RU Offense Held Hostage: Day 6

[Dpgru]

if Messingham were to be the choice - what would be the compelling argument for him ? what would be the distinctive talents & personal accomplishments that could make the case for why he would be able to effectively identify the needs - define the strategy for improvement and successfully implement an effective offense?
Yes he has been in key positions in the past - but in most cases it appears that he has come into & taken control of - an already developed offense. He was fired by Paul Rhoads at Iowa State. He as only been at NDSU for 11 months - so he did not write the recipe for what they have cooked up there.
Don't want to be negative - He may be a fantastic person and have a wealth of knowledge - just looking for the compelling reasons that he should be viewed as a strong candidate for a B1G OC spot - a spot that is going to require vision & an innate sense of how to refine & rearrange all of the moving parts to achieve the improvement and true coherency that is desperately needed.

It is possible that the only compelling argument might be that he is the only one deemed competitant by Ash who actually wants to be here. Not that we would ever be told that.

 

[ScarletStateofNJ]

I'm thinking that a "king fish" just got into the water.

please explain

 

[ScarletStateofNJ]

IMHO:

Current Drama Level on SN - 5.5
Where It Should Be Today: 3.5 (4 come Monday...5/5/5 come next Friday based on what we hear or don't hear maybe a 6)

You want someone in place on Jan 11 so they can start working on flipping players, since that is the day the recruiting quiet period is over.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

A Little Too green. Drew Mehringer 2.0

He is greener than I'd like and I have suggested him as sort of a junior co-OC for that reason. BUT if we're striking out on our first tier guys I'd deal with it.

Even though he's green I don't see him as the same as DM. DM was a coordinator for 1 year at the FCS level and a grad assistant. Harrell was a qb for Leach at TT, went to work for him as WR coach for a year at WSU and has been OC at North Texas with Seth Littrell (another Leach guy) for the last 2 years. First year wasn't so great rankings in the 100s IIRC but this year his 2nd the rankings improved to the 20s. Leach guys usually know offense. That background to me is much better than DM.

The Toledo OC Wright is a good name but since we haven't heard much about him lately I kinda wonder about him like Gilbert in that does he want to leave or are his sites sent on a bigger name school. TT, Illinois, Mizzou, South Carolina are all looking for OCs as well.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

A Little Too green. Drew Mehringer 2.0

Who knows - but would seem that a 32 year old Graham Harrell should not be dismissed right off the bat - with some significant college & a few seasons of NFL experience, pretty sure he could be a much more developed OC than a 28 year old Drew Mehringer was when he came on board.

Also - somehow , 31 year old Sean McVay seems to be able to figure out how to put things together in a way that works.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

You want someone in place on Jan 11 so they can start working on flipping players, since that is the day the recruiting quiet period is over.

dammit I was off by a day!

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Who knows - but would seem that a 32 year old Graham Harrell should not be dismissed right off the bat - with some significant college & a few seasons of NFL experience, pretty sure he could be a much more developed OC than a 28 year old Drew Mehringer was when he came on board.

Also - somehow , 31 year old Sean McVay seems to be able to figure out how to put things together in a way that works.

There were some damn young, damn good OC's, during bowl season.

 

[rufeelinit]

He is greener than I'd like and I have suggested him as sort of a junior co-OC for that reason. BUT if we're striking out on our first tier guys I'd deal with it.

Even though he's green I don't see him as the same as DM. DM was a coordinator for 1 year at the FCS level and a grad assistant. Harrell was a qb for Leach at TT, went to work for him as WR coach for a year at WSU and has been OC at North Texas with Seth Littrell (another Leach guy) for the last 2 years. First year wasn't so great rankings in the 100s IIRC but this year his 2nd the rankings improved to the 20s. Leach guys usually know offense. That background to me is much better than DM.

The Toledo OC Wright is a good name but since we haven't heard much about him lately I kinda wonder about him like Gilbert in that does he want to leave or are his sites sent on a bigger name school. TT, Illinois, Mizzou, South Carolina are all looking for OCs as well.

And maybe the fact that all those others still have openings is why we remain unsettled. Not sure how many common names would on those lists given the distinct compensation differences but otherwise it makes little sense not have someone now. South Carolina has been taking awhile too although at least they had a bowl game to deal with.

I agree Ash needs to get this right. I am not sure any of these candidates are really going to help with recruiting particularly with the last couple of 2018 slots. The NDSU guy seems like another Midwest oriented guy who would need to learn the local areas. Then only thing they will be selling is a new scheme.

