Dems are now scrambling

[EERs 3:16]

Which for a lot of reasons is a good thing. First thing Dems will tell is you is “well Obama gave the DACA kids protection”...yeah but no he didin’t. Whe he did was issue an EO and even then he wasn’t sure that he (Obama) had the legal authority to do. So what Trump is now asking is that Congress make the DACA protections legal....or at least but them on better ground than Obama’s EO did. Also, Dems are now forced to come back to the bargaining table with something that includes the wall (polling will indicate that the American people are okay with Trump’s proposal) and if they don’t then Trump would be justified in declaring a national emergency along the southern border and the DACA kids get screwed again. Finally, Dems who live in Trump country are going to going to be screaming to vote on this proposal.....because it provides them with some political cover from their Right leaning voters......

Grab your popcorn.....

 

[atlkvb]

Which for a lot of reasons is a good thing. First thing Dems will tell is you is “well Obama gave the DACA kids protection”...yeah but no he didin’t. Whe he did was issue an EO and even then he wasn’t sure that he (Obama) had the legal authority to do. So what Trump is now asking is that Congress make the DACA protections legal....or at least but them on better ground than Obama’s EO did. Also, Dems are now forced to come back to the bargaining table with something that includes the wall (polling will indicate that the American people are okay with Trump’s proposal) and if they don’t then Trump would be justified in declaring a national emergency along the southern border and the DACA kids get screwed again. Finally, Dems who live in Trump country are going to going to be screaming to vote on this proposal.....because it provides them with some political cover from their Right leaning voters......

Grab your popcorn.....

Dems do not want the immigration issue solved. Neither do many Republicans. The Democrat radical Left wing wants open borders, and the more moderate sections of the Republican party... the RINOs... want the steady supply of cheap labor for their well healed donor/ lobby class.

The main reason neither faction wants the issue solved is votes. Both sides use it to collect votes and stay in power. Dems want a permanent dependent underclass, Republicans want a regular supply of cheap labor for agriculture, hospitality and the service industry lobby. It's all a giant scam.

 

[boomerwv]

Which for a lot of reasons is a good thing. First thing Dems will tell is you is “well Obama gave the DACA kids protection”...yeah but no he didin’t. Whe he did was issue an EO and even then he wasn’t sure that he (Obama) had the legal authority to do. So what Trump is now asking is that Congress make the DACA protections legal....or at least but them on better ground than Obama’s EO did. Also, Dems are now forced to come back to the bargaining table with something that includes the wall (polling will indicate that the American people are okay with Trump’s proposal) and if they don’t then Trump would be justified in declaring a national emergency along the southern border and the DACA kids get screwed again. Finally, Dems who live in Trump country are going to going to be screaming to vote on this proposal.....because it provides them with some political cover from their Right leaning voters......

Grab your popcorn.....

The courts have upheld DACA and SCOTUS isn't going to be hearing the case......So what does temporary protection offer?

 

[WVUBRU]

The courts have upheld DACA and SCOTUS isn't going to be hearing the case......So what does temporary protection offer?

It doesn't offer them anything. It allows Republicans not to address the issue and vote on permanent status at the same time frame the current discussion a certain way in their piss poor attempt of spinning a PR stunt. Bunch of cowards.

 

[Boomboom521]

Anything to control the narrative

 

[Mntneer]

The courts have upheld DACA and SCOTUS isn't going to be hearing the case......So what does temporary protection offer?

Isn't going to be hearing the case.... this term. Nothing prevents the court from bringing it up and hearing arguments in October.

So why not seek passage of an actual law to protect the DACA kids and not rely solely on an EO.

 

[dave]

The courts have upheld DACA and SCOTUS isn't going to be hearing the case......So what does temporary protection offer?

It offers actual law signed by the president instead of a whim of a judge.

 

[JWG66]

Dems do not want the immigration issue solved. Neither do many Republicans. The Democrat radical Left wing wants open borders, and the more moderate sections of the Republican party... the RINOs... want the steady supply of cheap labor for their well healed donor/ lobby class.

