Harsh reality about NIL

[RUScrew85]

While that maybe be true it’s not worth paying for - at least not for me.

Or maybe it's worth paying for great athletics - see the support of pro sports. But that's not what college sports is supposed to be. It's supposed to be the celebration of students who experienced the same stuff you did while enrolled at your alma mater playing against students from another rival college.

If it's paid athletics you want there are better options.

If it's college athletics you wanted well, those days have been slowly evaporating for 50 years. The NIL and open transfers put the final nail in the coffin.

 

[RUScrew85]

Haha ya. This man ^ is right with that critique.

the current tone on the call to arms might be the weirdest approach with respect to a plea for dollars for any product or service I’ve ever heard.

It's right up there with the decision to fight for athletes getting cash compensation. "Hey we're going to the same school as you to fight for alma mater on the basketball court - come watch us play. Now PAY ME to do it."

They shortsightedly killed the golden goose for everyone for a couple of dollars.

Congrats guys.

 

[RUScrew85]

I wonder how many times Geo has posted on this board to talk Rutgers sports. If he has in the past I haven't seen it. But when it comes to money he's over here engaging.

Maybe he was only ever about Geo - and not Rutgers and the shared experience of the student-athlete with the school's fans.

Not a great look.

 

[Randal7]

It's right up there with the decision to fight for athletes getting cash compensation. "Hey we're going to the same school as you to fight for alma mater on the basketball court - come watch us play. Now PAY ME to do it."

They shortsightedly killed the golden goose for everyone for a couple of dollars.

Congrats guys.

Yeah -- its pretty clear thats where we're heading.

Now whether the means were ever noble or warranted can be discussed, but its irrelevant because, the ends are pretty assured: further consolidation of power and money in a dozen institutions (maybe as many as 20?) across the power 2 sports of football and basketball.

 

[pmvon]

The point is that a scholarship doesn’t effect outside compensation for anyone on academic or music scholarship and shouldnt effect an athlete either.

all 3 are are on scholarship to represent the university because of their unique talents. Only one of them had an entity (ncaa) controlling everything else.

Do athletes use university logos or affiliation when making NIL?

The others don’t. Whatever business that’s developed or actually nighttime job, is independent of that.

 

[RUScrew85]

Yeah -- its pretty clear thats where we're heading.

Now whether the means were ever noble or warranted can be discussed, but its irrelevant because, the ends are pretty assured: further consolidation of power and money in a dozen institutions (maybe as many as 20?) across the power 2 sports of football and basketball.

The sad thing is they shortsightedly went to court to get paid to play and might have killed the opportunity to play in the process.

Let's see how much support teams of mercenaries get from folks who want to watch college sports.

 

[patk89]

Past restrictions imposed by the NCAA to prevent recruiting abuses such as not allowing a scholarship athlete to get paid for working summer clinics teaching their sport were unjust. No two ways about it. Some schools played by the rules (Rutgers) and others didn't. I gladly paid for a lacrosse clinic taught by top college players this summer and the players were compensated as they should be (although I'm sure the organizers took the biggest cut). The star player on a nat'l championship football team in the SEC brings in millions for his school. He should be able to reap some of that value. How much? Let the market decide.

Maybe I'm being naive, but in the end, this will all be neutral to RU. We have a seat at the table and strong future revenues from our conference. Our sports are trending up and I like football's future. Men's BB has been amazing thanks to some guys (including one on this thread) taking a chance on RU and solid coaching. Some said it could never happen. Woe is me types. I'm of the mindset that the entire college experience is enhanced by having successful sports teams that allow average students to build lifelong connections to their school. I think we will see a spike in giving when the undergrads from 2005-2012 reach their peak earning years.

 

[RUScrew85]

Yeah -- its pretty clear thats where we're heading.

Now whether the means were ever noble or warranted can be discussed, but its irrelevant because, the ends are pretty assured: further consolidation of power and money in a dozen institutions (maybe as many as 20?) across the power 2 sports of football and basketball.

I guess the Dallas Cowboy fans and Notre Dame fans of the world - most of which have no connection to the teams beyond being front runner fans - will be happy.

The rest of us will check the scores from time to time and maybe go to a game once in a while for old times sake realizing there is now zero chance to compete - even less than a pre NIL/free agent Rutgers team.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

I wonder how many times Geo has posted on this board to talk Rutgers sports. If he has in the past I haven't seen it. But when it comes to money he's over here engaging.

Maybe he was only ever about Geo - and not Rutgers and the shared experience of the student-athlete with the school's fans.

Not a great look.