 

[BOGDANOVICH]

I just heard that Ash has talked to "more than a handful of guys": McNulty, Longo, Mazzone, Enos. He also reached out to Frank Cignetti Jr. Don't know what the outcome was but it sounds like RU might be working their way down their plan B list. Was told that Ash is going to be formally interviewing guys now and "will probably have some one in place within a couple of weeks"

"A couple of weeks?" He must be planning a decision by the beginning of spring practice. Wonderful.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

"A couple of weeks?" He must be planning a decision by the beginning of spring practice. Wonderful.

I heard it's gonna be in an hour.


(see what I did there? Don't listen to what just any ol' poster has to say....)

 

[ATIOH]

Well there is a little bit of a rush....Jan 11th we can talk to recruits again, we will be in a bad position without an OC...

You want someone in place on Jan 11 so they can start working on flipping players, since that is the day the recruiting quiet period is over.

There's some confusion, so I'll quote one of my previous posts. We are in a "Dead Period" right now... but that's essentially meaningless:

During a dead period, you can still call, text, and DM their socials. Basically 95% of how you recruit a teenager.

The only restrictions are in-person.
​

There's no silver lining to being understaffed right now.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Again not related to us but just to get a feel of movement happening. Grinch looks to be official from WSU to OSU as co-DC with Schiano. Fisher seems to have to gotten a very solid alternative IMO to Aranda in ND DC Mike Elko. If he continues to develop I'd like to think he could be a HC for us down the line somewhere if we ever needed it.

Bruce Feldman‏Verified account@BruceFeldmanCFB 13m13 minutes ago
SOURCES: Alex Grinch turned down multiple offers from big schools that would've meant more money so he could work with Urban Meyer and be at #OhioState.


Mark Schlabach‏Verified account@Mark_Schlabach 1h1 hour ago
Two big coaching hires: Notre Dame DC Mike Elko joins Jimbo Fisher's staff at Texas A&M (@BruceFeldmanCFB) and DC Alex Grinch leaving Washington State to become Ohio State's co-DC (@ClowESPN)

 

[Block R]

There's no silver lining to being understaffed right now.

True, although it's not the crisis some are making it out to be either. For the remainder of the 2018 class we'll only take a few more recruits plus a grad transfer so the staff will be shifting their focus to 2019 recruits. As others have said and I don't think it is an exaggeration, Ash's future is dependent on the success of this hire so if more time is required to get the right guy, so be it.

 

[ScarletStateofNJ]

And maybe the fact that all those others still have openings is why we remain unsettled. Not sure how many common names would on those lists given the distinct compensation differences but otherwise it makes little sense not have someone now. South Carolina has been taking awhile too although at least they had a bowl game to deal with.

I agree Ash needs to get this right. I am not sure any of these candidates are really going to help with recruiting particularly with the last couple of 2018 slots. The NDSU guy seems like another Midwest oriented guy who would need to learn the local areas. Then only thing they will be selling is a new scheme.

Is Longo staying at Ole Miss?

 

[MorrisAsh]

Scratch Enos off your lists. He’s going to Michigan as their WR coach. Unbelievable!

 

[_dave_]

How many people did he interview to come up with Mehringer as a choice.

My impression is that he interviewed very few candidates. Mehringer was highly recommended by Herman, and Ash trusted Herman 100%. As an aside, last year Herman hired Mehringer again so I don't think that he was messing with Ash, he genuinely thinks that Mehringer is an up and coming coach.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Scratch Enos off your lists. He’s going to Michigan as their WR coach. Unbelievable!

Uhm...okay...Arkansas isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut these days.

 

[NickKnight 1]

My impression is that he interviewed very few candidates. Mehringer was highly recommended by Herman, and Ash trusted Herman 100%. As an aside, last year Herman hired Mehringer again so I don't think that he was messing with Ash, he genuinely thinks that Mehringer is an up and coming coach.

Thanks, What you say makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Lawesome]

The silence is deafening. It is said that Ash is a very detai oriented guy and if we learned anything with the Kill hire we’ve learned that Ash is unpredictable. Don’t be surprised if he goes the route of getting a current FCS head coach or someone who has previous HC experience either. I mean who the hell saw Kill coming! Look at Bobby Wilder, the HC at Old Dominion, as a solid choice.

Laugh all you want but the current OC at Oklahoma State came from DII Shippensburg and he’s done pretty well so don’t discount anything.

I would be very happy with Canada or Mazzone too.

Now on to the defensive side of the ball. What about Bob D’aco as DL coach?

