***CC22 and the Fever mega thread***

[eyesofhawk]

Clark had more points, more assists, more rebounds, and more blocks than Bueckers when they were freshmen. Bueckers had more steals and fewer turnovers. Hell, Clark led the nation in scoring and was second in the nation in assists. And even though Bueckers has always been lauded for her "efficiency," Clark had more points per shot attempt.

But PB played for UConn and CC played for Iowa. ESPN has long been the unofficial marketing department of UConn women's basketball. If PB had stayed home and played for the Gophers and CC had gone to UConn, you can bet ESPN would have been hyping CC more from the beginning.

Did women's college basketball even have a "face" at that time? Keep in mind that when they were freshmen, PB and CC played in empty arenas due to COVID. The most compelling story I recall from that season was when they held the entire NCAA Tournament in San Antonio and one of Oregon's players complained on social media that the women's accommodations were inferior to the men's.

Hyping CC more? Or hyping her more than PB?

Hype or not, again PB was the higher rated player at the time.

Yes, Paige was the face, at the time of her injury. You said it yourself; she played for UCONN. And was considered the best player in the country. Of course she was the face

 

[Bro D]

So she was fired after they lost in the playoffs and not 8 games into the system?

Thank you for proving my point.

Tom Thibadeau was fired after going to the conference finals last year but yea, great point

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

Your lengthy reply does not in any way support your earlier claim that White is “doing everything in her power” to “leash” Clark. That claim is patently false.

Evidently you aren't watching the games. That's fine. We'll see how this plays out over the course of the season.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

Runouts should never be available in professional basketball. And guess what, they aren't.

Don't even see them in the men's college game.

There are a couple reasons CC was able to find those opportunities at Iowa, that essentially amount to bad defense.

Runouts are not something that should be viewed as a viable strategy

Runouts should never be available in professional basketball. And guess what, they aren't.

Don't even see them in the men's college game.

There are a couple reasons CC was able to find those opportunities at Iowa, that essentially amount to bad defense.

Runouts are not something that should be viewed as a viable strategy

Jees another guy who doesn't watch the games and then comments on them. Clark has still had MANY "go ahead" assists in the W. Maybe they "shouldn't be available", but she sure has pushed the ball ahead many times.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

That's why I said, "should never". Read better.

Because other than a very rare pinball transition opportunity off of a turnover, those runouts should never happen.

Show me a runout basket, and I'll show you terrible defense

That's why I said, "should never". Read better.

Because other than a very rare pinball transition opportunity off of a turnover, those runouts should never happen.

Show me a runout basket, and I'll show you terrible defense

Your just doubling down. Even in the W Clarks had fast break assists on MADE baskets. You tell people to read better, you need to watch better....

 

[Randon]

Yeah well ya know what, he should pay me not to be, then........


That's a weird bunch of stuff to edit in afterwards.........

I couldn't agree more. CC is not playing well period and her emotional outbursts with the refs and SW aren't helping her either. Her constant whining is gradually chasing away her fanbase. She needs to suck it up and just play basketball.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

No, I still haven't said Paige is better. Read better.

It sounds to me as if the GM's might disagree with the American public. And the American public is not paid to make expert basketball decisions.

Paige didn't do anything until after CC graduated? Like what? Win a championship? Neither did CC.

No one will buy that I'm an Iowa fan? . That's why they usually refer to me as a homer, right? I'm not sure where I've said anything here that would have to do with being an Iowa fan or not. You and I might not get along very well in person, tough guy. I don't appreciate being called things that I'm not. Nor do I appreciate being told that I'm acting.

Yes, run the ball. You got something right

From a lot of what we see in the W, I'm not so sure the execs in the W are "experts" either..... Certainly the front office for Indiana has done a pretty lukewarm job at best (if even that building a solid roster). Last years disaster bringing in several vets who had their own agenda, and this years team has no solid post defense or anyone to back up Boston. Frankly AB would be the perfect 4 if they had actually brought in a solid post player, and they stood pat with Dantas who while the tallest player on the team she's not a post player on either side of the floor.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

Pablow, your 2nd quote does not exist in this thread.

It's the difference between "was" and "is".

Before Paige's injury, she was very widely regarded as the better player. Had always been the higher ranked prospect. And was the face of the college game.

I don't think it's as clear cut, at this point in their careers. I can certainly see how people might prefer CC. If I had a gun to my head, I'd say PB is better. But that isn't something I've said in this thread until now

Frankly that all depends on who you talked to, and your making it a big deal if they were 1, 2, or 3. I think Cardodsa was in the top 3. Do you think she was a top 3 player. I don't, and Reese was top 5 and she certainly wasn't that either. Somewhere in that top group was HVL and she's not a game changer either. The only thing you posted, I'd agree with is Paige is a great and consistent player. She won the fresh of the year because she played at UCONN. Clark had the better season on a MUCH less talented team.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

I think Sides was better than people gave her credit for. She was learning, but she took a major leap in the second half of the season. Not to mention she was willing to learn and change…White is not- she thinks her way is the only way regardless of the players she has and that does not lead to consistent success.

