Shrine Bowl Discussion
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The NC defense did good except on a couple of big plays. Brandon McMillan from Scotland got the NC Defensive Player of the Game award. I saw some good plays by Darian Roseboro, Jalen Dalton, Jayron Rankin, and Dayshawn Pridgen.
My priorities are fine. I replied to a post if yours because you stated the game was all about the kids in the hospital. I agree about the kids in that hospital. Damn man I have kids. But when that game starts its about winning if you have any competitivenes in you. I saw a poorly prepared team in that game. Special teams especially. Have a Merry Christmas.
There has to be a balance between competition and worthy causes. There is a bigger purpose to these games. I am quite sure that coaches will pick the best players. Also, some coaches may not send some players who deserve to go, for what ever reason. I was with my former head coach when they picked the 2003 team and I have to tell you that was a tremendous amount of talent. Some times it works out, sometimes it does not.
Sandlappers and Tarheels want to fight for football superiority but it is probably more fun for the kids. The adults are the ones that get bent out of shape.
Sandlappers and Tarheels want to fight for football superiority but it is probably more fun for the kids. The adults are the ones that get bent out of shape.
Ever go to watch a little league baseball game? Seriously if we are going to sit here (how many have we lost in a row) and discuss this game as if it don't matter and it's all about the Shriner kids then they should consider mixing the south kids with the North and draw teams by straws. Why even have coaches good or bad?? I don't think this discussion is probably going on in South Carolina right now. They are probably pretty happy with how the game is going.
Well I went to the South Carolina boards just out of curiosity to see what they thought of the game. Didn't find much other than this so maybe our Shrine Bowl coach was distracted. lmao
Capps busy man
Capps busy man
Otis, my poor man, you seem easily distracted. Coach Hal Capps is very content at his present place of employment. This ponds is dry, try fishing somewhere else.
Actually the busiest SC board has a lot of negative comments about their coaches and the offensive play in the game. It also had a lot of complaints when the team was released.
Going into this year's game the series was tied since the Shrine Bowl and the NC state championships were moved from different days.
Going into this year's game the series was tied since the Shrine Bowl and the NC state championships were moved from different days.
Capps has thirty years in the system. He is happy and content at Mooresville but I would expect he would be willing to look at $40 to $60k per year pay increase. NC's laws against double dipping and the bigger pay with less teaching responsibility is a huge incentive.
There you go Otis4411. I guess the post by btango shoots your theory in the head. To me this says that no matter what, you will never be able to satisfy everyone.
Actually the busiest SC board has a lot of
negative comments about their coaches and the offensive play in the
game. It also had a lot of complaints when the team was released.
Actually the busiest SC board has a lot of
negative comments about their coaches and the offensive play in the
game. It also had a lot of complaints when the team was released.
Ever go to watch a little league baseball game? Seriously if we are
going to sit here (how many have we lost in a row) and discuss this
game as if it don't matter and it's all about the Shriner kids then they
should consider mixing the south kids with the North and draw teams by
straws. Why even have coaches good or bad?? I don't think this
discussion is probably going on in South Carolina right now. They are
probably pretty happy with how the game is going.
Yes and some of those parents make themselves look like fools. They are the reason many kids do not want to play after their parents make a fool out of themselves. Nobody ever said that these kids do not want to win. Most coaches accept losing if the kids play well. Most of the parents and fans who are the ones who have a difficult time with losing are the ones who were never very good so they try to replay their high school lives through their kids. The fact is most of the people on here who are level headed see all the aspects of what this game is all about. Everybody wants to win but if they lose and they have played their hearts out they can accept losing.
going to sit here (how many have we lost in a row) and discuss this
game as if it don't matter and it's all about the Shriner kids then they
should consider mixing the south kids with the North and draw teams by
straws. Why even have coaches good or bad?? I don't think this
discussion is probably going on in South Carolina right now. They are
probably pretty happy with how the game is going.
