Long post. No information. Minimal insight.
(Feel free to copy. It'll save time.)
(Feel free to copy. It'll save time.)
***Rutgers OC Search Update***
- Thread starter bobby deren_rivals
- Start date
And maybe Carty and his family are very comfortable living in New Hampshire and one of the few jobs they might consider is returning to NJ where they would be closer to family. Notice I said 'they' as the Mrs also often has a great say regarding family moves. For him and his family this would be a nice move and a decent increase in salary and for Rutgers a NJ guy who is well respected and a great boost for NJ and metro area recruiting. He certainly would come in with more experience and better credentials than DM did when hired by Ash.
How dense are you?
I gave you the definition and you say I dropped the "second part" when MOCK was the first part in my provided definition..
Sarcasm: The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
And are you actually now saying that it is the OC candidate who is tweeting about Trump?
Never mind.. I don't want to know.
Yeah, basically this. You need to find a maniacal unheralded Schiano type who won't leave RU until he drags them from near the bottom of offensive performance to near the top. Carty might be a s good as it gets.
Interesting story about Elko leaving Notre Dame for Texas A&M after only one year at Notre Dame.
http://irish.nbcsports.com/2018/01/...e-but-the-next-decision-could-determine-2018/
the Aggies and Jimbo Fisher called Elko again, apparently upping their offer to the point Notre Dame was either not willing to match it or too bothered at being asked for a second raise in two weeks to indulge the conversation. Exactly which of those reasons was the reality hardly matters. In many respects, they are one and the same. In all respects, the result does not change.
There comes a point when paying an assistant coach an average of $2 million per year — a figure reported by ND Insider’s Eric Hansen as what Elko will receive at A&M — is counterproductive to a program’s broader goals, no matter how well that coach improved a defense both individually and as a unit in just one season.
There is also a clear logical piece of management at hand. Whether it be Kelly, Swarbrick or a power further up the University ladder, any employer wants to avoid an all-out bidding war. It sets an unrealistic and costly precedent. Every coach considering leaving the Irish in the future would have indicated he may stay for more money. That counteroffer could then be turned around to bilk more from the prospective next employer.
The subject of a bidding war also prompts natural wondering from colleagues. Is he there because he wants to be or because the paycheck had just enough digits?
Monday morning - January 8th - "speculation fatigue" is rampant - several names have already cycled so thoroughly through the process that they have progressed thru the public perception phases of initial attraction & excitement to becoming viewed as unimpressive - or lackluster - to being rejected - all on the basis of general opinion . With apparently little information leaking out from the Rutgers Athletic program it still was possible for a remarkably large field of "candidates" to be identified via pure conjecture - and an estimated conclusion of the process (sometime this week) to be projected via "conventional wisdom"
This morning in The Monday Morning Kickoff Bobby Deren " states it looks as though New Hampshire’s Ryan Carty and Louisiana Tech’s Todd Fitch are the two finalists"
Sounds quite plausible - although I wonder - if this is truly the case, - did they get to this point through a rigorous assessment of their individual talents and capabilities and likelihood of being a great fit with the players, staff and needs of the program - - or was it via attrition? sort of last two standing?
- legitimately it could be a bit of both - and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Here's my hope - who ever it is ...
- I hope Ash is convinced to his very core that this choice has what it takes - has genuine visionary talent - is not just a technician / functionary / efficiently working a punch-list that looks like they stole from "Offensive Coordination for Dummies"
- I hope Ash sees authentic tenacity & strategic insight & creativity - and that it will only get stronger under pressure.
That great philosopher - Mike Tyson - once said"
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
.... one of the most important factors in Ash's choice here will be to find that guy who consistently creates great plans - and instinctively makes wise rapid adjustments - even when getting repetitively punched by formidable opponents.
This morning in The Monday Morning Kickoff Bobby Deren " states it looks as though New Hampshire’s Ryan Carty and Louisiana Tech’s Todd Fitch are the two finalists"
Sounds quite plausible - although I wonder - if this is truly the case, - did they get to this point through a rigorous assessment of their individual talents and capabilities and likelihood of being a great fit with the players, staff and needs of the program - - or was it via attrition? sort of last two standing?
- legitimately it could be a bit of both - and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Here's my hope - who ever it is ...
- I hope Ash is convinced to his very core that this choice has what it takes - has genuine visionary talent - is not just a technician / functionary / efficiently working a punch-list that looks like they stole from "Offensive Coordination for Dummies"
- I hope Ash sees authentic tenacity & strategic insight & creativity - and that it will only get stronger under pressure.
