Honest Question for ND Fans

[SmellyCat]

Do you ever wish you were in a football conference? I mean, I know in years like this when you're a contender to win it all it's probably not a big deal, and you possibly revel in how special you are as the year-in and year-out elite independent, but it's also fun to be part of a conference race, to have the same rivals every year and watch other games that have an impact on your season.

NU fans are going to be watching Purdue-Iowa this Saturday with a huge amount at stake for the Wildcats. ND doesn't really get to experience that. That's a really fun part of being a football fan.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Do you ever wish you were in a football conference? I mean, I know in years like this when you're a contender to win it all it's probably not a big deal, and you possibly revel in how special you are as the year-in and year-out elite independent, but it's also fun to be part of a conference race, to have the same rivals every year and watch other games that have an impact on your season.

NU fans are going to be watching Purdue-Iowa this Saturday with a huge amount at stake for the Wildcats. ND doesn't really get to experience that. That's a really fun part of being a football fan.

I’m younger, so I am of two minds about it. Most older alumni are dead set against it, in my experience.

But most of the reasons I would be open to join a conference aren’t the ones you stated. I actually think we already get most of the benefits that you mentioned.

For example, we do largely play the same group of team this year after year, such as: USC, Stanford, Navy, Boston College, Michigan State, Michigan, Puttsburgh, Purdue… And now we have five ACC games every season.
I don’t think that’s all that different than a conference, where are you play the same five or six teams every season plus another couple games from a consistent rotating pool of teams (the other division).

Furthermore, because we’ve at least been in the hunt for a playoff spot or a NY6 ball game, we watch the performances of these teams in much the same way that you may watch conference foes.

 

[FriedmanIP]

To me, the actual reasons to join a conference would be the opportunity to have a “consolation prize”, if/when were knocked out of the hunt for national prizes.

For example, if Notre Dame’s season started like Northwestern’s dead, a large portion of the Fanbase would just check out, because there’s really nothing left to play for. I think this can even spread to some players on the team.

Northwestern, on the other hand, obviously has something still to play for… Even though you are out of the national picture because of the early-season stumbles. That’s a major benefit to being in a conference.

A secondary benefit is that I think it’s easier to make the playoffs if you’re in a conference, for two reasons:

1. You get to play a 13th game against what is probably a quality opponent, and can claim a conference title
2. You benefit from the natural biases of the humans on the committee, at least some of whom are likely to favor you do to conference affiliation

If we were going to join a conference, those would be my primary reasons for doing so.

 

[FriedmanIP]

However, I think there are numerous downsides to join a conference as well.

The most obvious one is the loss of a tradition that’s very important at Notre Dame, culturally.

The next would be recruiting in football. Notre Dame is not located in a particularly talented area and thus need to recruit nationally in order to compete nationally. This is made even harder by the additional academic restrictions we self-imposed on recruiting, beyond the NCAA minimums. As such we really need to be able to recruit nationally. Joining a conference would tend to regionalize Notre Dame as a school and thus regionalize are recruiting success, especially if the conference we joined was the big 10, is that would minimize our presence on the coasts.

Next is scheduling. It’s hard to imagine a Notre Dame football season that doesn’t include you I see Navy. Even the loss of opponents like Stanford, Boston College, Miami, etc. would be pretty significant. This means that if we join a conference we have to choose between dropping these long standing critical games, or being the only team in the nation who plays a fall conference late and then and out of conference schedule like: USC, Stanford, and navy.

Beyond that, you also have to look at cultural fit, geographic fat, and other factors. Obviously, Notre Dame prioritize his academics and want to associate with other schools and programs that also do soap. But Notre Dame prioritizes undergraduate education not post graduate research. And the faith based culture at Notre Dame is also important.
But at the same time, ND is located in the Midwest.

These are major downside is when it comes to the concept of joining a conference at all, and they influence what conference we would join if we ever were to do so.

 

[villox]

However, I think there are numerous downsides to join a conference as well.

The most obvious one is the loss of a tradition that’s very important at Notre Dame, culturally.

The next would be recruiting in football. Notre Dame is not located in a particularly talented area and thus need to recruit nationally in order to compete nationally. This is made even harder by the additional academic restrictions we self-imposed on recruiting, beyond the NCAA minimums. As such we really need to be able to recruit nationally. Joining a conference would tend to regionalize Notre Dame as a school and thus regionalize are recruiting success, especially if the conference we joined was the big 10, is that would minimize our presence on the coasts.

