Shrine Bowl Discussion

[PatrickO'Brien_rivals102734]

Shrine Bowl Discussion can be found on the link below. Come inside and talk all about Saturday's events there.

https://ncpreps.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1113&tid=208035811&mid=208035811&sid=958&style=2

 

[Otis1144]

Not much to discuss other than trying to figure out who the hell thought those guys on the NC sidelines could coach? That was embarrassing.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Meaning?

 

[Otis1144]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
Meaning?

Piss poor coaching lost us that game. That's the meaning.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

How exactly? Give examples.

 

[PigSkinUmpire]

Tell us Mr Otis, as the head coach, or any part of the coaching staff....what would you have done different? Of course, being a back seat driver hours after the game, isn't going to impress anyone. But go ahead and give it a try big fellow.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Pick the right players for starters without the crappy bias.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Obviously that would be the solution because apparently you think they coached great so the talent on the team must have been sub par.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

What would you have done differently? I don't think losing in many cases has a lot to do with poor coaching or sub par (as you call it) talent. In many cases it has to do with mistakes made by the players. In some cases a call made does not work but that happens on both teams on many occasions but in some situations this is more costly that others. In the end the Shrine Bowl is more about the money raised for the kids than kit is who wins or loses. The kids in the hospitalk are the big winners. The fact that the players take away a lot from this game when they have the opportunity to visit these kids. It makes them realize that there is more to life than FB.

This post was edited on 12/21 10:51 AM by No.1RamsFan

 

[artvandelay]

nc always makes political picks that have no business plaing in a game like this

 

[PigSkinUmpire]

Give me the name of the players that were picked, that should not have been, and the kids that should have been picked instead.

 

[Otis1144]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
What would you have done differently? I don't think losing in many cases has a lot to do with poor coaching or sub par (as you call it) talent. In many cases it has to do with mistakes made by the players. In some cases a call made does not work but that happens on both teams on many occasions but in some situations this is more costly that others. In the end the Shrine Bowl is more about the money raised for the kids than kit is who wins or loses. The kids in the hospitalk are the big winners. The fact that the players take away a lot from this game when they have the opportunity to visit these kids. It makes them realize that there is more to life than FB.


This post was edited on 12/21 10:51 AM by No.1RamsFan

I guess next year they should just not keep the score then. lol

 

[artvandelay]

were you at the game"? i don't know their names and i don't know every player but how about gardner,jeremiah young, mark fileds, van,smith nyheim hines to name a few

 

[btango]

Smith and Fields opted out (they did not want to play, both may be early enrollees). They are both athletes but play mainly on the D side. NC's D shut SC down except the score at the end if the first half.

Young is a LB. Thought that group along with whole D looked solid.

Both teams defenses dominated. The blocked FG went for a score. SC had a little better field position.

They opted for Love over Hines but Love pulled out with an injury. I would have had Hines but the staff had a reason for not picking him.

I did not see Gardner play.

I thought a little more size in the receiving corp may have been helpful but it looks like the staff opted more for speed there and size with the backs.

Field position and turnovers are a huge key in this game. O line is the toughest position to get ready in seven practices. Going against a defensive front like SC had would have made it tough regardless of the players selected there. SC coach said the same about his team's offense.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Well Gardner is 6'3 208 and runs a 4.4 40 and can play anywhere. He had 45 TDs, 5 on kick returns 2 receiving and 38 rushing. He touched the ball 10 or 12 times returning kicks. Had less than 10 catches and had 200+ yards and averaged almost 10 yards per carry rushing for 2600+ yds rushing. So big frame,strong fast and numbers don't lie. He could helped that team in so many ways.

This post was edited on 12/21 1:14 PM by owen98

 

[artvandelay]

sorry, my bad. i guess there were no political picks on that team.no coach ever takes a player from his own team that has no business being on the team. i do remember several years ago that an ast coach from wnc took his rb who rushed for about 300 yds. that's right three hundred yds but he was one of his players.kid wouldn't have played on any decent hs team but he was on the shrine bowl team.
is that the best sr kicker in nc?

i have attended every shrine bowl but 1 since it's been in spartanburg . this was the worst nc team i've seen.

 

[btango]

Art I did not write anything about the pcks. I replied to a few of the players you listed. Two you named did not wish to play and I doubt two DBs would have made much difference.

I think the d front seven was as good as NC has had in Spartanburg. Thought the running back group and DBs were very good. The RBs had no room on almost every play. The game was won in the trenches.