Yes and some of those parents make themselves look like fools. They are the reason many kids do not want to play after their parents make a fool out of themselves. Nobody ever said that these kids do not want to win. Most coaches accept losing if the kids play well. Most of the parents and fans who are the ones who have a difficult time with losing are the ones who were never very good so they try to replay their high school lives through their kids. The fact is most of the people on here who are level headed see all the aspects of what this game is all about. Everybody wants to win but if they lose and they have played their hearts out they can accept losing.
But when that game starts its about winning if you have any competitivenes in you.
Nobody has ever said that it was not about winning the game. When I was coaching I never discussed winning and losing. I always talked about being prepared and playing the best game you can play. If you do that then winning will take care of itself if everything is equal. In many games everything is not always equal. Mistakes create inequalities. The best teams do not always win.
Nobody has ever said that it was not about winning the game. When I was coaching I never discussed winning and losing. I always talked about being prepared and playing the best game you can play. If you do that then winning will take care of itself if everything is equal. In many games everything is not always equal. Mistakes create inequalities. The best teams do not always win.
He is happy and content at Mooresville but I would expect he would be
willing to look at $40 to $60k per year pay increase. NC's laws against
double dipping and the bigger pay with less teaching responsibility is a
huge incentive.
Not every coach is willing to move to another state just for the money. Many coaches are happy being where they are. They do not see any benefits to uprooting thier wife and kids and leaving friends just to move to another state just to make more money. Believe it or not many coaches are satisfied being where they are making what they make. If that was not the case most of the SC coaches would move to Texas or California where I am sure they would make more. Sometimes it is not about the money. I am sure if Knotts had stayed in college coaching he would have made a lot more than he makes now. But again it is not always about the money.
willing to look at $40 to $60k per year pay increase. NC's laws against
double dipping and the bigger pay with less teaching responsibility is a
huge incentive.
Not every coach is willing to move to another state just for the money. Many coaches are happy being where they are. They do not see any benefits to uprooting thier wife and kids and leaving friends just to move to another state just to make more money. Believe it or not many coaches are satisfied being where they are making what they make. If that was not the case most of the SC coaches would move to Texas or California where I am sure they would make more. Sometimes it is not about the money. I am sure if Knotts had stayed in college coaching he would have made a lot more than he makes now. But again it is not always about the money.
Some schools in SC pay as much as any in the country. California is not a high pay state for a football coach even with the high cost of living. Pay is better than NC but not better than some of the southern football states. Texas is a high pay state in many places just as is SC.
My personal opinion is Knotts likes being in charge of his own product more than being an assistant. Just my take. Before he had his son I do not think money really worked into the equation but things change.
It may not be always about money. It may be about going somewhere that football is treated more importantly, where you do not teach classes, where you are basically a football coach.
A lot of coaches in NC hit thirty years and they are being paid their salary but that is working for about 40% of what they were making because retirement pay is available but cannot be taken without leaving the job. I think that has a lot to do with it. Example: Pay is $70,000. Retirement is $40,000. Take your pick but you cannot have both if you stay in NC.
Capps and his wife are not from Mooresville. The daughter is an adult. I am sure he would make the decision on what to do based on many aspects of their life, not just the pay.
I am not a Mooresville guy but I will tell anyone, based on my dealings with Hal Capps he is as good a man as you will meet and he is a straight shooter that lives by a set of principles. I may not agree with everything he does or how he does it but I respect the hell out of the guy and like him as a person.
Worst shrine bowl I've ever seen. I've been to some bad shrine bowl games (70s/80/90s) through wet, frozen miserable games. The talent was evident out there then in previous years....not so much this year.
