BLUE LOT DRINKING TICKET

[FanuSanu52]

I got caught underage drinking at PNC once. Cop made us walk around and give the beer away to people who looked over 21 (didn't actually card anyone). No parents, just us underage college kids. No ticket, just a warning that if he caught us again, he'd actually put himself through the paperwork headache of official action - don't remember if a ticket or arrest was at the end of that tunnel.

Seemed like a fair way of going about it. On the other hand, once they were gone, we collected our beer back from the folks they made us give it to and got hammered anyway. Just hid better that time.

 

[ru66]

yeah--RU needs to flex its muscle to allow/facilitate underage drinking--that will go over big with the politically correct--give me a break--and by the way there are more drunk tail gaters in the stands than we need but hey I gave up drinking 20 years ago--coming from a family of cops ,the stand up ones would pour out that drink rather than ticket

 

[sct1111]

yeah--RU needs to flex its muscle to allow/facilitate underage drinking--that will go over big with the politically correct--give me a break--and by the way there are more drunk tail gaters in the stands than we need but hey I gave up drinking 20 years ago--coming from a family of cops ,the stand up ones would pour out that drink rather than ticket

There's a healthy medium. These sherrifs officers should not be giving tickets to 20 year olds having a beer with their families, nor to 19 year olds playing Cornhole with their friends. Give the tickets to those disturbing the peace, being loud and rowdy. They needs to use discretion instead of being dicks or trying to fill a quota.

 

[Piscataway_rivals]

In any case,
The age-21 restriction is not really NJ's fault. Federal law prohibits states from receiving important highway funding unless the state prohibits drinking by those under age 21.

Maybe we should revert to being a limited power Federal republic where our Commissars don’t overtax just to be able to coercively redistribute it.

 

[RC1978]

I just sent an email to Sarah and Pat and also linked this thread. Please send emails to them with these photos if you have them!

 

[Knightmoves]

I just sent an email to Sarah and Pat and also linked this thread. Please send emails to them with these photos if you have them!

What exactly do you expect Hobbs and Sarah to do about this ?

 

[Retired711]

I don't teach law, but I would take the time to argue with a couple of these points. For one thing, I think there's a solid 4A issue to be argued with respect to cops just assuming the contents of a solo cup. I'd love to see someone tell them, when asked, that it's non-alcoholic beer and make them prove otherwise.

For another, I don't believe that Rutgers would be on the hook for "a big damage award" in the event of someone getting into an accident on the way home. Rutgers isn't serving the alcohol. They are not, in any way, enabling unlawful behavior. If anything, the massive police presence puts them at greater risk because it's setting the expectation that the school is obligated to control illicit behavior.

As others have said today, and as I have said on previous Sundays, every other major school in the country is able to manage this situation without calling in the Gestapo. This is just another example of Rutgers being Rutgers - well-intentioned, but utterly inept.

One thing you're right about: Rutgers is totally inept, and I'm not just talking about the athletic display that Rutgers put on yesterday. I don't think there's a fourth amendment issue at all. If you see a minor holding what could be beer, you've got enough cause to ask for the cup to be handed over. And it is easy to tell whether an item is alcoholic or not; you smell it. In any case, the mother didn't dispute that the substance was beer; she just tried to argue that it was OK to use alcohol in one's parents' presence, and unfortunately American law does not recognize such an exception. You're right that Rutgers is not serving the alcohol, but it would be subject to liability if a minor got hurt (or hurt someone) and the plaintiff's lawyer learned that Rutgers was discouraging police from enforcing the law. I don't know what the situation is elsewhere, but it may be that cops elsewhere have more sense than this idiot out to fill a ticketbook and to show that he is oh-so-vigilant about enforcing the law. Please understand that my point is not that the cop is right, but that RU is limited in what it can do about this sort of thing.

 

[Retired711]

In NJ, it is legal for minors to consume alcohol under parental supervision at home.

I wonder if a good lawyer could fight this ticket based on the definition of "home". I don’t know the answer. Does home mean only inside a physical house, or does it include the yard? What about an RV? Or the yard of an RV? Or a campsite? Does a tailgate area count as a campsite?

Certainly if the parent were serving a minor in a restaurant or other licensed facility, that would be illegal. But the tailgate lots aren't a licensed facility.

It would be interested to see a good lawyer challenge this case.