 

[artvandelay]

true , you did not mention any picks.i disagree. nc held their own in the trenches defensively. neither o'line was winning up front. qb play for both teams was lacking a lot. not much arm strength on display as compared to past years but the game was lost because nc could not kick the ball. blocked fg for td. blocked pat.
nc has nearly twice the population and number of hs 's as sc so why does sc kick our butt every year? do players get magically better when they cross a state line?

 

[btango]

If you ask a lot of college coaches that recruit the two states you will hear that SC is ahead if NC to some degree. Many theories and many reasons to support or contest that.

Since NC went to the combines which SC followed doing a few years back the series was tied going into Saturday.

 

[Mustanglifer]

Both defenses played very well. Offense is always harder to establish in these all star games. Some sketchy play calls from NC. Arm strength was lacking from NC quarterbacks. Ladowski is a great athlete but he only stayed in the pocket for a second before taking off. Many receivers standing open in space. Rocky Reid was slightly injured and did not play in the 2nd half.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by owen98:
Well Gardner is 6'3 208 and runs a 4.4 40 and can play anywhere. He had 45 TDs, 5 on kick returns 2 receiving and 38 rushing. He touched the ball 10 or 12 times returning kicks. Had less than 10 catches and had 200+ yards and averaged almost 10 yards per carry rushing for 2600+ yds rushing. So big frame,strong fast and numbers don't lie. He could helped that team in so many ways.

This post was edited on 12/21 1:14 PM by owen98

As I wrote I did not see Gardner play but I was curious about him so I looked up his combine numbers. He measured 6'1" at the combine and ran 40 times (hand held) of 4.71 and 4.59.

 

[Owen Stampede]

I think your wrong. He has been 6'3 for several years. I think you are talking about Zee Johnston from Owen. That would be his numbers.

This post was edited on 12/21 7:26 PM by owen98

 

[Owen Stampede]

Art is a ACR fan and I think he can tell you Jager is not 6'1. Go watch Jagers hudl and you can see that.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by owen98:
I think your wrong. He has been 6'3 for several years. I think you are talking about Zee Johnston from Owen. That would be his numbers.

This post was edited on 12/21 7:26 PM by owen98

Johnston is listed at 6 feet tall. His 40 was 4.84 and 4.75. Friszell was listed at 6'5".

I have seen Gardner listed at 6'3", 6'2", and this 6'1". 6'3" or 6'1" is not short either way and 6'3" is a big kid. The 40 times regardless of height were slow. I watched the 40's at that combine. They ran on the turf field and used multiple watches taking the fastest time. Clock started on the players movement. Muse from South Point was a huge kid and ran 4.50 which I thought was impressive for his size.

 

[WhoaMule]

It is beyond my ability to understand why kids west of say, Morganton would go to the bother (not to mention the expense) of attending these endless meaningless "combines" with no realistic shot of even being given a second look, regardless of their #s. It has been my suspicion that most if not all coaches already KNOW who they want on their team in situations like this...and it is a very short list of people they are already familiar with. This also could be the reason that some choose not to play, especially around here, regardless of the cause this game represents. And I don't blame them, I wouldn't either. If it is "all about the kids" players from both states should be selected at random, every single player on both teams should be given equal PT, and no score kept.

 

[btango]

Mule they had a combine at AC Reynolds. Normally the school takes a bus with the kids.

There are 7,000 senior football players in NC. 44 make the team with one required as a specialist. Think that is tough?

Charlotte people complain because four players of the twenty eligible schools made the team. Mountain folks complain because of the lack of representation. People east of I-95 complained, but there were at least six from that region although it is very wide from top to bottom. People around Raleigh complain saying that the amount of players from that area is not equitable with the number of schools there.

 

[Owen Stampede]

Well I know the kid and I have never seen the 6'1 you refer to and he is 6'3 and his Shrine bowl combine time means very little. Its not the only place to time a 40. Like I said the Shrine bowl and everything affiliated with it is a joke. Its all about the kids that's great but from my vantage point its not. I could care less if NC ever wins a game in it again. You by your own admission haven't seen Jager then you say you went to the combine he was in hmmmmm. I just think you would argue with a fence post. I have seen the kids I have made reference too directly and that's what I will continue to speak to. If you put the specimen and the numbers of Jager and Jareke side by side, which I think are both deserving of playing a game like this then I pick Jager every time, but the coach bias shown in these stupid games are what goes on.

