Cowboy RTC and the next quad

[osu2082]

Passivity is the biggest black eye and limiting factor for FS.

You take one of the greatest one on one competitions in the world and allow it to come down to the subjectivity of someone not competing. Just awful.

 

[vhsalum]

Passivity is the biggest black eye and limiting factor for FS.

You take one of the greatest one on one competitions in the world and allow it to come down to the subjectivity of someone not competing. Just awful.

You mean punishing competitors for inactivity?

Plus - they get 30 seconds to prove the ref wrong.

 

[Corby2]

Passivity is the biggest black eye and limiting factor for FS.

You take one of the greatest one on one competitions in the world and allow it to come down to the subjectivity of someone not competing. Just awful.

College will be going to a step out point and no headgear next summer it's sounding like and I can't wait

 

[osu2082]

You mean punishing competitors for inactivity?

Plus - they get 30 seconds to prove the ref wrong.

Allowing someone other that the two competitors to potentially dictate the outcome? Yes…

I’ve watched to many matches be decided by questionable or flat out awful passivity calls.

 

[osu2082]

College will be going to a step out point and no headgear next summer it's sounding like and I can't wait

Im torn on the step out. On one hand I like that it puts pressure on guys who work the edge of mat and try to flee but I do hate that it rewards guys who just simply try to push people out.

Thats not the type of offensive wrestling that we need to help grow the sport here in the US.

 

[vhsalum]

Allowing someone other that the two competitors to potentially dictate the outcome? Yes…

I’ve watched to many matches be decided by questionable or flat out awful passivity calls.

Oh please. That’s on the wrestlers. Score points. Do you remember the ball draw?

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

 

[chasepollard]

Oh please. That’s on the wrestlers. Score points. Do you remember the ball draw?

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

I forgot which match it was? I’m thinking Blaze vs. Iranian? It may have been Zane?

The ref kept saying, “back to center” and then put our guy on the clock? It was a severe WTF moment to me.

Officiating is a black eye for freestyle.

 

[Corby2]

I forgot which match it was? I’m thinking Blaze vs. Iranian? It may have been Zane?

The ref kept saying, “back to center” and then put our guy on the clock? It was a severe WTF moment to me.

Officiating is a black eye for freestyle.

It's just that most have folkstyle brain and don't understand passivity. Freestyle if you keep your butt to the center and control the ties you won't be put on the clock much. Now in 0-0 matches after 2 minutes it's mandatory someone goes on the clock . If it's 0-0 and one guy goes on the clock and the period ends 1-0 the other guy will be out on the clock in :45 if no scoring happens. You know how it's gonna go . In folkstyle not so much you can be 0-0 for 3 minutes and no stall warnings happen they stand around and do nothing. My opinion the NCAA ref is a black eye for allowing 3 minutes 0-0

 

[okokzach]

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

How is Dake being allowed to run around the mat an argument in favor of freestyle rules?

 

[vhsalum]

How is Dake being allowed to run around the mat an argument in favor of freestyle rules?

1. At least he was put on the clock. In folk, he wouldn’t have even warned until 7 seconds left

2. If you allow guys to run, they will. So saying “the refs shouldn’t get involved” is an absurd statement to make and literally denies all of human history.

 

[osu2082]

Oh please. That’s on the wrestlers. Score points. Do you remember the ball draw?

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

Sure, the ball drop was worse. Anytime you are allowing someone other than the competitors to dictate the outcome of a match, you are missing IMO.

I think it’s one of the reasons FS just doesn’t catch on here.

 

[Air_Thurman]

My biggest complaint with college wrestling right now is that there is so much subjectivity with reffing. TDs aren't clear, out of bounds stalling isn't clear, brutal replay system. Freestyle takes all of that and bumps it up 50%.

I like FS. I get why some like it better. I just hate the refs have even more control.

