OT: EV tax credit

[mildone_rivals]

So why bring it up?
VCR analogy works perfectly fine. Dead technology goes extinct. Replaced by cheaper, more advanced tech.

No, it's a terrible analogy.

First, it's not dead yet. Vastly more people drive ICE cars than EV cars today. Are vastly more people using VCRs today?

You gave the example of software updates for EVs. You do realize that ICE cars can and do receive software updates all the time, right? Software updates are not a very good example of "advanced technology" seeing as how they've been around for decades.

Second, EVs are not cheaper. And they are certainly not more advanced than ICE cars which are advancing at a furious pace. They are two completely different technologies which are both advancing all the time and will continue to do so for at least the next couple decades, despite the shift towards electrification. And if the auto manufacturers who are investing in synthetic fuels succeed, ICEs will be around for a whole lot longer and will quite possibly reverse or at least slow the adoption of EVs.

I get that you like your EV. But you seem a little obsessed, almost defensive, about it.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Why would that matter for Tesla? They don’t qualify.

Because it may be reinstated for all. I would investigate this if Tesla is on your radar

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

No, it's a terrible analogy.

First, it's not dead yet. Vastly more people drive ICE cars than EV cars today. Are vastly more people using VCRs today?

You gave the example of software updates for EVs. You do realize that ICE cars can and do receive software updates all the time, right? Software updates are not a very good example of "advanced technology" seeing as how they've been around for decades.

Second, EVs are not cheaper. And they are certainly not more advanced than ICE cars which are advancing at a furious pace. They are two completely different technologies which are both advancing all the time and will continue to do so for at least the next couple decades, despite the shift towards electrification. And if the auto manufacturers who are investing in synthetic fuels succeed, ICEs will be around for a whole lot longer and will quite possibly reverse or at least slow the adoption of EVs.

I get that you like your EV. But you seem a little obsessed, almost defensive, about it.

ICE cars "advancing at a furious pace". In what universe?
This is futile. Best of luck

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

There is ONE Tesla supercharging station within 25 miles of me. About 7-10 miles away in the parking lot of an Italian restaurant. Under 10 stations, usually 3 or so are in use when I drive past.

What does it cost to plug in ? "They" say it takes about 1/2 hour to get a decent mileage charge ?

The issue is the degrading battery mileage range as the battery ages. So the longer you own the EV//Tesla the shorter your range between charges becomes.

I honestly don't know what the superchargers cost, but understand that to be about 1/4 the equivalent to the cost of gas.

In terms of battery degradation, I can only point to the warranty for my Telsa Model Y (Long Range): 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period. I've owned the Tesla for about 8 months and haven't noticed any degradation of the battery. My wife and I are careful, however, to charge only to 90%. Charging above 90% can reduce the battery effectiveness.

 

[BigWill]

I find it amusing that Tesla and their owners like to point out the travel range that Tesla uses for it's various models. Which is of course with a 100 % charge and no draws on the battery life from other uses like heat/ac and letting the battery go down to below a certain percentage

All of which reduce the advertised travel range before a charge MUST be done. Then unless you can find an open Supercharging station, usually along an Intersate Highway, you have to stop or an hour or two for a normal station charge, if a slot is open, and make sure you have the additional charging plugs to use if the male plug is different than the female plug on your Tesla.

Then Tesla likes to advertise the top end speed of over 120 MPH for the vehicle, which is anyone drives and get caught by Police YOU WILL LOSE YOUR DL. Your insurance rates will skyrocket to off set ANY SAVINGS from electricity purchased to charge the car for a gas car.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I find it amusing that Tesla and their owners like to point out the travel range that Tesla uses for it's various models. Which is of course with a 100 % charge and no draws on the battery life from other uses like heat/ac and letting the battery go down to below a certain percentage

All of which reduce the advertised travel range before a charge MUST be done. Then unless you can find an open Supercharging station, usually along an Intersate Highway, you have to stop or an hour or two for a normal station charge, if a slot is open, and make sure you have the additional charging plugs to use if the male plug is different than the female plug on your Tesla.

Then Tesla likes to advertise the top end speed of over 120 MPH for the vehicle, which is anyone drives and get caught by Police YOU WILL LOSE YOUR DL. Your insurance rates will skyrocket to off set ANY SAVINGS from electricity purchased to charge the car for a gas car.

