Harsh reality about NIL

[Geo_Baker_1]

Gio
On a smaller scale, we have several players on our football team, two on D, one on O for sure who will absolutely receive interest from other programs.
I assume they will hear from those schools NIL collectives and enticed to transfer.
That is not NIL and common place

Agreed. Wish i had the answer. That’s why I’m trying my best with Knight Society.

we had a lot of guys who could’ve left from the basketball team last 2 years but coach Pikiell built that culture where nobody was even thinking about NIL money. They were thinking why tf would i want to leave rutgers.

Rutgers is a special place and i said it earlier not a lot of kids actually want to leave and go to a completely new environment. I would trust the coaches/try to play a part. If you don’t want to support KOR or Knight Society, i don’t blame you, but how hard is it to share it with 10 friends who might? Little stuff like that could go a long way

 

[hankee18]

Agreed. Wish i had the answer. That’s why I’m trying my best with Knight Society.

we had a lot of guys who could’ve left from the basketball team last 2 years but coach Pikiell built that culture where nobody was even thinking about NIL money. They were thinking why tf would i want to leave rutgers.

Rutgers is a special place and i said it earlier not a lot of kids actually want to leave and go to a completely new environment. I would trust the coaches/try to play a part. If you don’t want to support KOR or Knight Society, i don’t blame you, but how hard is it to share it with 10 friends who might? Little stuff like that could go a long way

You made a great point earlier - if the transfer and portal rules were different, NIL might be viewed differently by fans

 

[zappaa]

Agreed. Wish i had the answer. That’s why I’m trying my best with Knight Society.

we had a lot of guys who could’ve left from the basketball team last 2 years but coach Pikiell built that culture where nobody was even thinking about NIL money. They were thinking why tf would i want to leave rutgers.

Rutgers is a special place and i said it earlier not a lot of kids actually want to leave and go to a completely new environment. I would trust the coaches/try to play a part. If you don’t want to support KOR or Knight Society, i don’t blame you, but how hard is it to share it with 10 friends who might? Little stuff like that could go a long way

Geo
The NIL world was my life for 2 decades.
Im highly familiar with the market place.
Your intellectual property, name and likeness is yours, you own it.

I’ve always been a big proponent of your original stance and cause.

The fact NIL has morphed into pay for play has nothing to do with what you were fighting for….imo

 

[Retired711]

+1
This seems like a textbook case on how NIL is supposed to work.

Yes. Were she a musician, she could profit from her name, likeness and image without a problem. It shouldn't make a difference that her talent is in sports rather than other kinds of entertainment. I think NIL is great -- I just don't want NIL arrangements to be a means for boosters to help attract and retain players.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The fact NIL has morphed into pay for play has nothing to do with what you were fighting for….imo

IMHO, it does if you knew that's what it was going to immediately morph into (and everyone with a pulse did) and you advocated for it anyway.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Yes. Were she a musician, she could profit from her name, likeness and image without a problem. It shouldn't make a difference that her talent is in sports rather than other kinds of entertainment. I think NIL is great -- I just don't want NIL arrangements to be a means for boosters to help attract and retain players.

Musicians at Rutgers (or any other school) don't need other schools' music programs to flourish; they don't require competition. College athletic programs, on the otherhand, cannot exist without competition - college sports cannot flourish without some competitive balance. It's the nature of sports. NIL ends even the illusion of competitive balance for probably 85% of major college football programs.

 

[RUScrew85]

Any chance we can start charging these paid "semi-"professional players to use our facilities - I mean since they weren't appreciated when they were free maybe we can make some additional money off the weight rooms, stadiums and meeting rooms, tutors, lockers... Seems to me they're playing for money now and not the school, and these ARE school facilities so...

 

[RUchip]

Rutgers fans are cheap. Embarrassing

 

[Retired711]

Musicians at Rutgers (or any other school) don't need other schools' music programs to flourish; they don't require competition. College athletic programs, on the otherhand, cannot exist without competition - college sports cannot flourish without some competitive balance. It's the nature of sports. NIL ends even the illusion of competitive balance for probably 85% of major college football programs.