Next is scheduling. It’s hard to imagine a Notre Dame football season that doesn’t include you I see Navy. Even the loss of opponents like Stanford, Boston College, Miami, etc. would be pretty significant. This means that if we join a conference we have to choose between dropping these long standing critical games, or being the only team in the nation who plays a fall conference late and then and out of conference schedule like: USC, Stanford, and navy.

Beyond that, you also have to look at cultural fit, geographic fat, and other factors. Obviously, Notre Dame prioritize his academics and want to associate with other schools and programs that also do soap. But Notre Dame prioritizes undergraduate education not post graduate research. And the faith based culture at Notre Dame is also important.
But at the same time, ND is located in the Midwest.

These are major downside is when it comes to the concept of joining a conference at all, and they influence what conference we would join if we ever were to do so.

I don't understand why the recruiting situation would have to change. Your description of our recruiting sounds a lot like how we recruit and we're in a conference.

And though those opponents are recent traditions, rivals change over time. For example, NU and Notre Dame used to play a lot so they could claim a wooden stick trophy.

 

[Fitz51]

Most older alumni are dead set against it, in my experience.

That's generally a sure sign that it would be a good move.

 

[kaTNap]

The next would be recruiting in football. Notre Dame is not located in a particularly talented area and thus need to recruit nationally in order to compete nationally. This is made even harder by the additional academic restrictions we self-imposed on recruiting, beyond the NCAA minimums. As such we really need to be able to recruit nationally. Joining a conference would tend to regionalize Notre Dame as a school and thus regionalize are recruiting success, especially if the conference we joined was the big 10, is that would minimize our presence on the coasts.

ND people always bring this up. I think it's one of the more bogus arguments against conference affiliation. This isn't 1935. Everyone who's any good recruits nationally all the time. (See our roster @ link.) Also, there's nothing preventing a team from scheduling a regular OOC opponent in a recruiting hotbed that's not part of their conference footprint.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/roster/_/id/77/northwestern-wildcats

 

[Fitz51]

This isn't 1935.

It is in South Bend.

 

[kaTNap]

It is in South Bend.

As long as it's not 1936, when they ruined our national championship season. >grr<

 

[NUCat320]

My sense is that the only reason ND would join a conference is if they stopped being able to play a schedule good enough to put them in the national race. And there’s no way I can foresee that happening.

As it stands, ND is able to often (not always) stack the deck with 7-home, 4-road, 1-neutral game. That wouldn’t be possible, except a max of every other year, if they joined a conference.

 

[DaCat]

For example, NU and Notre Dame used to play a lot so they could claim a wooden stick trophy.

Did anyone tell EvanstonCat about this?

 

[FriedmanIP]

I don't understand why the recruiting situation would have to change. Your description of our recruiting sounds a lot like how we recruit and we're in a conference.

And though those opponents are recent traditions, rivals change over time. For example, NU and Notre Dame used to play a lot so they could claim a wooden stick trophy.

A relatively small percentage of ND's roster comes from the midwest. We focus primarily on Northeast, Texas, South East, and California.

And we're going after "higher profile" or "more competitive" recruits....which we can really only do with success if we're frequently playing games in those areas, imo.

It's even harder for ND than it is for Ohio State or Michigan, because we can't (or won't) take numerous numerous prospects due to elevated academic restrictions/requirements.

Personally, I think "regionalizing" ND's schedule would have a STRONG impact on our our recruiting.....and I'm far from being alone on this.

 

[FriedmanIP]

That's generally a sure sign that it would be a good move.

Not sure I agree about that.

But I do think we'll be in the ACC eventually, if that's what you mean.

 

[FriedmanIP]

ND people always bring this up. I think it's one of the more bogus arguments against conference affiliation. This isn't 1935. Everyone who's any good recruits nationally all the time. (See our roster @ link.) Also, there's nothing preventing a team from scheduling a regular OOC opponent in a recruiting hotbed that's not part of their conference footprint.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/roster/_/id/77/northwestern-wildcats

Not really true.

Very few teams EFFECTIVELY recruit nationally.
And those that due typically have some advantages to sell that ND does not ("football factory" ala Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan.....location/weather ala Clemson, Florida State, etc.)