I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that the parking lot of a football stadium is home.

 

[Retired711]

Maybe we should revert to being a limited power Federal republic where our Commissars don’t overtax just to be able to coercively redistribute it.

For better or worse, the Supreme Court has generally held that it's OK for the federal government to bribe the states by saying, "we'll give you money if you do X." The only exception was the Obamacare case in which the Court held that it was overly coercive for the federal government to deny all medicaid funding if a state refused to expand its medicaid program in the ways called for in the Affordable Care Act, and I would be surprised if the Court extended that precedent very far. The Supreme Court specifically upheld the "age-21 drinking or no highway funds" statute.

May I add that if we really had a limited power republic, then it might be that the Feds couldn't give out any highway aid at all. Remember that in the early 19th century, it was thought unconstitutional for the federal government to pay for internal improvements.

 

[motorb54]

How about Rutgers no longer employ these asshats from the MCSD.
No reason for this nonsense.
And Rutgers telling these rent a cops to justify their employment by giving more tickets is ridiculous.
How does that help Rutgers? RU doesn't get the money.
RU loses money every time they write a ticket in situations like this.
I don't doubt Mrs. Screw was told that, but it doesn't pass the smell test

 

[newell138]

Be smart keep an eye open and you have no problems. I have been letting my 20 year old have a few beers at games the last 2 years but I make sure if she is drinking she is always standing by me and we are always on the look for cops. If we see one she hands me the cup. Unfortunately it’s just the way it is and I doubt it’s gping to change. They use it as a revenue maker. It’s not just NJ either I recall people at PSU warning us to be careful as the cos will ticket underage drinking too. Didn’t see it but a few folks warned us

 

[RC1978]

What exactly do you expect Hobbs and Sarah to do about this ?

If I owned a business and I hired the people that worked there and they harassed my customers I would have the ability to do something about it.

 

[sct1111]

How about Rutgers no longer employ these asshats from the MCSD.
No reason for this nonsense.
And Rutgers telling these rent a cops to justify their employment by giving more tickets is ridiculous.
How does that help Rutgers? RU doesn't get the money.
RU loses money every time they write a ticket in situations like this.
I don't doubt Mrs. Screw was told that, but it doesn't pass the smell test

Exactly. Don't use the MCSD. Doesn't Rutgers already have their own police force? Do you know how much in overtime the sherrifs officers make to walk around football tailgates handing out underage drinking tickets? It's absurd. As NJ citizens our taxes pay these clowns double to harrass football fans.

 

[NJbound]

why do you think the Alley won't be reopened? If you think underage drinking is fine then I hope nobody ever in your family gets killed by a underage drunk driver. Piss off. If you think underage drinking is okay then you're one of the many stupid idiots in our society

You obviously don’t understand the concept of discretion. It’s proven that excessive speed is a factor in traffic fatalities. If your local police stop you for going over the speed limit, even by a few MPH, they can ticket you. Most, however, will use DISCRETION when deciding whether to give a ticket. At our tailgate yesterday, one of our friends had three of their children there, all were home for the holiday, and all go to out of state schools. The kids (23, 22 and 20) came and left with their parents. Can you believe that they let the 20 year old drink as well!! A college student, who like all colllege students, drink when they’re away at school. But god forbid they have a beer with their family, under a controlled environment, while not driving. You sir, are the stupid idiot, to compare this to an underage drunk driver.

 

[RUhasarrived]

I never saw a cop in the silver lot in the three years I've been there.

What I did see was a broken side mirror on my car,costing me $175.I'm lucky that the 1998 model replacement was still available.

 

[RUich]

Why can't the cops just give them a warning and walk on? It's one thing to do this with a drunk and another to do it with someone in this situation.

 

[Knightmoves]

If I owned a business and I hired the people that worked there and they harassed my customers I would have the ability to do something about it.

Again, the question is what you expect Hobbs to do about it ?

Not interested in hypothetical if/then statements that don’t address what happened yesterday.

 

[knight90]

If you think this isn't a problem and agree with them giving out these ridiculously over expensive tickets then don't ever complain about student attendance.

 

[mildone_rivals]

One correction - we were in the 2nd row of the yellow lot yesterday from 10:30 AM. Didn't see a single cop all day - not one.

Only cop I saw all day in the Yellow was the one directing traffic at the entrance to the lot. Very light police presence in Yellow all season, from what I could tell.