The stated mileage for my Model Y is supposedly around 350 miles, which I agree is probably BS. The mileage, though, is well in line with my Nissan Murano, and that is plenty good enough. who drives even 200 miles day?

There are plenty of charging stations - and Telsa and other companies are building charging stations like crazy. Worst case scenario is a full charge on a road trip will be under an hour. You also don't understand the entertainment possibilities of the Tesla. Loads of games and things to do while waiting.

 

[BigWill]

I am I admit a crusty old man/guy.

When I want to drive somewhere, I want to get there with all dispatch, figuring in traffic and how far I am driving. For example when I lived in Manasquan our camp near Lake Placid was around 350 miles one way. If we wanted to go for the weekend, it was necessary to leave NJ so that we would arrive in the Albany area BEFORE 4 PM and the State Office buildings emptied and they put the Northway into stop and go conditions. Then we would continue unabated to our exit and gas up in 5 minutes and arrive at camp before dark so we could boat over the lake to camp. (no roads to the camp). There are NO Supercharges in the Adirondack State Park, a Park that is the largest park in the USA and larger than several States alone or combined.

Drive to Illinois, 850 miles. Expedition Diesel 11 hours, full tank leave 10 PM Fri night. Gas us Columbus Ohio for 5 minutes and snacks. Arrive Champaign Ill 9 AM. Check into hotel, shower and game at Noon.

I don't play games on my anything. I want to go and get there ASAP, without getting stopped.

I admit that now round about driving for errands and ice cream cones an EV would work fine, better than a gas MV.

Range "envy" is still an issue, until battery tech evolves or more stations and charging times are added and reduced.

Price will keep them out of the hands of the majority of Americans.

 

[Jtung230]

Because it may be reinstated for all. I would investigate this if Tesla is on your radar

You really think the government is going to help a 700 billion company to sell cars?

 

[mildone_rivals]

This is futile. Best of luck

Finally, you’ve made an accurate statement. Woo hoo!

Yes, buying an EV (or any other ordinary car) as an investment is indeed futile and one who does so will require the very best of luck.

 

[fsg2_rivals]

I find it amusing that Tesla and their owners like to point out the travel range that Tesla uses for it's various models. Which is of course with a 100 % charge and no draws on the battery life from other uses like heat/ac and letting the battery go down to below a certain percentage

All of which reduce the advertised travel range before a charge MUST be done. Then unless you can find an open Supercharging station, usually along an Intersate Highway, you have to stop or an hour or two for a normal station charge, if a slot is open, and make sure you have the additional charging plugs to use if the male plug is different than the female plug on your Tesla.

Then Tesla likes to advertise the top end speed of over 120 MPH for the vehicle, which is anyone drives and get caught by Police YOU WILL LOSE YOUR DL. Your insurance rates will skyrocket to off set ANY SAVINGS from electricity purchased to charge the car for a gas car.

Those things aren't unique to Tesla. In fact, other automakers advertise top speed far more, given that EVs have modest speed numbers.

Top ranges are now over 500 miles. That's enough for most anyone's day.

 

[BigWill]

You really think the government is going to help a 700 billion company to sell cars?

Their flying illegal immigrants for free to free hotels, while we are told not to fly or visit other States, why wouldn't they extend a tax credit ?

 

[Section124]

There is ONE Tesla supercharging station within 25 miles of me. About 7-10 miles away in the parking lot of an Italian restaurant. Under 10 stations, usually 3 or so are in use when I drive past.

What does it cost to plug in ? "They" say it takes about 1/2 hour to get a decent mileage charge ?

The issue is the degrading battery mileage range as the battery ages. So the longer you own the EV//Tesla the shorter your range between charges becomes.

I thought Woodbury Commons had a good number.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I find it amusing that Tesla and their owners like to point out the travel range that Tesla uses for it's various models. Which is of course with a 100 % charge and no draws on the battery life from other uses like heat/ac and letting the battery go down to below a certain percentage

All of which reduce the advertised travel range before a charge MUST be done. Then unless you can find an open Supercharging station, usually along an Intersate Highway, you have to stop or an hour or two for a normal station charge, if a slot is open, and make sure you have the additional charging plugs to use if the male plug is different than the female plug on your Tesla.