Playing games around the nation, playing on NBC, and doing anything possible to be "present" in each region is KEY to ND's recruiting.

As for "scheduling good games OOC", see the rest of my post. Either:

• That requires ND to play a MUCH harder schedule than anyone else in the conference (and the nation)
• Give up on playing good games in numerous regions

Either way, that's a major downside for us.

 

[FriedmanIP]

My sense is that the only reason ND would join a conference is if they stopped being able to play a schedule good enough to put them in the national race. And there’s no way I can foresee that happening.

As it stands, ND is able to often (not always) stack the deck with 7-home, 4-road, 1-neutral game. That wouldn’t be possible, except a max of every other year, if they joined a conference.

I think this is mostly right, but the schedule breakup is a little off

Typically (or at least "as often as not") our schedule is:
6 Home
4 Away
2 Neutral (Navy's "home game" is always some "neutral" naval base/city)

 

[SmellyCat]

Thanks for the thoughtful answers Friedman. I figured it would be stuff like that. I love that NU is in a conference, even if they rarely compete for the top prize, because when they DO compete, it's a thrill unlike any other. Was just wondering if ND fans ever felt like they were missing out on that experience.

 

[StreamCat]

A relatively small percentage of ND's roster comes from the midwest. We focus primarily on Northeast, Texas, South East, and California.

We do pretty well recruiting nationally. https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/roster/northwestern/91464

 

[FriedmanIP]

We do pretty well recruiting nationally. https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/roster/northwestern/91464

I don't want to start a fight here, but in terms of what ND is trying to do....we wouldn't consider your national recruiting "successful"

• How often do you go to Texas and get recruits that Texas/A&M are heavily pursuing?
• How often do you go to Florida and get recruits that UF, FSU, or Miami are heavily pursuing?
• How often do you go to Georgia and get recruits that Georgia, Clemson, Auburn, etc. are heavily pursuing?

How often do you even go into Ohio or Michigan (not far away and you play there occasionally) and get recruits that Ohio State or Michigan are heavily pursuing?

That's was ND is trying to do (and having decent success with), in terms of it's national recruiting.

So we you consider "what do you need to do to recruit nationally"..... it's that level of national recruiting that you need to consider.

I agree, ND could get 2nd/3rd tier recruits nationally, regardless of how "regionalized" we may become by joining the Big10....but that's not good enough for what our goals are
(and thus is a major downside when making the decision on whether to join a conference)

 

[docrugby1]

Notre Dame was the perfect fit for the B1G in all sports. ND is centrally located in the B1G footprint. FB,BB, Hockey, Lacrosse would have thrived in the conference

I would add ND and SMU to the B1G with UCF replacing ND in the ACC

 

[NUCat320]

Notre Dame was the perfect fit for the B1G in all sports. ND is centrally located in the B1G footprint. FB,BB, Hockey, Lacrosse would have thrived in the conference

I would add ND and SMU to the B1G with UCF replacing ND in the ACC

SMU is interesting, but Ga Tech would be better. And, given ND would never join, SMU and Ga Tech would be great.

 

[GuessYouWereWrong]

It is in South Bend.

A lot of the blue hairs in SB still don’t know that the forward pass is now legal.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Notre Dame was the perfect fit for the B1G in all sports. ND is centrally located in the B1G footprint. FB,BB, Hockey, Lacrosse would have thrived in the conference

I would add ND and SMU to the B1G with UCF replacing ND in the ACC

Location-wise, it makes sense for ND.
And everything seems to make sense from the Big10 perspective.

But....most other things don't make sense from the ND perspective

• The Big10 would "regionalize" ND, where as the ACC would allow us to play in the Midwest, North East, and South East regularly
• The Big10 would force us to play 9 Conference games, the ACC as already agreed to only have 8, if we join....allowing us to keep more of our traditional opponents
• The Big10 schools/culture are focused on large scale, large population, post-grad research over undergrad education...where the ACC is far more focused on smaller student bodies and undergrad education
• The Big10 has virtually no religious institutions, while the ACC has several
• The Big10 wouldn't allow us to keep the NBC deal, the ACC has already agreed to that

When you consider everything from ND's point of view, the ACC ultimately makes more sense
(if we're ever to fully join a conference, at all)

 

[FriedmanIP]

SMU is interesting, but Ga Tech would be better. And, given ND would never join, SMU and Ga Tech would be great.