D1 talent is down for both states- very evident. Even with the 1000 recruiting services that will rank everybody somewhere....the talent is down,a nd the picks questionable. Maybe SC is starting to get a little of the NC good ole boys picks going on. We still have too much of that going on. I firmly don't believe this is a D1 only game for picks. But, if a guy has great numbers and just isn't a great player, he's a system guy and that should be strongly looked at before allowing him on the team. A few NC kids got on this team in front of 50 more deserving kids at the SAME position. You can't miss that badly and claim it was just a personal opinion of coach(es).
I only watched it once on TV, and didn't listen to audio so this may have been addressed already....but does anyone know if that little A-11 fake punt NC did still legal to do in post season games? I thought that was outlawed in regular NC HS football. Not sure if it still is, or if it is allowed in these type games even if not allowed in normal, regular season?
NC skill talent takes at WR/QB were horrendous. I'm not a great prognosticator but I went on record before the game to say the "new" QB would be the NC MVP on offense not because of anything else besides he would be probably the only talented guy from NC touching the ball more than 3-4 times on the day for them.
SCs talent, though I am not as familiar with it as I am NCs, from what I know they missed big on some guys put in this game.
This post was edited on 12/26 8:57 AM by RalphMachio99
During the game there were two referees with a lot of experience that work with the Shrine Bowl on the sidelines. Neither said anything about it being illegal.
The game has a referee that works with them year round. He is available for coaches to show play diagrams to ensure there is no issue with legality.
The game has a referee that works with them year round. He is available for coaches to show play diagrams to ensure there is no issue with legality.
When the teams were picked the head coach stated that they did not pick by stars but the players they thought would fit in the systems they were running and would bye into the week long team concept. I feel pretty confident a few big time names were left off due to something other than their football skills.
Yes, I've heard and read about that too. To me that's code for "we're taking who we want to...don't ask any questions".
I guess they ahve the right to do that...they've earned the position and the selection responsibility. I know very well they put hours into film study of these players,etc typically.
I still go back to there are about 49 players in front of our wideouts. Of the ones on the team, if I had to take two, I would have taken the smallest ones #33 and Boykin from Havelock for sure based off talent. Even RB (to me) was questionable. I think they took a couple of the D1 recruits and supplemented with some hometown /buddy guys. QB, WR, RB could have had 10-12 different guys and been about the same or better.
NC is a tough state to narrow them down for sure...but....
I do not really agree with the way you read into it. There were a couple of big star rated players that they seriously discussed and thought would help but opted to go a different route.
Mullen was the most impressive player at practice in the receiving corps. Knew everything happening and did not drop a pass. He was one of the selections that got the most negatives thrown out except to people who had seen him play or knew what he could do. I am in agreement on him. Boykin was not really a threat in the passing game and I expected as much. Big defenders and small NC QBs including his teammate. He may could have been used some other way but he was not very visible past the line of scrimmage. The wideouts overall were too small.
I thought the running backs were stacked. People questioned the Mooresville player but I saw him play before he had the ankle injury and he was impressive. Good size / speed combination with good running back skills. Hines was the one that did not get selected as a running back that was questioned. Reid, Frasier, Rankin along with Love and Gallaspy listed at other positions but were to used at RB. Love pulled out due to injury. Reid suffered a hip injury in the first half and did not return.
At QB Hinton was the best passer I saw this year but he pulled out Monday with an ankle injury. Ratliff from Butler opted out. Those three and Ladowski would have been my choices at QB. Actually thought the QB from Piedmont was a big solid kid at the combine.
wrong, with appropriate coaching ,the qb always matters. when you're playing against db's and linebackers having one week of practice and limited defensive packages there is no excuse not to be able to pass on s.c . as stated before, s.c didn't even show the capability of covering a swing pass.
wrong, with appropriate coaching ,the qb always matters.
All the QB's had appropriate coaching since last spring so I have no idea what you mean by this. No QB will be effective if their OL is not getting the job done.
The NCSU vs UCF game is an example of that. When NCSU got pressure on the UCF QB he was throwing the ball everywhere except to his receivers. When he had time to throw he was much more efficient.