That great philosopher - Mike Tyson - once said"
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
.... one of the most important factors in Ash's choice here will be to find that guy who consistently creates great plans - and instinctively makes wise rapid adjustments - even when getting repetitively punched by formidable opponents.
TODD FITCH AS AN OC
Total Yards Ranking as an OC-
2010 USF- #112( saw a decline of 70 yards per game when he took over from previous OC)
2011 USF- #37 (increase of approximately 120 yards per game from his first year)
2012 USF- #85 (drop off of approximately 60 yards per game)
2015 BC- #128 (last in the country- saw a decline of 120 yards per game when he took over from previous OC)
2016 La Tech- #13 (increase of approx 40 yards per game from previous OC)
2017 La Tech- #69 (drop off of approximately 100 yards per game from his first year)
Granted, fluctuations can be driven by graduation but doesn't seem like there is a system here that is a difference maker. Seems like "just another guy" at OC. I'd take my chances with Canty.
Total Yards Ranking as an OC-
2010 USF- #112( saw a decline of 70 yards per game when he took over from previous OC)
2011 USF- #37 (increase of approximately 120 yards per game from his first year)
2012 USF- #85 (drop off of approximately 60 yards per game)
2015 BC- #128 (last in the country- saw a decline of 120 yards per game when he took over from previous OC)
2016 La Tech- #13 (increase of approx 40 yards per game from previous OC)
2017 La Tech- #69 (drop off of approximately 100 yards per game from his first year)
Granted, fluctuations can be driven by graduation but doesn't seem like there is a system here that is a difference maker. Seems like "just another guy" at OC. I'd take my chances with Canty.
Canty from the NY Giants is interested?
Repost from other thread:
You really need to do more research when there are "fluctuations."
Trent Taylor and Carlos Henderson graduated and went to the NFL. That is what happened. Taylor alone accounted for 100 yards per game.
Remember what happened to RU's passing game when Carroo graduated?
And you can't pin this on Fitch, because he did not recruit the kids behind Taylor and Henderson.
I am more interested how Taylor's (La Tech was his only offer) production went from 1282 yards and 9 TDs to 1803 yards and 12 TDs from 2015 to 2016 when Fitch got there. That is a 50% improvement in production.
Or how Carlos Henderson (a low 3 star) went form 774 yards and 6 TDs in 2015 to 1535 yards and 19 TDs in 2016 after Fitch got there. That's almost 100% improvement in production.
I'll take Fitch in a heartbeat.
http://footballscoop.com/news/todd-fitchjoe-sloan-footballscoop-2016-wide-receivers-coaches-year/
Todd Fitch and Joe Sloan are the 2016 FootballScoop Wide Receivers Coaches of the Year.
Louisiana Tech’s wide receiving corps is led by the best 1-2 punch in college football, and one of the best in
Trent Taylor leads the Bulldogs this season with 98 grabs for 1,570 yards and 10 touchdowns, placing him in the top five pass-catchers in Louisiana Tech history and No. 4 among active wide receivers.
On the other side is Carlos Henderson, who represents Louisiana Tech’s big play threat with 72 grabs for 1,406 yards and 17 touchdowns. Together, the pair ranks Nos. 7 and 8 nationally in receiving yards per game, one of a handful of duos to both rank in the top-10 since the FootballScoop Coach of the Year program began. Henderson ranks second nationally in yards per reception among all players with at least 70 grabs
Fitch, who is also Louisiana Tech’s offensive coordinator, has spent more than 30 years in coaching, with stints under College Football Hall of Famers Don Nehlen, Earle Bruce and Lou Holtz to his credit. Fitch deposited coordinator stints under head coach Skip Holtz at East Carolina and South Florida as well as Boston College before reuniting with Holtz before this season.
I posted this in the other thread but I won't take him in a heartbeat. I'll take Carty over him even though he wasn't near the top of my list.
Between Fitch and Carty I'll take Carty. Fitch is long time coach who has followed Skip Holtz around much of his career and I don't think has done much noticeable. Holtz is also pretty involved in the offense too during their tenures together at different stops. Out on his own, Fitch was demoted from being a coordinator at BC after being promoted the previous year and that's when he decided to rejoin Holtz at La. Tech. I don't know about their previous stops but at La. Tech Holtz is the one calling the plays, so that nice year last year is Holtz to me more than Fitch and frankly any of the other stops they've been together at too from UConn, East Carolina, USF and now La. Tech. To me Fitch is a known quantity and it doesn't seem to impressive.
