Banchero commits to duke

RalphDaltonFan

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Terrence Clarke never had a scholarship offer from Duke and never even visited Duke in person. Can't even consider Clarke a true target for Duke without a official offer scholarship. Boston definitely had Duke's attention and an offer. So i would consider that a win, but certainly not Clarke, who had no offer yet.

Yet several Duke insiders selected Duke for him due to info at the Peach Jam last Summer. So they just did that to **** around and be goof offs? Clarke's mother also talked of how she preferred Duke initially--which is impossible if they aren't recruiting you, but I'll take Flawless Nole's take over Clarke's family or people who cover Duke and speak with their coaching staff.

I have very good insight into this recruitment, Duke wanted him, they also didn't realize he was locked up to Kentucky back well prior to Summer AAU season and when they did, they moved on as good programs do.
 

LineSkiCat14

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Word coming out today that Paolo committed after meeting with Dukes John Scheyer approximately 1 week ago. If you don't think assistance have a major impact on recruiting your wrong. John has been a major player in Dukes recruitment taking over the lead roll after Capel had left.

That would of been around the same time Chandler announced his commitment out of the blue.

Also a week ago is when KP for UK was a done deal confirmed to the NBA. You can bet Duke used that in their pitch.

Cal's names is the biggest wave with UKs tradition. But recruits now and days know the assistance on these programs as well and probably have more of a relationship and contact with the assistance

Scheyer is not what swayed Banchero. Whatever was in Jon Scheyer's hands, is what swayed Banchero. He was a failed NBA player and not very popular among the rest of college basketball when he played. Banchero doesn't look at Scheyer and go "Yeah, this guy gets it!"
 

RalphDaltonFan

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And we really only landed Knox and EJ for minutes/chemistry issues. I don't really even consider those "wins" over Duke. As far as I'm concerned, we were their 2nd choice.

Boy, I'm glad this isn't college football.. 24 of the top50 would have houses in NC. The recruiting would be way past Saban/Dabo. Duke's roster would legit be an NFL team.

I would consider UK landing EJ Montgomery a sign of what needs to change. Montgomery was a guy they weren't interested in initially because they properly evaluated him, then they got into Spring and some of these guys look more attractive and you talk yourself into taking them instead of sticking with the gut reason you passed initially. Fit/Mentality matter to any program and EJ isn't type who excels at UK, think that was proven. Then again, I don't see Montgomery doing anything different anywhere else. Some play because they have been told they could be/will be great and others play because they want to be great.

Knox was a big time win for UK, had nothing to do with chemistry.
 

RalphDaltonFan

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I just don't buy this. KP was an assistant coach. We can say that he may have a bigger part in development than we realize, I can accept that. But it was still Cal's name and his work with the NBA that got kids their millions. What KP leaves and Banchero is just like "man, I'm not sure John Calipari can get it done?" No way.

However, I imagine there was a BIT of a pause when KP left and that was Coach K's in.

You just don't commit 6 months early, to your 4th/5th choice like that, without something happening. It wasn't KP leaving.. it wasn't that Banchero was never considering us.. it was the same thing that happened with Zion, and likely the same thing that happened with Wiggins.

Assistant Coaches matter far more than you think. Your with them more and they do the development work--it's a credit to Cal that he had a great Assistant/Staff. It's the HC who deserves/gets credit and blame but often the staff is just as if not more responsible for outcomes/development, etc....

Payne leaving as a well known player development guy may have effected things but I agree that UK was never in the position they assumed. Thing that reflects that is how Travis Graf mentioned that Banchero's camp is tight lipped but yet UK media guys and National guys were sticking with his visit/post visit excitement.

Wiggins was a lean to UK at one point but the All Star Circuit decided things for him--Adidas got him with signing bonus, delivered him to Kansas as part of the deal. Things worked out just fine after missing him.

I never heard a single word of UK being in lead spot for Zion Williamson. That recruitment is separate from Banchero who UK was in a great spot early on but media kept running with it and the reclassification angle.

UK can be just fine if they don't panic. The thing to do is land the best class/players you can, not worry about position reaching like they did with Montgomery back in '18.
 
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Sparkaces

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I would consider UK landing EJ Montgomery a sign of what needs to change. Montgomery was a guy they weren't interested in initially because they properly evaluated him, then they got into Spring and some of these guys look more attractive and you talk yourself into taking them instead of sticking with the gut reason you passed initially. Fit/Mentality matter to any program and EJ isn't type who excels at UK, think that was proven. Then again, I don't see Montgomery doing anything different anywhere else. Some play because they have been told they could be/will be great and others play because they want to be great.

