OT: Alec Baldwin killed someone on the set.

[Dawgbite]

My question is why do they make prop guns in the exact same caliber as real guns? Yes, I know prop guns can kill you with a blank but, if you made the prop gun slightly off caliber, you couldn't shove a 9mm, .38 or .45 in it when nobody was looking or by mistake.

I saw a documentary once about movie guns and in most cases with close ups they use real guns because they are cheaper and more readily available than copies that are close enough to be scrutinized. For action shots and drop the weapon type stuff they are rubber guns so not to damage the real guns. John Wayne only used his own personal guns in a lot of his westerns. There was more than one mistake made in this instance with Baldwin.

 

[mstateglfr]

Dumbass?? Can’t be an accident?

He pointed a real gun at someone… prop gun or not… at someone and pulled the trigger. Without checking the gun himself first. That = dumb *** according to the thinking presented. Not tragedy.

What is a huge anti-firearm guy making movies glorifying outlaws with firearms anyway?????

Holy ****, is this difference really not something that some of you can understand?

- are actors expected to understand and know if what they have is live or blank ammo? there are prop masters for a reason- they manage the props and walk actors thru safety, then also can help with placement of people to offset from the guns. I also wouldnt expect an actor to know how to identify or manage live C4 if they are told its fake.
- you do realize that acting and real life are different, right? Someone can be a KKK leader in a movie, but that doesnt mean they think that way in real life. Similarly, someone can support gun restrictions in real life yet shoot a gun in a movie. Again, movies are fiction, which means they are make believe.

To be clear, I really dont think Baldwin is a great person. He was funny on 30rock, but I recognize that is a character on a fictitious show.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

Let me point out that the person killed wasn't one of actors. She was the cinematographer. So, why was a gun being pointed at her at all? With someone's finger on the trigger no less?

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

I'm no fan, but I mean, presumably he didn't know the gun was loaded with live rounds and had no reason to expect it to be (maybe he did though, who knows). Those other folks presumably knew their guns were loaded with live ammo. That's one difference.

if you pick up a firearm…. The first thing you do is check it. If you are handing it to someone… it should be with the gun open and unable to fire with the safety on if it has one. Then.. the first thing the person receiving it does is check it again. Everytime.

 

[FQDawg]

Let me point out that the person killed wasn't one of actors. She was the cinematographer. So, why was a gun being pointed at her at all? With someone's finger on the trigger no less?

That's a fair question but I'm guessing they were just simply walking through the scene to set up the blocking or something along those lines.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

Holy ****, is this difference really not something that some of you can understand?

- are actors expected to understand and know if what they have is live or blank ammo? .

if they are handling a real firearm… YES! They absolutely should. No questions. Zero.

if the Pope hands you a glock 40 and says it’s unloaded… his guards agree.. a reincarnated Charlton Heston nods s yes…. YOU CHECK IT ANYWAY.

 

[patdog]

- are actors expected to understand and know if what they have is live or blank ammo?

Hell yes, they're expected to know. As well as the prop masters. Which, by the way, Alec Baldwin hired cheaper non-union prop masters for this movie.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Got to give to you glfr, you're the most relentless troll I've seen.

 

[GloryDawg]

That is weird. How could it happen? Sounds like a tv murder mystery episode.

I believe Law and Order had one.

 

[mstateglfr]

if they are handling a real firearm… YES! They absolutely should. No questions. Zero.

if the Pope hands you a glock 40 and says it’s unloaded… his guards agree.. a reincarnated Charlton Heston nods s yes…. YOU CHECK IT ANYWAY.

I know they go thru safety lessons, but does that mean actors can tell the difference in what they are shooting? Can they tell blank cartridges from live ammo?
I genuinely dont know. You seem to say they do. I would say they should, but if that isnt something thats realistic then they shouldnt.

Why they use real guns at all is odd. VFX can make it look like a hand recoils and can create different smoke patterns from a gun at this point, just use some black toy guns and add effects.

 

[mstateglfr]

Hell yes, they're expected to know. As well as the prop masters. Which, by the way, Alec Baldwin hired cheaper non-union prop masters for this movie.

I have read actors are walked thru how to handle prop guns. Does that include knowing the difference between live and blank ammo? Props and stunts should be managed by experts and actors arent experts at those things.

As for the non-union prop master- ok, noted.

 

[GloryDawg]

I saw a documentary once about movie guns and in most cases with close ups they use real guns because they are cheaper and more readily available than copies that are close enough to be scrutinized. For action shots and drop the weapon type stuff they are rubber guns so not to damage the real guns. John Wayne only used his own personal guns in a lot of his westerns. There was more than one mistake made in this instance with Baldwin.

You would think with the quality of CGI now days, the gun would not even need to fire.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

I have read actors are walked thru how to handle prop guns. Does that include knowing the difference between live and blank ammo? Props and stunts should be managed by experts and actors arent experts at those things.

As for the non-union prop master- ok, noted.

Blank rounds and real rounds can be easily be seen and distinguished which is which. Easily. A glance can let you know if you need to investigate further.