Carty on the other hand has had okay stats at New Hampshire but there may be potential there for better. Don't know. While he's not on the top of my list either I'll take that unknown with a possibility for greater potential over a known eh at best Fitch.
A look at some of the rankings of Todd Fitch as OC, his BC stint was the only time he was on his own without Holtz and Holtz is calling the plays at La Tech currently.
Year - YPG - PPG
La Tech (Holtz calling plays)
2017 - 62 - 48
2016 - 9 - 2
BC
2015 - 126 - 121 (promoted to OC this year after having been PGC/WR coach prior 2 years)
2014 - 83 - 88 (PGC/WR)
2013 - 94 - 71 (PGC/WR)
USF (with Holtz)
2012 - 94 - 106
2011 - 30 - 48
2010 - 105 - 87
East Carolina (with Holtz)
2009 - 67 - 62
2008 - 79 - 81
2007 66 - 44
He also had a stint with Holtz at UConn but I didn't bother to look up those stats.
Brian Wright at Toledo is very realistic. I've said this a few times he's making mid 100Ks at Toledo so it can't be money. Partridge fired him at FAU so maybe that's tainting him. I prefer him to Carty and Fitch. Again it's 2 sided sometimes its the candidate sometimes it may be Ash's preferences etc...We can't know.
Graham Harrell I like too but that has the caveat of TT. I don't know what going on there. He only makes 200K. He's a little greener than I'd like but 2 years OC with a big jump in the 2nd year and qb and pedigree with Leach isn't anything to sneeze at. Not ideal but preferable to Carty and Fitch IMO.
But again I'll take Carty over Fitch because there's potential there possibly Fitch I see much less. He's a long time coach at the side of Holtz and the one time he's not with him it's terrible.
EDIT: Cramsey at SHSU is another one.
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Has it not been fairly definitively established that Wright is not a candidate?
So you are down to Graham Harrell?
Rumor has it that Chris Ash is reviewing in-game and post game posts made on Scarlet Nation.com and is expected to bring a couple of posters in to gauge their interest in the vacant OC position. Its thought they pay cut they would have to take would preclude most from interviewing.
He's not a candidate why? I don't care what they say. He's available and realistic that's the criteria. Not that he's not a candidate for a reason we don't know.
I also mentioned Cramsey and I suppose he's not realistic too at SHSU.
Graham Harrell is quite interesting - but some of his attributes will be only semi-attractive "nice to haves" for RU while they could be hugely valued "must haves" by Texas schools - like his name recognition and his Texas recruiting connections - for RU he might be a 'maybe' - but some Texas or near-Texas program might excitedly say "let's take him"
Remember Ash really really needs to get this one right - an obvious gamble that fails is strike three - -
My thing is aptitude and demonstration of it more than anything else. I'd like to see background of it. If you've shown it, the longer the better obviously, the better I feel about it.
It's also a thread to pull on should he ever leave back to Texas. There so many Leach coaches out there and cousins of it like Briles' tree so you have others that can help maintain continuity even if not in the same person.
The UCF thread reminded me of Mike Kruzek. Does his name ever get brought up in OC searches? Experience as a HC and as OC/QB coach in the NFL. Probably wouldn't cost much either.
Dude...that DOES NOT make him a "candidate." That's simply your definition of our search parameters.
I think of the two (Fitch / Carty) I'd be inclined toward Carty, as well. I'm not a fan of the Holtz coaching tree and Skip never really impressed me. Fitch seems unable to truly separate from him, so that's a flag. Carty has been stable (even though he might not be a Stable Genius) and he knows New Jersey.
I was asked to name a realistic and available at the top of my list and that's exactly what I did. You can say someone is unrealistic or unavailable if it would cost us too much or they are at a big status program, etc... outside of that pretty much everyone is a potential candidate.
Now Ash might not want them or what not, so be it but the question asked to me wasn't who do you want out of the guys that Ash has under consideration (which I've answered assuming Fitch/Carty) it's who do you want that's realistic and available and that's exactly what I answered.
Heard Carty wouldn't be a great hire.
Ho hum with yet another OC search. It's a one year gig anyway. So who cares.
Ho hum with yet another OC search. It's a one year gig anyway. So who cares.
Didn't realize it was a question previously asked of you was simply responding to the post, as such, my bad!
Did I miss something? Are we looking for a WR coach as well as an OC and DL coach? There have been a couple of references to Acosta as a staff addition. Has Williams moved on?
She's more of a baseball fan that football.
She's worth $20 million, not including being married to Verlander.
From who? Your grocer? At Subway? Someone who doesn't like him and would prefer someone else?