I'm not a fan of that for the Big10. I think these programs are a mismatch culturally and only bring modest contributions on the field.

They're in recruiting hotbeds, but they're minor teams in those areas, so I'm not sure how much playing them would really help there.I feel the same way about having added Rutgers and Maryland. I think that was a net loss/delusion for the Big10.

Instead, I would look at these schools:

• Oklahoma (major reach....but might be able to grab them if the Big12 starts to fall apart)
  
• Pittsburgh (cultural/geographic fit, good recruiting area, adds Pittsburgh TV market, provides Penn State with a rival)
• Louisville (not ideal cultural fit, but close-ish, good geographical fit, good sports teams, decent TV market add with Louisville and Cinci)

 

[StreamCat]

I don't want to start a fight here, but in terms of what ND is trying to do....we wouldn't consider your national recruiting "successful"

• How often do you go to Texas and get recruits that Texas/A&M are heavily pursuing?
• How often do you go to Florida and get recruits that UF, FSU, or Miami are heavily pursuing?
• How often do you go to Georgia and get recruits that Georgia, Clemson, Auburn, etc. are heavily pursuing?

How often do you even go into Ohio or Michigan (not far away and you play there occasionally) and get recruits that Ohio State or Michigan are heavily pursuing?

And just how exactly would being in a conference prevent you from continuing to do so?

But I guess, we are, after all, just little old Northwestern. How could we possibly understand your problems? I constantly defend Notre Dame fans here, but I'm beginning to see the viewpoint of the haters. Could you be more condescending? My ND family is ashamed of you.

 

[FriedmanIP]

And just how exactly would being in a conference prevent you from continuing to do so?

But I guess, we are, after all, just little old Northwestern. How could we possibly understand your problems? I constantly defend Notre Dame fans here, but I'm beginning to see the viewpoint of the haters. Could you be more condescending? My ND family is ashamed of you.

It would prevent us from playing many games in these regions against premier opponents, which has been key to building "a presence" amongst coaches and recruits in these regions...and that's A MAJOR key to recruiting those regions effectively.

And I'm sorry you feel hurt, but that's just the truth.
You can't use an example of team that isn't being effective at recruiting nationally, on the level that ND is currently and even wants to improve upon, as evidence that doing so is possible in the situation of the team from your example (in this case Northwestern)

As an ND alumni myself, it doesn't really matter to me if you and your family are so thin skinned that simple logic and discussion like this offends you and turns you into "a hater".

These are the types of issues that are considered for these decisions...and thus they're what any reasonable person should discuss when inquiring about such decisions.

 

[kaTNap]

It would prevent us from playing many games in these regions against premier opponents

You play your required slate of ACC teams, Stanford, USC, and Navy every single year. ND's schedule has less regional variety than you think. To take one example, in the state of Texas, ND has played Texas 12 times (in your entire history!), but Texas A&M only 5 times (all in one 12 year period), and Texas Tech never.

In our own division, except for NU and Purdue (and a series against Nebraska before they joined the conference), you haven't played anyone in decades. Your last games against Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa were all in the 1960's. You haven't played Minnesota since the 1930's (what did they do?).

Is Ohio State prevented from playing "premier opponents" from outside the conference? In the past 10 years alone, they've played USC, Miami (FL), Virginia Tech, and Oklahoma in the regular season. (Home and homes in each case.) They could have had more "premier opponents" if they had wanted them.

 

[FriedmanIP]

You play your required slate of ACC teams, Stanford, USC, and Navy every single year. ND's schedule has less regional variety than you think. To take one example, in the state of Texas, ND has played Texas 12 times (in your entire history!), but Texas A&M only 5 times (all in one 12 year period), and Texas Tech never.

In our own division, except for NU and Purdue (and a series against Nebraska before they joined the conference), you haven't played anyone in decades. Your last games against Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa were all in the 1960's. You haven't played Minnesota since the 1930's (what did they do?).

Is Ohio State prevented from playing "premier opponents" from outside the conference? In the past 10 years alone, they've played USC, Miami (FL), Virginia Tech, and Oklahoma in the regular season. (Home and homes in each case.) They could have had more "premier opponents" if they had wanted them.

There are a few issues with this type of thinking.

First, our "ACC slate" is only 5 games/year. That means that we have a "conference schedule" only after you include USC, Stanford and Navy.....leaving us 4 games to schedule around the nation AFTER already getting those traditional games on our schedule.