The threat to competitive balance does not come from the ability of an athlete to profit from his or her name, likeness and image. It comes from the perversion of NIL: from its use as a means of recruiting and retaining players. It's possible to have NIL without the perversion -- by banning so-called "collectives" (or making it clear they don't have tax-free status); by banning booster involvment, by banning arrangements that pay players more than market value, and by banning arrangements that are conditioned on a player attending a particular school. It can (and must) be done.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The threat to competitive balance does not come from the ability of an athlete to profit from his or her name, likeness and image. It comes from the perversion of NIL: from its use as a means of recruiting and retaining players. It's possible to have NIL without the perversion -- by banning so-called "collectives" (or making it clear they don't have tax-free status); by banning booster involvment, by banning arrangements that pay players more than market value, and by banning arrangements that are conditioned on a player attending a particular school. It can (and must) be done.

It's not "perversion" of NIL if everyone knows it is the obvious consequence of allowing NIL ... which is why the rule prohibiting NIL existed in the first place.

And who is going to ban all these impediments to *pure* NIL? Certainly not the NCAA; they just got told by the Supreme Court that their rules regarding NIL were not permitted. Are the conferences going to do it? Not if they want to be competitive. Are the states legislatures going to do it? Not if they want to get re-elected. Will the federal Congress do it? They could, but if they are going to pass anything, it would be more likely to be an anti-trust exemption ... which in turn would just eliminate NIL altogether again.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Rutgers fans are cheap. Embarrassing

It's not that they are cheap, it's just that they spend their entertainment dollar elsewhere. We could have a lengthy conversation about why that is (and I know I have a strong opinion), but pound-for-pound I would bet Rutgers graduates spend more on entertainment than the average Alabama graduate (or Georgia graduate, or Notre Dame graduate).

 

[zappaa]

IMHO, it does if you knew that's what it was going to immediately morph into (and everyone with a pulse did) and you advocated for it anyway.

I had no idea it would morph into pay for play.
I happen to believe college athletes should be paid for guest appearances, speaking engagements and free market ventures

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I had no idea it would morph into pay for play.
I happen to believe college athletes should be paid for guest appearances, speaking engagements and free market ventures

Well, I would argue that the vast majority of college football fans knew it would morph into pay-for-play and the notion that it would was discussed extensively on this message board.

 

[RUAldo]

Purest form of NIL has nothing to do with your sport.

Fair point - so what the heck are we all wasting our time with talking about and trying to raise money for collectives? That’s the epitome of pay to play - no?

 

[Retired711]

It's not "perversion" of NIL if everyone knows it is the obvious consequence of allowing NIL ... which is why the rule prohibiting NIL existed in the first place.

And who is going to ban all these impediments to *pure* NIL? Certainly not the NCAA; they just got told by the Supreme Court that their rules regarding NIL were not permitted. Are the conferences going to do it? Not if they want to be competitive. Are the states legislatures going to do it? Not if they want to get re-elected. Will the federal Congress do it? They could, but if they are going to pass anything, it would be more likely to be an anti-trust exemption ... which in turn would just eliminate NIL altogether again.

I agree that only Congress is likely to regulate. But I don't see why you think that Congressional legislation would eliminate NIL. Not even the Power 5 commissioners have endorsed that ,and I haven't heard of a proposal in Congress to do that. Rather, legislation is much more likely to regulate NIL as I outlined, and to give the NCAA the power to enforce those regulations. That would allow players to profit from their names, likenesses and images (as everyone else in the world can) without destroying competitive balance.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Rather, legislation is much more likely to regulate NIL as I outlined, and to give the NCAA the power to enforce those regulations. That would allow players to profit from their names, likenesses and images (as everyone else in the world can) without destroying competitive balance.

Even if this were true (which I do not agree), who says the NCAA wants the power to enforce Congressional regulations. If I were the NCAA, I wouldn't want anything to do with enforcing rules that I can't change and that, frankly, are unenforceable. All that will happen is cheating will continue and I (the NCAA) will get blamed for it instead of the Congress (who allowed it).

