EJ entering draft!

[Son_Of_Saul]

Read that first paragraph and realize the ridiculously specific framework you just created in order to slant it as a negative. That's not a discussion worth having.

The flipside is that I'm unsure how anyone could slant all of those draft decisions as an immediate positive, when we know Cal told about six of them it would be a wiser move to return to school.

Additionally, my point stands. Arizona, Duke, and Kansas are not losing their fringe first rounders to the draft the way we are.

There's many reasons for that, including the fact that often get more of those players than those schools do, but you attempted to conflate those teams with UK's very unique experience, and it's not particularly similar in each case.

Lastly, I think EJ returns, but it wouldn't be like he broke cadence with precedent by staying in and getting drafted 2nd round.

 

[fisherscat]

And those people lack the information and context needed to have this discussion. Every one of those guys made the right choice. We have no reason to believe EJ wont as well.

It very well may have been the right choice for them. Who knows? All I know is that it makes the roster situation untenable and not something the Novas and UNCs deal with.

 

[fisherscat]

I think some of you are being a little bit naive if you think there’s a 0% chance he stays in the draft. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised one way or the other.

If he does no big deal...he made the right choice, players first program, we will find someone to replace him, rinse and repeat.

 

[bookerfan66]

I think some of you are being a little bit naive if you think there’s a 0% chance he stays in the draft. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised one way or the other.

Especially with agents now being able to get involved and fill them with BS to get money.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Keldon won’t make an NBA roster next year despite going near or right outside the lottery lol?

Wanna make a friendly wager?

He picks and chooses kinda funny. EJ is 6'9" barefooted and KJ is 6'5", that isn't the way you list guys though. Add an inch, KJ gains but EJ still isn't 6'11". KJ just needs to mature a bit, work on his body and he'll be fine. He'll be a top 20 pick so there is almost no way he isn't on a roster. EJ on the other hand has said he won't stay in the draft unless he is assured of being in round 1. I don't think there is any chance of that, so, we'll get EJ back. Next year, EJ will be a top 20 pick, if not lottery.

 

[Dablueman]

Why wouldn’t he it’s like getting a practice interview for ur dream job! If for some reason he has a switch click and puts it all together and stays well cal will jus pursue a reclass. Or crank up the pursuit of a grad transfer but truth is all this is is doing exactly what pj did and find out what he needs to work on. I’m glad he is because odds are he comes back and now I see he is ambitious and that tells me he will work hard on improving. I suggest some of y’all go read some articles on EJ’s family and you will see this is the kind of family that will help him make the best decisions

 

[oldsports_]

EJ will be a star in 4 years. His upside is Skal like.
Most knew he was gone when Cal got the grad transfer. I'm happy for him, he is leaving based on potential, thanks for the E8 EJ!

 

[CROCAT]

The flipside is that I'm unsure how anyone could slant all of those draft decisions as an immediate positive, when we know Cal told about six of them it would be a wiser move to return to school.

Additionally, my point stands. Arizona, Duke, and Kansas are not losing their fringe first rounders to the draft the way we are.

There's many reasons for that, including the fact that often get more of those players than those schools do, but you attempted to conflate those teams with UK's very unique experience, and it's not particularly similar in each case.

Lastly, I think EJ returns, but it wouldn't be like he broke cadence with precedent by staying in and getting drafted 2nd round.

Didnt that Grimes kid from Kansas just declare after one of the worst "OAD" seasons of all time, Frank Jackson left Duke with a second round grade and so on...this is a college basketball problem, not just Kentucky and Cal's

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Those guys all made good decisions. EJ will too.

What's your basis for a "Good decision?" An instant pay day that "maximizes career earnings?"

If true, did Knox make a good decision by turning down over a million bucks overseas when the money was offered to him? It's hard for me to imagine him getting drafted in a worse spot than #9 overall had he gone overseas. In other words, he could have made that money and been drafted in the exact same spot. Why waste a year at Kentucky?

 

[fisherscat]

Why wouldn’t he it’s like getting a practice interview for ur dream job! If for some reason he has a switch click and puts it all together and stays well cal will jus pursue a reclass. Or crank up the pursuit of a grad transfer but truth is all this is is doing exactly what pj did and find out what he needs to work on. I’m glad he is because odds are he comes back and now I see he is ambitious and that tells me he will work hard on improving. I suggest some of y’all go read some articles on EJ’s family and you will see this is the kind of family that will help him make the best decisions

From his statement it sounds like a guy who ain’t coming back regardless. We will see.