 

[Dpgru]

The silence is deafening. It is said that Ash is a very detai oriented guy and if we learned anything with the Kill hire we’ve learned that Ash is unpredictable. Don’t be surprised if he goes the route of getting a current FCS head coach or someone who has previous HC experience either. I mean who the hell saw Kill coming! Look at Bobby Wilder, the HC at Old Dominion, as a solid choice.
Laugh all you want but the current OC at Oklahoma State came from DII Shippensburg and he’s done pretty well so don’t discount anything.
I would be very happy with Canada or Mazzone too.

Now on to the defensive side of the ball. What about Bob D’aco as DL coach?

I find myself agreeing with many of your points. I first read your NDS OC post on another thread and mentioned it here. Knight Shift ran with it. But your point here is valid. Ash has been able to run the show here and although it is only two plus years he has kept a lot of things under quiet, which probably drives NJ.com nuts and that is always good, but a former HC may be a good route. Some HCs kind of burn out and don't mind returning to a coordinator role where they can concentrate on what they love doing which is coaching football. I am not up on any names but it is am option. However, if that was the route Ash was going I would think he would have that done by now. So the timing tells me that may not be the way he is going,?

 

[Lawesome]

Valid point. I just get the sense that Ash took comfort in the fact that he had someone(Kill) on the offensive side of the ball that he didn’t have to worry about. I just can’t wait to hear the press conference when the choice is made and why the choice was made.

Also look at the OC at Central Michigan, and offensive innovator and a Jersey guy.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

The silence is deafening. It is said that Ash is a very detai oriented guy and if we learned anything with the Kill hire we’ve learned that Ash is unpredictable. Don’t be surprised if he goes the route of getting a current FCS head coach or someone who has previous HC experience either. I mean who the hell saw Kill coming! Look at Bobby Wilder, the HC at Old Dominion, as a solid choice.

Laugh all you want but the current OC at Oklahoma State came from DII Shippensburg and he’s done pretty well so don’t discount anything.

I would be very happy with Canada or Mazzone too.

Now on to the defensive side of the ball. What about Bob D’aco as DL coach?

Ash can be as unpredictable as he wants (or maybe as much as Hobbs will tolerate) but regardless of whether the choice is conventional or wildly out of the box - it better work - it absolutely cannot end up being an ineffective head-scratcher ....

and even if there are lots of challenges and it is hard to get things rolling, this OC better display creativity and real vision - this OC absolutely cannot keep doing the same thing over and over and over - with mediocre results.

 

[Lawesome]

Totally agree!! I don’t care if they bring in the OC from William Paterson, if he can develop players and keep us in games I’m all for him.

 

[Block R]

Surprised nobody posted this from Football Scoop yet (http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/):

Rutgers: Source tells FootballScoop Toledo offensive coordinator Brian Wright is a candidate for the same position at Rutgers.

I think this would be a very good hire if it comes to fruition.

 

[Dpgru]

Ash can be as unpredictable as he wants (or maybe as much as Hobbs will tolerate) but regardless of whether the choice is conventional or wildly out of the box - it better work - it absolutely cannot end up being an ineffective head-scratcher ....

and even if there are lots of challenges and it is hard to get things rolling, this OC better display creativity and real vision - this OC absolutely cannot keep doing the same thing over and over and over - with mediocre results.

Agree completely. For the past two years we have been running an offense that seems to have been designed to run clock, keep it close and then we could go after in the 4th qtr. We need an offense that looks to move the ball and score. DM tried to run a spread but it was just a screw up. Last year it often looked like we weren't even planning on scoring. I want an OC that actually has a game plan designed to score.

 

[Dpgru]

Surprised nobody posted this from Football Scoop yet (http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/):

Rutgers: Source tells FootballScoop Toledo offensive coordinator Brian Wright is a candidate for the same position at Rutgers.

I think this would be a very good hire if it comes to fruition.

There may be many candidates. But as I have said before on multiple threads, how many actually want to be here and how many are using us, just like some recruits, as a placeholder until they get a better offer elsewhere. I would like someone who wants to be here rather than just settles for the job because there was nothing better. That person will bolt as soon as another offer appears.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Surprised nobody posted this from Football Scoop yet (http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/):

Rutgers: Source tells FootballScoop Toledo offensive coordinator Brian Wright is a candidate for the same position at Rutgers.

I think this would be a very good hire if it comes to fruition.

I'd be happy with that name. Been wondering what's taking so long though if he's the guy. Who is waiting on who. Is he waiting for a better offer or do we have someone else in mind. I think he's a solid name as other candidates out there.