We all know you don't give a **** about RU sports at this point and just want to yell at the clouds, but if you did, you would know that he often posts a lot about basketball on that forum.

 

[brgRC90]

Yeah -- its pretty clear thats where we're heading.

Now whether the means were ever noble or warranted can be discussed, but its irrelevant because, the ends are pretty assured: further consolidation of power and money in a dozen institutions (maybe as many as 20?) across the power 2 sports of football and basketball.

College football will become an inferior pro league for the states of Alabama, Mississippi, Ohio, Michigan, South Carolina, Oklahoma, maybe Louisiana, basically whoever is better served by college football than the NFL. Everyone else will tune out.

 

[Retired711]

I'm sure it won't be policed perfectly -- no law is -- but at least these "collectives" and other obvious abuses can be banned. (One idea being considered is preventing collectives from being considered as tax-exempt charitable organizations.) So too can institutional involvement in the process, e.g. calling alums together to "suggest" to them that they do NIL deals. The amount paid to athletes for NIL rights can be limited to fair market value of, say, having an athlete's image as part of a car dealer's marketing -- again, not something that can be enforced perfectly, but at least preventing deals that obviously have no purpose other than recruitment.

I think it is *very* unlikely, to say the least, that Congress will ban NIL (which Congress could do if it wants to because, after all, it is Congress that makes the antitrust laws and so Congress can determine what is or is not banned by them.) But Congress will, IMHO, set down some ground rules.

One other thing that can be done is to ban "quid pro quo" --"my offer is good only if you come to my alma mater." That would mean that the car dealer in Columbus would have to go through on his offer even if the kid then decides to go to Michigan.

 

[RUScrew85]

Past restrictions imposed by the NCAA to prevent recruiting abuses such as not allowing a scholarship athlete to get paid for working summer clinics teaching their sport were unjust. No two ways about it. Some schools played by the rules (Rutgers) and others didn't. I gladly paid for a lacrosse clinic taught by top college players this summer and the players were compensated as they should be (although I'm sure the organizers took the biggest cut). The star player on a nat'l championship football team in the SEC brings in millions for his school. He should be able to reap some of that value. How much? Let the market decide.

Maybe I'm being naive, but in the end, this will all be neutral to RU. We have a seat at the table and strong future revenues from our conference. Our sports are trending up and I like football's future. Men's BB has been amazing thanks to some guys (including one on this thread) taking a chance on RU and solid coaching. Some said it could never happen. Woe is me types. I'm of the mindset that the entire college experience is enhanced by having successful sports teams that allow average students to build lifelong connections to their school. I think we will see a spike in giving when the undergrads from 2005-2012 reach their peak earning years.

And how many of those guys "taking a chance on RU" are out the door for more NIL money next year? That's the anticipated outcome. Are they taking a chance at RU in the future or taking the $$$ and the PT to prepare for the next stop next year?

" I'm of the mindset that the entire college experience is enhanced by having successful sports teams that allow average students to build lifelong connections to their school. "

Having a successful sports team made up of one year mercenaries kinda undermines the connection to the school. Might as well go to a Nets game - hell the Nets players might be bound by contract to stay on the team for your four years at school.

Look I'm all for the kids getting whatever money and making whatever decisions they feel they need to make in their best interests. But then don't come to me and tell me you're playing for "our alma mater" when you just happen to be here for the year's PT and for the $$$ and are likely to leave for better $$$ at the end of the season. You're playing for you and your wallet. As I said I can get that at a pro arena - and the pros likely will have a multi-year contract.

 

[Retired711]

BTW, we're also heading for an era in which players are paid. The big question is "who will pay?"

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

Do athletes use university logos or affiliation when making NIL?

The others don’t. Whatever business that’s developed or actually nighttime job, is independent of that.

Nope not allowed to unless they get permission from school and then it’s rev sharing.

 

[The RUT]

I agree, they do. If adidas came in and sponsored the musicians and the academic scholars then I’m sure they would get the same things. It all comes back to who’s bringing in the money lol. I’ll never act like athletes don’t get a bunch of benefits. But it doesn’t change anything.

the only reason NIL is controversial is because the system the ncaa created. You cannot find any other industry in the country where this would be some sort of argument.

Well sure it changes things.

You are using the logic that scholarships between music, academics, and athletes are equal therefore athletes shouldn’t have restrictions and should be able to make money on the side.

I agree no one should say no, you can’t make money doing something since you’re an athlete. But the logic doesn’t track because the scholarships are not equal.

Athletes get wayyy more benefits. Not just from a material aspect, but a social aspect as well.

They just need to become employees of the schools honestly. Remove the scholarships and all that and just pay people to play sports here.

