OT: Hiroshima 75 Years Ago

[mdk02]

I would be very interested to hear your responses to the facts presented in this thread regarding how the Japanese were treated. Did you read them?
By the way, I am not a MAGA guy.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[BigWill]

The Russian winter played a part also

One of the more telling scenes in the movie "Band of Brothers", was when Lt Winter's men were moving East in trucks and thousands of German POW's were marching West and one horse drawn cart with German POW's were riding. One of our men yelled out; "General Motors ! "

NOTHING had ever been seen in the world prior to the ramping up of American manufacturing might.

 

[BigWill]

Russia lost 17 million soldiers in WW2. When were they sitting on the sideline? They lost more than everyone combined.

Are you counting the Russian soldiers executed by the Russian secret police in the Army purges just prior to WW2 ordered by Stalin or the starvation of the population in the Ukraine again ordered by Stalin ?

Does that include the Gulags in Siberia before, during and after WW2 or the work camps AFTER WW2 populated by German POW's that weren't repatriated back to Germany till 1955 ?

There were 3 men responsible for the deaths of maybe 200 Million people in the 1930-1955; Mao, Stalin, Hitler. It is likely that is in order of most deaths first. There can be some argument on how many deaths in WW2 are directly attributed to either man and their respective culpability before, during and after hostilities.

 

[MadRU]

If we were such a racist nation why didn’t we just nuke Korea and Vietnam?

 

[BigWill]

Here is what I think:

The Japanese knew they couldn't win a military victory. But they believed they could win a war of attrition. They firmly believed that their willingness to withstand losses far exceeded ours. They dug in and waited for the inevitable invasion, in which they would kill a whole lot of Americans. Eventually the Americans would tire of it and negotiate a peace satisfactory to Japan.

The massive American bombing, both conventional and atomic, did not negate this objective. The USSR's entry into the war did.

You LAST sentence is so false it negates any thoughts you may have.

 

[BigWill]

what’s the difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp?

Showers that kill people and ovens that turn corpses into ash.

 

[BigWill]

Racism/xenophobia, I think. Don't have any other explanation. By the 1940's, German-Americans were just plain Americans. Japanese-Americans were not.

Because FDR wasn't strong enough as a moral man, nor strong enough politically, to stand alone and refuse to imprison Japanese-Americans.

One time that he refused to listen Eleanor's sense of fairness and civil rights for all Americans.

Clearly the worst decision in America since Lincoln suspended several protected American freedoms during the Civil War.

 

[BigWill]

My point overall is that the bomb would not have been dropped on a white country just as a white immigrant group, however loathed by Americans, would never end up in a concentration camp here. It’s not a coincidence or mere happenstance is all I’m saying.

Unfortunately all you are saying is racially incorrect and I may even say is reverse racism....

 

[mdk02]

I would be very interested to hear your responses to the facts presented in this thread regarding how the Japanese were treated. Did you read them?
By the way, I am not a MAGA guy.

Just a reminder, do not let him change the subject like he tried to do with the Biden post. That way he can get this thread locked before he has to respond to your question.

 

[BigWill]

That was genius of Stalin to make that treaty. Up until Germany invaded Poland the allies did squat about German aggression. They complained about it and did nothing.

It is sometimes useful to be in debate with people on this site. Usually they have knowledge or experience that is useful or experiences that can be discussed or used.

Others are either too ill-informed or so incorrect in their limited beliefs, so as to be worthless to communicate with, you Sir are one of these.

Since I assume you neither know what a Higgins boat was nor did you research how many were built, where, and how many were needed for amphibious landings around the World.

I shudder to tell you to research the number of British fighter aircraft in Britain in 1939 that were Spitfires or Hurricanes and the number of experienced Pilots that could fly those planes.

 

[BigWill]

This was Mussolini's fault. The Italians totally screwed up the invasion Greece and Hitler had to pull his nuts out of the fire. Hitler needed to secure his southern flank before Barbarossa. The few weeks that were used on Greece led to a later date for the invasion and cost the Germans come winter.