 

[vhsalum]

My biggest complaint with college wrestling right now is that there is so much subjectivity with reffing. TDs aren't clear, out of bounds stalling isn't clear, brutal replay system. Freestyle takes all of that and bumps it up 50%.

I like FS. I get why some like it better. I just hate the refs have even more control.

TD's are clear, out of bounds is clear, replay is significantly faster (depending on the official).

Freestyle does have an issue with the exposure, but I'll take it over guys just not wrestling. And the step out is significantly better than edge wrestling.

 

[osu2082]

My biggest complaint with college wrestling right now is that there is so much subjectivity with reffing. TDs aren't clear, out of bounds stalling isn't clear, brutal replay system. Freestyle takes all of that and bumps it up 50%.

I like FS. I get why some like it better. I just hate the refs have even more control.

Passivity and leg laces are both pretty silly to the average or new fan (which is the target of FS).

 

[vhsalum]

Passivity and leg laces are both pretty silly to the average or new fan (which is the target of FS).

While i would PREFER that "activity" be the call for passivity - it's a pretty easy indicator for everyone to see.

 

[alephpoke]

Passivity and leg laces are both pretty silly to the average or new fan (which is the target of FS).

I think passivity is fine, but you’re on the money about leg laces. For those not familiar with freestyle, exposure in general is such an arbitrary thing that has an out-sized amount of points awarded to it. Folkstyle just has much more intuitive goals for a combat sport, maybe with the exception of non-pinnable nearfall moves like cheap tilts.

This is from watching both folkstyle and freestyle matches with friends who don’t watch wrestling otherwise, and they get folkstyle much more easily.

 

[newguy123]

The same arguments crop up around every international tournament about ditching folkstyle for freestyle. Thing is it's not a 1-to-1. Folkstyle training gives our athletes certain advantages that freestylers don't have, and you just don't know how the broader wrestling fanbase would react in terms of viewership and support. Personally I think you'd lose a lot of fans at first and eventually recover, but it would take a bunch of years of outreach to get there and is it worthwhile to do so for a niche sport?

 

[vhsalum]

The same arguments crop up around every international tournament about ditching folkstyle for freestyle. Thing is it's not a 1-to-1. Folkstyle training gives our athletes certain advantages that freestylers don't have, and you just don't know how the broader wrestling fanbase would react in terms of viewership and support. Personally I think you'd lose a lot of fans at first and eventually recover, but it would take a bunch of years of outreach to get there and is it worthwhile to do so for a niche sport?

The only thing people care about is the name on the jersey. If folk moved to FS, it would be the same fans.

 

[Corby2]

TD's are clear, out of bounds is clear, replay is significantly faster (depending on the official).

Freestyle does have an issue with the exposure, but I'll take it over guys just not wrestling. And the step out is significantly better than edge wrestling.

After watching freestyle for 4 days and then turning on the Opens yesterday wow was it SLOW and it was annoying watching guys use the edge to avoid takedowns

 

[vhsalum]

After watching freestyle for 4 days and then turning on the Opens yesterday wow was it SLOW and it was annoying watching guys use the edge to avoid takedowns

There's no comparison in terms of action. And especially in America - FS would be an even better watch.

 

[osu2082]

There's no comparison in terms of action. And especially in America - FS would be an even better watch.

I think a blend between the two would be best.

Clean up the procedure for passivity calls. Remove leg laces and work on exposure and you have something.

Keep all that and you would see a lot of frustrated and confused casual fans (which is what wrestling needs more of).

 

[vhsalum]

I think a blend between the two would be best.

Clean up the procedure for passivity calls. Remove leg laces and work on exposure and you have something.

Keep all that and you would see a lot of frustrated and confused casual fans (which is what wrestling needs more of).

No need to remove laces. It doesn't happen that often. Also, it ain't that hard to defend (freakishly strong Spencer Lees are once in a generation)

Matches ending are exciting - especially in a team sport. I can promise you, you are going to complain if/when Jax hits a matches ending lace to give you the national title over PSU.