Treat them like minor leagues, create a salary cap, have a players association, and stop acting like they’re amateur athletes.

If you want to go to school at the university you get automatic admittance, but have to pay your own way in terms of books, class, food, etc.

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

I wonder how many times Geo has posted on this board to talk Rutgers sports. If he has in the past I haven't seen it. But when it comes to money he's over here engaging.

Maybe he was only ever about Geo - and not Rutgers and the shared experience of the student-athlete with the school's fans.

Not a great look.

I’m on the basketball board all the time.I don’t know a single thing about football (probably like most of the people here) but i just don’t pretend to lol

 

[RUScrew85]

I’m on the basketball board all the time.I don’t know a single thing about football (probably like most of the people here) but i just don’t pretend to lol

But no problem coming here and schilling for money.

Oh and the ~ people here don't know a single thing about football either ~ isn't going to help your fundraising. Based on that I'd say stick to whatever basketball court you'll be paid to play on. Fund raising doesn't seem to be your forte.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

A 2006 level quality team was FAR more likely for GS to achieve with the old rules of transfer penalties, no portal or run amok NIL, and no teams buying your best players.
You, I and everyone else knew we’d see RR and BL for at least 3 years.
I believe under the old rules of stability and lack of player movement, GS would recruit and keep an NFL level laden team within 5 years.
Now we don’t have a chance in hell, and that includes if everyone of us donated 100 dollars a month.
How this give you hope is beyond me?

Please remember WHY we all wanted GS back!!!
We all knew he had coaching flaws.
We ALL wanted him back for one reason….the man could recruit.
Unfortunately he’s been neutered by NIL and our collectives don’t do bag money for 17 year old juniors in high school

2006 wasn’t happening again

It happened once, in the old big east, without Miami, BC and VT

16 years later, in the B1G, competing against Buckeye, Cult, Walmart etc, it’s a different ball game

My slim hope is Rutgers gets it act together and figures out a way to cash in on NIL

Under the old rules, in the B1G, we weren’t competing. Now, though slim, the potential is there

I’ll repeat it again, the big schools were already doing NIL before NIL. Cars, houses, jobs, etc

If you think we were competing w them bc of fancy slogans, NYC allure, etc then you’re sadly mistaken

 

[RUScrew85]

Well sure it changes things.

You are using the logic that scholarships between music, academics, and athletes are equal therefore athletes shouldn’t have restrictions and should be able to make money on the side.

I agree no one should say no, you can’t make money doing something since you’re an athlete. But the logic doesn’t track because the scholarships are not equal.

Athletes get wayyy more benefits. Not just from a material aspect, but a social aspect as well.

[COLOR=%s]They just need to become employees of the schools honestly. Remove the scholarships and all that and just pay people to play sports here.[/COLOR]

Treat them like minor leagues, create a salary cap, have a players association, and stop acting like they’re amateur athletes.

If you want to go to school at the university you get automatic admittance, but have to pay your own way in terms of books, class, food, etc.

"They just need to become employees of the schools honestly. Remove the scholarships and all that and just pay people to play sports here."

I'm not sure that will be a big attraction for the alumni and fans.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Geo I commend you for starting a collective, and appreciate what you did for the program while on The Banks

You will always be a loyal son, and I’m excited to see what the future holds for your collective and KTR

 

[The RUT]

"They just need to become employees of the schools honestly. Remove the scholarships and all that and just pay people to play sports here."

I'm not sure that will be a big attraction for the alumni and fans.

Maybe not, but then fewer people will attend and watch. That will cause TV contracts to drop, and salary caps will decrease.

Sooner rather than later they will realize they’re making minimum wage and fewer buyers are bidding up the NIL deals.

Then they’ll get taxed and say this isn’t worth it.

Then either college sports will die or it’ll be renewed and we can end this ********.

Let this things runs it’s course, the athletes don’t realize they aren’t the ones bringing the value to the schools/programs. It’s the viewers and fans that bring the value. The second we are lost, they have nothing.

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

But no problem coming here and schilling for money.

Oh and the ~ people here don't know a single thing about football either ~ isn't going to help your fundraising. Based on that I'd say stick to whatever basketball court you'll be paid to play on. Fund raising doesn't seem to be your forte.

