Cowboy RTC and the next quad

[osu2082]

Passivity is the biggest black eye and limiting factor for FS.

You take one of the greatest one on one competitions in the world and allow it to come down to the subjectivity of someone not competing. Just awful.

 

[vhsalum]

Passivity is the biggest black eye and limiting factor for FS.

You take one of the greatest one on one competitions in the world and allow it to come down to the subjectivity of someone not competing. Just awful.

You mean punishing competitors for inactivity?

Plus - they get 30 seconds to prove the ref wrong.

 

[Corby2]

Passivity is the biggest black eye and limiting factor for FS.

You take one of the greatest one on one competitions in the world and allow it to come down to the subjectivity of someone not competing. Just awful.

College will be going to a step out point and no headgear next summer it's sounding like and I can't wait

 

[osu2082]

You mean punishing competitors for inactivity?

Plus - they get 30 seconds to prove the ref wrong.

Allowing someone other that the two competitors to potentially dictate the outcome? Yes…

I’ve watched to many matches be decided by questionable or flat out awful passivity calls.

 

[osu2082]

College will be going to a step out point and no headgear next summer it's sounding like and I can't wait

Im torn on the step out. On one hand I like that it puts pressure on guys who work the edge of mat and try to flee but I do hate that it rewards guys who just simply try to push people out.

Thats not the type of offensive wrestling that we need to help grow the sport here in the US.

 

[vhsalum]

Allowing someone other that the two competitors to potentially dictate the outcome? Yes…

I’ve watched to many matches be decided by questionable or flat out awful passivity calls.

Oh please. That’s on the wrestlers. Score points. Do you remember the ball draw?

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

 

[chasepollard]

Oh please. That’s on the wrestlers. Score points. Do you remember the ball draw?

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

I forgot which match it was? I’m thinking Blaze vs. Iranian? It may have been Zane?

The ref kept saying, “back to center” and then put our guy on the clock? It was a severe WTF moment to me.

Officiating is a black eye for freestyle.

 

[Corby2]

I forgot which match it was? I’m thinking Blaze vs. Iranian? It may have been Zane?

The ref kept saying, “back to center” and then put our guy on the clock? It was a severe WTF moment to me.

Officiating is a black eye for freestyle.

It's just that most have folkstyle brain and don't understand passivity. Freestyle if you keep your butt to the center and control the ties you won't be put on the clock much. Now in 0-0 matches after 2 minutes it's mandatory someone goes on the clock . If it's 0-0 and one guy goes on the clock and the period ends 1-0 the other guy will be out on the clock in :45 if no scoring happens. You know how it's gonna go . In folkstyle not so much you can be 0-0 for 3 minutes and no stall warnings happen they stand around and do nothing. My opinion the NCAA ref is a black eye for allowing 3 minutes 0-0

 

[okokzach]

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

How is Dake being allowed to run around the mat an argument in favor of freestyle rules?

 

[vhsalum]

How is Dake being allowed to run around the mat an argument in favor of freestyle rules?

1. At least he was put on the clock. In folk, he wouldn’t have even warned until 7 seconds left

2. If you allow guys to run, they will. So saying “the refs shouldn’t get involved” is an absurd statement to make and literally denies all of human history.

 

[osu2082]

Oh please. That’s on the wrestlers. Score points. Do you remember the ball draw?

Watch the final 2 minutes of dakes match. He should have been cautioned out. Yuck

Sure, the ball drop was worse. Anytime you are allowing someone other than the competitors to dictate the outcome of a match, you are missing IMO.

I think it’s one of the reasons FS just doesn’t catch on here.

 

[Air_Thurman]

My biggest complaint with college wrestling right now is that there is so much subjectivity with reffing. TDs aren't clear, out of bounds stalling isn't clear, brutal replay system. Freestyle takes all of that and bumps it up 50%.

I like FS. I get why some like it better. I just hate the refs have even more control.

 

[vhsalum]

My biggest complaint with college wrestling right now is that there is so much subjectivity with reffing. TDs aren't clear, out of bounds stalling isn't clear, brutal replay system. Freestyle takes all of that and bumps it up 50%.

I like FS. I get why some like it better. I just hate the refs have even more control.

TD's are clear, out of bounds is clear, replay is significantly faster (depending on the official).

Freestyle does have an issue with the exposure, but I'll take it over guys just not wrestling. And the step out is significantly better than edge wrestling.

 

[osu2082]

My biggest complaint with college wrestling right now is that there is so much subjectivity with reffing. TDs aren't clear, out of bounds stalling isn't clear, brutal replay system. Freestyle takes all of that and bumps it up 50%.

I like FS. I get why some like it better. I just hate the refs have even more control.

Passivity and leg laces are both pretty silly to the average or new fan (which is the target of FS).

 

[vhsalum]

Passivity and leg laces are both pretty silly to the average or new fan (which is the target of FS).

While i would PREFER that "activity" be the call for passivity - it's a pretty easy indicator for everyone to see.

 

[alephpoke]

Passivity and leg laces are both pretty silly to the average or new fan (which is the target of FS).