 

[zappaa]

Well, I would argue that the vast majority of college football fans knew it would morph into pay-for-play and the notion that it would was discussed extensively on this message board.

I can’t help it if the powers that be are to dumb to regulate pay for play and the portal.

 

[RU4Real]

I had no idea it would morph into pay for play.
I happen to believe college athletes should be paid for guest appearances, speaking engagements and free market ventures

Really? I'm kinda surprised by that. I've been saying from Day 1 that we would wind up exactly here.

It's going to get worse before it gets better. Eventually this winds up in court.

 

[Retired711]

Even if this were true (which I do not agree), who says the NCAA wants the power to enforce Congressional regulations. If I were the NCAA, I wouldn't want anything to do with enforcing rules that I can't change and that, frankly, are unenforceable. All that will happen is cheating will continue and I (the NCAA) will get blamed for it instead of the Congress (who allowed it).

I'm sure the NCAA would be more than happy to continue its traditional role of regulation. If they don't want to, then Congress can give the power to regulate to a federal agency. Don't worry -- the NCAA would be willing to regulate within the bounds set by Congress rather than see that happen. The rules I outlined (e.g. no tax exemption for "collectives") would not be particularly difficult to enforce as compared to a lot of laws.

 

[hankee18]

Get rid of college player free agency aka 'the portal'

Go back to the old transfer rules of sitting out a year

It would deal a major blow to NIL jump-ship type players and still allow some athletes that don't plan on leaving their school to make some extra bucks

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

Fair point - so what the heck are we all wasting our time with talking about and trying to raise money for collectives? That’s the epitome of pay to play - no?

I agree. Unfortunately that’s where we’re at right now with NIL. but again NIL is about value. If you feel like being part of a collective is valuable to you then you should do it.

right now we have over 300 members in knight society. What we laid out to them was we’re going to try to get you your moneys worth. We’ve handed out signed gear, gift cards, courtside seats, done athlete appearances, networking events etc… all only available to members.

pretty soon we’ll have exclusive video content site that only members can access and working on getting discounts at local places if you show your membership pass.

now instead of a collective… it become a valuable membership. But it takes time to build for sure

 

[RUAldo]

I agree. Unfortunately that’s where we’re at right now with NIL. but again NIL is about value. If you feel like being part of a collective is valuable to you then you should do it.

right now we have over 300 members in knight society. What we laid out to them was we’re going to try to get you your moneys worth. We’ve handed out signed gear, gift cards, courtside seats, done athlete appearances, networking events etc… all only available to members.

pretty soon we’ll have exclusive video content site that only members can access and working on getting discounts at local places if you show your membership pass.

now instead of a collective… it become a valuable membership. But it takes time to build for sure

When it comes to NIL collectives and orgs like knight society, what percentage goes to the players vs. the organizers?

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

When it comes to NIL collectives and orgs like knight society, what percentage goes to the players vs. the organizers?

For our membership program its 75 percent to the players.

for brand deals that’s more just us facilitating using connections so athletes get 85 percent.

 

[RUAldo]

For our membership program its 75 percent to the players.

for brand deals that’s more just us facilitating using connections so athletes get 85 percent.

On the one hand, I do applaud you for embracing your entrepreneurial spirit and you are a guy willing to challenge the status quo which will serve you well in life. On the other hand, from a fan’s perspective that already takes issue with NIL, not sure how I feel about organizations that now take a 25% cut to essentially facilitate payments to athletes in what can only be viewed as pay to play. With that said, I don’t have any issue with you or anyone trying to make a buck. It’s America! I just hate the whole NIL system - period.

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

On the one hand, I do applaud you for embracing your entrepreneurial spirit and you are a guy willing to challenge the status quo which will serve you well in life. On the other hand, from a fan’s perspective that already takes issue with NIL, not sure how I feel about organizations that now take a 25% cut to essentially facilitate payments to athletes in what can only be viewed as pay to play. With that said, I don’t have any issue with you or anyone trying to make a buck. It’s America! I just hate the whole NIL system - period.