I've owned a Tesla for almost 2 years, and I have never experienced anything like the situation you're describing. Your imaginary scenarios are not reality.

 

[Section124]

The stated mileage for my Model Y is supposedly around 350 miles, which I agree is probably BS. The mileage, though, is well in line with my Nissan Murano, and that is plenty good enough. who drives even 200 miles day?

There are plenty of charging stations - and Telsa and other companies are building charging stations like crazy. Worst case scenario is a full charge on a road trip will be under an hour. You also don't understand the entertainment possibilities of the Tesla. Loads of games and things to do while waiting.

From my house to Hunter Mountain is 110 miles each way. I usually do day trips when skiing locally. I would consider an EV, but not sure I trust the ranges at this point until charging stations are more common. I assume the ski areas would install them at some point, but can't see that happening en mass for at least 10 years.

 

[BigWill]

I've owned a Tesla for almost 2 years, and I have never experienced anything like the situation you're describing. Your imaginary scenarios are not reality.

Then take a drive today ! Drive from your house, wherever that may be in NJ. Take the GSP to the NY Thruway, drive to the exit past Albany for the Northway. Drive North to the Pottersville exit. Take the exit to Long Lake, take the right to Tupper Lake. You are now out of juice.

 

[Jtung230]

Their flying illegal immigrants for free to free hotels, while we are told not to fly or visit other States, why wouldn't they extend a tax credit ?

You may be right. After all, they gave these companies a nice tax cut while my SALT deduction are capped at 10k.

 

[Pils86]

The wife got a Model Y dual motor about six months ago (sorry Belly, sister-in-law has had a Model S for years so the referral had to stay in the family). Happy that we were able to get the $5K credit from the state, although still waiting for the check due to state not having Model Y's in their database at first and state slow playing the check, and we were in before the price increase and no sales tax. Annoyed Tesla's are not able to get the fed tax credit, I think it is insane that successful American EV companies like Tesla and Chevy do not get tax credits because they were successful yet we give tax credits on foreign EV's.

The wife loves the car. Went with blue with black wheels, people comment. She is frequently on the phone for work and stops to talk, so no idling costs, and her work is local so EV driving where EV's most efficient, definitely cut energy costs in half if not more. We charge between 20 - 80 percent to keep the battery from stressing. If I wanted to take it on a long trip I would fully charge and get the 324 mile range but we would probably just take our Pilot. No oil and filter changes, no air filters, no spark plugs, don't need to haul around a battery and starter that are dead weight after starting the car. Great technology, had fun doing karaoke recently on a drive. Can watch TV on the screen when charging or waiting in the car. Super acceleration and tight steering.

One thing I don't like is the charger is on the back driver side, should be on the front where most people would charge at home in their garage or next to their house. To get the stated range the tires are inflated over 40 PSI so ride might be harsh for some. Back seats would be tight shoulder room for three full size adults. Kind of need to get used to looking down where you used to see and dash and seeing nothing, must glance right for the screen. Spent $350 for the 240V home charger on Amazon, will charge 20 - 80 percent in about 5 hours. Been very happy overall.

 

[BigWill]

Note, that I am NOT arguing the technology within the Tesla, some models.

They are expensive, especially when you pick the long range option available for some models.
Too expensive for middle income Americans at this time.

When some of them come on the market that are the age of the MEDIAN age of 11 that is what ALL mv's in the USA are currently, what will their residual value be ? What will the battery reliability be ? What will the body look like with rust if any ? In other words what will be their USED car value.

Not to mention places like NYC area where Cuomo has forecast closing Nuke Power plants that provide 25 % of the current electric power needs of NYC. Currently there is NO other means of bringing power to NYC thru the existing power grid. So it is likely that brown outs could become a regular event like in California.

Where will the electric power come from REQUIRED to charge the battery ?

 

[fsg2_rivals]

Note, that I am NOT arguing the technology within the Tesla, some models.

They are expensive, especially when you pick the long range option available for some models.
Too expensive for middle income Americans at this time.

When some of them come on the market that are the age of the MEDIAN age of 11 that is what ALL mv's in the USA are currently, what will their residual value be ? What will the battery reliability be ? What will the body look like with rust if any ? In other words what will be their USED car value.