Knox was a big time win for UK, had nothing to do with chemistry.
One thing I have wondered about EJ is he was the top kid in his class when he was young then his ranking dropped, but then out of the blue late in his senior year he pops back up into the top 10. Why do you think his ranking popped back up when it is pretty clear he was highly overrated?
 

LineSkiCat14

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I would consider UK landing EJ Montgomery a sign of what needs to change. Montgomery was a guy they weren't interested in initially because they properly evaluated him, then they got into Spring and some of these guys look more attractive and you talk yourself into taking them instead of sticking with the gut reason you passed initially. Fit/Mentality matter to any program and EJ isn't type who excels at UK, think that was proven. Then again, I don't see Montgomery doing anything different anywhere else. Some play because they have been told they could be/will be great and others play because they want to be great.

Knox was a big time win for UK, had nothing to do with chemistry.


I meant Knox was more about minutes. As I recall, he was a huge Duke lean, and it was kind of a surprise he picked UK. Without looking, I think Duke had several elite talents in place ahead of him. Granted Bagley and Duval came after. But that recruitment sorta felt like Knox saw a bit of a log jam at Duke, I could totally be wrong.

As for EJ, there was a lot of reports that he didn't mesh with Zion/RJ and company. Otherwise, he would have been there.
 

RalphDaltonFan

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One thing I have wondered about EJ is he was the top kid in his class when he was young then his ranking dropped, but then out of the blue late in his senior year he pops back up into the top 10. Why do you think his ranking popped back up when it is pretty clear he was highly overrated?

Had a good SR year at Wheeler and that class wasn't very good after the top 5. Barrett re-classed, Zion was as advertised, Reddish and EJ symbolize that class IMO--lack consistent motor and while Reddish is far more talented and has far more upside, it speaks to class when guys who are criticized for motor are ranked in top 10. So when you see a guy who flashed during SR year and think "maybe he figured it out" you take a gamble. It didn't pay off and really he's the only guy in that class that was in that "do you/don't you" category for UK.

Look at UK class that year--and if anything I compliment their recruiting in a mediocre class--they got Quickley who delivered as SEC POY, Keldon Johnson who was also a once highly touted top 5 guy in that class and then faded only to have a monster Summer and they evaluated him and adjusted to missing on other guys. Tyler Herro is arguably the best non Zion guy out of either Duke/UK's class in the NBA right now and his durability makes him a more impactful rookie this season.

It's how you evaluate and UK staff has done a great job. Thing that pisses off the fans is they know how Cal does with talent like the program is coming up short (although it's why I'm so excited about the '21 team due to the '20 class) and just falling short in Elite 8 or NCAA's due to missing on the 1/2 guys who put you over the top in the Cal era is what has stung.
 
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RalphDaltonFan

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I meant Knox was more about minutes. As I recall, he was a huge Duke lean, and it was kind of a surprise he picked UK. Without looking, I think Duke had several elite talents in place ahead of him. Granted Bagley and Duval came after. But that recruitment sorta felt like Knox saw a bit of a log jam at Duke, I could totally be wrong.

As for EJ, there was a lot of reports that he didn't mesh with Zion/RJ and company. Otherwise, he would have been there.

EJ didn't like Barrett and saw how Carter got misled when Bagley Jr reclassed and moved him to Center position they promised he'd not play. So he knew how he'd be used. I'd have stayed away from him and never cared for him as a player, but UK is confident in player development with good reason and took the chance.

Knox was Duke/UNC battle for long time and FSU talk was due to parents being alums. Knox was really the player they missed that '18 season as he'd have gotten them to Final Four and they sucked at SF spot--had to play zone due to being so slow and lacking depth. Duval/Bagley Jr going to Duke after their own media talked of how they couldn't land either because of dirty recruitment is what broke the cherry in how many who viewed them as buttoned up and clean and saw what they were. Especially when Bagley Jr qualified for Duke in a month of online classes. lol
 

LineSkiCat14

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EJ didn't like Barrett and saw how Carter got misled when Bagley Jr reclassed and moved him to Center position they promised he'd not play. So he knew how he'd be used. I'd have stayed away from him and never cared for him as a player, but UK is confident in player development with good reason and took the chance.

