Being that UNC is still playing I think has more of us in depression-mode. Had they lost to Arkansas or Kentucky I think fewer people would be overreacting.
No departure today ?
- Thread starter Duke It Out
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Yeah, that's not really my argument (read more closely please)...and totally invalidating a regular season title seems pretty laughable to me. I'd like to see you make an objective argument for that.
I enjoy the ACC tournament titles immensely but there's no real criteria you could employ to convince me that it's the only standard to measure championships by.
Sure Duke ran the gauntlet this year and certainly earned their trophy but just as in your reference to how our NCAA bracket played out (which itself reads as a pretty arbitrary argument), if you're arguing that Duke's run through the ACCT is somehow more impressive than UNC's regular season schedule, it's entirely plausible that in another season a team could benefit from early upsets in the ACCT and be rewarded with an easier path to the crown. Again, it's nearly impossible to make a strong argument that favors an ACCT title over a regular season title. If anything, the regular season title validates a lengthier body of work.
Regarding our NCAA elimination, it's easy to say that SC was a tough draw now, but you didn't hear that many people bitter about the match-up prior to tipoff. There was concern about it being a relative road game, sure, but I think few on this board at least, really thought highly of any of the SEC schools.
Further, why we would switch places w/ UNC? That argument carries very little water as well. You play the teams in front of you and sometimes you run into a bad match-up or a poor performance, but the tournament rewards flexibility as you're typically not going to play six of the same type of team on the road to a title. If it wasn't SC, there are numerous other teams Duke may have struggled against. No use making excuses for the team at this point.
Definitely not a UNC fan by any degree but I certainly have the right to show respect for what other programs do on the court. Denying their on-court success is just being willfully ignorant.
OK here goes the argument. When there is a regular season played that determines seeding for a post-regular season tournament, the games played to determine seeding are nothing more or less than that. The tournament is what matters. If that's confusing, see college football, NBA, NFL, NHL, .... Or we could do the helms trophy approach.
Right, but that only makes sense in the professional context b/c the regular season directly precedes the playoffs and seeds are exclusively determined by the regular season.
Again, I'm an enthusiastic fan of ACCT titles, but conference tournaments for P5 schools are just an intermediate step to the ultimate prize and winning or not doesn't traditionally impair Duke's opportunity to compete for a title. It might affect seeding, but in that regard, so does the regular season.
I'll agree w/ K's advocacy of the ACCT as a means to getting into a one and done mindset, but there's still the opportunity to play on once eliminated.
Just to clarify, the crux of my original post was just appreciation for the consistency w/ which some schools compete in the regular season. In no way am I decrying Duke's regular season efforts. As a whole, few schools could boast of what they've produced over the last ten or so years (to say nothing of more distant history).
But I'd still argue that they're a bit more uneven than some other schools and I'd argue that it does have some bearing on the team's ability to compete for a national title. Typically, by the time the ACCT starts (if not before) you know what you have and, sure there's always room for surprise (see SC and others), but I think it's a pretty simple argument to say that teams boasting excellent regular season credentials are often the best positioned for tournament success, conference or otherwise. Whereas I think a win or loss in a conference tournament says less about the team's flaws or excellence than the entire body of work does.
Hope that clears things up.
Ok, I'll quit dancing around the whole Bolden thing. He IS lazy. He's slow. Hands , not so good. Slow to get down court. To slow to be a shot blocker. Like a good friend of mine on this board told me on the phone the other day, once he realizes the NBA is not to la-la over him either, he'll probably transfer. He looks to disconnected during games and I'm sure he's the same at practice which ends up getting him right where hes been, *** on the pine. I know everybody here loves him and thats fine, but his transfer won't hurt my feelings. I'll take Javin Delaurier over him every day and twice on Sunday. And yep, we're gonna lose some more folks in the coming days, but it won't be the end of the world. Yes we WILL still be Duke.
I think think that's taking the opposite extreme as some of this board.
Is Bolden lazy? Is he slow? Does he have bad hands? Bad defensively? I don't know that he's all of those things. I think Marques is probably a kid who has been told his whole life he's really, really good and he's lived off those accolades. I see a kid who has all the measureables that would make an NBA scout drool....legit 6'10"-11", over 260lbs with a wingspan of 7'4"-5". The college game kind of punched him in the mouth this season. The speed, the size, the men he's playing against....it's the first time he's ever seen anything like it.
Not to go completely off-topic, but I've read a lot of articles about Luke Maye in the last 36 hours. And I know, many here think he's been as good as he has because Roy played him. That's it. Well, you know what I learned in every one of those articles? Luke Maye's teammates, his coaches, all talked about how Luke is the hardest-working kid they've ever been around. Now sure, kids will say things....but Roy Williams said that. Do you have any idea how many kids Roy Williams has been around the last 40 years? For him to say something like that says something to me. Extra playing time might have helped Luke Maye to get more comfortable on the court, but extra playing time didn't make him better. Hard work has made him the player he is today. Being the last in the gym, in the weight room reshaping his body, putting up hundreds of shots EVERY single day. That's what's made him the Luke Maye we've watched the last couple of weeks.