Don't forget the failure of the Italian army in Africa and then Sicily and Italy that bled German forces as well. The worst Ally you could have, Italy.

 

[tico brown]

My point overall is that the bomb would not have been dropped on a white country just as a white immigrant group, however loathed by Americans, would never end up in a concentration camp here. It’s not a coincidence or mere happenstance is all I’m saying.

:ThumbsUp

 

[mdk02]

:ThumbsUp

You certainly have a right to your opinion, but do have anything to back it up besides a thumbs up?

 

[BigWill]

And does that change the accuracy of the facts we present?

My Dad got his Masters in Far Eastern History from Harvard, many years after his BA from RU. I was in History at Syracuse till I concentrated on the NFL, which like the NJSP later in life, wasn't keen on intellect.

But he's mainly known at Harvard for tossing another student down the Library steps for having a pony tail and being barefoot upon entering the lobby. Dress codes meant something to Dad.

 

[BigWill]

My point is that most of your guys are career suburban blowhard know it alls who never did **** but read books or watch it on TV.

I did 'read' about a year ago that "The Greatest Generation" were dying at around the rate of 5,000 a day.

So those ladies and gentlemen are mostly gone now, to our detriment.

 

[e5fdny]

You certainly have a right to your opinion, but do have anything to back it up besides a thumbs up?

I have a calendar.

 

[Colbert17!]

My Dad got his Masters in Far Eastern History from Harvard, many years after his BA from RU. I was in History at Syracuse till I concentrated on the NFL, which like the NJSP later in life, wasn't keen on intellect.

But he's mainly known at Harvard for tossing another student down the Library steps for having a pony tail and being barefoot upon entering the lobby. Dress codes meant something to Dad.

Your Dad sounds like someone I would have liked to have a beer with.:Beers:

 

[chrisru99]

Are you counting the Russian soldiers executed by the Russian secret police in the Army purges just prior to WW2 ordered by Stalin or the starvation of the population in the Ukraine again ordered by Stalin ?

Does that include the Gulags in Siberia before, during and after WW2 or the work camps AFTER WW2 populated by German POW's that weren't repatriated back to Germany till 1955 ?

There were 3 men responsible for the deaths of maybe 200 Million people in the 1930-1955; Mao, Stalin, Hitler. It is likely that is in order of most deaths first. There can be some argument on how many deaths in WW2 are directly attributed to either man and their respective culpability before, during and after hostilities.

Mao made Stalin and Hitler look like amateurs. The pure evil that Mao inflicted is never talked about anywhere as far as I can see and it’s the bigger atrocity because they were killed in such a bigger number. Don’t get me wrong what was done by Stalin and Hitler is every bit as evil but Mao takes the cake. I wonder why

 

[Colbert17!]

It is sometimes useful to be in debate with people on this site. Usually they have knowledge or experience that is useful or experiences that can be discussed or used.

Others are either too ill-informed or so incorrect in their limited beliefs, so as to be worthless to communicate with, you Sir are one of these.

Since I assume you neither know what a Higgins boat was nor did you research how many were built, where, and how many were needed for amphibious landings around the World.

I shudder to tell you to research the number of British fighter aircraft in Britain in 1939 that were Spitfires or Hurricanes and the number of experienced Pilots that could fly those planes.

Will,
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Higgins boat didn't even exist in 1941 and despite what we see in the movies a lot of them were made from wood and not metal?

 

[Colbert17!]

Mao made Stalin and Hitler look like amateurs. The pure evil that Mao inflicted is never talked about anywhere as far as I can see and it’s the bigger atrocity because they were killed in such a bigger number. Don’t get me wrong what was done by Stalin and Hitler is every bit as evil but Mao takes the cake. I wonder why

During the Cultural Revolution in the late 60's, well after Mao came to power, some estimate that up to 20,000,000 people were killed in what basically was a party purge.