Next, you're focusing on specific teams instead of regions.

Look at our 2018 schedule. We play games in:

• Midwest (7)
• Mid Atlantic (2)
• North East (1)
• West Coast (2)

In 2019 we play games in:

• Midwest (8)
• South East (2)
• Mid Atlantic (1)
• West Coast (1)

In 2020 we play games in:

• Midwest (7)
• Mid Atlantic (2)
• South East (1)
• West Coast (1)
• International (1)

Basically, we almost always play games in at least 4-5 different regions, with many of the non-Midwest games coming against Marquee opponents.

That's not something that Ohio State does, or really "can do"

 

[fedman]

Do you ever wish you were in a football conference? I mean, I know in years like this when you're a contender to win it all it's probably not a big deal, and you possibly revel in how special you are as the year-in and year-out elite independent, but it's also fun to be part of a conference race, to have the same rivals every year and watch other games that have an impact on your season.

NU fans are going to be watching Purdue-Iowa this Saturday with a huge amount at stake for the Wildcats. ND doesn't really get to experience that. That's a really fun part of being a football fan.

I don't think it is the preference on the part of the ND fan base that keeps Notre Dame Independent in football. It is only the ND fans over 50 who are adamant about ND not being in a conference. Most of the younger fans I have spoken to or who have voiced their opinion on message boards fall into two categories - (1) makes no difference to me or (2) ND should join a conference in football.

It is the ND administration who feel that there is value in ND being Independent in football that transcends what happens on the football field. They see the football team as a way to publicize the University and to play in front of alumni groups across the country. They see Independence as being important to the Notre Dame brand.

Whether there is truth in that belief, the administration clearly believes in this "value".

 

[kaTNap]

..leaving us 4 games to schedule around the nation AFTER already getting those traditional games on our schedule.

And if you played in a conference, you would have three such games. (Or four if you played an 8-game conference schedule.) Not really much difference.

 

[ricko6543211]

And just how exactly would being in a conference prevent you from continuing to do so?

But I guess, we are, after all, just little old Northwestern. How could we possibly understand your problems? I constantly defend Notre Dame fans here, but I'm beginning to see the viewpoint of the haters. Could you be more condescending? My ND family is ashamed of you.

I think he’s been pretty reasonable and laid out clearly some reasons (pro and con) for why and why not to join the B1G. And also why, if they do, they’d rather join the ACC. Aside from the comment about us having second and third tier recruits I’m not sure where he was at all condescending. But it’s pretty much true that our recruits tend to be lower ranked than the top of our conference, and also ND. Fitz has done pretty darned well with those recruits so I’m not too worried about it, but I think his comments there would be objectively fair comments.

I feel like it’s the NU fans here who are being overly sensitive perhaps. Especially since one of our brought it up originally, and other keep needling him on the topic (mostly with questions he’s already answered).

In any event, I appreciated the responses - even if I don’t agree with all of them.

 

[StreamCat]

I think he’s been pretty reasonable and laid out clearly some reasons (pro and con) for why and why not to join the B1G. And also why, if they do, they’d rather join the ACC. Aside from the comment about us having second and third tier recruits I’m not sure where he was at all condescending. But it’s pretty much true that our recruits tend to be lower ranked than the top of our conference, and also ND. Fitz has done pretty darned well with those recruits so I’m not too worried about it, but I think his comments there would be objectively fair comments.

I feel like it’s the NU fans here who are being overly sensitive perhaps. Especially since one of our brought it up originally, and other keep needling him on the topic (mostly with questions he’s already answered).

In any event, I appreciated the responses - even if I don’t agree with all of them.

Hey, nobody ever accused me of being reasonable.

 

[Yooper Irishfan]

Speaking for myself, I don't really miss being in a conference in football. I'm an avid ND hoops fan as well and get to experience the benefits of being in a big time conference there.

Sure, it gives you another goal to play for if you drop a couple games early, but I sort of like the high stakes playoff/big bowl-or-nothing mentality. When I grew up, a 3 loss season was an awful season. ND has fallen from that in the last 20 years but I would love to get the program back to a point to where we are competing for a playoff spot year in and year out.

I also enjoy the flexibility in schedules we can still play, which helps keep our brand alive nationally and creates some fun match ups. I wouldn't be devastated if ND ever joined a conference in football but I would be upset for sure.