Hey man at the end of the day I’ll always share something that i think can help rutgers as a whole. Knight society has already created so many opportunities for student athletes and alumni alike, while also doing a ton of charity work in just a month. Based on that I’d say I’m gonna stick to this

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

Geo I commend you for starting a collective, and appreciate what you did for the program while on The Banks

You will always be a loyal son, and I’m excited to see what the future holds for your collective and KTR

Appreciate that a lot! I think the future is a lot brighter than some foresee. But I’m always extra positive lol

 

[NickRU714]

A 2006 level quality team was FAR more likely for GS to achieve with the old rules of transfer penalties, no portal or run amok NIL, and no teams buying your best players.
You, I and everyone else knew we’d see RR and BL for at least 3 years.
I believe under the old rules of stability and lack of player movement, GS would recruit and keep an NFL level laden team within 5 years.
Now we don’t have a chance in hell, and that includes if everyone of us donated 100 dollars a month.
How this give you hope is beyond me?

Please remember WHY we all wanted GS back!!!
We all knew he had coaching flaws.
We ALL wanted him back for one reason….the man could recruit.
Unfortunately he’s been neutered by NIL and our collectives don’t do bag money for 17 year old juniors in high school

I mean I didn’t want him back.
For exactly why you wanted him.

Hire for coaching - not recruiting.
As you literally said yourself - being an elite recruiter isn’t as valuable since players can easily move on.

Coaches need to be able to adapt and coach the players on the team.

You make a good argument to replace HC Schiano

 

[NickRU714]

"They just need to become employees of the schools honestly. Remove the scholarships and all that and just pay people to play sports here."

I'm not sure that will be a big attraction for the alumni and fans.

We pay people to coach sports here.
Everyone agrees the players already being paid in-kind (scholarship, room, meals).
It’s just a matter of amount.

The ongoing gymnastics to explain why only the athletes should be “amateurs” and not the coaches is quite the spectacle.

 

[pmvon]

Nope not allowed to unless they get permission from school and then it’s rev sharing.

Thanks

 

[pmvon]

"Sports are ancillary"

Also - Rutgers Athletics to bring in $100m/year in media revenue.
And yet still "Our pursuit of excellence, and climb to the top of the Big Ten, starts with every single member of Rutgers Nation."

Doesn't sound very ancillary to the Athletic Department and their beg for money.
https://giving.scarletknights.com/pages/home-25

What’s RUs budget? How much does sports revenue up of that budget?

 

[RUScrew85]

Maybe not, but then fewer people will attend and watch. That will cause TV contracts to drop, and salary caps will decrease.

Sooner rather than later they will realize they’re making minimum wage and fewer buyers are bidding up the NIL deals.

Then they’ll get taxed and say this isn’t worth it.

Then either college sports will die or it’ll be renewed and we can end this ********.

Let this things runs it’s course, the athletes don’t realize they aren’t the ones bringing the value to the schools/programs. It’s the viewers and fans that bring the value. The second we are lost, they have nothing.

Probably. What a disaster. Just when RU committed for real, got into a great situation with the B1G, all teams are on the upswing. Men's basketball in a renaissance. The universe throws us another curve.

I hope it doesn't end up as bad as I think it will. Afterall there's way more front running Notre Dame and Cowboy fans then folks who actually have a connect to team like that so maybe RU sports doesn't end up as bad as I fear.

Sigh.

 

[NickRU714]

Maybe not, but then fewer people will attend and watch. That will cause TV contracts to drop, and salary caps will decrease.

Sooner rather than later they will realize they’re making minimum wage and fewer buyers are bidding up the NIL deals.

Then they’ll get taxed and say this isn’t worth it.

Then either college sports will die or it’ll be renewed and we can end this ********.

Let this things runs it’s course, the athletes don’t realize they aren’t the ones bringing the value to the schools/programs. It’s the viewers and fans that bring the value. The second we are lost, they have nothing.

How many schools have dropped football in the last 10 years?

You have one conference making $1b/year while most other conferences make less than $10m/year.
Schools making over $100m/year competing against schools making less than $1m/year.

Surely all these non-competative schools are dropping football like you project will happen.

Let's compare that against schools moving UP to FBS.

 

[RUScrew85]

We pay people to coach sports here.
Everyone agrees the players already being paid in-kind (scholarship, room, meals).
It’s just a matter of amount.

The ongoing gymnastics to explain why only the athletes should be “amateurs” and not the coaches is quite the spectacle.

They don't have to be amateurs but they do have to be students and they need to have a connection to the school to be a part of the college sports experience. NIL and free agency undermine that.

You want to go to amateurs coaches, OK with me. The further college sports gets from Pro sports the happier I'll be. Let a Engineering professor coach - LOLOL.

Also I think you're conflating the benefits the school provides and asking fans to pay players. Two different things. Full scholarship academic students get the same benefits - until now.