 

[kyups01]

I needed a good laugh this morning.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Didnt that Grimes kid from Kansas just declare after one of the worst "OAD" seasons of all time, Frank Jackson left Duke with a second round grade and so on...this is a college basketball problem, not just Kentucky and Cal's

You picked a few examples. My point is that it happens more at UK regarding fringe first round kids.

Kansas might be comparable, but I'd still have to see the decade-long numbers.

 

[TortElvisII]

Succeed and proceed probably means average double figures or be some monster defensively. Where did EJ succeed? I get Herro and KJ.

 

[ukmelanie]

He did average 4 whole points so that should make him an NBA player.You just have to laugh at this point.

 

[TortElvisII]

You picked a few examples. My point is that it happens more at UK regarding fringe first round kids.

Kansas might be comparable, but I'd still have to see the decade-long numbers.

Culture

 

[docholiday51]

Just to get this straight... “no man’s land” is getting within one shot of the Final Four two out of three seasons? Is that how it works?

What would you call it if we were actually struggling?

I think the poster has a point,we are good enough to be in the the mix most every year,but not quite good enough to make the FF or win it all.The same can be said for Duke over the past couple of years.

The revolving door at UK has sped up over the past couple of years yet we are not getting the top tier talent(for whatever reason) If UK had gotten the Bagley class or the Zion class we might have won it all(or at least made a better run than Duke did) I think we are in a Elite 8 no man's land.we have a good shot to get there but little chance of going beyond that level.

Last year we were lucky to get as far as we did yet we had a golden opportunity to advance but weren't good enough to take advantage of it.
Most of the season the collective wisdom of the board was that this team had sweet sixteen level talent. I submit that we are stuck in the upper middle class/high end no man's land of college basketball.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Not outraged.

Recognizing silliness is actually a good trait.

Why is it “silly” to go to a free evaluation? Cal has always encouraged all his players to do so.

It’s certainly no sillier than many on here frothing at the mouth with anger at this news or the pictures of tyler and his new car...

Edit- yes I agree it would be silly and a terrible decision if EJ were to declare with no guarantee, but I don’t believe that to be the case here .

 

[dcw62]

I think E.J. will be back,but that's not a guarantee...We thought Vanderbilt would be back(and he was hurt).The NBA is "potential" driven so who knows what type of feedback he will get.All we can do is wait.

 

[TortElvisII]

Why is it “silly” to go to a free evaluation? Cal has always encouraged all his players to do so.

It’s certainly no sillier than many on here frothing at the mouth with anger at this news or the pictures of tyler and his new car...

Edit- yes I agree it would be silly and a terrible decision if EJ were to declare with no guarantee, but I don’t believe that to be the case here .

He averaged four and four. He was seventh or eighth man. I have no problem with getting evaluated. His statement looked like he is not getting evaluated. Could be wrong.

Participate and proceed.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Time to go. Free agency at its finest.

Why with bb I don't schedule everything to watch games anymore...dvr them and watch them later if I want. Let these kids go from HS. Why I don't like the guaranteed scholarship thing. Kids come here play one year, not help UK accomplish anything, leave and come back to get to get their education for FREE.. Don't like it..

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Why is it “silly” to go to a free evaluation? Cal has always encouraged all his players to do so.

It’s certainly no sillier than many on here frothing at the mouth with anger at this news or the pictures of tyler and his new car...

Edit- yes I agree it would be silly and a terrible decision if EJ were to declare with no guarantee, but I don’t believe that to be the case here .

This is fair.

There are some positing here who won't take that last step, however. If EJ stays in the draft, they won't admit that it's the type of thing that actually keeps us from taking that next step in the tournament.

 

[BourbonBalz]

At this point I don’t really care who leaves and who comes back anymore. There’s absolutely nothing I can do about it so why worry about it. The sun will come up tomorrow and next season will come with or without any specific player. Some will make good decisions and it’ll work out for them. Some will make bad decisions and regret it. It’s their choice.

 

[Ky_Bred_Cat]

Why are so many acting as if this is a surprise? It was predicted by many in the so called sports media and was expected. It's a wise move for a borderline player to test the waters and get feedback.

He has the potential that gets some players drafted fairly high. If he can sneak into the first round, although not likely, he's absolutely done the right thing by testing the waters this year.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Our program is literally stuck in no mans land at this point. We aren’t getting the very top players anymore and the second tier guys we are getting are still leaving after a year and not giving us much in return. On top of that we still can’t hold on to our role players like Baker. Cal really needs to readjust his philosophy on how he builds his roster.