You check the gun.. and if there is any question you ask. Check.. then ask. Make absolutely sure.

if he would have done that, we wouldn’t have heard about this movie till the early trailers.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to CGI, but why is there a need to have anything that really fires anything on the set these days?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Isn't that also how Brandon LeWe died on the set of The Crow?

Yes. The latest UNVERIFIED is that someone put a live round in. WTF?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

You're right.

Here's the start of a twitter thread about that I thought was interesting:

I’m devastated by the death of a DP by a prop gun. A few thoughts (thread):Armorers are amazing professionals to work with, but maybe it’s time that we stop shooting blanks entirely & make it the policy to only use Airsoft guns (or similar) & muzzle flash in post.— Ben Rockula (@Neptunesalad) October 22, 2021

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

well the guy made fun of Cheney for accidentally shooting the guy he was quail hunting with. He has made multiple tweets of people “that should be shot”. He eviscerated that woman cop that pulled her service weapon instead of a taser. He butts in and demands accountability in any officer involved shooting that hits the news.

So why is this guy off limits?

I have liked most of his acting roles but the man is loud voice of ultra liberalism when it comes to politics. Unless he is in a movie or tv show I turn the channel as soon as he opens his mouth. He almost makes Whoopie Goldberg look like a moderate.

 

[bolddogge]

E V E R Y T I M E.

 

[Dawgg]

It's game day eve and this is the most active thread on the site.

 

[dorndawg]

I'm a lifetime NRA member. I'm the guy that if the FBI ever raids my house there will be an article in tomorrow's paper about a gun nut with over a hundred guns removed from the streets for public safety so I'll answer your question. Yes, you should have to have training in gun safety before you ever purchase your first gun. I learned to handle a gun from my father. I can remember going out in the back yard and practice crossing a barb wire fence. Approach the fence, unload the gun, hand the gun over the fence and prop it against a tree or post, never the wire fence, cross the fence, and reload the gun. I might have to do it ten times before my father was satisfied. A lot a people who are buying guns today learned to handle a gun on a video game, that concerns me. You have to take classes and pass a test to drive a car and there are still people on the road with zero business behind the wheel. A gun has great power and with great power comes great responsibility. I don't know the particulars of Baldwins accident but I'd bet at least part of it stems from ignorance of handling a gun and common sense gun safety that I learned as a child.

Preach

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

It's technically a BFA (blank firing adapter.) While it does add an element of safety, the primary purpose is to create some back pressure on the gas from the blanks in order for the bolt to cycle on an M-16/M-4 so another round can be chambered. Doesn't work for **** either.

 

[dawglawz]

Right. I didn't say he didn't deserve any blame. You asked why this situation was different than the others you listed. I was pointing out the difference in the situations, that's all.

 

[johnson86-1]

That's a fair question but I'm guessing they were just simply walking through the scene to set up the blocking or something along those lines.

Supposedly, according to the interwebs, which are never wrong, they called for another take and he jokingly said something along the lines of "another take, how about I just shoot you instead" pointed the gun and pulled the trigger, went through one person and lodged in another. The male director has so far lived and the female set person died.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

Alec Baldwin can get ******. I hate this happened to him, and it's a sad sad story for him and especially for the lady who was killed, but it doesn't make Alec Baldwin any less human excrement.

Is gun safety not a top priority in Hollywood just as it is around my house? Anybody that ever handles a firearm should be trained in gun safety. I'm a member of the NRA and fully support everything related to gun rights, but my god they are dangerous.

 

[mstateglfr]

Blank rounds and real rounds can be easily be seen and distinguished which is which. Easily. A glance can let you know if you need to investigate further.

You check the gun.. and if there is any question you ask. Check.. then ask. Make absolutely sure.

if he would have done that, we wouldn’t have heard about this movie till the early trailers.

Yeah, it is tough for me to say this is the responsibility of each actor. I get it- know how to handle guns even if they are shooting blanks, and I would 100% want to check each time if I had to shoot a gun for acting, but I dont expect them to be experts on props and stunts. Thats why there are people hired specifically for those things. I also wouldnt expect a random actor to know the difference between real c4 and prop c4. They are given a prop and by definition it isnt meant to do the thing it can do in real life.


If he was dicking around though- jail time.

 

[patdog]

I seriously doubt this is even remotely close to being true. But, if it is, this might be a criminal negligence matter and not just an accident.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Isn’t that the damn truth? He’s like a six year old trying to get the last word refusing to believe he’s capable of holding a weak view. You can always count on him to pipe in with the latest far-left hot take.

 

[mcdawg22]

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to CGI, but why is there a need to have anything that really fires anything on the set these days?

Because it’s more expensive.

 

[Cooterpoot]

View attachment 22488

 

[johnson86-1]

Yeah, it is tough for me to say this is the responsibility of each actor. I get it- know how to handle guns even if they are shooting blanks, and I would 100% want to check each time if I had to shoot a gun for acting, but I dont expect them to be experts on props and stunts. Thats why there are people hired specifically for those things. I also wouldnt expect a random actor to know the difference between real c4 and prop c4. They are given a prop and by definition it isnt meant to do the thing it can do in real life.