I am starting to think ash is waiting for national championship game to end tonight so he can hire saban. I can’t believe saban stayed behind to coach his team in not one - but two - Bowl games!
A college football coach, who yes, thinks someone else would be a better fit. No big deal. Just what I heard. Fwiw this person liked wright...And again don't care at this point. Not bc I'm giving up or being fair-weather or whatever. Just bc, ah I don't care. I'll still be a fan and go to every game. Just a little fatigued
Because of one man's opinion? (yeah, there are a lot of reasons to be fatigued).
Not at all.
In general, with the program. Esp the OC revolving door. And yes the current front runners don't inspire me much independently, but I don't know enough regarding them so partly I'm putting some stock in an opinion. Either way I don't feel very strongly, bc again just tired.
I look at it this way. Chris Ash's greatest failing so far is the OC. Mehringer was a disaster. Kill had some highly desirable characteristics, and he was limited in what he could have done last year, but I would have preferred someone who had more recent OC experience.
I actually prefer this search to drag out as long as possible, as long as Ash (and maybe Hobbs) are culling through, interviewing and making decisions on a number of candidates. We will probably never know who was seriously considered and why candidates like Canada and Mazzone passed (or were passed over), but you can be certain Ash realizes the next OC has to break the cycle. I'm actually more comfortable with Carty, as he has strong NJ connections (something a vocal contingent of fans has been screaming for), a decent resume (yeah, his team's production has fallen off lately), and he seems like a guy who will stick around for a while. I'm OK with Fitch, but his jumping around and following Skip Holtz at every stop gives me pause (as well as him losing the OC job at BC).
Bottom line, the offense can't sink any lower than it did in the last two years, so better days are ahead, right?
No matter who the OC is, he's going to need players. You can't win consistently with 'smoke & mirrors'. Whether the recruits are from NJ or elsewhere, RU needs to get their share of players that are also being heavily recruited by P5 schools. If you don't consistently get those type of recruits, the best you can expect is a middle of pack conference that may infrequently spring an upset.
Just an update not related to us but again to get gist of the movement happening.
Leach has hired former Minnesota DC/HC Tracy Claeys has his DC at WSU.
Orgeron has elevated Ensminger to OC as expected at LSU.
Besides money etc possibly being issues..one other thing I've noticed with some of the hirings of coordinators is that some of them bring along a coach or two they know. Just a couple I've seen recently. John Chavis is bringing along Ron Cooper to Arkansas. Nate Woody is bringing an App. State coach with him to GT. I've seen some others too in the past. It doesn't always happen but it does sometimes. I wonder if that might not have been an issue with some like Mazzone and son or maybe some of the other "name" candidates who wanted some staff control on the offensive side of the ball.
Leach has hired former Minnesota DC/HC Tracy Claeys has his DC at WSU.
Orgeron has elevated Ensminger to OC as expected at LSU.
Besides money etc possibly being issues..one other thing I've noticed with some of the hirings of coordinators is that some of them bring along a coach or two they know. Just a couple I've seen recently. John Chavis is bringing along Ron Cooper to Arkansas. Nate Woody is bringing an App. State coach with him to GT. I've seen some others too in the past. It doesn't always happen but it does sometimes. I wonder if that might not have been an issue with some like Mazzone and son or maybe some of the other "name" candidates who wanted some staff control on the offensive side of the ball.
All I know is that I’m done trying to guess. I can’t possibly understand what could be taking so long and how tight lipped everything is, it’s amazing!
This is true, but that is why you have to improve incrementally. Our defense is taking steps up the ladder slowly as Ash molds it to what he wants it to be. You can see already that Ash is a very good defensive coach. Its the same as what happened under Schiano. You play a little better first...then you recruit a little better. Then you play a little better, then you recruit better, etc.
But it is not chicken and egg, as I have seen written here. Very occasionally, teams get a kid they shouldn't, and it changes things. Very occasionally, coaches can recruit above their capabilities, and a team can improve soelly through attracting more and more talented players (see PSU). But its rare. More often, success comes as coaches coach up better and better players (see Wisconsin, MSU).
At Rutgers, our offense is not going to improve incrementally, and we are not going to be able to attract better offensive recruits unless we find stability with an OC and a system, and start coaching players up. Right now, the Rutgers offense is a black hole as far as player development goes. That is what has to be fixed, and if it isnt, Ash won't be here in 4 years to finish building his defense.
This is true, but the OC has an effect on that. Surely watching the Mehringer/Kill offense these last two years has turned off at least a few recruits.