 

[Lawesome]

That must have JUST posted on FootballScoop, I stalk that site daily. Lol

 

[Block R]

There may be many candidates. But as I have said before on multiple threads, how many actually want to be here and how many are using us, just like some recruits, as a placeholder until they get a better offer elsewhere. I would like someone who wants to be here rather than just settles for the job because there was nothing better. That person will bolt as soon as another offer appears.

Of course, that's a potential risk with any candidate/recruit. How do you know for sure who is being genuine and who is using you for a promotion/better offer? The bottom line is that Wright has had success at lower levels as an OC and I would be happy with this hire if it panned out. If he has great success and moves on after this year it would suck, but it would also mean our offense was drastically improved and our opening might be more attractive for the next candidate.

 

[koleszar]

There may be many candidates. But as I have said before on multiple threads, how many actually want to be here and how many are using us, just like some recruits, as a placeholder until they get a better offer elsewhere. I would like someone who wants to be here rather than just settles for the job because there was nothing better. That person will bolt as soon as another offer appears.

If Wright came here his salary would almost triple if we pay what we paid Kill. I would have to think that would make him want to be here. He's proven himself on the G5 level, those are the type of coaches we should be hiring with what we can afford.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Surprised nobody posted this from Football Scoop yet (http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/):

Rutgers: Source tells FootballScoop Toledo offensive coordinator Brian Wright is a candidate for the same position at Rutgers.

I think this would be a very good hire if it comes to fruition.

Would be a HUGE IF we land him as he is BOTH the OC and QB Coach. Anyone questioning this is nuts. This guy is an "open the wallet" hire IMHO:

Toledo's O the last 2 years:

2017:

14) 483.9 ypg
16) 36.4 ppg

2016:

7) 517.8 ypg
19) 48 PPG

http://stats.ncaa.org/teams/66688?u...=113634&commit=Submit&org_sport_name=&org_id=

 

[Block R]

That must have JUST posted on FootballScoop, I stalk that site daily. Lol

I've been stalking that site as well. They are definitely clued in to what is going on. Doesn't mean we will hire Wright but it likely means he is a serious candidate.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Canada may be free soon for someone as well. From footballscoop.

LSU: LSU officials are “deep in settlement talks” with Matt Canada’s representatives reports Ross Dellenger who covers the Tigers for The Advocate. The University owes Canada just over $3 million. Per Dellenger’s tweet “the end is near.” Dellenger adds the separation should be complete by the end of the weekend.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

If Wright came here his salary would almost triple if we pay what we paid Kill. I would have to think that would make him want to be here. He's proven himself on the G5 level, those are the type of coaches we should be hiring with what we can afford.

I've mentioned his salary before. It was like mid 100K IIRC but Candle was given a bump in salary pool with his new contract. Even then, we would still likely be a 2.5-3 times bump for him in salary. The only issue would be is do we have competition for him or are we looking at anyone else. He's as solid a choice as other mentioned IMO.

 

[Knight Shift]

Maybe Ash is holding off until Canada is set free. If no Canada, then plan B is Wright. I have no inside knowledge, just reading tea leaves.

 

[Knight Shift]

Would be a HUGE IF we land him as he is BOTH the OC and QB Coach. Anyone questioning this is nuts. This guy is an "open the wallet" hire IMHO:

Toledo's O the last 2 years:

2017:

14) 483.9 ypg
16) 36.4 ppg

2016:

7) 517.8 ypg
19) 48 PPG

http://stats.ncaa.org/teams/66688?utf8=✓&year_id=66688&sport_id=113634&commit=Submit&org_sport_name=&org_id=

Would that make anyone questioning this hire a relative of yours?

 

[tru2ru1]

If Wright came here his salary would almost triple if we pay what we paid Kill. I would have to think that would make him want to be here. He's proven himself on the G5 level, those are the type of coaches we should be hiring with what we can afford.

Just because RU paid Kill $600k does not mean that is what they would pay for a Wright or a Carty, salary will depend on who is hired & what they are considered to be worth.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Maybe Ash is holding off until Canada is set free. If no Canada, then plan B is Wright. I have no inside knowledge, just reading tea leaves.

I actually kind of like Wright better than Canada but what you say is possible. Could save some money with Canada though as the LSU settlement may help that. I'd like to think there would be no chance of personality conflicts with Wright as well as opposed to Canada where that could be an issue.

 

[MorrisAsh]

I would get this guy :

http://utrockets.com/coaches.aspx?rc=319&path=football

Although, Ash's buddy Charlie Partridge fired him a few years ago, so maybe he's not on the list.

I must be ahead of the curve

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

I must be ahead of the curve

He was mentioned even last year but we went with Kill. A second year of strong results with Toledo certainly doesn't hurt his case.