 

[mildone_rivals]

While I agree with your point, she was breaking the law. The family has to realize this.

If it was a county cop or NB cop, not much RU could do, IMO.

Sure there is. RU can dis-invite the cop in question from working further games. It's not much, but if there's only one or two overzealous jerks patrolling, and RU gets rid of them, RU stands to benefit.

No reason at all for that cop to hassle that family. Law or no law.

 

[Retired711]

Again, the question is what you expect Hobbs to do about it ?

Not interested in hypothetical if/then statements that don’t address what happened yesterday.

The problem is that RU has to hire someone for security, and the county police are the logical ones to do it. And even if we had someone else do it, the county police would still be able to come in and follow their policies.

 

[Retired711]

Sure there is. RU can dis-invite the cop in question from working further games. It's not much, but if there's only one or two overzealous jerks patrolling, and RU gets rid of them, RU stands to benefit.

No reason at all for that cop to hassle that family. Law or no law.

Unfortunately, we aren't inviting the cops; they could come on even if we didn't invite them.

 

[RUPete]

I had a conversation yesterday with 2 of the MSCSD cops. One is the ticket writer, who fills his ticket book out before he leaves home except for the name of the drinker, and the other, his partner who doesn't even bring his ticket book. The non ticket writer told me that RUtgers PD told them in their pre meeting that they " need to start writing tickets to justify them being there".

Now we get to the heart of the issue- precious OT.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Unfortunately, we aren't inviting the cops; they could come on even if we didn't invite them.

Because it's a public school? Or because it's public property?

Aren't all these cops getting paid by the university, perhaps indirectly? If so, that gives RU the leverage. And RU can surely have a word with the MCSD about the one guy who's hassling people too zealously, no?

 

[RU4Real]

The problem is that RU has to hire someone for security, and the county police are the logical ones to do it. And even if we had someone else do it, the county police would still be able to come in and follow their policies.

Actually, they're not.

The Middlesex Co. Sheriff's Office does not have a law enforcement mandate in the county. Their job functions are all court-related, which includes providing investigative manpower for the county prosecutor's office as well as the serving of warrants in addition to providing bailiff / security services at the courthouse. In other words, patrolling a jurisdiction and issuing summonses is NOT part of their normal job description. It's for this very reason that I've always said they're precisely the wrong agency for their Saturday overtime gig at HPSS.

 

[Knightmoves]

Because it's a public school? Or because it's public property?

Aren't all these cops getting paid by the university, perhaps indirectly? If so, that gives RU the leverage. And RU can surely have a word with the MCSD about the one guy who's hassling people too zealously, no?

My understanding is that the stadium and surrounding area are in Piscataway. Therefore Piscataway police have responsibility there. No reason for RU to try to fight that.

 

[RU4Real]

My understanding is that the stadium and surrounding area are in Piscataway. Therefore Piscataway police have responsibility there. No reason for RU to try to fight that.

The Piscataway campus is state property. Yes, it's in Piscataway. No, Piscataway PD does NOT have routine jurisdiction on either of the P'way campuses.

 

[Retired711]

Actually, they're not.

The Middlesex Co. Sheriff's Office does not have a law enforcement mandate in the county. Their job functions are all court-related, which includes providing investigative manpower for the county prosecutor's office as well as the serving of warrants in addition to providing bailiff / security services at the courthouse. In other words, patrolling a jurisdiction and issuing summonses is NOT part of their normal job description. It's for this very reason that I've always said they're precisely the wrong agency for their Saturday overtime gig at HPSS.

Who else could Rutgers University hire? After all, we do need a security presence for game-day and my guess would be that the normal police departments don't have the personpower to help in large numbers.

 

[mildone_rivals]

The Piscataway campus is state property. Yes, it's in Piscataway. No, Piscataway PD does NOT have routine jurisdiction on either of the P'way campuses.

So I'm back to thinking that if RU works the problem, they can get the one jerk from MCSD disinvited from participating. They can't claim it's because of giving tickets for underage drinking. But they can claim they've had too many complaints about him.

 

[Retired711]

The Piscataway campus is state property. Yes, it's in Piscataway. No, Piscataway PD does NOT have routine jurisdiction on either of the P'way campuses.