Curious, other than maybe Nova ... which program would you want to trade places with?

 

[CROCAT]

Curious, other than maybe Nova ... which program would you want to trade places with?

Roy Williams and UNC do it the best...not rent a player like UK and Duke or 4 year guys like Virginia, but a great mix of both

Then again, Roy is a jacka$$ who lies to his players about their draft stock and begs them to stay to protect his own interests...Also players do have to go to class here

 

[502 Wildcat]

He’d be dumb not to take advantage of the rules in place to get feedback.

He will be back, and be will be a Star next season.

 

[fisherscat]

This is fair.

There are some positing here who won't take that last step, however. If EJ stays in the draft, they won't admit that it's the type of thing that actually keeps us from taking that next step in the tournament.

I think it's strange to observe the unwillingness of some to admit that this is unique to Kentucky--and is more of a detriment than a plus--when it comes to consistently having a roster capable of winning a title.

I think most of these strongholds are just realists who see this is as the byproduct of the current system, and believe Cal's approach is as good as any other in fielding a roster that can consistently compete for a title. Fair enough.

But some love Cal more than UK.

And we haven't heard anything from Nick yet.

 

[UKfan2151]

In E.J.'s case, why does he even need to "test the waters" or be "evaluated"? Here is an evaluation: He needs to get significantly better at EVERYTHING before he even starts to think about anything NBA related.

 

[fisherscat]

In E.J.'s case, why does he even need to "test the waters" or be "evaluated"? Here is an evaluation: He needs to get significantly better at EVERYTHING before he even starts to think about anything NBA related.

Hope Cal told him that.

 

[GonzoCat90]

What's your basis for a "Good decision?" An instant pay day that "maximizes career earnings?"

If true, did Knox make a good decision by turning down over a million bucks overseas when the money was offered to him? It's hard for me to imagine him getting drafted in a worse spot than #9 overall had he gone overseas. In other words, he could have made that money and been drafted in the exact same spot. Why waste a year at Kentucky?

My basis for good decision is the same it's always been: will another year improve your situation enough to be worth the extra year?

So it's smart for Orton and Vanderbilt to go because of injuries. It's smart for Gabriel to go because he's never going to be a first rounder and is already a year old for his class. It's smart for Ulis to go because he's always going to be 5'9.

I thought Knox could have made either choice last year, but he ended up drafted higher than I expected he would, so he made the right call. The overseas thing has too many variables to be a viable alternative. SGA is much better than I expected, same for him.

I think EJ stands to become a top-20 guy next year with a full time role and adjusting to the game and all that. If he doesn't improve his stock, I think he should go ahead and leave because he'll have had the opportunity to play and the chance to physically develop for two years. If you're not a first rounder then, you lose the mystique of upside and it starts looking like you are what you are.

I think that's why we see a lot of guys ultimately leave/transfer after two years. By then, you're out of excuses for why you aren't better. If you're going to be a pro, you better start making it happen. If you haven't cracked the rotation, you aren't going to beat out next year's guys either and you need to find a place you can play.

Fans want guys to stay and hope they develop into a guy who can give you 15 minutes a game as a senior. In reality, those guys have a life and career to pursue, and rolling the dice on *maybe* getting to a point that mediocre isn't a very good plan.

 

[Aike]

Have to admit that was funny.

So is the crowd that refuses to acknowledge the brand here that Cal built has gotten a bit absurd, and making it more diffcult to compete for titles.

The turnover is just ridiculousness. And even if EJ stays at uK Cal is trying to recruit without the recruits or Cal knowing if he will be on the roster next year. Not sure why folks think this is negative.

Cal built a brand that was better at competing for titles than anything we’d seen since the 90s. Now we have just settled back into a more normal range.

Still, it took a lot of good luck to make Final Fours in ‘11 and ‘14 and a little bad luck (or whatever you want to call it) to miss in ‘17 and ‘19. The difference is that we aren’t getting those ‘12 or ‘15 level teams.

And how much of that is on Cal? Elite recruits mysteriously don’t want to come here as much as they did a few years ago.

Solution? Get a few 10-20 type guys who stick around (PJ, Ashton, IQ). Mix in some quality grad transfers (Reid, Sestina). Make a deep run.

It isn’t as much fun as having the stacked hand of ‘12 or ‘15, but what are the alternatives? Cal is far from perfect, but what better ideas do you have?