Knox was Duke/UNC battle for long time and FSU talk was due to parents being alums. Knox was really the player they missed that '18 season as he'd have gotten them to Final Four and they sucked at SF spot--had to play zone due to being so slow and lacking depth. Duval/Bagley Jr going to Duke after their own media talked of how they couldn't land either because of dirty recruitment is what broke the cherry in how many who viewed them as buttoned up and clean and saw what they were. Especially when Bagley Jr qualified for Duke in a month of online classes. lol

I guess that's my point in all this: It feels to me like EJ and Knox would have went to Duke under slightly different circumstances. Cool that we landed them, but admittedly, it feels like sloppy seconds. Not all that different than when guys like Quincy Miller and Malik Newman go elsewhere (yes, I'm sure they have their own backgrounds), it feels like Kentucky was kind of like "Ok, that's fine, good luck to yah".

That's why I made the College Football comparison. The Duke "offer" is so good right now, the only thing stopping them is that Basketball is a 5-6 man sport when it comes to top recruits.
 

RalphDaltonFan

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I guess that's my point in all this: It feels to me like EJ and Knox would have went to Duke under slightly different circumstances. Cool that we landed them, but admittedly, it feels like sloppy seconds. Not all that different than when guys like Quincy Miller and Malik Newman go elsewhere (yes, I'm sure they have their own backgrounds), it feels like Kentucky was kind of like "Ok, that's fine, good luck to yah".

That's why I made the College Football comparison. The Duke "offer" is so good right now, the only thing stopping them is that Basketball is a 5-6 man sport when it comes to top recruits.

Knox was a recruiting win and shocked Duke and others involved. There was no sloppy seconds. Go back and look how that was and if anything it pissed them off and they went hard and negative recruiting against UK for that one. It was all "cute" when they got pissy with each other over Marques Bolden (again-I'd have rather had Jarrett Allen but still believe Bolden develops differently if at UK) but Knox was a stinging shot at Duke.

Montgomery....I agree but I felt whomever didn't get him, actually was the winner. I think UK improved without him returning too--he's not mentally built to play like the guys coming in--personality wise. EJ is a guy talking up the NBA and he's put in less work then any UK guy I can ever remember in preparing for a pro career. At some point you can't live off what some thought you could be, you need to produce. Hope it works out and proves me/doubters wrong but I'd not be willing to invest anything in expecting that to happen. His last play as a Wildcat will be remembered fondly and good for him. It's also a game he was benched for his level of play but it's what you do last they remember. LOL

Malik Newman was a UK coveted recruit as was Jaylen Brown. Newman's Father got in the way and messed that up. He wanted control and thought he could develop his son better than UK--well we saw how that ended up and he tried to get UK to take him as a Transfer too. Brown was set to come and then Shareef Abdur Rahim stepped up and made sure he followed his path. It worked out so good for him. Stanley Johnson is one I think would've benefited from UK as well.

That entire '15 class was goofy--Zimmerman kid with crazy mom, but going from thinking you get Malik Newman to Isaiah Briscoe.....is a big L. Newman's worst at Mississippi State is still better than Briscoe's best.
 
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kyjeff1

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Assistant Coaches matter far more than you think. Your with them more and they do the development work--it's a credit to Cal that he had a great Assistant/Staff. It's the HC who deserves/gets credit and blame but often the staff is just as if not more responsible for outcomes/development, etc....

Payne leaving as a well known player development guy may have effected things but I agree that UK was never in the position they assumed. Thing that reflects that is how Travis Graf mentioned that Banchero's camp is tight lipped but yet UK media guys and National guys were sticking with his visit/post visit excitement.

Wiggins was a lean to UK at one point but the All Star Circuit decided things for him--Adidas got him with signing bonus, delivered him to Kansas as part of the deal. Things worked out just fine after missing him.

I never heard a single word of UK being in lead spot for Zion Williamson. That recruitment is separate from Banchero who UK was in a great spot early on but media kept running with it and the reclassification angle.

UK can be just fine if they don't panic. The thing to do is land the best class/players you can, not worry about position reaching like they did with Montgomery back in '18.
On your last paragraph, I think You are somewhat accurate, but also wrong.

Yeah, you have to get the best players you can, but you also have to have a balanced team. You can't just throw a bunch of small forwards out there and hope you're going to win. Balance is extremely important.

So, we have seen this happen several times since K started taking our lunch at the recruiting table. We take what's left, Cal gets credit for getting a top 2 class, they struggle, fall short in the tournament, because we're too young, 1 player short and the pieces don't fit right. Then most leave, because they have potential.