 

[BD07]

TD's are clear, out of bounds is clear, replay is significantly faster (depending on the official).

Freestyle does have an issue with the exposure, but I'll take it over guys just not wrestling. And the step out is significantly better than edge wrestling.

I watched most of team USA matches and a lot of the wrestling turned to pushing for step out points or jockeying for position when within 3 feet of out of bounds. I think edge wrestling is fun to watch to see if can get takedown/defend, but even if you don’t think that, the step out creates a lot less middle of mat wrestling because so much of it is just pushing for position. And the biggest thing is no mat wrestling. A sport that is sumo 1/4 of the time and when there is a takedown the primary defense is to lay flat in your belly until the ref stands you up is not as good as actual wrestling in all positions

 

[vhsalum]

I watched most of team USA matches and a lot of the wrestling turned to pushing for step out points or jockeying for position when within 3 feet of out of bounds. I think edge wrestling is fun to watch to see if can get takedown/defend, but even if you don’t think that, the step out creates a lot less middle of mat wrestling because so much of it is just pushing for position. And the biggest thing is no mat wrestling. A sport that is sumo 1/4 of the time and when there is a takedown the primary defense is to lay flat in your belly until the ref stands you up is not as good as actual wrestling in all positions

Not a bad take.. but let's all be honest - mat wrestling is A FRIGGING BORING.

You have your Jax's and Spencer's, but man that's about it. Riding sucks.

 

[newguy123]

Not a bad take.. but let's all be honest - mat wrestling is A FRIGGING BORING.

You have your Jax's and Spencer's, but man that's about it. Riding sucks.

Par terre is so much worse! Everyone uses the same three moves (belly out, gut wrench, leg lace) and if there's no turn within 5-10 seconds you get stood up and go back into the same ties you've been doing all match. Offense is more limited because you can't expose yourself, and everyone bails out of scrambles. It's boring. I mean... it's better than no wrestling. But the USA is pretty darn good at freestyle despite not specializing in it, so why abandon our sport for it?

 

[CrazyChuckCarbo]

Not a bad take.. but let's all be honest - mat wrestling is A FRIGGING BORING.

You have your Jax's and Spencer's, but man that's about it. Riding sucks.

Maybe you know this but does SLee still have knee issues? Did he have both ACLs repaired?

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

Maybe you know this but does SLee still have knee issues? Did he have both ACLs repaired?

He’s had like 4 blown ACL’s (both knees) and supposedly blew it again a few weeks before worlds

 

[vhsalum]

Par terre is so much worse! Everyone uses the same three moves (belly out, gut wrench, leg lace) and if there's no turn within 5-10 seconds you get stood up and go back into the same ties you've been doing all match. Offense is more limited because you can't expose yourself, and everyone bails out of scrambles. It's boring. I mean... it's better than no wrestling. But the USA is pretty darn good at freestyle despite not specializing in it, so why abandon our sport for it?

Exactly. you get a few seconds to turn, then you're BACK ON YOUR FEET.

None of this laying on top of each other

 

[Corby2]

He’s had like 4 blown ACL’s (both knees) and supposedly blew it again a few weeks before worlds

Happened in July actually and he was off the mat and on the airdyne since it happened

 

[newguy123]

Exactly. you get a few seconds to turn, then you're BACK ON YOUR FEET.

None of this laying on top of each other

It's fine that you prefer watching freestyle, many do, but I'd be real surprised if the broader fanbase and athlete pool supported getting rid of nearfall, pinning combinations, riding time, and scrambles. I think you'd lose a LOT of fans.

If there is a switch, hopefully the powers that be do a lot of outreach and engagement to make sure they don't hurt the sport and to teach people the new ruleset. There's a huge fanbase and athlete pool that aren't on message boards or subscribed to Flo.