I appreciate it. Our thought process is if we can deliver more genuine value to the fans for their money then ultimately student athletes will make more. If we did 85 15 for the membership program it would have limited the cool stuff we could do.

for example in September alone we had two member only events, multiple merch giveaways, and different contests.

But maybe we are wrong and people want to only pile as much money as possible lol. It’s an experiment for sure!

 

[T2Kplus20]

I appreciate it. Our thought process is if we can deliver more genuine value to the fans for their money then ultimately student athletes will make more. If we did 85 15 for the membership program it would have limited the cool stuff we could do.

for example in September alone we had two member only events, multiple merch giveaways, and different contests.

But maybe we are wrong and people want to only pile as much money as possible lol. It’s an experiment for sure!

Sounds like you put together a Club Court/TD Club organization on steroids. I guess from a player access and support POV.

 

[Roy_Faulker]

@Geo_Baker_1
Give you a lot of credit for continuing to engage this thread. Lots of venting and strong opinions for sure.

As someone who didn’t graduate from Rutgers and lives in the Mid-West you were always awesome to cheer for. Wish you nothing but success in life regardless of where NIL takes sports.

My kids are tOSU fans (live in Columbus but I’m from NJ) and will forever remember me yelling “Geo Baker - Big Shot Maker”. In fact more than some opposing coaches they may be happier that you graduated lol.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

This is often what I read and what I'm talking about. He's entering the portal but it's still hard for him to leave. Some will leave in the middle of the season to save a redshirt. I've seen that with a few SMU players recently. But in both that instance and this one, it's the chance for more playing time that motivated the transfer not big NIL money. It's going to be some of both but playing time is still limited and a big consideration on top of already being acclimated and fitting in at your current location.






Indiana quarterback Jack Tuttle wants to play college football in 2023, and he knows that can't be at Indiana. The redshirt senior, who lost the starting job to Connor Bazelak at the start of the season entered the NCAA transfer portal on Monday morning.

But unlike most other transfers, he's staying at Indiana throughout the 2022 season and still hopes to help the Hoosiers win some football games this year. It's an odd decision, entering the portal now while staying in school, but a lot of the reasoning behind the timing has to do with school schedules and giving himself the best opportunity to find a new home in 2023 without leaving his teammates this year.

"I love my teammates and I'm not going to leave them in the season,'' Tuttle told HoosiersNow.com publisher Tom Brew on Monday morning in an exclusive interview. "I know there are a ton of other people in the NCAA who leave in the middle of the season and I'm not going to do that. Nor will I let this be a distraction or affect how I prepare and lead the team. This just gives me the best chance to play next year and be in the best spot.

"I love my teammates, I really do. I love Bloomington, and I love my school, but that's really it. There's a lot that kind of goes into it. I have one full year left to play the great game of football in college, and maybe in my life. I have been extremely loyal to IU for the past four years, and I'm going to remain loyal to IU through the end of this season. But by being in the portal now, I'm giving myself the time to find the best place for next year and my final season.''

 

[RULoyal]

This is often what I read and what I'm talking about. He's entering the portal but it's still hard for him to leave. Some will leave in the middle of the season to save a redshirt. I've seen that with a few SMU players recently. But in both that instance and this one, it's the chance for more playing time that motivated the transfer not big NIL money. It's going to be some of both but playing time is still limited and a big consideration on top of already being acclimated and fitting in at your current location.






Indiana quarterback Jack Tuttle wants to play college football in 2023, and he knows that can't be at Indiana. The redshirt senior, who lost the starting job to Connor Bazelak at the start of the season entered the NCAA transfer portal on Monday morning.

But unlike most other transfers, he's staying at Indiana throughout the 2022 season and still hopes to help the Hoosiers win some football games this year. It's an odd decision, entering the portal now while staying in school, but a lot of the reasoning behind the timing has to do with school schedules and giving himself the best opportunity to find a new home in 2023 without leaving his teammates this year.