Not to mention places like NYC area where Cuomo has forecast closing Nuke Power plants that provide 25 % of the current electric power needs of NYC. Currently there is NO other means of bringing power to NYC thru the existing power grid. So it is likely that brown outs could become a regular event like in California.

Where will the electric power come from REQUIRED to charge the battery ?

You're not really arguing at all. Just kind of blathering on.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

From my house to Hunter Mountain is 110 miles each way. I usually do day trips when skiing locally. I would consider an EV, but not sure I trust the ranges at this point until charging stations are more common. I assume the ski areas would install them at some point, but can't see that happening en mass for at least 10 years.

a new Telsa could make the trip, but I would worry about battery performance in cold weather. I Just looked it up - there is a Level 2 Charge Point charger at Hunter Mountain in the parking lot.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Then take a drive today ! Drive from your house, wherever that may be in NJ. Take the GSP to the NY Thruway, drive to the exit past Albany for the Northway. Drive North to the Pottersville exit. Take the exit to Long Lake, take the right to Tupper Lake. You are now out of juice.

I'll never be out of charge. You put your destination into the car, and the car tells you where and when to stop, and for how long. You don't need to think. This sounds like something right up your alley.

As for our electric grid being able to handle the transition to EVs...This isn't happening overnight. The charging infrastructure is growing along with EV adoption. Solar and wind, combined with stationary storage is now cheaper than natural gas. Electric power is going to become decentralized, cheaper, and more reliable. These things are happening right now, and they are accelerating. I suggest you take a moment to learn about what's going on.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Then take a drive today ! Drive from your house, wherever that may be in NJ. Take the GSP to the NY Thruway, drive to the exit past Albany for the Northway. Drive North to the Pottersville exit. Take the exit to Long Lake, take the right to Tupper Lake. You are now out of juice.

Exactly. Not to mention his ever-increasing stress level about the rapidly depleting battery and having to locate a charging station, while otherwise being completely bored.

I totally get the desire and value of buying an EV for going from point A to point B in comfort and relative quietness. And I enjoy a burst of low end torque as much as the next gear-head. Once charging infrastructure and range have improved, I might get an SUV EV for getting around.

But when just heading out for a long aimless drive through remote mountainous areas, I don’t want to be thinking about charging stations and driving gently to preserve the battery charge. I want the total immersion that only comes with manual shifting, ideally using a clutch, and the rumbles, whines, burbles and screams of a high revving combustion engine.

Plenty of people feel the same way, which is one of the reasons Porsche and others are working so hard on synthetic fuels in addition to electrification. They understand that future owners want both kinds of cars, for different purposes.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Exactly. Not to mention his ever-increasing stress level about the rapidly depleting battery and having to locate a charging station, while otherwise being completely bored.

I totally get the desire and value of buying an EV for going from point A to point B in comfort and relative quietness. And I enjoy a burst of low end torque as much as the next gear-head. Once charging infrastructure and range have improved, I might get an SUV EV for getting around.

But when just heading out for a long aimless drive through remote mountainous areas, I don’t want to be thinking about charging stations and driving gently to preserve the battery charge. I want the total immersion that only comes with manual shifting, ideally using a clutch, and the rumbles, whines, burbles and screams of a high revving combustion engine.

Plenty of people feel the same way, which is one of the reasons Porsche and others are working so hard on synthetic fuels in addition to electrification. They understand that future owners want both kinds of cars, for different purposes.

More incorrect assumptions. I've never stressed once about battery life or range.

 

[tom1944]

With the average family in the country earning a family income of around 70,000 until there is a EV used car market with 10-15k cars available they will not be widespread

 

[mildone_rivals]

More incorrect assumptions. I've never stressed once about battery life or range.

Uh-huh. I totally believe you. No, really.

 

[BigWill]

You're not really arguing at all. Just kind of blathering on.

Why would I argue, i have facts and personal experience versus conjecture and green new deal wokeness.

 

[BigWill]

I'll never be out of charge. You put your destination into the car, and the car tells you where and when to stop, and for how long. You don't need to think. This sounds like something right up your alley.

As for our electric grid being able to handle the transition to EVs...This isn't happening overnight. The charging infrastructure is growing along with EV adoption. Solar and wind, combined with stationary storage is now cheaper than natural gas. Electric power is going to become decentralized, cheaper, and more reliable. These things are happening right now, and they are accelerating. I suggest you take a moment to learn about what's going on.