Anyway. I've made my points, I'm tired of typing. All that's left is watching this play out in the next 10 - 20 years.

 

[NickRU714]

Won't quote since you said your done and don't want to fill up notifications.

"Also I think you're conflating the benefits the school provides and asking fans to pay players. Two different things. Full scholarship academic students get the same benefits - until now."

The AD literally asks fans to pay for benefits the "school" provides by begging for and mandating donations.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Or maybe it's worth paying for great athletics - see the support of pro sports. But that's not what college sports is supposed to be. It's supposed to be the celebration of students who experienced the same stuff you did while enrolled at your alma mater playing against students from another rival college.

This is spot on.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

I don't see any earth shattering dynamics shifting beyond what already exists. A lot of players transfer but I don't see the top players of all these lower level teams moving on to other teams for NIL deals etc..More often I read it's for playing time and utility than NIL.

Jordan Addison from Pitt to USC is the one that comes to mind and that's almost all I can think of off the top of my head. I can't think of others. Travis Dye from Oregon to USC but was that NIL (Oregon could probably match anything) or more wanting to be part of Lincoln Riley's offense. Oregon isn't a pauper either. I'm obviously not familiar with every roster but do have some familiarity with qbs. I took a look at the top 25ish qbs from last year and I think most, if not all, that didn't graduate are still on the same team. These aren't all high status programs either. I've always said there will be balance between playing time/utility and NIL and each individual will have to decide for themselves. But in practice/reality for now at least from what I read, it seems more about the playing time/utility vs NIL.

On top of not losing as many top players as you think are going to be lost to NIL, players can be found too. I mentioned above Charlie Jones from Iowa to Purdue for a reason. Did he go from Iowa to Purdue for NIL? Or because of how poorly he was being utilized. He's a top receiver in the country this year. Of all places to find a top WR in the country....Iowa's offense LOL. But there it is and Brohm found a top contributor to his offense from the most unlikely of places. I think too much doom and gloom. Mostly I see opportunity and not just in theory but in reality. You're going to lose players and you'll get players and not all will be bad and it's up to the coach to figure it out.

 

[rurichdog]

Geo I commend you for starting a collective, and appreciate what you did for the program while on The Banks

You will always be a loyal son, and I’m excited to see what the future holds for your collective and KTR

Starting his own collective was very smart business. What's the percentage that comes off the top of everyone else's deals?

 

[RUAldo]

How many schools have dropped football in the last 10 years?

You have one conference making $1b/year while most other conferences make less than $10m/year.
Schools making over $100m/year competing against schools making less than $1m/year.

Surely all these non-competative schools are dropping football like you project will happen.

Let's compare that against schools moving UP to FBS.

The rich will get richer…the poor will get poorer and shut down their programs. You’ll be left with a bunch of power conference college teams that eventually resemble a semi-pro league…that will then detach itself from the colleges and affiliate with NFL teams as minor leagues. At least, that’s one possible scenario.

 

[Randal7]

I’m on the basketball board all the time.I don’t know a single thing about football (probably like most of the people here) but i just don’t pretend to lol

This is true. He's commented on a jacob young thread at least once

 

[RUInsanityToo]

But no problem coming here and schilling for money.

Oh and the ~ people here don't know a single thing about football either ~ isn't going to help your fundraising. Based on that I'd say stick to whatever basketball court you'll be paid to play on. Fund raising doesn't seem to be your forte.

He's in his early 20's trying to do what he feels will make a mark towards something he believes in.

You're a 60ish old man yelling at the kids in the neighborhood to keep their ball off your lawn

 

[RU4Real]

You're a 60ish old man yelling at the kids in the neighborhood to keep their ball off your lawn

But that's what he does and we appreciate him for it.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

But that's what he does and we appreciate him for it.

Maybe in your tailgate. But its a bit over the top on this board and telling one of our former players who is trying to make a difference to essentially "shut up and dribble" is not appropriate.

 

[Geo_Baker_1]

Starting his own collective was very smart business. What's the percentage that comes off the top of everyone else's deals?

We have a lot of different ways for athletes to get paid. For our membership program ks athletes get 75 percent.

If we help facilitate a deal for an athlete we’ll charge a business 15 percent. So say the athlete gets a 1k deal through us, we would charge the business 1150.

The third way is businesses can come on as full knight society partners where we charge a monthly fee. We then help our partners form a marketing plan using our resources and our student athletes.

Lastly is the charity promotions where student athletes get a much smaller percentage of the money sent because of 501c3 rules.

having said all of this nobody that has done work building knight society including myself has been paid lol. But it’s fun i really enjoy doing it and I’ve made great connections from it.