Yeah, I wandered over here when the Off-Topic board went premium. I’m still figuring out who’s who.
***CC22 and the Fever mega thread***
- Thread starter LetsGoHawks83
- Start date
Hey hey Cathy has called AT to make sure she’s okay. We can all sleep better tonight.
Pretty good conversation about CC and the fallout from the AT incident at the 42 minute mark.
Right wing forces, right wing grifters, and YouTube Creators lol. GMAFB.
Here's just one of the problems outside of Engelbert, the officials, and the W at-large: Starts with an A and ends with a T.
Not sure how exactly to frame this thought, so maybe one of you can state it better than me. But it seems like the WNBA is a league more about its players than its audience. I don’t know if that’s a product of current leadership, the league’s history, or what, but they do not seem to understand that the players are employees whose job is to provide a product, which is fair and enjoyable basketball games
A few things:
- Gen Z vocal fry..................never really cared about it, but for whatever reason it jumped out within the first 20 seconds of hearing the gal talk. Food for thought.
- they both bring up some points and try to give labels and names to a lot of the different angles surrounding CC vs the league vs the anti-CC fans and the social media discourse etc etc. But there were also times where they were creating more questions as well
- for example, the guy talks about the WNBA wanting to market towards straight women and telling a young Sue Bird to act more feminine and straight, and this flies in the face of the current online narrative of the WNBA that they cater more towards open sexuality and multicultural identities, particularly towards the black demographic being that they make up the highest percentage of players. That just seemed like a conflicting take there.
- I also know both of them are wrong when first the guy says the league is positioning Caitlin in a certain way (positioning her?.........you mean backtracking so as to not offend the rest of the players, primarily the black demographic because they got jealous and didn't want her taking up all the promotional material, which is why you see other players now being featured more when promoting the Fever games. It's the "Angel Reese Me Too" deal, and the league is absolutely backpedaling on their promotion of Caitlin Clark, exclusively because of the player internal backlash....so I wouldn't say the league is positioning her as well as they could be right now at the very damn least, let alone talking about how they have positioned her, in whatever way the podcaster was referring to.......
Then, ho boy, I had my suspicions, and the female guest confirmed them asking if it wasn't the league positioning Caitlin in a certain way, but right wing ideologists (and right wing grifters) doing so and I just immediately f***ing rolled my eyes.
- I will say though, they're spot on in bringing up the fact that the WNBA is wholly reactionary. They sit on their hands, don't address anything, let problems become bigger problems and ultimately you're left with one of two options. Either the organization is run by sheer incompetence......or it's intentional because they're at a point after years of a failing brand that was kept afloat by the NBA, they simply welcome the chaos going on now because it's free publicity, and they just want any kind of news to keep them relevant and in the spotlight.
(Oh and yes both things can be true. They can knowingly and willfully stay silent on their issues because they want the attention, while also being inept at optimally running a professional sports league in this country)
- I also agree, and have said this before as have many others, that the league had plenty of time to prepare for Caitlin's arrival and how to manage it and get out in front of any potential discourse (including the stuff that was already going on during her senior year at Iowa) or resentment from the "old guard" of WNBA players.........and the league did nothing. They just wanted the publicity.
- The one guy asked the question if this will ultimately lead to Caitlin being run out of the league, however that happens. The female guest was hesitant to go that far, but they both agreed that it's hard to solve a problem..............if you don't f***ing acknowledge that there's a problem.
- And that leads me to my final point about vehemently disagreeing with anyone who utters the phrase "you can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle", and if that's truly the case, then why in the ACTUAL F**K.............are we wasting so much time on trying to help people with "addictions" and "mental health issues"?
It's the same goddam concept.
And that applies to the thoughts they had about the league, and in particular the players being too dialed in to social media. Motherf***er I am done with the "they said mean things on social media" crutch. Get the f*** over it, learn how to better handle it, or get the f*** off. It truly is not that hard. I learned this back in the era when f***ing Facebook was still in its infancy.
Learn how to deal with bullies. Learn how to discern what is legitimate and what is bullsh**. If you can't do that, get the f*** off. Bury your head further in the sand and block anything that might be triggering to you and only view what you want to see that makes you feel good about yourself.