You have no experience with the electric grid system in the USA and especially in this local grid.

I do or did as the National VP of Sales for a company that sprung out of the deregulation of energy producers in this regional grid.

Solar and wind don't make electric power more reliable, they make it LESS RELIABLE.

Nuke power generation is the CHEAPEST way to generate electricity at this time. (note I said 'generate' not ROI.)

 

[mildone_rivals]

With the average family in the country earning a family income of around 70,000 until there is a EV used car market with 10-15k cars available they will not be widespread

They will get cheaper pretty soon as more and more manufacturers provide them in greater quantities. Unless maybe Lithium producers (continue to) play games trying to inflate the price of Lithium, creating an artificial short supply.

I think it will be interesting to see if some other type of fuel, besides gas, electricity, hydrogen, or the synthetic fuel manufacturers are working on (related to hydrogen, but apparently not hydrogen exactly) will surface as a cheaper, more efficient, alternative that relies only on cheap, easily produced renewable sources.

 

[BigWill]

Exactly. Not to mention his ever-increasing stress level about the rapidly depleting battery and having to locate a charging station, while otherwise being completely bored.

I totally get the desire and value of buying an EV for going from point A to point B in comfort and relative quietness. And I enjoy a burst of low end torque as much as the next gear-head. Once charging infrastructure and range have improved, I might get an SUV EV for getting around.

But when just heading out for a long aimless drive through remote mountainous areas, I don’t want to be thinking about charging stations and driving gently to preserve the battery charge. I want the total immersion that only comes with manual shifting, ideally using a clutch, and the rumbles, whines, burbles and screams of a high revving combustion engine.

Plenty of people feel the same way, which is one of the reasons Porsche and others are working so hard on synthetic fuels in addition to electrification. They understand that future owners want both kinds of cars, for different purposes.

Once a safe way to store Hydrogen on a mv becomes available BOTH the current ICE AND/BOTH EV methods of transportation will become obsolete.

I guess I shouldn't mention the day I met Elon at the Milk Building downtown. It was about 10 years ago and he was showcasing the Sporster or whatever it was called. IIRC it was 85 K. Only issue was that I couldn't get into it with a shoehorn. He was impressive with where he thought the industry could grow IF he could keep it funded.

 

[mildone_rivals]

This is what a real car sounds like... way more exciting than that vacuum cleaner noise emanating from a Tesla.

I could watch this video for hours, the sounds along with the massive cornering grip and insane braking performance on display.

No “advanced“ technology here, amirite @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap? Just a VCR or a flip phone on wheels.

 

[fsg2_rivals]

Why would I argue, i have facts and personal experience versus conjecture and green new deal wokeness.

More like cliches, generalities, anecdotes and tangents.

No one's trying to convince you to buy an EV. Incidentally, the OP is interested in one, however.

 

[fsg2_rivals]

They will get cheaper pretty soon as more and more manufacturers provide them in greater quantities. Unless maybe Lithium producers (continue to) play games trying to inflate the price of Lithium, creating an artificial short supply.

I think it will be interesting to see if some other type of fuel, besides gas, electricity, hydrogen, or the synthetic fuel manufacturers are working on (related to hydrogen, but apparently not hydrogen exactly) will surface as a cheaper, more efficient, alternative that relies only on cheap, easily produced renewable sources.

I think new battery tech will be the breakthrough over new fuel. That, plus more renewables for the grid.

But who really knows.

 

[mildone_rivals]

I think new battery tech will be the breakthrough over new fuel. That, plus more renewables for the grid.

But who really knows.

My bet is on the flux capacitor.

 

[Jtung230]

My bet is on the flux capacitor.

Giving up teleportation?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

You have no experience with the electric grid system in the USA and especially in this local grid.

I do or did as the National VP of Sales for a company that sprung out of the deregulation of energy producers in this regional grid.

Solar and wind don't make electric power more reliable, they make it LESS RELIABLE.

Nuke power generation is the CHEAPEST way to generate electricity at this time. (note I said 'generate' not ROI.)

I said solar and/or wind + stationary storage.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

They will get cheaper pretty soon as more and more manufacturers provide them in greater quantities. Unless maybe Lithium producers (continue to) play games trying to inflate the price of Lithium, creating an artificial short supply.