The major things Sides did in the second half was get out of the way. Probably the reason she got fired by management. Unfortunately. White won't be doing that....

 

[WDSMHawk]

Tom Thibadeau was fired after going to the conference finals last year but yea, great point

Comparing a coach who constantly underachievied in the playoffs getting canned after 5 seasons vs a coach who overachieved with an injured team getting canned 8 games into year 2.

 

[Hawksfor3]

I think Sides was better than people gave her credit for. She was learning, but she took a major leap in the second half of the season. Not to mention she was willing to learn and change…White is not- she thinks her way is the only way regardless of the players she has and that does not lead to consistent success.

I agree. Sides eventually came to her senses. After being fired from a college team and pro team, you'd think the least she had learned was to unfold her arms and make adjustments.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Jees another guy who doesn't watch the games and then comments on them. Clark has still had MANY "go ahead" assists in the W. Maybe they "shouldn't be available", but she sure has pushed the ball ahead many times.

I've watched the W enough to have been a profitable bettor at it all but three of years of it's existence.

Yes, Clark is great at pushing it ahead. And her relentless onslaught does create those opportunities more than what would otherwise be available.

But the point is, from a defensive mentality, those runouts should never happen. So it does amount to bad defense, when those occur. So why are we talking about runouts?

Not taking anything away from the plays CC and Co. are able to create. She's one of few that can drop that long straightline pass on the dime.

By why are we talking about something that always amounts to bad D? It's not something that should be expected to replicate the college opportunities

 

[eyesofhawk]

Your just doubling down. Even in the W Clarks had fast break assists on MADE baskets. You tell people to read better, you need to watch better....

I never said CC hasn't had those opportunities in the W.

Read better and/or try not to mischaracterize

 

[eyesofhawk]

From a lot of what we see in the W, I'm not so sure the execs in the W are "experts" either..... Certainly the front office for Indiana has done a pretty lukewarm job at best (if even that building a solid roster). Last years disaster bringing in several vets who had their own agenda, and this years team has no solid post defense or anyone to back up Boston. Frankly AB would be the perfect 4 if they had actually brought in a solid post player, and they stood pat with Dantas who while the tallest player on the team she's not a post player on either side of the floor.

Nor are the message boarders experts.

The point is, the GM's have the more credible opinion

 

[eyesofhawk]

Frankly that all depends on who you talked to, and your making it a big deal if they were 1, 2, or 3. I think Cardodsa was in the top 3. Do you think she was a top 3 player. I don't, and Reese was top 5 and she certainly wasn't that either. Somewhere in that top group was HVL and she's not a game changer either. The only thing you posted, I'd agree with is Paige is a great and consistent player. She won the fresh of the year because she played at UCONN. Clark had the better season on a MUCH less talented team.

I said PB was "widely regarded" as the better player, at that time. And she was. Yes, freshman of the year.

That doesn't mean some people didn't consider it to be CC.

It can be said that PB won freshman of the year because she played for UCONN. But it can't be said that anyone other she, won the award.

And I'm not making a big deal about the comparison. I merely posted that PB's midrange pull-up could become a dominant move, that allows her to become a rare perimeter player in the women's game, that is able to take over games. Evil Monkey then began the comparison by posting "CC > Paige"

 

[Cidhawkeye]

I didn't say either player was better.

But I tend to agree with the polled GM's, that chose Paige as the player they'd pick to start a franchise with. Just a much more efficient and sustainable game. And that’s not even to mention the huge gap, defensively.

Paige was always better. She was the face of women's college hoops before she got hurt. CC ran with that opportunity and did great things, no doubt. Credit to her. But Paige didn't go anywhere.

And I'm a Hawkeye fan, btw

'I didn't say either player was better.'

'Paige was always better'

Other than the fact that you did you are spot on. Solid work from you.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

I never said CC hasn't had those opportunities in the W.

Read better and/or try not to mischaracterize

Your being a clown and everybody on here knows it but you. And I'm NOT mischaracterizing what you said. Post #4714. YOU said, "Runouts should never be available", AND, "guess what they AREN'T"". See, that's simply NOT true, IF you have CC22's skill as a passer, they ARE available at times and she's proven that.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

Nor are the message boarders experts.

The point is, the GM's have the more credible opinion

Maybe YOU should read better. I never said that message board posters were "experts" did I? No. I said you could look at the body of work and question execs like the Fever front office on they're being "experts" Second year in a row this team has serious roster issues

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

Maybe YOU should read better. I never said that message board posters were "experts" did I? No. I said you could look at the body of work and question execs like the Fever front office on they're being "experts" Second year in a row this team has serious roster issues

He's the biggest idiot on this board.