The main reason neither faction wants the issue solved is votes. Both sides use it to collect votes and stay in power. Dems want a permanent dependent underclass, Republicans want a regular supply of cheap labor for agriculture, hospitality and the service industry lobby. It's all a giant scam.

This covers it pretty well but a lack of trust on both sides has been a deterrent to any agreement. It’s going to a disaster to make any real headway, imho.

 

[atlkvb]

This covers it pretty well but a lack of trust on both sides has been a deterrent to any agreement. It’s going to a disaster to make any real headway, imho.

I think once an illegal kills one of their Family members...then we'll see something done. Until then, neither side sees this as a crisis. They have no skin in the game except keeping their cushy jobs. That's why they don't want the problem solved.

 

[atlkvb]

It doesn't offer them anything. It allows Republicans not to address the issue and vote on permanent status at the same time frame the current discussion a certain way in their piss poor attempt of spinning a PR stunt. Bunch of cowards.

When Democrat activists march screaming and yelling "no borders no wall, no USA at all" who on your side condemns them or calls them out as misguided wackos?

Do you?

 

[atlkvb]

So why not seek passage of an actual law to protect the DACA kids and not rely solely on an EO.

Because a Law would require these cowards (in both parties) to actually do something about finally fixing the problem. As I said, neither side really wants the problem solved. They use it to bash the other side and stay in power.

 

[JWG66]

I think once an illegal kills one of their Family members...then we'll see something done. Until then, neither side sees this as a crisis. They have no skin in the game except keeping their cushy jobs. That's why they don't want the problem solved.

My fears are worse. It only takes 10 -12 to form a cell. That number could mix in with one caravan. Who knows what harm they could do. I would rather proactively keep em out.

 

[atlkvb]

My fears are worse. It only takes 10 -12 to form a cell. That number could mix in with one caravan. Who knows what harm they could do. I would rather proactively keep em out.

Oh no doubt. In fact it's essentially an open invitation for someone with sinister designs to come in here and do exactly what you're suggesting. We need to solve this open border question if for no other reason it's a safety issue!

 

[boomerwv]

Isn't going to be hearing the case.... this term. Nothing prevents the court from bringing it up and hearing arguments in October.

So why not seek passage of an actual law to protect the DACA kids and not rely solely on an EO.

Then offer that.

 

[dave]

Then offer that.

He did.

 

[JWG66]

He did.

My memory was DT started with a simple offer for DACA undocumenteds. But that opened many trust issues that would not be handled. Mainly:

1. The border was still unsecured so giving status to DACAs would incent more Caravans of migrants.
2. So fix the border. Well we all see how well that’s going.
3. Our laws on asylum are weak and are being abused to gain time in country till the courts can hear their case. Of course the courts are swamped and many just don’t show up for their hearing.
4. Chain migration was also thrown on the table. Once status was provided to DACAs, what does that mean for their parents, grandparents, and other relatives?
5. The Freedom Caucus rose up against 3 & 4 and any offer that gave voting rights to line jumpers. Again it sends invites to the next caravans.

So, when Congress can’t even appropriate 2 cents of a budget dollar to fix the border, why would anyone think that the overall problem can be addressed? Congress is broken. It will take some type of emergency to get something done. Just my opinion.

 

[WVUBRU]

Congress has offered billions for border security.

 

[mule_eer]

My memory was DT started with a simple offer for DACA undocumenteds. But that opened many trust issues that would not be handled. Mainly:

1. The border was still unsecured so giving status to DACAs would incent more Caravans of migrants.
2. So fix the border. Well we all see how well that’s going.
3. Our laws on asylum are weak and are being abused to gain time in country till the courts can hear their case. Of course the courts are swamped and many just don’t show up for their hearing.
4. Chain migration was also thrown on the table. Once status was provided to DACAs, what does that mean for their parents, grandparents, and other relatives?
5. The Freedom Caucus rose up against 3 & 4 and any offer that gave voting rights to line jumpers. Again it sends invites to the next caravans.

So, when Congress can’t even appropriate 2 cents of a budget dollar to fix the border, why would anyone think that the overall problem can be addressed? Congress is broken. It will take some type of emergency to get something done. Just my opinion.