But don't f***ing sit here and tell me that negativity on social media can't be avoided by these fragile players, and that they allegedly saw one mean or racist or homophobic etc etc etc tweet or post, and that somehow turns into "constant tweets and posts and threats" even though we don't get to see these receipts........so that somehow gives them the right to cry victim and blame Caitlin Clark metaphorically (and in some cases literally) punching her while she's on the ground while saying to her "YOUR RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST, IST IST IST ETC FANS MADE ME DO THIS!!! LOOK WHAT THEY MADE ME DO!!!!"
I'm done with that, and I'm tired of that being a crutch/excuse for the way these players and the fans that want to see Caitlin Clark fail are acting.
It's outright bullsh** that you "can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle" in regards to being triggered by social f***ing media, and I'm not apologizing for that, @WDSMHawk
P.S. this is also why you absolutely can go back on the whole NIL and broken conference realignment situation too.
If you don't believe so, then go ahead and tell anyone you know that's trying to recover from an "addiction" that they'll never do it, either. It's the same goddam difference.
Thanks for playing.
#tl;dr
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Right wing forces, right wing grifters, and YouTube Creators lol. GMAFB.
Here's just one of the problems outside of Engelbert, the officials, and the W at-large: Starts with an A and ends with a T.
"I didn't know it happened."
The fact that a league and its players are biased against one player because she brings in more fans than they’ve ever had doesn’t need to be made into more. That would be like hating a new chef who causes a restaurant to have lines out the door every night.
They’re two games away from being out of the playoffs and they can’t beat a good team, so it’s not working. The coach may need to try something different…anything at this point.
Or Clark is out for the rest of the season due to an injury. It happened last year, so who knows.
You heard what Ben said. For example, if a crook is caught committing a crime on camera, then said crook goes to Sing-Sing. Somebody got caught on camera lol."I didn't know it happened."
Right wing forces, right wing grifters, and YouTube Creators lol. GMAFB.
Here's just one of the problems outside of Engelbert, the officials, and the W at-large: Starts with an A and ends with a T.
I'm not going to derail the thread by getting political but I'll say that if you don't believe certain outlets and online figures with a particular ideology have used CC, at no fault of her own, as a way to attack other players or the WNBA as a whole then you're not living in reality.
Both sides have used Clark as a way to push their agenda.
I think there are a few different reasons people compete hard vs CC.
But I don't see where it is a coordinated effort.
And have no idea what you're referring to when calling the league biased vs CC
That is indeed true, but the lady lost a good deal of credibility for bringing politics into the discussion. I mean, bringing up George Floyd, among the other examples I raised? Most people were appalled at that incident, including myself. She was incorrect about the league not acknowledging there is a problem. They know there are many problems. They would have to be either blind or stupid to not acknowledge the problems. The real problem is that the League hasn't done so publicly, or by strictly enforcing player behavior on an equitable level, not to mention the inept officiating.
But this is the inherent problem and you’ve fallen for it. You’ve given Twitter an authority it doesn’t deserve nor is it representative.,I’ve lived in Indy. I’ve been to Fever games. I’ve followed CC at Iowa. Once you lazily permit Twitter to become a “voice” then you’ve misrepresented the whole narrative. Those who live on Twitter will always claim some sort of sanctimonious higher ground.
CC is not the pawn in this equation. It’s a league that has other priorities.
Same response as I gave to @Ludd concerning agendas.
That is indeed true, but the lady lost a good deal of credibility for bringing politics into the discussion. I mean, bringing up George Floyd, among the other examples I raised? Most people were appalled at that incident, including myself. She was incorrect about the league not acknowledging there is a problem. They know there are many problems. They would have to be either blind or stupid to not acknowledge the problems. The real problem is that the League hasn't done so publicly, or by strictly enforcing player behavior on an equitable level, not to mention the inept officiating.
I don’t have Twitter, or InstaGram or Facebook, so I haven’t fallen for anything.
Then I'll never know what it is you're referring to.
Certainly something concrete must have happened to lead you to say such a thing
You can see it with your own eyes, eyes. How is a one game suspension justified in AT's case? She's shown a repetitive behavior of cheap shotting opponents. I know the League standard is a one game suspension and a 1K fine, but AT's behavior should get special scrutiny based on her past.
Another example is how Clark is targeted (As Cunningham has opined), and the lack of calls by officials for obvious violations a good deal of the time.