 

[ricko6543211]

And if you played in a conference, you would have three such games. (Or four if you played an 8-game conference schedule.) Not really much difference.

But then he made the counter point already that if you add 3 “marquee” games on top of a 9 game B1G schedule, you have a tougher schedule than anyone in the nation, which isn’t really desirable. Another reason why the partial ACC thing may be better in their eyes. Which seems reasonable to me.

The only thing he’s said thus far that I’m not sure I agree with is the national recruiting benefit. I guess it possibly helps at the margin, but I don’t think it would make a huge difference. Especially with how many games are televised nowadays (every single one for ND) I think they’d be able to get by just fine in terms of continued national exposure and recruiting, if they just had a game in the other regions every 2-3 years (which is basically what NU does). Especially with the ND brand. And that’s offset by the benefits of being in a conference, for recruiting and ability to qualify for CFP.

 

[ODOHERTY]

Yes and no, I think losing usc,Stanford,navy as rivalrys would be tough ,but do miss the Mich st,Purdue,Mich every year big10 would make sense.would love to be in neb division as a lifelong native, like earlier poster said ooc games would be interesting hate seeing teams play garbage before conference .don't see it happening anytime soon just for reasons stated throughout this thread. Go Irish. Good luck this weekend

 

[FriedmanIP]

And if you played in a conference, you would have three such games. (Or four if you played an 8-game conference schedule.) Not really much difference.

You're missing what I'm saying.

If we joing a conference full time, that would take up 8-9 games instead of the current 5 (ACC deal).

Thus, after keeping USC/Stanford/Navy....as we do now....we'd have 0-1 games that we can use to schedule around the nation.

Obviously, the difference between 0-1 games and 4 games is pretty massive.

 

[docrugby1]

SMU is interesting, but Ga Tech would be better. And, given ND would never join, SMU and Ga Tech would be great.

I chose SMU because OU and Texas will never join. SMU will get the B1G into a large Texas market. I believe SMU is academically a little ahead of Houston. Ford Field is relatvely new and was constructed so expansion to more than 50,000 could occur in one off season. SMU is a wealthy school and could generate enough income if they were invited to join a Power 5 conference. They have shown they can be competitive in BB and I believe FB could have similar success

There are few better days for a guy then spending a morning on the Boulevard before an SMU FB game

 

[Williesfan]

SMU is interesting, but Ga Tech would be better. And, given ND would never join, SMU and Ga Tech would be great.

Let me pose a scenario. If the NCAA National Championship was played through a 4 team playoff. But instead of rankings based on opinions dictating the competition. Those four teams came from the 4 conference champions that all originated from conference championship games. Those championships were derived from 16 team super conferences. Would Notre Dame still want to remain an independent knowing they can’t get in the dance?

 

[Williesfan]

I chose SMU because OU and Texas will never join. SMU will get the B1G into a large Texas market. I believe SMU is academically a little ahead of Houston. Ford Field is relatvely new and was constructed so expansion to more than 50,000 could occur in one off season. SMU is a wealthy school and could generate enough income if they were invited to join a Power 5 conference. They have shown they can be competitive in BB and I believe FB could have similar success

There are few better days for a guy then spending a morning on the Boulevard before an SMU FB game

I thought to be a institution in the B1G they had to have an AAU affiliation. SMU is not affiliated.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Let me pose a scenario. If the NCAA National Championship was played through a 4 team playoff. But instead of rankings based on opinions dictating the competition. Those four teams came from the 4 conference champions that all originated from conference championship games. Those championships were derived from 16 team super conferences. Would Notre Dame still want to remain an independent knowing they can’t get in the dance?

No. In that situation, Notre Dame would likely join a conference.

The university has said that he intends to remain independent UNLESS it is expressly or practically barred from competing for championships by the system.

This would be an example of an express bar.

(As an aside, if you expressly structured the system that way, I do think you would run into immediate antitrust litigation… That you’re likely to lose)

 

[hdhntr1]

No. In that situation, Notre Dame would likely join a conference.

The university has said that he intends to remain independent UNLESS it is expressly or practically barred from competing for championships by the system.

This would be an example of an express bar.

(As an aside, if you expressly structured the system that way, I do think you would run into immediate antitrust litigation… That you’re likely to lose)

Professional sports are exclusively not covered by anti trust. Have to feel NCAA would fall into same realm