And anyway it's hard to believe that the Piscataway police have the bodies to simultaneously patrol the town and provide security for football games. What is needed are surplus cops, and my guess is that the marshalls are the best source, not that that's saying much.

 

[78CollegeAve]

So, let me understand this. The cops are the bad guys for enforcing the law? And the mother is a saint for drinking with her underage daughter? And no high achieving, h.s. senior will ever apply to a college where the police, you know, police underaged public drinking? And Rutgers is the only school where police enforce the drinking laws at a tailgate?

I’m trying to connect the dots for the OP’s outrage and 3 pages of comments. Thanks.

 

[mildone_rivals]

My understanding is that the stadium and surrounding area are in Piscataway. Therefore Piscataway police have responsibility there. No reason for RU to try to fight that.

I never suggested that RU try to fight having the Piscataway PD there. Or even the MCSD. Just the one guy from MCSD causing all the problems for everyone.

 

[Retired711]

I never suggested that RU try to fight having the Piscataway PD there. Or even the MCSD. Just the one guy from MCSD causing all the problems for everyone.

This one guy was the problem for the daughter and mom, but is he responsible for "all the problems for everyone?"

 

[Knight Shift]

So, let me understand this. The cops are the bad guys for enforcing the law? And the mother is a saint for drinking with her underage daughter? And no high achieving, h.s. senior will ever apply to a college where the police, you know, police underaged public drinking? And Rutgers is the only school where police enforce the drinking laws at a tailgate?

I’m trying to connect the dots for the OP’s outrage and 3 pages of comments. Thanks.

Here's an idea. Don't let your under 21 kid drink in public while you are present.

 

[FanuSanu52]

The outrage!

Stfu, Knight Sht.

 

[Scarlet4ever]

My understanding is that the stadium and surrounding area are in Piscataway. Therefore Piscataway police have responsibility there. No reason for RU to try to fight that.

It's my understanding that RU is paying these guys to watch the lots. Stop paying. That simple. If MCSO wants to pay these guys to harass a 20 year old girl drinking a beer with her family so be it. RU shouldn't be paying for this sort of harassment.

 

[ElmiraExpress]

So, let me understand this. The cops are the bad guys for enforcing the law? And the mother is a saint for drinking with her underage daughter? And no high achieving, h.s. senior will ever apply to a college where the police, you know, police underaged public drinking? And Rutgers is the only school where police enforce the drinking laws at a tailgate?

I’m trying to connect the dots for the OP’s outrage and 3 pages of comments. Thanks.

You are mostly correct, although I wouldn’t say the mother is a “saint” She is just being a normal supportive mom, although maybe you consider that to be a saint, not sure.

 

[mildone_rivals]

So, let me understand this. The cops are the bad guys for enforcing the law? And the mother is a saint for drinking with her underage daughter? And no high achieving, h.s. senior will ever apply to a college where the police, you know, police underaged public drinking? And Rutgers is the only school where police enforce the drinking laws at a tailgate?

I’m trying to connect the dots for the OP’s outrage and 3 pages of comments. Thanks.

No. Like most of the country, the vast majority of cops are good guys. But, like in any profession, there are always going to be some bad apples. This overzealous MCSD deputy has been hassling the crap out of everybody he meets. He's the problem. Not all cops.

And yeah, the drinking age is ridiculous. The mother is neither a saint nor a devil for drinking with a 19 year old adult.

The police shouldn't be policing a non-inebriated person drinking in the presence of her parents. If the kid was falling down drunk, that'd be one thing. Doesn't appear to be close to the case here.

 

[RU4Real]

Who else could Rutgers University hire? After all, we do need a security presence for game-day and my guess would be that the normal police departments don't have the personpower to help in large numbers.

They do, if you ratchet the numbers down to a reasonable level.

Between RUPD, PPD, HPPD, NBPD and perhaps EBPD, there are WAY more than enough personnel to handle an extra duty assignment on the scale of a B1G football game. As has been pointed out, here, ad nauseum, there are no other comparable college venues that have the sheer manpower in uniform that Rutgers has, on gameday. It's not even close.

 

[Retired711]

It's my understanding that RU is paying these guys to watch the lots. Stop paying. That simple. If MCSO wants to pay these guys to harass a 20 year old girl drinking a beer with her family so be it. RU shouldn't be paying for this sort of harassment.

I keep asking and no one answers: what's the alternative to using these guys?? Surely we can't do without any security on game day.