How are people in apartments/condo/townhouse with no garage or in the city going to charge the EVs? Seems like a logistical nightmare to me.
OT: EV tax credit
- Thread starter Jtung230
- Start date
If you are getting EV you get a Tesla. To consider anything else is a big mistake.
Look up the resale value for both. You'd see your wrong.
As for appreciation of used ICE cars? I guess you could be right. There is a huge market for VCRs and flip phones.
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Expect the tax credit to be reinstated and possibly increase to $10K.
Tesla Model 3 SR+ is $39K
Have you seen the market for classic cars? Breaking records every year.
I hear you. You might consider an EV for a second family car. My wife and I charge the Telsa overnight and haven't had any issues for daily travel.
One company to key an eye out on is Redwood Materials, headed by an ex-Tesla exec.
I buy all my 6 cylinder high horse ICE vehicles used. Agree about that but I'll buy a POS electric car when penguins fly.
That would put it on par with the VW ID.4. The difference is that VW still has the 7500 federal tax credit and Tesla doesn’t. It will be a no brainer for me if they increase NJ to 10k. I would consider the Mach E too.
ETA: the problem with the model 3 is the big jump in pricing if you want awd. For Mach E and ID.4, AWD is a 3k and 4K option, respectively. For Tesla, it’s 9k.
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Where are people with no garage putting their charging station?
I’d have to drive an hour to the nearest Whole Foods parking lot to find a public charging station.
But my biggest concern about owning an EV is potential high maintenance costs. How much to replace the batteries?
I’d have to drive an hour to the nearest Whole Foods parking lot to find a public charging station.
But my biggest concern about owning an EV is potential high maintenance costs. How much to replace the batteries?
Good question, something NIO is working on for the Chinese market:
Except the majority of streets that have speed limits below 60, like residential or schools or construction.
Tho...
Tesla chargers are waterproof and can be installed outside of the house- costs less than $1000 installed. The batteries are designed to last 300-500k. Maintenance is less than an ICE- tires, brakes (less frequent than ICE due to regen braking), wipers- no oil changes. No scheduled maintenance.
Charging units can be setup for outdoors. You don’t need a garage. If you have an assigned parking space, you can have a charging spot.
I'd imagine you would have to have electricity run (probably underground) to your assigned parking space. That's not always an inexpensive thing.
Also, lots of older home's electric panel's are undersized. Adding another large circuit (240V / 50A?) may be difficult without upgrading the main service.
Just saying that this is not the trivial thing for all that you make it out to be.
People in cities are dumping their cars thanks to ride sharing companies. Parking garages are now 2/3 full now because of decrease monthly parking demands. Think apartment complexes will have to upgrade and offer it as an amenity.
This what we are considering.
Already have a 2017 Pilot for trips and long drives.
Day to day (even weekends) is local so an EV would be perfect.
Same here. Only I'd want the range to be closer to 500+ miles on a full charge. I'll also wait until charging infrastructure has gotten closer to gas station infrastructure in terms of availability.
Once the range and charging is good enough, I'll consider some SUV EVs. Gonna keep buying ICE sports cars for the lightness, agility and sounds until they are no longer sold. No interest in sedans.
You're either intentionally missing the point by choosing to be deliberately dense or you're actually clueless about both cars and investments. And your cell phone/VCR analogy is deeply flawed. EVs are a different technology than ICEs, not a more advanced one. Le Mans LMP1 cars (or the newer Hypercar class cars), or a current spec F1 car, which are different types of ICEs with varying degrees of hybrid tech, are the most technologically advanced cars on the planet today.
Back to cars as "investments"...
Your EV, and my ICE, started depreciating the moment we signed the paperwork and drove them off the lot. If that's your idea of an investment, then I have a bridge in which I'd like you to invest, please. One car depreciating more slowly than another does not magically make it a good investment vehicle (pun intended). It's still a depreciating asset.
As for ICE cars that do qualify as investment vehicles, you should look up some resale prices of some of the vanishingly few 0.5% of cars sold that, eventually, turn out to be decent investments. There are classic cars that appreciate in value over time. Some Corvettes, for example: https://moneyinc.com/most-expensive-corvettes-ever-sold-at-auction/. Bought for peanuts, sold for $3MM+. A decent return, although not exactly a rapid ROI.
There are a few examples of cars that immediately appreciate in value. Unobtainable and therefore extremely rare hypercars are one example. Another more common and obtainable example is the last series of the Porsche 991.2 911 GT3-RS. Many of them sold for well over MSRP (50-150K over in some cases). Some folks, who were well-enough connected to a Porsche dealership to get one for MSRP, were able to turn around and resell them 50-150K over MSRP a month or two later. That would have qualified as a good investment with a rapid ROI.
As a general rule with very few exceptions, cars are not investments, doesn't matter how they are powered.
He literally said .5 percent of cars. To what did you think he was referring?
Trying to help ya not look like an idiot here ...the VCR comparison was asinine.
I was the silent partner/investor in a small company that would go out and buy what we considered 'classic cars' and rehab them to sellable condition.
Usually we would answer ad's in Hemmings Magazine and check the car out and then do the rehab in our body/paint shop. Used to buy Vettes, Ferrari, Thunderbirds, some Z's, Mustangs and Austin Healy and MG's. Fun cars to drive around. But back then you could buy them cheap and find parts.
Usually we would answer ad's in Hemmings Magazine and check the car out and then do the rehab in our body/paint shop. Used to buy Vettes, Ferrari, Thunderbirds, some Z's, Mustangs and Austin Healy and MG's. Fun cars to drive around. But back then you could buy them cheap and find parts.
EVs are advanced tech. You may disagree. Fine. You've also probably never been behind the wheel of one.
EVs improve over time through software updates. Hence, considerably less depreciation. Sounds like advanced tech, no?