I think passivity is fine, but you’re on the money about leg laces. For those not familiar with freestyle, exposure in general is such an arbitrary thing that has an out-sized amount of points awarded to it. Folkstyle just has much more intuitive goals for a combat sport, maybe with the exception of non-pinnable nearfall moves like cheap tilts.

This is from watching both folkstyle and freestyle matches with friends who don’t watch wrestling otherwise, and they get folkstyle much more easily.

 

[newguy123]

The same arguments crop up around every international tournament about ditching folkstyle for freestyle. Thing is it's not a 1-to-1. Folkstyle training gives our athletes certain advantages that freestylers don't have, and you just don't know how the broader wrestling fanbase would react in terms of viewership and support. Personally I think you'd lose a lot of fans at first and eventually recover, but it would take a bunch of years of outreach to get there and is it worthwhile to do so for a niche sport?

 

[vhsalum]

The same arguments crop up around every international tournament about ditching folkstyle for freestyle. Thing is it's not a 1-to-1. Folkstyle training gives our athletes certain advantages that freestylers don't have, and you just don't know how the broader wrestling fanbase would react in terms of viewership and support. Personally I think you'd lose a lot of fans at first and eventually recover, but it would take a bunch of years of outreach to get there and is it worthwhile to do so for a niche sport?

The only thing people care about is the name on the jersey. If folk moved to FS, it would be the same fans.

 

[Corby2]

TD's are clear, out of bounds is clear, replay is significantly faster (depending on the official).

Freestyle does have an issue with the exposure, but I'll take it over guys just not wrestling. And the step out is significantly better than edge wrestling.

After watching freestyle for 4 days and then turning on the Opens yesterday wow was it SLOW and it was annoying watching guys use the edge to avoid takedowns

 

[vhsalum]

After watching freestyle for 4 days and then turning on the Opens yesterday wow was it SLOW and it was annoying watching guys use the edge to avoid takedowns

There's no comparison in terms of action. And especially in America - FS would be an even better watch.

 

[osu2082]

There's no comparison in terms of action. And especially in America - FS would be an even better watch.

I think a blend between the two would be best.

Clean up the procedure for passivity calls. Remove leg laces and work on exposure and you have something.

Keep all that and you would see a lot of frustrated and confused casual fans (which is what wrestling needs more of).

 

[vhsalum]

I think a blend between the two would be best.

Clean up the procedure for passivity calls. Remove leg laces and work on exposure and you have something.

Keep all that and you would see a lot of frustrated and confused casual fans (which is what wrestling needs more of).

No need to remove laces. It doesn't happen that often. Also, it ain't that hard to defend (freakishly strong Spencer Lees are once in a generation)

Matches ending are exciting - especially in a team sport. I can promise you, you are going to complain if/when Jax hits a matches ending lace to give you the national title over PSU.

 

[BD07]

TD's are clear, out of bounds is clear, replay is significantly faster (depending on the official).

Freestyle does have an issue with the exposure, but I'll take it over guys just not wrestling. And the step out is significantly better than edge wrestling.

I watched most of team USA matches and a lot of the wrestling turned to pushing for step out points or jockeying for position when within 3 feet of out of bounds. I think edge wrestling is fun to watch to see if can get takedown/defend, but even if you don’t think that, the step out creates a lot less middle of mat wrestling because so much of it is just pushing for position. And the biggest thing is no mat wrestling. A sport that is sumo 1/4 of the time and when there is a takedown the primary defense is to lay flat in your belly until the ref stands you up is not as good as actual wrestling in all positions

 

[vhsalum]

I watched most of team USA matches and a lot of the wrestling turned to pushing for step out points or jockeying for position when within 3 feet of out of bounds. I think edge wrestling is fun to watch to see if can get takedown/defend, but even if you don’t think that, the step out creates a lot less middle of mat wrestling because so much of it is just pushing for position. And the biggest thing is no mat wrestling. A sport that is sumo 1/4 of the time and when there is a takedown the primary defense is to lay flat in your belly until the ref stands you up is not as good as actual wrestling in all positions

Not a bad take.. but let's all be honest - mat wrestling is A FRIGGING BORING.

You have your Jax's and Spencer's, but man that's about it. Riding sucks.

 

[newguy123]

Not a bad take.. but let's all be honest - mat wrestling is A FRIGGING BORING.

You have your Jax's and Spencer's, but man that's about it. Riding sucks.

Par terre is so much worse! Everyone uses the same three moves (belly out, gut wrench, leg lace) and if there's no turn within 5-10 seconds you get stood up and go back into the same ties you've been doing all match. Offense is more limited because you can't expose yourself, and everyone bails out of scrambles. It's boring. I mean... it's better than no wrestling. But the USA is pretty darn good at freestyle despite not specializing in it, so why abandon our sport for it?

 

[CrazyChuckCarbo]

Not a bad take.. but let's all be honest - mat wrestling is A FRIGGING BORING.

You have your Jax's and Spencer's, but man that's about it. Riding sucks.

Maybe you know this but does SLee still have knee issues? Did he have both ACLs repaired?