So what's my point? Well, do you think teammates and coaches would say Marques is the hardest worker on his current team? Do you think Luke Maye's body language, whether he's playing a vital role like the last two games, or the kind of role where he plays three to five minutes in a game, ever changes? I've never seen a player support his teammates like a Luke Maye. Now, I understand everybody wears their emotions different and I shouldn't paint such a broad brush, but there's been whispers around the program about Marques since back in December. If some of those whispers are true, is there any doubt why he didn't play more?
Again, not putting the focus entirely on Marques or taking it away from the coaches. Both probably could have done a better job....but I know Duke's staff and K have a big stake in the success of the program, so I don't feel they'd purposely sabotage it. JMO.
That is an excellent post. People like the shiny new toy with all the measurables, but it is such a narrow, almost completely ill-informed view. We know maybe a tenth of all that goes on, but we love to pretend we have the answers. And that isn't just about Marques, because you can count me firmly in the camp that hopes Marques comes back and is 100% all in.
Drawing back to that Geno Aurriema presser would be a good thing to do based on what you've described.
Ques needs to be pushed but at some point you have to want to do it- not everything is going to be handed to you. I think his mom understood this which is why she wanted him to go to Duke so badly.
I don't go over to RR except during the summer. Are they all bitching about why SKJ didn't play a lick this year? He was a five star kid, no? Picked UK over hometown UNC if memory serves me correct.
By my eye, Bolden is immature. I don't think he's lazy in the, "I don't feel like working." sense. He seems low energy and unsure of his role. When I look at him a see a child in a giant's body. He will at some point be pretty good, but his energy level and enthusiasm need a boost. I think he should go away with the Project Wild kids this summer and spend some time in the woods reconnecting with his inner man. It's not about his hands. Coach K and Capel should reach out to Ques and be the mentors that Quinn had. If we can get him to unleash the beast, he could be the top center in the country. From what I've heard, he has a few marbles rolling around upstairs too. He can hack it in the classroom.
My lasting memory for him this season will be in one stretch of a game when Coach K was out with his back surgery, I saw Bolden dive on the floor for a loose ball. The bench went absolutely crazy. Capel was losing his mind. I can't help but think they were getting excited about something that they had been harping on him about all year - making a hustle play. I am convinced that he wasn't consistently giving "acceptable" effort in practice and that is why he wasn't trusted with more minutes.
My hope, of course, would be that things click for him at Duke next year. Because he has a ton of talent (we saw that in spurts throughout the year). He could be a major force.
My hope, of course, would be that things click for him at Duke next year. Because he has a ton of talent (we saw that in spurts throughout the year). He could be a major force.
I absolutely want Ques back next year. Still believe that light-bulb will click on for him and he will eventually turn into a monster.
Marques and Wendell, has a chance to be a big, physical, mean front court. I want our front court to be scary, I want to see Duke block 10 shots a game and talk trash after each one.
I'm tired of seeing these little guards abuse our perimeter guys than score at will around the paint. Let's starting making guys pay for coming to the rim.
Marques and Wendell, has a chance to be a big, physical, mean front court. I want our front court to be scary, I want to see Duke block 10 shots a game and talk trash after each one.
I'm tired of seeing these little guards abuse our perimeter guys than score at will around the paint. Let's starting making guys pay for coming to the rim.
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As much as I would love to see it, the rumblings I've read on this board from people I consider in the know indicate all signs point elsewhere from Duke. If true good luck, but I again don't blame Coach K for not giving him more time. His accolades earned him a Duke scholarship it did not earn him or entitle him to a single second of playing time. Let the haters chirp, this is the way our leader has run this program since the beginning and it has worked out pretty damn fine.
Good post dj. I just see zero fire from this young man. I don't see the want. I think you know what I mean. He COULD be out there, that was all up to him. But he has to put in the effort and the want, you can't just show up TALL and expect to have it given to you.
We knew that was coming, though. He doesn't really have a choice, IMO. Someone is going to take a chance on his potential and pay him guaranteed money. If, by chance, he never reaches the potential we all saw two years ago, it won't be because he did or didn't stay at Duke.
Totally agree with you dukiejay... I would feel terrible if he came back and got hurt... let him go and live his dream!
I'm in the minority, but all of these guys moving on actually makes me excited for next year. There are a lot of unknowns which will make it a fun season to behold. It also leaves the potential of having a team that is much different at the beginning of the year as at the end. This even seems to leave some possible surprises for grad transfers and all.
Keep fighting fellas.
Keep fighting fellas.