If he was dicking around though- jail time.

If you are handling a gun, it is your responsibility to be safe. People keep calling this a prop gun, and that is not really an accurate phrasing. It was a real gun being used as a prop. It was very likely criminal negligence by somebody (not that I expect anybody to suffer consequences here). If somebody gave Baldwin that gun and did not tell him it was a real gun (and it was plausible that he might think it was fake), then that seems like recklessness that rises to a criminal level to me. There was likely some level of criminal negligence involved in allowing a live round to get into the chamber. And if Baldwin wasn't told it was a fake gun, and he didn't check it before pointing it around at people and pulling the trigger, that seems like something very close to criminal negligence. I'm not sure you can point a gun at somebody and pull the trigger and claim it was somebody else's responsibility to know whether it was going to fire.

 

[aTotal360]

Hollywood glorifies guns and doesn't want you to have one.

 

[johnson86-1]

I seriously doubt this is even remotely close to being true. But, if it is, this might be a criminal negligence matter and not just an accident.

You are probably right considering how insanely stupid it would have been to do that and how quickly it has come out. Not a lot of time to make it from somebody on set to the internet to a place people would actually read it.

That said, it's hard to imagine how it could have happened at all, so insanely stupid is definitely on the table, even if that particular version of insanely stupid is likely incorrect.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Always seeking attention by taking a contrarian position and 99% of his takes suck. Simply put ... he's a troll.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I saw a documentary once about movie guns and in most cases with close ups they use real guns because they are cheaper and more readily available than copies that are close enough to be scrutinized. For action shots and drop the weapon type stuff they are rubber guns so not to damage the real guns. John Wayne only used his own personal guns in a lot of his westerns. There was more than one mistake made in this instance with Baldwin.

The show runner of "The Boys" just said he will never use prop guns on set again and use VFX muzzle flashes.

Why have they not come up with a less dangerous solution? We have multimillion dollar CGI ability but still use "Blanks" and Prop guns? There should be something by now to eliminate this. It leads to a lot of questions. I have to wonder how a community that is so loud about anti-gun laws did not come with something else themselves and something that is not so expensive that you keep using real guns.

 

[mstateglfr]

Always seeking attention by taking a contrarian position and 99% of his takes suck. Simply put ... he's a troll.

Here is a contrarian position- you dont understand what an internet troll is.

My positions in this thread are...
- I think its a tall ask for actors to be experts on firearms, but not expect them to be experts on explosives, stunts, or other dangerous situations.
- I think shooting someone when hunting is dumb and worse than this because it is known live ammo.
- I think Baldwin was funny in 30Rock, but dont really like him.
- I think CGI should be used more for shooting.
- I think fake guns should be used.

I am comfortable with you disagreeing with me(I assume you do, but you havent really posted any position in this thread), but what is so awful that you would inaccurately call me a troll?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I'm not sure if they have said what type of firearm was used or not. All blanks have either a wad or packing to produce the pressure needed for recoil. Military rifles use a crimped necked casing with a muzzle device to create back pressure to so the action will cycle.
If they were using shotguns period full brass shotgun rounds were being used. Those shells have waxed cardboard wadding rather than a plastic wad. At short range these could surely be deadly. Always remember the golden rules of gun safety & I imagine none of the individuals were ever tough these rules.

Always treat a gun as if it is load unless you have ensured otherwise.
Do not point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy.
Be sure of you target, what is in front of it and behind it.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

In other words, when you bring a real gun into the equation someone can be really killed the minute they don't respect it and treat it like a loaded gun until it is in the case, gun safe, etc.... no matter what. Even if it is "broken down" or has an open chamber... no matter what.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Hollywood glorifies guns and doesn't want you to have one.

Yes, and now they are going to have to own up to the fact their excuse has been to expensive for them to do something else after they have been carrying the antigun banner for years. I also can't wait for the antigun politicians to do their usual preaching.

 

[RocketDawg]

Low budget film. Maybe the person who put the live round in didn't know how to differentiate live from blank. I seriously doubt that Alec Baldwin did it on purpose, nor the person who loaded the gun, but it's a really sad situtation that never should have happened.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

If he was dicking around though- jail time.

Based on his own diagnosis of every shooting. Jail time should be a foregone conclusion. He’s not a good person. He should be afforded the same benefit of the doubt he afforded others, which is none.

 

[DrillFieldDog]

Fundamental rights should not have qualifiers. There is no right to drive a car. Driving (in public) is a privilege granted by the state once you meet the state’s requirements. I agree with the sentiment, but who establishes what constitutes “training”? Pretty sure the training you mention and the training I received from my Dad would not satisfy the bureaucracy. Twenty-one states, including MS, do not require training nor permits to carry openly and/or concealed depending on the state, and yet negligent discharges (there really is no such thing as an accidental discharge) are thankfully rare. Baldwin is an idiot, and he will weasel out of this by going on parade with an anti-gun/anti-2nd Amendment message.