This post was edited on 12/27 12:25 AM by No.1RamsFan
All the QB's had appropriate coaching since last spring so I have no idea what you mean by this. No QB will be effective if their OL is not getting the job done.
The NCSU vs UCF game is an example of that. When NCSU got pressure on the UCF QB he was throwing the ball everywhere except to his receivers. When he had time to throw he was much more efficient.
This post was edited on 12/27 12:25 AM by No.1RamsFan
That was just about the dullest, most lifeless football game I ever saw last night. Most all star games tend to be this way, granted, but this one.....may well set the all time mark for most forgettable games of all time. Best way to create more interest in a game like this...Coaches do not get to hand pick their team. They would be (fairly) drawn at random by position, and they play with what they got....Just like it is in most high schools in both states anyway. No "combines" no politics, no accusations. And I would bet the game would be better from a fan perspective as well.
Guys it is tough to etach new kids a system in one week. I don't care how good the athletes are. This is especially true more on offense than defense. In these games the offenses are normally watered down. You use a system for your 4 years in HS with different terminology then all of a sudden you are subjected to everything new and are expected to learn it in a few days. Not an easy hing to do. If you have never coached at the HS level or higher I do not expect you to understand this. That is why these games with equal talent are usually boring to the fans.
Never coached above little league but yea you are spot on. I have to be honest this thread was started and almost went 12 hours with no response. So in jest i stirred the pot. 2 pages now and really most of it has been good discussion about the game.
This post was edited on 12/27 6:42 PM by Otis4411
I have no doubt about this. I got to tell you that I would almost rather have two or three teeth taken out than re-watch that game. This fact you brought up is a very good reason to examine the justification for this game to be played at all. If it is all about the kids as we keep seeing and hearing, why not just have some other kind of fund raiser, such as a huge casino night with all proceeds going to the hospital efforts? It may well make more $$ with a lot less effort, and cost. If nothing else, it sure wouldn't be boring.
I am not exactly sure but here are some of the things I remember. May be off slightly.
Blitzing is allowed but no running start. The defender must be on the line or walking toward it.
Defense is a 3/4.
Offense must have one back in the backfield with no unbalanced lines.
I need to find the modifications.
Mule, you are the most negative person I've witnessed in a long time. What in life has caused you such continued anger? Find help. And I can promise I/we will never consult you on the justification of playing the world's oldest high school all-star game.
Otis, this year we raised a little of 1.5 million for Shriners Hospital.
Btango, I'll find you a copy of the special rules, and get then to you.
Merry Christmas my friend!!
Otis, this year we raised a little of 1.5 million for Shriners Hospital.
Btango, I'll find you a copy of the special rules, and get then to you.
Merry Christmas my friend!!
Mule, you are the most negative person I've witnessed in a long time. What in life has caused you such continued anger?
People like you that tend to have their own version of truth and fact. Even in the face of provable evidence to the contrary.
And I can promise I/we will never consult you on the justification of playing the world's oldest high school all-star game.
Nor anybody else, which is the very reason why that game is like watching pavement harden.
Well I would have to ask how much money did they raise for the hospital from this game?
Otis, this year we raised a little of 1.5 million for Shriners Hospital.
I believe Otis asked how much did this game generate? Are you saying that 1.5 million dollars was raised as a direct result of the Shrine bowl game? I would suspect given the crowd I saw at that game that it may have cost more to play the game than it brought in revenue, via gate receipts. Sponsorships can not be counted toward this because they would be available for the CAUSE of the Hospital alone, and not just a game, and could be applied to any event or fundraiser. That it is the oldest all star game or whatever in the country (whether that is in fact true or not) means exactly Jack Schmitt to most of us. A turd is a turd, no matter how old it is, or how or what it is packaged in.
People like you that tend to have their own version of truth and fact. Even in the face of provable evidence to the contrary.
And I can promise I/we will never consult you on the justification of playing the world's oldest high school all-star game.