 

[porky-2]

South Carolina still hasn't covered a wheel route. just saying :maybe , the coaches could be more aggressive with stretching the defense

 

[No.1RamsFan]

I guess next year they should just not keep the score then. lol

Did anyone suggest that? I guess to you the kids in the hospital don't mean anything. If that is how you feel then you need to re-evaluate your priorities. I spent many years of my life devoted to playing and coaching FB at many levels. I was lucky enough to win many championships. The one thing I always did have was the fact that I had my priorities in order. If you think FB is priority no. 1 then there is something missing in your life. So LOL yourself.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Owen98, there is a huge difference between a 4.4 40 and a 4.6 40. Where did your 4.4 40 times come from? Why do you feel the Shrine Bowl is a joke. The purpose behind the Shrine Bowl is far greater than the FB game. There have always been and always will be kids in NC and SC who people feel should have made the teams. They only have spots for 44 on each team. Both teams coaches do one whale of a job getting kids ready in one week. Instead of bad mouthing them because you think they should have picked a certain kid you should look at all the time they spend all fall long looking at kids on film. They drive long distances and spend a ton of hours in preparation for this one game. What kid chosen by his coach did not deserve to be there? Was this Gardner kid better than any of the other running backs chosen? The fact that Reggie Gallaspy was playing LB tells me that the ones chosen were very good. If they needed an additional back I am sure he would have been the first to make the switch to offense. Have you seen his numbers? I will never insult one of the coaches by calling them insulting names. To me that is childish.

This post was edited on 12/22 2:01 AM by No.1RamsFan

This post was edited on 12/22 2:08 AM by No.1RamsFan

This post was edited on 12/22 2:10 AM by No.1RamsFan

 

[Greenhorsepower]

Three reasons SC has an advantage: Game is played in Spartanburgh SC.... SC does a better job of selecting best players... and,SC playoffs are only 4 games while NC is 5 games..This gives SC an extra week to rest, heal, plan, etc

 

[Owen Stampede]

I am done with this but I didn't call any coach's names. All I said was there is bias shown and that is true. I don't think the best players in the state get picked because of this period. I don't know what mansion you stepped out of but I don't owe you anything as far as an explanation but Jager has been timed many times, he runs track and he runs a 4.43. You are looking at one day and you have to consider he went to camp after camp after camp after visit after visit during the off season and I don't care how young you are you're gonna get tired. He also plays AAU basketball, high school Basketball, runs track etc. If you wanna live on the Shrine Bowl then by all means do so. Peace!

 

[WhoaMule]

There are 7,000 senior football players in NC. 44 make the team with one required as a specialist. Think that is tough?

Charlotte people complain because four players of the twenty eligible schools made the team. Mountain folks complain because of the lack of representation. People east of I-95 complained, but there were at least six from that region although it is very wide from top to bottom. People around Raleigh complain saying that the amount of players from that area is not equitable with the number of schools there.

Which is why I suggest a blind lottery of those 7000 seniors by position. (or those that choose to ENTER the lottery) and coaches who also express interest. Drawn at random, with no preference. Then a requirement that all must play. BOTH states. That would eliminate the need for this discussion thread altogether. We must not forget, that it is "all about the kids," as we keep being told, but judging from threads like this and the year long effort to pick 45 players (and cost associated with that effort) it really isn't, and never really has been.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Originally posted by owen98:
I am done with this but I didn't call any coach's names. All I said was there is bias shown and that is true. I don't think the best players in the state get picked because of this period. I don't know what mansion you stepped out of but I don't owe you anything as far as an explanation but Jager has been timed many times, he runs track and he runs a 4.43. You are looking at one day and you have to consider he went to camp after camp after camp after visit after visit during the off season and I don't care how young you are you're gonna get tired. He also plays AAU basketball, high school Basketball, runs track etc. If you wanna live on the Shrine Bowl then by all means do so. Peace!

Owen,
I agree with you very much on the selection process. That's the large majority of whether or not NC wins or not. Every coach selected knows football inside and out...that's not a problem. Unfortunately, UNLIKE the first couple years of the combine process, the last 4-6 years you've seen plenty of the old system where you end up with half the team being buddy picks.
Not saying that the kids picked aren't capable of playing....I just want the best 44, and we haven't seen that on the NC side in 5-6 years for sure. The last 2-3 you've seen kids passing up on the game here and there....and when the game is cheapened by allowing some undeserving picks to go in over passed over others, that bad vibe gets bigger every year.

The selection process is hard.....but you are right it's affected by bias and personal wishes, and sometimes old grudges and backslap returned favor deals.

Now, I disagree about your alledged times. If anybody wants to know, prove and show what they actually run....go to a NIKE camp or somewhere a third party laser times and they don't care if/what the individual runs. Hand times and paid personal speed coaches are about as exact as crestrulz bent over, looking through his legs into a mirror applying the lipstick to his butthole drunk.