"I love my teammates and I'm not going to leave them in the season,'' Tuttle told HoosiersNow.com publisher Tom Brew on Monday morning in an exclusive interview. "I know there are a ton of other people in the NCAA who leave in the middle of the season and I'm not going to do that. Nor will I let this be a distraction or affect how I prepare and lead the team. This just gives me the best chance to play next year and be in the best spot.

"I love my teammates, I really do. I love Bloomington, and I love my school, but that's really it. There's a lot that kind of goes into it. I have one full year left to play the great game of football in college, and maybe in my life. I have been extremely loyal to IU for the past four years, and I'm going to remain loyal to IU through the end of this season. But by being in the portal now, I'm giving myself the time to find the best place for next year and my final season.''

But will NIL impact where he ends up? Most likely we will never know.

 

[Knight Shift]

This is often what I read and what I'm talking about. He's entering the portal but it's still hard for him to leave. Some will leave in the middle of the season to save a redshirt. I've seen that with a few SMU players recently. But in both that instance and this one, it's the chance for more playing time that motivated the transfer not big NIL money. It's going to be some of both but playing time is still limited and a big consideration on top of already being acclimated and fitting in at your current location.






Indiana quarterback Jack Tuttle wants to play college football in 2023, and he knows that can't be at Indiana. The redshirt senior, who lost the starting job to Connor Bazelak at the start of the season entered the NCAA transfer portal on Monday morning.

But unlike most other transfers, he's staying at Indiana throughout the 2022 season and still hopes to help the Hoosiers win some football games this year. It's an odd decision, entering the portal now while staying in school, but a lot of the reasoning behind the timing has to do with school schedules and giving himself the best opportunity to find a new home in 2023 without leaving his teammates this year.

"I love my teammates and I'm not going to leave them in the season,'' Tuttle told HoosiersNow.com publisher Tom Brew on Monday morning in an exclusive interview. "I know there are a ton of other people in the NCAA who leave in the middle of the season and I'm not going to do that. Nor will I let this be a distraction or affect how I prepare and lead the team. This just gives me the best chance to play next year and be in the best spot.

"I love my teammates, I really do. I love Bloomington, and I love my school, but that's really it. There's a lot that kind of goes into it. I have one full year left to play the great game of football in college, and maybe in my life. I have been extremely loyal to IU for the past four years, and I'm going to remain loyal to IU through the end of this season. But by being in the portal now, I'm giving myself the time to find the best place for next year and my final season.''

Could Tuttle be Penix Jr. 2.0?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I had no idea it would morph into pay for play.
I happen to believe college athletes should be paid for guest appearances, speaking engagements and free market ventures

I was told of a story where the Denver Nuggets MASCOT makes something like $625K a year. It seemed odd because the list of mascots pay had a bunch in the $60K range. Here's a story about what the Nuggets charge for appearances by "Rocky". Does he really make that? Dunno.. but it seems like he might generate more than that.. directly to the Nuggets. Just thought this was an indirectly-related story. Maybe his reported pay was a rounding error.

 

[Retired711]

I was told of a story where the Denver Nuggets MASCOT makes something like $625K a year. It seemed odd because the list of mascots pay had a bunch in the $60K range. Here's a story about what the Nuggets charge for appearances by "Rocky". Does he really make that? Dunno.. but it seems like he might generate more than that.. directly to the Nuggets. Just thought this was an indirectly-related story. Maybe his reported pay was a rounding error.

I don't know what the Phillies Phanatic earns annually -- but it could be even more. Many businesses and families in the Philly area would pay a lot for him to make appearances for them.

 

[365Poster24Seven]

It's not that they are cheap, it's just that they spend their entertainment dollar elsewhere. We could have a lengthy conversation about why that is (and I know I have a strong opinion), but pound-for-pound I would bet Rutgers graduates spend more on entertainment than the average Alabama graduate (or Georgia graduate, or Notre Dame graduate).