Nor anybody else, which is the very reason why that game is like watching pavement harden.
Well I would have to ask how much money did they raise for the hospital from this game?
Otis, this year we raised a little of 1.5 million for Shriners Hospital.
I believe Otis asked how much did this game generate? Are you saying that 1.5 million dollars was raised as a direct result of the Shrine bowl game? I would suspect given the crowd I saw at that game that it may have cost more to play the game than it brought in revenue, via gate receipts. Sponsorships can not be counted toward this because they would be available for the CAUSE of the Hospital alone, and not just a game, and could be applied to any event or fundraiser. That it is the oldest all star game or whatever in the country (whether that is in fact true or not) means exactly Jack Schmitt to most of us. A turd is a turd, no matter how old it is, or how or what it is packaged in.
Shrine Bowl selections as compared to the NC Preps All State team.
Offense: 11 players. 6 selected. 3 were not eligible (2 were juniors and one played in the private school league). 1 did not attend a combine. 6 of 8 that were eligible were selected. 6 of 7 that attended a combine were selected.
Defense: 11 players. 3 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 5 did not attend a combine. 3 of the 10 that were eligible were selected. 3 of the 5 that attended a combine were selected.
Specialities: 5 players. 2 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 2 did not attend a combine. 2 of the 4 that were eligible were selected. 2 of the 2 that attended a combine were selected.
27 players selected NC Preps All State.
22 players were eligible for the Shrine Bowl.
14 players attended a combine.
11 players that attended a combine were selected to the Shrine Bowl.
Three not selected were Cole Cleary (WR Hendersonville), Jeremiah Young (LB Franklin), Demerio Houston (DB Shelby).
Note: Ladowski was not initially selected to the Shrine Bowl but replaced Hinton who was removed due to injury. One DB opted out. One DB was contacted by a SB coaching staff member after not attending any combines and his school not submitting any players to the Shrine Bowl. He had some interest, but ultimately not selected.
This post was edited on 12/28 5:07 PM by btango
Offense: 11 players. 6 selected. 3 were not eligible (2 were juniors and one played in the private school league). 1 did not attend a combine. 6 of 8 that were eligible were selected. 6 of 7 that attended a combine were selected.
Defense: 11 players. 3 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 5 did not attend a combine. 3 of the 10 that were eligible were selected. 3 of the 5 that attended a combine were selected.
Specialities: 5 players. 2 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 2 did not attend a combine. 2 of the 4 that were eligible were selected. 2 of the 2 that attended a combine were selected.
27 players selected NC Preps All State.
22 players were eligible for the Shrine Bowl.
14 players attended a combine.
11 players that attended a combine were selected to the Shrine Bowl.
Three not selected were Cole Cleary (WR Hendersonville), Jeremiah Young (LB Franklin), Demerio Houston (DB Shelby).
Note: Ladowski was not initially selected to the Shrine Bowl but replaced Hinton who was removed due to injury. One DB opted out. One DB was contacted by a SB coaching staff member after not attending any combines and his school not submitting any players to the Shrine Bowl. He had some interest, but ultimately not selected.
This post was edited on 12/28 5:07 PM by btango
I talked to a shrine bowl coach and he said that some players where left off because of character issues or just didint fit into what they wanted to do, especially at the LB, and Runningback Postion. What he said was, " you cant have players with character issues on your team in a room full of other testosterone filled teenager, and with the opposing team in the same hotel for a whole week, thats a disaster in the making. We picked the best players with the best Character that fit our system offensively and defensively." This came straight from a shrine bowl coach.
This post was edited on 12/29 1:40 AM by Stanimallector
This post was edited on 12/29 1:42 AM by Stanimallector
This post was edited on 12/29 1:40 AM by Stanimallector
This post was edited on 12/29 1:42 AM by Stanimallector
Watched a replay of the game last week on TV. Looked like the NC coaches tried to get too cute with play calling. Shot themselves in the foot.