Apparently Arby's doesn't offer "no sh$t sandwiches." I mean dern, every time I go there I regret it.
Best of luck to Giles, hope he has a very promising NBA career. IMO he handled this yr with such maturity and respect for the university. Will be rooting for him and team that drafts him (like i do for all my DUKE boys) .
I think the regular season would matter more to me if it was a balanced schedule. But it's not.
But my point was. There is no such thing as a ACC regular season champion. Unless the ACC changed that, which the could of.
Obviously I want us to finish first but the scheduling has to be fixed.
Currently it is like finishing 1st in the polls at the end of the season. While nice to have the number 1 overall seed, I'd rather rather finish first in the NCAA tournament.
Okay, that makes a bit more sense, but, again, the ACCT isn't really a more objective standard for deciding a champion.
The same potential match-up randomness exists as does when the league schedules get sorted.
The major difference is that we'd be apportioning overall success based on a much smaller sample size if we were to weigh performance in the ACCT more heavily than the regular season. Sure the regular season schedule is imbalanced but it more or less works itself out by the end of the season.
In no way am I explicitly arguing I'd trade one thing for another but simply wish, as others on the board have similarly expressed, the team had the same consistency as, admittedly, a very select few other programs.
Consistency is much more easy to measure over the course of a season and regardless of whether you're suggesting Duke had a much more difficult regular season schedule than other ACC contenders this year, they also lost their share of perfectly winnable games.
We've debated the reasons for this ad nauseam and so I was simply making a more general "wish" than arguing definitively about what Duke should or shouldn't do or, for that matter, showing a lack of appreciation for what they did accomplish. I enjoyed the season and Duke winning the ACCT was an enormous part of that, though as others have stated, I never "felt it" in the way I might have had even half of the other stuff (bad losses, struggles w/ injuries, etc.) not occurred.
take on grayson staying.....Psych major and most pysch majors usually do grad school to bolster that degree and open up more options.....duke is his dream school and his time isnt up yet....use the 4th year to towards his masters in pyschology and to right his ship???
It's possible. I think he's going to get all of the assessments he needs to find out his options and go from there. I think he definitely wants to leave, as has been the plan, but plans change sometimes.
from what I have heard/read, he's leaving.... sorry, I have something in my eye.
There are other factors with PT. Yes, getting minutes does get a player comfortable with being on the court and game speed. And, it takes away some of the 'deer in the headlights' effect that hits a lot of kids.
Minutes also do is they motivate kids (rather than just the negative motivation of sitting the bench until you play better in practice). The kid gets a positive taste of the game and being part of the team - however small it is. If you get 2-3 minutes in the 1st half, you get to participate. Even if you are
But, there is also another benefit. Many of these kids, whether it's completely spurious or not, doesn't matter, think that if they are not getting minutes in games their game is being held back and they are not given a chance to develop. But, give a kid minutes in several games and if his game needs a lot of work, he'll be exposed. And, most importantly, he'll be exposed to himself. He'll see he is getting embarrassed on national TV if he doesn't up his game.
I think there are three key motivating factors for everyone - but especially for freshmen coming in. And, all these have to actually be experienced. The "stick" the negative of seeing that you are not going to start or get a ton of minutes if you don't work hard. The "carrot" - a taste of success. They have to feel the taste of being cheered by fans at home. Getting a big play in a game (even Bolden has had a play or two). The more opportunity they get for that the more motivation there will be in practice. Making a play in practice and getting the praise of an assistant coach is not motivation enough. Third, is relational. A kid needs to know that the coach really loves him and wants him to have a great experience as well as grow. That means some PT.
This is not saying a kid like Bolden should have gotten 10-15 minutes a game. But, that he should have gotten in many more games, most or all of them, at least a minute or two. And, if Duke has a lead maybe give him 5-7 minutes and I think that would go a long way to their desire to stay; to work harder the next year; and to believe that they actually will get on the court. That they won't turn into a Sean Obi, sitting on the bench for 3 years (whether that's fair or not, doesn't matter, it's perception - and that's why so many transfer out of Duke after their freshman year).
Do not understand how any of these other than Bolden could make any decision to go or stay until they get an evaluation grade from the NBA Combine
I don't see reason for an announcement if he's staying....especially this early. At minimum, he would hear evaluations from scouts and get feedback from the staff. If, by chance, he would stay....well, I think it would be a while before we know that. So, technically, every day he doesn't announce something, that's a good thing.
But don't get your hopes up.
Can't blame Grayson for leaving. Why put yourself thru the same old BS that the media and opposing fans put him through this year over a totally harmless tripping attempt and I mean attempt. It's ok for others to rape cheat vandalize beat up girlfriends etc etc just don't make a half assed attempt at a trip and be wearing a Duke uniform. I still haven't heard the first word in regards to the player at FSU that intentionally tripped GA. Oh the double standard.