I think it will be interesting to see if some other type of fuel, besides gas, electricity, hydrogen, or the synthetic fuel manufacturers are working on (related to hydrogen, but apparently not hydrogen exactly) will surface as a cheaper, more efficient, alternative that relies only on cheap, easily produced renewable sources.

There is no lithium shortage. An EV battery pack uses very little lithium, and lithium is abundant. No current bottleneck in lithium production either.
The main component of a battery is the cathode. Cathode materials are mainly either nickel or iron. Much smaller amounts of manganese, phosphate, aluminum, or cobalt can be incorporated into the chemistry depending on the intended use of the cell. Of these materials, nickel is the rarest.
The current bottleneck in batteries is production. Suppliers like LG, CATL, Panasonic, and Tesla are all rapidly scaling production. And yes, battery prices are on a declining cost curve.

Synthetic fuels are not cost competitive at the moment. Not even close. And it remains to be seen if they are scalable. Then you have to consider production, infrastructure, and transportation. All continuous costs. There's a giant nuclear reactor in the sky supplying free energy. Solar and/or wind + stationary storage is the future. Production and installation. No ongoing costs. Scalable, local, reliable, and cheap.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Sounds like one step up two steps back for the environment. Those pushing EV have no idea how much energy must be consumed to prepare battery grade lithium. And that energy is not coming from battery power--it's coming from diesel engines, which emit large amounts of nitrous oxides.

" mining for lithium is an extractive industry whose activities inevitably have impacts on the environment. Interestingly, the technologies and processing methods sound quite a bit like those deployed in the coal mining and oil drilling/fracking businesses."

"In general, the process entails removing the mineral material from the earth then heating and pulverizing it.
The crushed mineral powder is combined with chemical reactants, such as sulfuric acid, then the slurry is heated, filtered, and concentrated through an evaporation process to form saleable lithium carbonate, while the resulting wastewater is treated for reuse or disposal."

Exactly. China is the worlds biggest pollution source. Lets not emulate disaster.

 

[mildone_rivals]

There is no lithium shortage. An EV battery pack uses very little lithium, and lithium is abundant. No current bottleneck in lithium production either.
The main component of a battery is the cathode. Cathode materials are mainly either nickel or iron. Much smaller amounts of manganese, phosphate, aluminum, or cobalt can be incorporated into the chemistry depending on the intended use of the cell. Of these materials, nickel is the rarest.
The current bottleneck in batteries is production. Suppliers like LG, CATL, Panasonic, and Tesla are all rapidly scaling production. And yes, battery prices are on a declining cost curve.

Synthetic fuels are not cost competitive at the moment. Not even close. And it remains to be seen if they are scalable. Then you have to consider production, infrastructure, and transportation. All continuous costs. There's a giant nuclear reactor in the sky supplying free energy. Solar and/or wind + stationary storage is the future. Production and installation. No ongoing costs. Scalable, local, reliable, and cheap.

I never said there was a Lithium shortage, I said Lithium producers have been playing games, i. e. dragging their feet on new mining, and may continue to do so while the price of Lithium is so low. And I wasn’t talking about today, I was talking about the future when production and sales of EVs has increased from the relatively small fraction it is today to maybe 50%. There are a number of factors that can affect Lithium availability, which could in turn affect price, and then inflate the cost of EVs.

Oil and natural gas are plentiful too. But didn’t prevent a gasoline shortage at one time, did it?

 

[DJ Spanky]

Solar and wind don't make electric power more reliable, they make it LESS RELIABLE.

Nuke power generation is the CHEAPEST way to generate electricity at this time. (note I said 'generate' not ROI.)

The problem, though, is that the subsidies for solar and wind has driven the price down to equal to or below nuclear, resulting in nuclear plants being sunsetted, especially in California.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I never said there was a Lithium shortage, I said Lithium producers have been playing games, i. e. dragging their feet on new mining, and may continue to do so while the price of Lithium is so low. And I wasn’t talking about today, I was talking about the future when production and sales of EVs has increased from the relatively small fraction it is today to maybe 50%. There are a number of factors that can affect Lithium availability, which could in turn affect price, and then inflate the cost of EVs.

Oil and natural gas are plentiful too. But didn’t prevent a gasoline shortage at one time, did it?

Lithium won't be a problem.