 

[skylinepoke]

I have my reasons for not liking freestyle but the biggest reason is it takes mat wrestlers like Sergio and Jax out of their strengths. People around me last year were yelling for Sergio's opponent to shoot because we knew one of two things were going to occur. First, Sergio was going to some how turn that leg attack into a takedown for himself as Raney found out Sunday. Once Sergio got his takedown, there was a good chance that a cradle followed by a pin would show up.
It would be ashame to lose the excitement of mat wrestling being defeated by someone with a big butt who knows how to sprawl.

 

[OAMC99]

Oh Lordy, folkstyle is so much better than freestyle it's not even close. Mat wrestling is greatness. Riding someone into the mat is utter domiinance. Criteria win with the same score is BS. Floppy floppin part tear is ridiculous. 10-0 immediately done from spin cycle is stupid. The people who say freestyle is better are probably the same type of people who remind you that soccer is the most popular sport in the world...

 

[03ee]

Oh Lordy, folkstyle is so much better than freestyle it's not even close. Mat wrestling is greatness. Riding someone into the mat is utter domiinance. Criteria win with the same score is BS. Floppy floppin part tear is ridiculous. 10-0 immediately done from spin cycle is stupid. The people who say freestyle is better are probably the same type of people who remind you that soccer is the most popular sport in the world...

Was right there with you until you brought up soccer! Lol.

 

[vhsalum]

Oh Lordy, folkstyle is so much better than freestyle it's not even close. Mat wrestling is greatness. Riding someone into the mat is utter domiinance. Criteria win with the same score is BS. Floppy floppin part tear is ridiculous. 10-0 immediately done from spin cycle is stupid. The people who say freestyle is better are probably the same type of people who remind you that soccer is the most popular sport in the world...

 

[roboshock]

So, how are things going with the RT ?

 

[Old Number Nine]

I have no idea what the majority of wrestling fans around the US think as to which style (Folk/Free) although I'd really like to know.

Anyway, all I can say is that if they switch NCAA wrestling to Freestyle at the end of this year, that would be the end of my 48 years as a season ticket holder.

I'd more than likely watch the Cowboys online but I'm sure I would eventually get tired of it. Folkstyle is far from perfect and could use a number of rule-tweeks but Freestyle, for me, is usually like watching two big Folk 285ers in a 1-0 pushfest and the repeated leg lace is just stupid.

 

[vhsalum]

I have no idea what the majority of wrestling fans around the US think as to which style (Folk/Free) although I'd really like to know.

Anyway, all I can say is that if they switch NCAA wrestling to Freestyle at the end of this year, that would be the end of my 48 years as a season ticket holder.

I'd more than likely watch the Cowboys online but I'm sure I would eventually get tired of it. Folkstyle is far from perfect and could use a number of rule-tweeks but Freestyle, for me, is usually like watching two big Folk 285ers in a 1-0 pushfest and the repeated leg lace is just stupid.

This is an insane take. Did you even watch the world championships?

And a leg lace is just as exciting as a pin, cuz guess what? It's pretty easy to defend guys getting to it.

 

[TheJimReaper]

If the NCAA switched to freestyle I would for sure still watch it but definitely would not enjoy it as much.

 

[newguy123]

“a leg lace is as exciting as a pin” is something I never expected to read on a wrestling forum but here we are lol

Folks are free to prefer one style over the other, or think one style will lead to greater international success, but I hope anyone making decisions about *the entire country abandoning folkstyle wrestling* is real dang thoughtful.

Id still watch and root for my team but not as much because it’s just not as fun a style. It feels incomplete and limiting, they’re only doing half the amount of “stuff” on the mat. The benefit would be maybe better integration into the international scene which would be cool, but also not a given.

 

[Corby2]

Olejnik will be at the Farrell this weekend.
Richie Figueroa is at 57 as well I know he's not at the RTC but I found that interesting

2026 Bill Farrell Memorial Men's Freestyle Pre-Seeds

See the complete 2026 Bill Farrell Memorial men's freestyle pre-seeds, featuring Vito Arujau, Austin DeSanto, Quincy Monday and more.

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