 

[Legend12]

He's the biggest idiot on this board.

There is no way that is his first screen name, right?

 

[eyesofhawk]

'I didn't say either player was better.'

'Paige was always better'

Other than the fact that you did you are spot on. Solid work from you.

Lol.

I was replying to Evil having posted, "CC > Paige", in response to one of my posts. In that post, I had not claimed that either PB or CC is the better player. So in essence, his post had nothing to do with the post of mine he responded to.

Probably something I could have overlooked. But he also in that post, called me a UCONN fan. Evil has previously insinuated that I'm not a Hawkeye fan. And I've told him I don't appreciate it. So at that point, I was going to strike down his mischaracterizations.

I began, in the post you've attached, by letting it be known that, "I didn't say either player was better (in my previous post)".

Later in.the post, and clearly in reference to the years leading up to Paige's injury, I said, "Paige WAS always better".

Well done Sherlock Holmes. I mean, you can actually read, correct? I find it hard to believe you're even being serious with this ****

 

[eyesofhawk]

Your being a clown and everybody on here knows it but you. And I'm NOT mischaracterizing what you said. Post #4714. YOU said, "Runouts should never be available", AND, "guess what they AREN'T"". See, that's simply NOT true, IF you have CC22's skill as a passer, they ARE available at times and she's proven that.

I've already responded to what was meant by, "runouts aren't available". They aren't available often enough to be important enough to discuss. I'm not going to provide the post #. It can be easily enough found.

Yes, the runouts are available at times. But bad defense is a requisite in those opportunities.

Yes, it also takes great skill to capitalize on the bad defense. But the runout would not be available, if not for bad defense. Just like every other time CC is pushing the ball, and the defense decides to get their *** back on D.

So AGAIN, why is something that requires bad defense being discussed?

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Look, I’m not a huge fan of White, but comparing college to the pros is just not the same. Look at Pitino and other college coaches who go to the pros. Most have failed. In college you get to control everything. And most college coaches are control freaks. I’m not sure if Vandy had any resources for women’s bball when she was there. But yes, she was clearly lousy in her time there. I’m not sure what she’s trying to prove or do here with CC, and there is clearly a power struggle going on. Neither one seems very happy right now.

In Men’s basketball the best coaches are in the NBA. They get paid a heck of a lot more there because they’re better coaches. Almost 1/3 of the league has a head coach earning more than $10MM. The top few college guys are earning between $6-9MM. A lot of college coaches have failed when making the jump. Pitino is a good example, but there are many others.

In Women’s basketball, for the reasons I outlined, the best coaches are in college. Which is why they get paid more there. I already identified a few examples of mediocre, or worse, coaches that failed in college but succeeded in the WNBA. Including the one widely regarded as being the best ever in the league. But nobody talks about her as being a better coach than Geno or Summit. There’s probably a dozen coaches from college history I’d take before Reeve.

With more money in the WNBA, it would be interesting to see if any team would be willing to throw $3-4 MM to try to lure one of the best coaches out of college. Of course that’s half the salary cap, so it’d be like the NBA paying a coach $80MM, which would never happen.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Maybe YOU should read better. I never said that message board posters were "experts" did I? No. I said you could look at the body of work and question execs like the Fever front office on they're being "experts" Second year in a row this team has serious roster issues

I didn't say you did say message boarders are experts.

I said the point is that GM's have the more credible opinion.

You're the only one talking about the Fever roster and front office

 

[eyesofhawk]

There is no way that is his first screen name, right?

One and only (assuming you're referring to me)

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

I've already responded to what was meant by, "runouts aren't available". They aren't available often enough to be important enough to discuss. I'm not going to provide the post #. It can be easily enough found.

Yes, the runouts are available at times. But bad defense is a requisite in those opportunities.

Yes, it also takes great skill to capitalize on the bad defense. But the runout would not be available, if not for bad defense. Just like every other time CC is pushing the ball, and the defense decides to get their *** back on D.

So AGAIN, why is something that requires bad defense being discussed?

Go ahead and dance around what you said and then double down like you didn't say what I posted , "AREN'T Available." Your not fooling anyone. And frankly Clark has done that against good defensive teams both at Iowa and the pro's because she's just that skilled and her vision is beyond pretty much all of her peers.

 

[Bro D]

Comparing a coach who constantly underachievied in the playoffs getting canned after 5 seasons vs a coach who overachieved with an injured team getting canned 8 games into year 2.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Go ahead and dance around what you said and then double down like you didn't say what I posted , "AREN'T Available." Your not fooling anyone. And frankly Clark has done that against good defensive teams both at Iowa and the pro's because she's just that skilled and her vision is beyond pretty much all of her peers.