All other talk about 40 time is just hype and misinformation.
This post was edited on 12/22 8:11 AM by RalphMachio99

 

[RalphMachio99]

Originally posted by Greenhorsepower:
Three reasons SC has an advantage: Game is played in Spartanburgh SC.... SC does a better job of selecting best players... and,SC playoffs are only 4 games while NC is 5 games..This gives SC an extra week to rest, heal, plan, etc

This is a solid post. Selection is easier due to the bigger grouping of schools (each school sorta weeds out who the best players are, and it's easy to see) so sometimes having more players to select is tough because NC might have a 2nd or 3rd team that could be selected that could beat the first team selected whereas SCs second team selected might not be as good as their first team. There are less places to hide in SC for the talent too (unlike some reaches of western and eastern NC especially in years past pre-internet). The playoff format now, and especially back when NCs state champ. teams' kids couldn't play played a huge role in this. The extra week now SC enjoys for getting their legs back, and coaches to get info out and extra prep for the kids is huge.

The fact that the game has gone to SC the last 10 plus years to be played (to me) is something to be looked at. I think in Charlotte you had/have a fair draw. But, in Rock Hill and Spartanburg where HS football is king (not basketball, baseball, etc) they are serious about it, and any little thing that might make a difference in the game during pregame, or during the week of practice can and will be done.

I'd love to see it on a rotating schedule b/w Spartanburg, Charlotte, Columbia and maybe Greensboro or Winston.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
Owen98, there is a huge difference between a 4.4 40 and a 4.6 40. Where did your 4.4 40 times come from? Why do you feel the Shrine Bowl is a joke. The purpose behind the Shrine Bowl is far greater than the FB game. There have always been and always will be kids in NC and SC who people feel should have made the teams. They only have spots for 44 on each team. Both teams coaches do one whale of a job getting kids ready in one week. Instead of bad mouthing them because you think they should have picked a certain kid you should look at all the time they spend all fall long looking at kids on film. They drive long distances and spend a ton of hours in preparation for this one game. What kid chosen by his coach did not deserve to be there? Was this Gardner kid better than any of the other running backs chosen? The fact that Reggie Gallaspy was playing LB tells me that the ones chosen were very good. If they needed an additional back I am sure he would have been the first to make the switch to offense. Have you seen his numbers? I will never insult one of the coaches by calling them insulting names. To me that is childish.


This post was edited on 12/22 2:01 AM by No.1RamsFan


This post was edited on 12/22 2:08 AM by No.1RamsFan


This post was edited on 12/22 2:10 AM by No.1RamsFan

Agree 1000% Ramsfan. 4.4 is near olympic speed. 4.6 is really good HS speed, and certainly nothing to be ashamed about. Somehow...4.55 to 4.75 guys get labeled 4.4 and it cheapens the guys who are actually legit at that speed. There are probably 1-2 players out of NC each year that hit 4.4 flat...that's it.
Also- if you get hand timed at 4.55....often you are 4.6 to 4.65 speed. It's funny how hand times never sway slower....and always faster to interested parties.

NFL scouts as part of keeping their job are pretty accurate with a hand held, but besides that for what HS are exposed to NIKE combines, etc. are where you have to go if you want the actual speed you can run. It most times doesn't help you to go there because the curtain is rolled back, but all this fantasy land talk about 4.6 guys running 4.3/4.4s goes away real fast.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

I don't know what mansion you stepped out of but I don't owe you anything as far as an explanation.

And nobody on here owes you an explanation either. So there you go. I guess the fact that this is a discussion board means nothing to you. If you have nothing to back up your opinion or feel like yopu don't want to discuss a topic then I would be done as well. The fact is this kid may or may not have been a good pick but there are many like him who were not picked as well. BTW where is he playing FB next year?

 

[No.1RamsFan]

On a positive note, who looked good on the NC defense?

 

[Owen Stampede]

Apparently you have no reading comprehension because earlier you said I called coach's names and now you say I asked for explanations. I did neither. I stated an opinion. That's it. Jager currently has offers from Virginia, Temple Georgia Southern and Akron. I look for more offers very soon and he will have to decide what is best for him. I see Louisville offering soon and if they do that might be where he lands. I believe he likes the staff and school. I don't have access to his 40 times outside of were you guys can go but his supposed best 40 is 4.43.....on that note I will agree that those 40 times are scewed for everyone but I just made reference to his scewed time in comparison to others scewed times. I do know nobody ran him down from behind. Maybe got an angle on him or something but not from behind. He is fast and that 6'1 is definitely inaccurate. Unlike clocking a 40, you can't change that.

 

[Godevilsgo]

Jäger Gardner is listed at 6'5" for basketball on Maxpreps. LOL. Kid grew two MORE inches in one week after football. Kid is an amazing growing machine.