1. DACA is pretty narrowly defined, and someone coming in today isn't eligible for those protection. The new folks are incentivized by hope for better lives, but not DACA protection.

2-4. That's an immigration reform plan, not a budget plan. Why are Park Rangers not getting a paycheck over a bunch of things that should be in a policy bill, not a budget.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

1. DACA is pretty narrowly defined, and someone coming in today isn't eligible for those protection. The new folks are incentivized by hope for better lives, but not DACA protection.

2-4. That's an immigration reform plan, not a budget plan. Why are Park Rangers not getting a paycheck over a bunch of things that should be in a policy bill, not a budget.

Because we’re allowing our elected leaders on both sides to act like children. The Dems ran on “resist” and took the house. We’re getting what we voted for. This is our own fault. It’s not like we were blind to what Trump was and it’s not like we were blind to what a Dem majority in the House would be.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

1. DACA is pretty narrowly defined, and someone coming in today isn't eligible for those protection. The new folks are incentivized by hope for better lives, but not DACA protection.

2-4. That's an immigration reform plan, not a budget plan. Why are Park Rangers not getting a paycheck over a bunch of things that should be in a policy bill, not a budget.

In what universe will every future President not just shut down the government to get whatever partisan policy issue they want? Hold the the economy/government/country hostage to pwn the libz/cons!

What a future

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

In what universe will every future President not just shut down the government to get whatever partisan policy issue they want? Hold the the economy/government/country hostage to pwn the libz/cons!

What a future

It’s not just the President. Congress is also at fault.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

It’s not just the President. Congress is also at fault.

meh. About 85/15 President here. Again, why not open up the government (or never close the government) and be the great deal maker he claims he is? The Democrats want nothing these next 2 years? I doubt that, but fine. Should make his re-election easier and sweep the R's back into control of the House.

This was not a priority for 2 f'n years.

Incentivizing this ransom strategy is ridiculous, imo.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

meh. About 85/15 President here. Again, why not open up the government (or never close the government) and be the great deal maker he claims he is? The Democrats want nothing these next 2 years? I doubt that, but fine. Should make his re-election easier and sweep the R's back into control of the House.

This was not a priority for 2 f'n years.

Incentivizing this ransom strategy is ridiculous, imo.

You see it that way because you hate the current President. Congress is bulking over $5 billion dollars which is a rounding error in the overall context of the budget. They’re both being unreasonable.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

You see it that way because you hate the current President. Congress is bulking over $5 billion dollars which is a rounding error in the overall context of the budget. They’re both being unreasonable.

I hate the current President....and the ones in the future that will hold these same hostage "negotiations". You'll hate the next President that does it for new air quality standards or medicare for all. Guess it's just easier to dismiss the argument because I hate this awful President? Fair enough. Good luck!

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I hate the current President....and the ones in the future that will hold these same hostage "negotiations". You'll hate the next President that does it for new air quality standards or medicare for all. Guess it's just easier to dismiss the argument because I hate this awful President? Fair enough. Good luck!

I’m not in agreement with the shutdown. I said that back in Dec. I’m laying the blame where it belongs, at the feet of both parties. They’re both responsible for this and we’re equally responsible for voting them in.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I’m not in agreement with the shutdown. I said that back in Dec. I’m laying the blame where it belongs, at the feet of both parties. They’re both responsible for this and we’re equally responsible for voting them in.

Fair enough. I just disagree. It wasn't a priority for 2 years. The Senate voted 100-0 to keep the government open in December and then the WH and house pulled the rug out from under them. I think Congress bears some responsibility, but no where near as much as the WH. And certainly not enough responsibility to give the hostage taker his demands.

 

[dave]

I’m not in agreement with the shutdown. I said that back in Dec. I’m laying the blame where it belongs, at the feet of both parties. They’re both responsible for this and we’re equally responsible for voting them in.

That pretty much the same as me. Ive blamed everyone who could and should be working to end this.

 

[JWG66]

1. DACA is pretty narrowly defined, and someone coming in today isn't eligible for those protection. The new folks are incentivized by hope for better lives, but not DACA protection.

2-4. That's an immigration reform plan, not a budget plan. Why are Park Rangers not getting a paycheck over a bunch of things that should be in a policy bill, not a budget.