This is a dangerous recruiting game. It's roulette. If you throw your hat into this one and done game and you come up short, as we have so far for 21/22, you risk getting left with a flawed team and that’s what our 21/22 squad looks to be.

Hopefully Cal can get some great transfers, but again, he's having to take transfers because his #1 targets went elsewhere, so he has holes to plug. That’s basically flying by the seat of your pants. Cal has been bailed out a few times when he grabbed a late recruit or transfer and hopefully he gets lucky again this year (Sarr), but what if Sarr never becomes available to him? Our 20/21 team would have been a doughnut. The pieces have to fit.

Lastly, that 2019 Duke team was as loaded as any team I have seen in the modern era, but they lost in the E8 to a team that was properly built with veteran players. Duke was great, but they were flawed. They had 3 small forwards and a pg. They still should have won, but their youth reared its ugly head and they panicked.
 
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kb22stang

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Word coming out today that Paolo committed after meeting with Dukes John Scheyer approximately 1 week ago. If you don't think assistance have a major impact on recruiting your wrong. John has been a major player in Dukes recruitment taking over the lead roll after Capel had left.

That would of been around the same time Chandler announced his commitment out of the blue.

Also a week ago is when KP for UK was a done deal confirmed to the NBA. You can bet Duke used that in their pitch.

Cal's names is the biggest wave with UKs tradition. But recruits now and days know the assistance on these programs as well and probably have more of a relationship and contact with the assistance

Sorry, I don't buy the assistant routing. Just as you said Capel left and Scheyer stepped right in and didn't miss a beat. Why? Because Duke is the IT program. Cal had it for a few years after he came to UK, but Duke took it back.

Now we can all whine and say that UK is the only program doing things without cheating, which seems self serving and ridiculous, or we, or more accurately the coaching staff, can try to beat K at the elite recruit game, or do more with less (which hasn't been Cal's philosophy in a long time).

There's no shame in being a top 5 program, even if you're not number 1. And for this generation Duke is the number 1 program. I can be a fun of UK and still acknowledge that.
 
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It looks as if Duke's selling point to Banchero was that he will play point forward. Allegedly K told Banchero that Cal would stick him on the block and not let him develop his game. I think everything changed with bigs with Skal. Cal tried to develop Skalthe way he developed KAT and that backfired on him and is continually being used against him. I also think the whole snubbing Nike and Phil Knight's Nike 80 tournament isn't helping our situation either.
 
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kb22stang

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As for Banchero, just makes zero sense. Same thing with Zion, more or less a commitment out of left field, and something that changed, seemingly, on a dime. I mean, Duke was like a 4th or 5th option, and Banchero was said to be months off from a decision.

I keep reading this about various recruits, but I don't get it. Are you saying this because of what the "insiders" said? If so, we have identified your problem. People would be a lot happier if they realized those guys don't know much more than the rest of us, and if they do, it is rarely coming directly from a recruits mouth and even if it does you still don't know the players motivation or why they might mislead media.

Stop listening to the people that charge to give you inside information, they are educated guesses at best.

And there are lots of other examples:
Player just changes their mind
Received new information about a school or about returning players
Maybe the difference between the leader and the 5th place school was infinitesimally small.
Pressure from a family member
Changes in their personal life that lead them to a different conclusion
 

CB3UK

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Eventually we'll have to stop putting all our eggs in one basket and actually start a 4 yr plan and developing guys to be a cohesive team and build roster depth. Things like this wont hurt nearly as much. Weve got 1 guy back this season. 1. I just dont understand why it doesnt bother some people. The win total looks nice sure, but the whole thing just isn't satisfying. Im not going ro cover any new ground here, nor are any of the inevitable rebuttals. Thinga hopefully will change soon. KP gone, OAD NBA rules, all that. Its great to be all in on the top OAD as a strategy, but we havent been getting those guys for several years now. Its a problem. The solution for me personally is to not be as emotionally invested. Watch the Cats and cheer, complain when we screw up, be elated when we win, but by and large this kind of minutiae with these recruits has just completely lost me as far as interest or concern. Each team eventually develops its own identity. But weve hit a rut with this strategy in regards to meeting UKs goals.
 