I’m pretty comfortable with the roster Cal assembles 90% of the time. I’m less energetic about his style of play, but I recognize its effectiveness.

 

[UKGrad93]

Don’t tell me your jealous of Herro and KJ too??

But hey, they’ll have nice cars to drive around. It will just be sad about 10 years later when the money runs out and they are driving those cars around with windows that don’t go up or down anymore because they can’t afford to fix it.







Who am I kidding. I wish I could buy an expensive car.

Yep.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Roy Williams and UNC do it the best...not rent a player like UK and Duke or 4 year guys like Virginia, but a great mix of both

Then again, Roy is a jacka$$ who lies to his players about their draft stock and begs them to stay to protect his own interests...Also players do have to go to class here

So you... want to be like UNC and Roy Williams? The same school that literally shamed the sport by cheating for decades?

Honestly curious why you'd use a known cheating school/ coach as an example? (Not being combative)

So again, aside from MAYBE Nova which coach and program should: would you like to trade places with?

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Yep.

LOL, so you can predict the future? It is their decision to make brother, not yours and it’s very weird how intimate and how much thought you’re putting into the potential future financial and career downfall of two 19 year old Kentucky players.
I legitimately and genuinely feel sorry for you my man. You make solid posts , but... sheesh brother...it seems as if you’re lacking (maybe?) happiness in other areas of your life.

I understand the frustration of roster turnover EVERY year. It sucks. It’s getting old but some it you guys are taking this way to far and getting way to emotional.

Take care and be well.

 

[Aike]

I think the poster has a point,we are good enough to be in the the mix most every year,but not quite good enough to make the FF or win it all.The same can be said for Duke over the past couple of years.

The revolving door at UK has sped up over the past couple of years yet we are not getting the top tier talent(for whatever reason) If UK had gotten the Bagley class or the Zion class we might have won it all(or at least made a better run than Duke did) I think we are in a Elite 8 no man's land.we have a good shot to get there but little chance of going beyond that level.

Last year we were lucky to get as far as we did yet we had a golden opportunity to advance but weren't good enough to take advantage of it.
Most of the season the collective wisdom of the board was that this team had sweet sixteen level talent. I submit that we are stuck in the upper middle class/high end no man's land of college basketball.

You can’t be within one shot of the Final Four two out of three years, and also not be good enough to make the Final Four.

We were not lucky last year and we did not have Sweet Sixteen level talent. Wasn’t the case in 2017 either. Both seasons, we were two seeds who were right in the mix for the title.

We always need to remember to judge ourselves against the competition, rather than against our own expectations.

 

[seccats04]

Curious, other than maybe Nova ... which program would you want to trade places with?

I don’t want to trade places with any other program. But I would like to only see maybe 2 or 3 OADs per year as opposed to 4 or 5. Get a couple of 4 star kids in that class that will probably stay knowing they don’t have a whole crop of 5 stars coming in that Cal will cater to and relegate them to the bench. Look at the Auburn game for example. Hagans had 7 turnovers and was awful but had a much longer leash than Baker. Baker made one bad play and he never came back in and Cal told him he wasn’t going back in. I’m upset that Baker is leaving but I understand why. He wasn’t going to get a fair shake here.

 

[UKGrad93]

I legitimately feel sorry for you my man. You make solid posts , but... sheesh brother...

I don't need your pitty Frank. Cold hard cash on the other hand...

 

[jameslee32]

My impression has always been 3-5 guys would test the waters at minimum. EJ is in that group. Cal may have tipped his hand signing Sestina so quickly as well.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

I don’t want to trade places with any other program. But I would like to only see maybe 2 or 3 OADs per year as opposed to 4 or 5. Get a couple of 4 star kids in that class that will probably stay knowing they don’t have a whole crop of 5 stars coming in that Cal will cater to and relegate them to the bench. Look at the Auburn game for example. Hagans had 7 turnovers and was awful but had a much longer leash than Baker. Baker made one bad play and he never came back in and Cal told him he wasn’t going back in. I’m upset that Baker is leaving but I understand why. He wasn’t going to get a fair shake here.

I understand what you mean.

That being said, Hagans was much much better on defense and had more experience which (albeit he didn’t play great) was needed in a high profile tournament game know

 

[FrankUnderwood]

My impression has always been 3-5 guys would test the waters at minimum. EJ is in that group. Cal may have tipped his hand signing Sestina so quickly as well.

No!!!!!!! Far cal!