I was not on this site for the BIG Build fund. Being here one week I can now say I’d be willing to bet a large sum of money that the members of these boards donated little to nothing to that fund. I’d be willing to bet that the same type of conversations were held about every excuse in the book to not donate a dime to that fund. That was an important fund raising effort where the school asked alums and fans to donate and I remember there were leas than 400 individual donors. The fanbase is cheap look at Tennessee and what their NIL has done in such a short time. They are beating Alabama and Nick Saban was complaining about NIL at the beginning of the season. The fanbase is cheap but we love giving opinions on a message board.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

But will NIL impact where he ends up? Most likely we will never know.

I can't tell you 100% but does he mention NIL...over and over when I read things more often than not it's playing time. There will be some based NIL but I think at least as many if not more are based on playing time, opportunity and utility.

Plus just like Geo referenced, just up and moving isn't a simple decision. Even for this IU qb you can see, he's not really wanting to leave but he wants a chance to play so he that's his only alternative.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Could Tuttle be Penix Jr. 2.0?

No clue but point was there's a lot more motivating movement, if it happens at all, than just NIL. That's just one aspect.

 

[RULoyal]

I can't tell you 100% but does he mention NIL...over and over when I read things more often than not it's playing time. There will be some based NIL but I think at least as many if not more are based on playing time, opportunity and utility.

Plus just like Geo referenced, just up and moving isn't a simple decision. Even for this IU qb you can see, he's not really wanting to leave but he wants a chance to play so he that's his only alternative.

Obviously his potential move was initiated by playing time. If he has two equal satisfactory landing spots and one offers him nothing and the other offers him NIL $$$ - where does he go?

 

[Caliknight]

Their scholarship money should be considered their salary instead. Forget about school. If they want to go to school, apply and fit it in when they aren’t playing. Or don’t.

They are advertising for a university. Start treating them as such.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Obviously his potential move was initiated by playing time. If he has two equal satisfactory landing spots and one offers him nothing and the other offers him NIL $$$ - where does he go?

But where are all these mid tier lower tier schools offering oodles of money to all the transfer candidates? I don't see it yet. Also how often are things exactly equal too, sounds nice in theory but is that reality?

You will lose players like Addison from Pitt or Walker from WF but you will also get some too who are good contributors like the ones I've mentioned here. I don't see a mass exodus from all the lower and mid tier teams to the the upper tier teams. There's a limit on playing time, roster spots, schollies, etc.. Capable talent can be squeezed out from those upper tier teams too, I think Cincy's playoff team had 1 or 2 from Alabama and someone else. On balance I see more opportunities for the lower and mid tier than ever before vs pillaging of their rosters from the upper tier.

 

[rurichdog]

I was not on this site for the BIG Build fund. Being here one week I can now say I’d be willing to bet a large sum of money that the members of these boards donated little to nothing to that fund. I’d be willing to bet that the same type of conversations were held about every excuse in the book to not donate a dime to that fund. That was an important fund raising effort where the school asked alums and fans to donate and I remember there were leas than 400 individual donors. The fanbase is cheap look at Tennessee and what their NIL has done in such a short time. They are beating Alabama and Nick Saban was complaining about NIL at the beginning of the season. The fanbase is cheap but we love giving opinions on a message board.

Big Ten Build Fund hit its $100 Million goal with over 4000 individual contributions, but what's an order of magnitude when dumping on Rutgers fans, right?

 

[RULoyal]

But where are all these mid tier lower tier schools offering oodles of money to all the transfer candidates? I don't see it yet. Also how often are things exactly equal too, sounds nice in theory but is that reality?

You will lose players like Addison from Pitt or Walker from WF but you will also get some too who are good contributors like the ones I've mentioned here. I don't see a mass exodus from all the lower and mid tier teams to the the upper tier teams. There's a limit on playing time, roster spots, schollies, etc.. Capable talent can be squeezed out from those upper tier teams too, I think Cincy's playoff team had 1 or 2 from Alabama and someone else. On balance I see more opportunities for the lower and mid tier than ever before vs pillaging of their rosters from the upper tier.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Is there a database of NIL deals? All we see are the outrageous deals. I tend to focus on RU and right now our NIL collective only focuses on current RU athletes. They do not offer deals to recruits or potential transfers which puts us at a disadvantage. I don't know the specific impact of NIL on transfers but there is impact and it's only negative for RU.