How exactly are "some" using cc to attack other players or the wnba. This is ludicrous talk. The wnba and most of the players are woke as woke can be. That's the problem
A few things:
- Gen Z vocal fry..................never really cared about it, but for whatever reason it jumped out within the first 20 seconds of hearing the gal talk. Food for thought.
- they both bring up some points and try to give labels and names to a lot of the different angles surrounding CC vs the league vs the anti-CC fans and the social media discourse etc etc. But there were also times where they were creating more questions as well
- for example, the guy talks about the WNBA wanting to market towards straight women and telling a young Sue Bird to act more feminine and straight, and this flies in the face of the current online narrative of the WNBA that they cater more towards open sexuality and multicultural identities, particularly towards the black demographic being that they make up the highest percentage of players. That just seemed like a conflicting take there.
- I also know both of them are wrong when first the guy says the league is positioning Caitlin in a certain way (positioning her?.........you mean backtracking so as to not offend the rest of the players, primarily the black demographic because they got jealous and didn't want her taking up all the promotional material, which is why you see other players now being featured more when promoting the Fever games. It's the "Angel Reese Me Too" deal, and the league is absolutely backpedaling on their promotion of Caitlin Clark, exclusively because of the player internal backlash....so I wouldn't say the league is positioning her as well as they could be right now at the very damn least, let alone talking about how they have positioned her, in whatever way the podcaster was referring to.......
Then, ho boy, I had my suspicions, and the female guest confirmed them asking if it wasn't the league positioning Caitlin in a certain way, but right wing ideologists (and right wing grifters) doing so and I just immediately f***ing rolled my eyes.
- I will say though, they're spot on in bringing up the fact that the WNBA is wholly reactionary. They sit on their hands, don't address anything, let problems become bigger problems and ultimately you're left with one of two options. Either the organization is run by sheer incompetence......or it's intentional because they're at a point after years of a failing brand that was kept afloat by the NBA, they simply welcome the chaos going on now because it's free publicity, and they just want any kind of news to keep them relevant and in the spotlight.
(Oh and yes both things can be true. They can knowingly and willfully stay silent on their issues because they want the attention, while also being inept at optimally running a professional sports league in this country)
- I also agree, and have said this before as have many others, that the league had plenty of time to prepare for Caitlin's arrival and how to manage it and get out in front of any potential discourse (including the stuff that was already going on during her senior year at Iowa) or resentment from the "old guard" of WNBA players.........and the league did nothing. They just wanted the publicity.
- The one guy asked the question if this will ultimately lead to Caitlin being run out of the league, however that happens. The female guest was hesitant to go that far, but they both agreed that it's hard to solve a problem..............if you don't f***ing acknowledge that there's a problem.
- And that leads me to my final point about vehemently disagreeing with anyone who utters the phrase "you can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle", and if that's truly the case, then why in the ACTUAL F**K.............are we wasting so much time on trying to help people with "addictions" and "mental health issues"?
It's the same goddam concept.
And that applies to the thoughts they had about the league, and in particular the players being too dialed in to social media. Motherf***er I am done with the "they said mean things on social media" crutch. Get the f*** over it, learn how to better handle it, or get the f*** off. It truly is not that hard. I learned this back in the era when f***ing Facebook was still in its infancy.
Learn how to deal with bullies. Learn how to discern what is legitimate and what is bullsh**. If you can't do that, get the f*** off. Bury your head further in the sand and block anything that might be triggering to you and only view what you want to see that makes you feel good about yourself.
But don't f***ing sit here and tell me that negativity on social media can't be avoided by these fragile players, and that they allegedly saw one mean or racist or homophobic etc etc etc tweet or post, and that somehow turns into "constant tweets and posts and threats" even though we don't get to see these receipts........so that somehow gives them the right to cry victim and blame Caitlin Clark metaphorically (and in some cases literally) punching her while she's on the ground while saying to her "YOUR RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST, IST IST IST ETC FANS MADE ME DO THIS!!! LOOK WHAT THEY MADE ME DO!!!!"
I'm done with that, and I'm tired of that being a crutch/excuse for the way these players and the fans that want to see Caitlin Clark fail are acting.
It's outright bullsh** that you "can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle" in regards to being triggered by social f***ing media, and I'm not apologizing for that, @WDSMHawk
P.S. this is also why you absolutely can go back on the whole NIL and broken conference realignment situation too.