Classic cars and supercars apply to a miniscule fraction of the population. Who cares.
So why bring it up?
VCR analogy works perfectly fine. Dead technology goes extinct. Replaced by cheaper, more advanced tech.
The AVERAGE American will not be able to afford new EV's if they remain in the high 30's K for the base small models.
Understand that the MEDIAN age of ICE (not Border Patrol) cars on the road in America is now 11 years old, going older as recently it was 10 years. So the overall millions of vehicles ON the road is getting older not younger.
May have something to do with prior to Wuhan Virus the average American ONLY 40% had the necessary saved/available funds to pay, without credit card/financing an unexpected bill of $ 1,000.
Would you think that number has gotten better from social distancing and unemployment ?
Understand that the MEDIAN age of ICE (not Border Patrol) cars on the road in America is now 11 years old, going older as recently it was 10 years. So the overall millions of vehicles ON the road is getting older not younger.
May have something to do with prior to Wuhan Virus the average American ONLY 40% had the necessary saved/available funds to pay, without credit card/financing an unexpected bill of $ 1,000.
Would you think that number has gotten better from social distancing and unemployment ?
Because you brought up the topic of investment. The average commuter car isn't an investment. He pointed out the small group of vintage and rare cars that are an investment. And if ICEs phase out, it will add to those vehicles' allure.
Nothing like a VCR.
Would be easy to renew the law/limits.
"They" just changed the tax credit for installing solar power for individual homes back to 26 %, it was supposed to change to 22 % this year.
But that reduces tax revenue for paying for the exact thing buying a EV does, help the new green deal. We can't have that for normal Americans, or at least normal that can afford to go solar or EV.
"They" just changed the tax credit for installing solar power for individual homes back to 26 %, it was supposed to change to 22 % this year.
But that reduces tax revenue for paying for the exact thing buying a EV does, help the new green deal. We can't have that for normal Americans, or at least normal that can afford to go solar or EV.
I had a 220V outlet moved to my garage since the dryer is gas. You can even share a 220V outlet between the dryer and the EV - just can't dry clothes and charge the vehicle at the same time. For charging at home, it is easy to charge the vehicle overnight. Has never been an issue and charging at night generally means lower electrical costs.
I think a lot of folks can get by with a 110 outlet, realizing they may have to use a destination charger from time to time. The charger network is being built out quickly. Everyone knows about the Tesla supercharger network, but there are many others. I suggest checking Plugshare for chargers in your neighborhood.
On a different topic, one of the single greatest features of Telsa is emissions testing mode - now available on boombox (speaker outside the car).
This is all true - there are barriers to getting an EV. However, it is still early days. We will see a lot of new home builders installing 240v outlets in garages to attract home buyers. This is happening already in California. However, retrofitting electrical panels for older homes can be a major expense.
There is ONE Tesla supercharging station within 25 miles of me. About 7-10 miles away in the parking lot of an Italian restaurant. Under 10 stations, usually 3 or so are in use when I drive past.
What does it cost to plug in ? "They" say it takes about 1/2 hour to get a decent mileage charge ?
The issue is the degrading battery mileage range as the battery ages. So the longer you own the EV//Tesla the shorter your range between charges becomes.
What does it cost to plug in ? "They" say it takes about 1/2 hour to get a decent mileage charge ?
The issue is the degrading battery mileage range as the battery ages. So the longer you own the EV//Tesla the shorter your range between charges becomes.
Do ICE vehicles need to go away? I don't know, but that's the current popular trend with a lot of political and business capital being invested in it. So electrification is going to continue for a while simply due to the massive investments being made. Will it still be around for a long time or will it be replaced by something more efficient and less dependent upon finite raw materials? We'll see.
Several automobile manufacturers (along with some energy companies) are investing in e-fuel (or synthetic fuel) technology that will supposedly offer a net C02 reduction of 85% over gasoline. They are already entering testing phases w/the new fuel for motor racing. The goal is to produce a far cleaner fuel to be used with existing combustion engines and infrastructure (i.e. via existing gas stations).
Will that work out? Mercedes says no and isn't investing much, if anything, in it. Porsche, Audi, Mazda, Bentley and McLaren say they think so and are working towards it. Only time will tell how it will work out and what impact it might have in automotive trends. In Porsche's case, they don't think sythetic fuels will replace electrification, they see the newer, cleaner fuels as an additional way, along with EVs, to clean up emissions. Like with EVs, we'll have to wait and see.
Yes, motorsport tech filters down to consumer automotive tech. Motorsport in general, and especially F1, have consumer automotive relevance as a driving goal (no pun intended) in their car specifications. They need to do that in order to remain attractive to the major automotive manufacturers whom they want to compete in the various different motorsport leagues.
In particular, a ton of safety tech has evolved from lessons learned in motor racing. But also braking tech, aero tech, tire tech, lubrication tech, turbocharging tech, and hybridization tech.
You're arguing with yourself. I never said anything about EVs not being advanced tech.
You made an analogy using decades old tech of VCRs and flip-phones to represent internal combustion engine based automotive tech. That's a false analogy. ICE-base automotive tech is cutting edge technology, same as EV tech. You are confusing emissions impact with technological modernity. Just because a thing is not great for the environment doesn't mean it's not technologically advanced.
You are totally missing the point w/regards to classic cars and supercars and investments. You started all this by incorrectly claiming an EV is a better investment than an ICE. But EVs are no different than ICEs with respect to being good investments. Both types of cars are terrible investments because both are, with the very few exceptions I mentioned earlier, depreciating assets; not investments.
You want your EV to be an investment, buy a Tesla Roadster. Or buy a new Tesla and store it for 30 years in a climate controlled garage without ever driving it. Otherwise, it's not any kind of investment at all.