Totally agree. Again, just my opinion, but if Trump chooses to try that emergency tactic, he should up the ante to $25 billion and throw in a few Exec Orders on the broken laws on top of that. What the heck, its going to get taken to court anyway. This to me is about the next election and all these politicians make me sick.

They all (Nancy, Donald and Chucky) should all have to work border security for a year with out pay and live on the border with no walls. Screw em all cause they are not doing their jobs. In any event, the government employees should get paid and the politicians should set aside petty politics for the next election and fix some damn thing.

 

[atlkvb]

If we don't build the wall or pass new comprehensive immigration reforms could we at least go back to enforcing existing immigration laws and getting rid of the regulations that we use now as a substitute for them?

DACA is not a law, Sanctuary cities are not lawful, and catch-and-release is a joke that makes a mockery of whatever law we claim we are enforcing.?

 

[mule_eer]

Because we’re allowing our elected leaders on both sides to act like children. The Dems ran on “resist” and took the house. We’re getting what we voted for. This is our own fault. It’s not like we were blind to what Trump was and it’s not like we were blind to what a Dem majority in the House would be.

Agreed. You'd think that there would have been more push to finish this before the end of December and the new Congress though.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Agreed. You'd think that there would have been more push to finish this before the end of December and the new Congress though.

The INVASIONS are getting worse, obvi.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Agreed. You'd think that there would have been more push to finish this before the end of December and the new Congress though.

Politics. This is how you slow the liberal agenda. It’s basically the resistance to the resistance. At some point, the left is going to cave, and caving to Trump will cost Pelosi her speakership. This will kill her off.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Politics. This is how you slow the liberal agenda. It’s basically the resistance to the resistance. At some point, the left is going to cave, and caving to Trump will cost Pelosi her speakership. This will kill her off.

Honest question....do you think forcing Nancy out and caving to Trump forces the Democrats to the middle?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Honest question....do you think forcing Nancy out and caving to Trump forces the Democrats to the middle?

No.

 

[wvu2007]

Honest question....do you think forcing Nancy out and caving to Trump forces the Democrats to the middle?

Even further left but Nancy isn't going to save that from not happening even if she remains.

 

[boomerwv]

This idea democrats are going to cave idea is silly. Their stance is that they wont negotiate while the government is shutdown. Trump said hed shut it down over the wall and did. He could open it today with a word.

Giving him anything over this would be like giving a toddler a toy for crying and throwing a fit in wal mart. Do it once and you'll do it for years. The pressure is on Trump, not democrats.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

This idea democrats are going to cave idea is silly. Their stance is that they wont negotiate while the government is shutdown. Trump said hed shut it down over the wall and did. He could open it today with a word.

Giving him anything over this would be like giving a toddler a toy for crying and throwing a fit in wal mart. Do it once and you'll do it for years. The pressure is on Trump, not democrats.

Hahahaha, you guys think Trump is under pressure. Is it warm in your world? I might consider a visit to get out of this frozen tundra I’m in that’s called reality.

 

[TarHeelEer]

This idea democrats are going to cave idea is silly. Their stance is that they wont negotiate while the government is shutdown. Trump said hed shut it down over the wall and did. He could open it today with a word.

Giving him anything over this would be like giving a toddler a toy for crying and throwing a fit in wal mart. Do it once and you'll do it for years. The pressure is on Trump, not democrats.

I'm going to hazard a guess, once the fed courts start shutting down, and SNAP benefits start being impacted, Democrats will belly up to the bar. Heaven for bid if Trump isn't drug to court.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Hahahaha, you guys think Trump is under pressure. Is it warm in your world? I might consider a visit to get out of this frozen tundra I’m in that’s called reality.

He does be the one that goes on national tv every few days to change his stance. Don't know if it's pressure or stupidity or general Trumpness.

Edit: BTW - Trump is the only one that can cave and be unscathed by his base.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I'm going to hazard a guess, once the fed courts start shutting down, and SNAP benefits start being impacted, Democrats will belly up to the bar. Heaven for bid if Trump isn't drug to court.

Trump will go through the House and Senate, not the fed justice system. You dummy.