach nor am I watching four game films of each player and really digging into them at the combines. Do I think I would have taken Gardner, probably. Do I think he would have been a difference maker in the outcome, probably not.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

ut I would also bring my personal bias and prejudices
into the picture as we all would. That one coach or two that beat you
over and over, or the one that ribbed you too much at the clinic or the
one you just can't stand....his kid might get left off if it comes down
to what I say his kid vs. another.

I am sure this happens. I would hope an adult would not have this 13 year old mentality.

 

[PigSkinUmpire]

Owen98, my buddy the Goat Man, coach at Owen, sure doesn't share your thoughts or your feelings. Starting to think you and Mule both are lonely and constipated. Hopefully things will open up for both of you.

This post was edited on 12/30 10:27 AM by PigSkinUmpire

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Like I said the Shrine Bowl is stupid and it's format etc. Lose every year NC! The coaching staff is awesome. Keep it up!

I will say that I was very interested in your prior posts until you had this melt down and made these very uncharacteristic comments. I don't agree on all points btango makes but I do on the majority of them. You made some accusations about him and in fairness to him you need to cite specific examples to back up your comments. In other words go back and copy and paste those comments you attribute to him saying these things. That is the only fair thing to do. When you accuse someone of something you need positive proof. Otherwise your credibility will be shot.

I am sure this young man is an outstanding player and deserved to be on the team. I am also sure if you look around there are many players in the state who are in this same catagory. One example was Richard Huntley (Monroe) who went on to be an outstanding college player. He set a national rushing record while playing at WS State and played in the NFL for 6 years. He was not picked. There are many more examples if you do some research. I remember him because I recruited him. My point is you can't pick them all. Does that mean that the SB coaches were a bunch of morons? The answer is no they were not. The answer is that they simply chose someone else over him. Plain and simple.

 

[Acoach2]

Well said Ramsfan. Know this past year's coach personally and know next year's coach personally. Both are good men and good coaches. Both are fair. Both are competitors. To paraphrase Jim Mora, people think they know but they don't and in some cases they never will!

 

[Owen Stampede]

First I didn't say that NC loses every year I said lose NC. Like do it. What doesn't Kenny agree with Pig?

 

[btango]

Originally posted by owen98:
First I didn't say that NC loses every year I said lose NC. Like do it. What doesn't Kenny agree with Pig?

I think he is saying the head coach (Kenny Ford) has not said anything about it to him. I am sure they would know one another as Coach Ford has coached in the game in the last ten years.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:

I am sure this young man is an outstanding player and deserved to be on the team. I am also sure if you look around there are many players in the state who are in this same catagory. One example was Richard Huntley (Monroe) who went on to be an outstanding college player. He set a national rushing record while playing at WS State and played in the NFL for 6 years. He was not picked. There are many more examples if you do some research. I remember him because I recruited him. My point is you can't pick them all. Does that mean that the SB coaches were a bunch of morons? The answer is no they were not. The answer is that they simply chose someone else over him. Plain and simple.

If 85 players were selected there would be complaints. Nature of all star teams.

Richard Huntley would not have been able to play in the game if he were selected because Monroe played in the state title game the same say as the Shrine Bowl. I have no idea if he was selected or not but know he definitely could not have played. Same as TA McLendon and many other prior to the 2002 game going back to 1985.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
ut I would also bring my personal bias and prejudices
into the picture as we all would. That one coach or two that beat you
over and over, or the one that ribbed you too much at the clinic or the
one you just can't stand....his kid might get left off if it comes down
to what I say his kid vs. another.

I am sure this happens. I would hope an adult would not have this 13 year old mentality.

Right....I would hope so too. But, like you say "I am sure this happens"

 

[Owen Stampede]

I know Kenny tried to get him in the shrine bowl sending tapes and all and Kenny says all the time how Jager says and does the right things but this guy says Kenny doesn't agree with me. That's what I want a answer to.

 

[PigSkinUmpire]

First off, it's Coach Kenny to you, I'm sure sure he's earned the title AND respect that goes with that title. I'll call him Coach Goat Man, as our personal relationship is very tight, and has between for the past 10+ years. Plus, he's requested I address him that way.

You said "the Shrine Bowl is stupid" Coach Goat called to wish me and my family Merry Christmas Thursday, and I assure you, after a long conversation, he doesn't feel the way you do. Again, whatever your anger issues are, here's to you getting through them quickly!

 

[Owen Stampede]

I talk to and address Kenny as Kenny. Thank you. Go screw yourself. He may love the shrine bowl, so what. Because I like Coach Ford doesn't mean I will share his opinion on everything.

 

[WhoaMule]

Ill have to admit gaining a respect for coach Ford, after that game at WCU with Pisgah when he laid it all on the line, a conference title, an undefeated season, by going for a 2pt conversion at the very end in an attempt to win the game outright instead of playing for OT after trailing the entire game. That takes guts, and for players that takes trust in their coach to buy into that. Even though the try failed, Owen didn't lose in my eyes.

 

[Mustanglifer]

Sounds like somebody's baby boy didn't get picked for the squad! Guess what pal? So did thousands of others. Get over it! No means no. You are the only person here crying because their boy did not make it! Learn from it and move along!