Jacket4

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It looks as if Duke's selling point to Banchero was that he will play point forward. Allegedly K told Banchero that Cal would stick him on the block and not let him develop his game. I think everything changed with bigs with Skal. Cal tried to develop Skalthe way he developed KAT and that backfired on him and is continually being used against him. I also think the whole snubbing Nike and Phil Knight's Nike 80 tournament isn't helping our situation either.
Duke always seems to allow it's players more freedom on offense. As an elite recruit that has to be attractive knowing the ball will be in your hands. Problem is someone is gonna get the short end of the deal after being promised the same i.e. Reddish Carter etc.

Calipari has always sold his bigs on paint touches. The game is changing and recruits see the NBA wanting that big that can play like a guard. Cal needs to
 

UK90

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It looks as if Duke's selling point to Banchero was that he will play point forward. Allegedly K told Banchero that Cal would stick him on the block and not let him develop his game. I think everything changed with bigs with Skal. Cal tried to develop Skalthe way he developed KAT and that backfired on him and is continually being used against him. I also think the whole snubbing Nike and Phil Knight's Nike 80 tournament isn't helping our situation either.

And how would you possibly know what K supposedly said to him about Cal? What is your source for that claim?
 
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gracetoyou

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Just read the corey evans article. Banchero said " coach k talked to me about he coached lebron".....

LOL literally every recruit there says that! But USA basketball didn't help coach k.


Why do kids care if Coach K spent a few weeks wit LeBron. Zion was hooked by that to. Whoopidity do!
 
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I am right there with most that would say I not worried Cal is always going to get us a top-class, but lately I am wondering. It feels like this COVID situation and how he recruits are really messing with our recruiting. I mean I know he likes to meet with guys before an offer, but don't we only have 2 offers out right now for 2021? That's crazy in August. I mean we are a Hardy picking someone else away from it getting really scary in my opinion.

I love Cal, but we continue to whiff on bigs and after no chance, last year due to COVID, and this season being up in the air with an amazing team that we will lose the stars from 2021 would be a huge year. If we don't have a great team in 2021-2022 that will be a decade without a title, but more importantly 3 years without a shot. I know Grad transfers and all that, but Cal is yet to take more than 1 Grad transfer per year. I know most will say it's fine, but it feels a little different and it is with COVID. I hope I am worrying about nothing, but man it seems a little bleak right now and like we keep losing things and not gaining much.
 

bucsrule8872

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I am a duke fan and will admit I favor boston over steward 10 times over even though they both will be outstanding players. I am just saying what was said by duke insiders close to the program.

Yup. That’s called “spin.”

It doesn’t take much skill at evaluating talent to see that at this point in their careers Boston is head and shoulders above Steward.
 

michael895

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Yup. That’s called “spin.”

It doesn’t take much skill at evaluating talent to see that at this point in their careers Boston is head and shoulders above Steward.
Once again, I agree that Boston is a better player and like him over steward, but once K saw DJ in person for the first time he went all in on him and slowed down on Boston. I don’t know the reason but it was likely due to that he didn’t want to wait and sensed that Boston might be leaning elsewhere.
 
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EastCoastYoungCat

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I am a duke fan and will admit I favor boston over steward 10 times over even though they both will be outstanding players. I am just saying what was said by duke insiders close to the program.
And I’m calling bs on them. I understand in some cases you take a lesser heralded player over another for fit, intangibles, etc but that wasn’t he case with Boston a great talent and great kid everyone wanted him.
 
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michael895

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And I’m calling bs on them. I understand in some cases you take a lesser heralded player over another for fit, intangibles, etc but that wasn’t he case with Boston a great talent and great kid everyone wanted him.
I don’t really see the incentive for Adam Rowe to lie about that.
 

michael895

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Once again, it’s called “spin.”
I agree to some degree but the fact is, K watched Steward play in person and dropped most pursuit of Boston, likely because he felt that Boston was leaning UK and wanted to secure steward quickly.
 

bucsrule8872

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I agree to some degree but the fact is, K watched Steward play in person and dropped most pursuit of Boston, likely because he felt that Boston was leaning UK and wanted to secure steward quickly.

Yup. He got the hint and moved on, but it wasn’t a “we’d rather have Steward” situation, it was a “we can’t get Boston, so we better have a backup plan” situation.

Cal has had those type of situations as well.
 

michael895

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Yup. He got the hint and moved on, but it wasn’t a “we’d rather have Steward” situation, it was a “we can’t get Boston, so we better have a backup plan” situation.

Cal has had those type of situations as well.
I agree, although I don’t think Boston was all the way gone at the time and K could of made it at least interesting in the end.