If you don't believe so, then go ahead and tell anyone you know that's trying to recover from an "addiction" that they'll never do it, either. It's the same goddam difference.
Thanks for playing.
I'm not going to respond to all of your points because shockingly I agree with some
....but I'm going to respond to all few.As for the marketing point the guy made. I believe he was highlighting the disconnect between the players and the league office. While the league was touting it's diversity it was also using the little spotlight it had at the time to push unproven/lesser players because of their "look" over more accomplished/deserving players (Sabrina over A'ja) being the latest example. And as he points out these feelings unfairly contributed to some of the backlash CC received from the old guard when she first entered the league, as they assumed she would be the next "Great White Hope" except she wasn't next "G.W.H", she actually had the game to back it up.
On the social media aspect I've got mixed feelings. I think the people who are pretending that Caitlin has a magical "end racism and don't say mean things online" button that she's refusing to press everytime one of these controversies happen is being obtuse. As she's spoken on this many times now and it hasn't worked yet.
I also think the "learn to deal with it or log off" stance you seem to be taking is a little too simplistic as well. Like it or not everyone is going to have some online presence so I don't believe the "just log off" option is practical. And with as much vile and threatening **** that gets posted to some of these players I'm not going to blame them for reacting to it.
I don't think the WNBA has that magic button either but I think they need to find a way either through training the players, or if necessary working with law enforcement to address the most serious messages without amplifying the idiots who send them. As that will only lead to more idiots doing it in the future.
I think a one game suspension was appropriate. Certainly, nothing to raise a big deal about.
Whether AT has a history or not is an entirely different matter. And if she were punished more severely, based on that history, it would have nothing to do CC.
And the refs are bad, period. To suggest that they are officiating with an anti-CC bias is ridiculous, and only makes her look bad
There were "memes" (if you can even call them that) going around on Twitter where people where using the AT/CC photo to make light of what happened to George Floyd.
I didn't know about that. I don't use social media. At my age, this site keeps me plenty busy. It's a rotten shame that people actually do stuff like that, but unfortunately, these days are getting increasingly sinister.
#1: I think a one game suspension was appropriate. Certainly, nothing to raise a big deal about. Disagree.
#2: Whether AT has a history or not is an entirely different matter. And if she were punished more severely, based on that history, it would have nothing to do CC. Disagree.
#3: And the refs are bad, period. !00% Agree.
1. Not severe enough, based on what? Anything other than AT's history?#1: I think a one game suspension was appropriate. Certainly, nothing to raise a big deal about. Disagree.
#2: Whether AT has a history or not is an entirely different matter. And if she were punished more severely, based on that history, it would have nothing to do CC. Disagree.
#3: And the refs are bad, period. !00% Agree.
2. What does AT's history have to do with CC?
1. Not severe enough, based on what? Anything other than AT's history? Nope. History alone demands more severe punishment.
2. What does AT's history have to do with CC? By a knee to the groin and fist to the throat/neck. Adds to AT's resume'.
Are we having fun?
I'd like to think your not that ignorant, yet you continue to post things that make it pretty obvious.....
1. Ok, well then I'm not sure what you disagree with. Because I was referring to what was appropriate punishment for the specific incident.1. Not severe enough, based on what? Anything other than AT's history? Nope. History alone demands more severe punishment.
2. What does AT's history have to do with CC? By a knee to the groin and fist to the throat/neck. Adds to AT's resume'.
Are we having fun?
2. Also have no idea what you disagree with here.
No, it's not fun. You've said nothing different than what I first replied to
Again the ignorance. It has nothing to do with Clark. It has to do with Thomas having a history of dangerous and many would say intentionally trying to harm players. And yes the league should have an interest in that......
The point obviously. Thomas is a dangerous player. There have been numerous instances of her behavior before last Monday and Wednesday night. This needs to be addressed by the league, and it has nothing to do with Clark.
#1. 10 game suspension. 10K Fine.
#2. Refer to post #8351 #2.
Sorry you're not having fun.
I'm sure the league has such an interest.
I'm not the commissioner, I don't have AT's rapsheet in front of me. And I don't know what disciplinary measures are/are not viable within their CBA.
But many have somehow made this into a thing where CC isn't being properly protected by the refs/league. A punishment based on AT's history would have nothing to do with CC