Absolutely agree about CC's vision and skills.

Yes, CC has made the play against good defensive teams. But they did not play good defense on that possession.

And between the context of my posts and the attempts at clarification, you're the one that isn't fooling anybody.

You see, I happen to be the expert, when it comes to the intent of my own posts. I have provided perfectly legitimate clarifications that contain perfectly clear reasoning.

Of everyone within the Fever organization, trying to find some answers for how to play better, pushing the ball might be getting discussed. But nobody is sitting there saying, "hey, we need to score more off runouts."

If they understand runouts not to be worth the time of discussion, as they REQUIRE bad D, then why should scoring off more runouts be a solution that's given the time of day on this board?

 

[Cidhawkeye]

Lol.

I was replying to Evil having posted, "CC > Paige", in response to one of my posts. In that post, I had not claimed that either PB or CC is the better player. So in essence, his post had nothing to do with the post of mine he responded to.

Probably something I could have overlooked. But he also in that post, called me a UCONN fan. Evil has previously insinuated that I'm not a Hawkeye fan. And I've told him I don't appreciate it. So at that point, I was going to strike down his mischaracterizations.

I began, in the post you've attached, by letting it be known that, "I didn't say either player was better (in my previous post)".

Later in.the post, and clearly in reference to the years leading up to Paige's injury, I said, "Paige WAS always better".

Well done Sherlock Holmes. I mean, you can actually read, correct? I find it hard to believe you're even being serious with this ****

Love your logic, you must not have passed that class.

You post this

‘Paige was always better.’

then you post this

'No, I still haven't said Paige is better.'

Then followed up the 'I still haven't said' with the 'but this is why I said it'

you have mastered your craft............

 

[huntinghawk]

Your lengthy reply does not in any way support your earlier claim that White is “doing everything in her power” to “leash” Clark. That claim is patently false.

You're a moran

 

[eyesofhawk]

Love your logic, you must not have passed that class.

You post this

‘Paige was always better.’

then you post this

'No, I still haven't said Paige is better.'

Then followed up the 'I still haven't said' with the 'but this is why I said it'

you have mastered your craft............

Bro, this probably the third time this distinction has had to be made.

AGAIN, it's the difference between,"WAS", and, "IS (currently)".

This is not difficult to understand

 

[ObeseMuffins]

Caitlin Clark is a negative defender and she’s getting isolated. It doesn’t help Kelsey Mitchell is also a bad defender.

 

[nu2u]

I’m a moran

Well said.

 

[JBO43]

H

Pablow, your 2nd quote does not exist in this thread.

It's the difference between "was" and "is".

Before Paige's injury, she was very widely regarded as the better player. Had always been the higher ranked prospect. And was the face of the college game.

I don't think it's as clear cut, at this point in their careers. I can certainly see how people might prefer CC. If I had a gun to my head, I'd say PB is better. But that isn't something I've said in this thread until now

Alright, who wants to hold the gun to eyes head?

 

[eyesofhawk]

H

Alright, who wants to hold the gun to eyes head?

Ah, that's funny.

Well done

 

[52317Hawk]

I've watched the W enough to have been a profitable bettor at it all but three of years of it's existence.

Yes, Clark is great at pushing it ahead. And her relentless onslaught does create those opportunities more than what would otherwise be available.

But the point is, from a defensive mentality, those runouts should never happen. So it does amount to bad defense, when those occur. So why are we talking about runouts?

Not taking anything away from the plays CC and Co. are able to create. She's one of few that can drop that long straightline pass on the dime.

By why are we talking about something that always amounts to bad D? It's not something that should be expected to replicate the college opportunities

I've watched the W enough to have been a profitable bettor at it all but three of years of it's existence.

What does this have to with anything regarding coaching, defensive adjustments, or anything basketball related? Hell, I've bet A'Ja and Plum overs on pts per game and I'm doing just fine.

If it wasn't so comically entertaining watching you troll everyone, you'd have been on ignore a long time ago.

 

[Hawksfor3]

 

[eyesofhawk]

I've watched the W enough to have been a profitable bettor at it all but three of years of it's existence.

What does this have to with anything regarding coaching, defensive adjustments, or anything basketball related? Hell, I've bet A'Ja and Plum overs on pts per game and I'm doing just fine.

If it wasn't so comically entertaining watching you troll everyone, you'd have been on ignore a long time ago.

Bother to at all read the particular string of posts that you're entering?

 

[Pawkhawk1]

Bother to at all read the particular string of posts that you're entering?

Dude. Just stop. Please. I am so tired of trying to scroll past all your posts.
Please, just stop

 

[eyesofhawk]

Dude. Just stop. Please. I am so tired of trying to scroll past all your posts.
Please, just stop

Imagine what I think of all these guys