 

[mdk02]

Mao made Stalin and Hitler look like amateurs. The pure evil that Mao inflicted is never talked about anywhere as far as I can see and it’s the bigger atrocity because they were killed in such a bigger number. Don’t get me wrong what was done by Stalin and Hitler is every bit as evil but Mao takes the cake. I wonder why

Depends how you count. Do ascribe, beyond the Holocost, the WWII dead in Europe to Hitler? How many in the Ukraine were effectively killed by Stalin during the collectivization of farming in addition to the purges? And of course you have the Cultural Revolution under Mao. I think it's safe to say the count under each reaches 8 figures.

 

[KingHigh]

But killing them in the millions with conventional weapons was ok? If we were racist we would have had black, asian and latino troops storming the beaches.

Blacks and Latinos weren't allowed to fight along side of whites back then, but we weren't racist.

 

[KingHigh]

If we were such a racist nation why didn’t we just nuke Korea and Vietnam?

They are being poisoned to this day

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC193378/

 

[Doctor Worm]

Racism is not binary. Some this board appear to think that if an entity (be it a person, group, or nation) is not 100% racist, than it isn't racist.

In the 1940's we were as a society a whole lot less racist than we were pre-Civil War. We are now a whole lot less racist than we were in the 1940's. But we still have quite a way to go.

 

[KingHigh]

Unfortunately all you are saying is racially incorrect and I may even say is reverse racism....

Are you taking the position that the United States wasn’t racist in 1940?

 

[chrisru99]

Blacks and Latinos weren't allowed to fight along side of whites back then, but we weren't racist.

If you can assume anything is that racism is alive and well in 2020. You can certainly deduct the attitude that white is right from just being part of this message board. It’s defended ferociously in subtle ways by many posters. Things are changing slowly of course but things are changing and guess what many of the changes are A ok. I see it in many places even in my little part of the world of New Providence NJ.

 

[Kbee3]

If you can assume anything is that racism is alive and well in 2020. You can certainly deduct the attitude that white is right from just being part of this message board. It’s defended ferociously in subtle ways by many posters. Things are changing slowly of course but things are changing and guess what many of the changes are A ok. I see it in many places even in my little part of the world of New Providence NJ.

So, so true.

 

[mdk02]

Racism is not binary. Some this board appear to think that if an entity (be it a person, group, or nation) is not 100% racist, than it isn't racist.

In the 1940's we were as a society a whole lot less racist than we were pre-Civil War. We are now a whole lot less racist than we were in the 1940's. But we still have quite a way to go.

Indeed racism is not binary. I'd phrase it that if there is any racism, now or in the 40's, it does follow that a country is 100% racist.

But once again the subject of this thread is trying to be changed from Hiroshima.

 

[ashokan]

The most potent racism in US is coming from the left - as they seek to defame white people and militate against them. Black racism has become particularly and its openly seeking to overturn the country and seek to militate as white people, males heteronormals etc. Its easy to see all this too (if you're honest)

Americans Say Blacks More Racist Than Whites, Hispanics, Asians

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...acks_more_racist_than_whites_hispanics_asians

 

[mdk02]

The most potent racism in US is coming from the left - as they seek to defame white people and militate against them. Black racism has become particularly and its openly seeking to overturn the country and seek to militate as white people, males heteronormals etc. Its easy to see all this too (if you're honest)

Americans Say Blacks More Racist Than Whites, Hispanics, Asians

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...acks_more_racist_than_whites_hispanics_asians

Against not relevant to Hiroshima.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Are you taking the position that the United States wasn’t racist in 1940?

Strawman alert, strawman alert!

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Strawman alert, strawman alert!

How sad it must be to be baiting people on a message board

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

The most potent racism in US is coming from the left - as they seek to defame white people and militate against them. Black racism has become particularly and its openly seeking to overturn the country and seek to militate as white people, males heteronormals etc. Its easy to see all this too (if you're honest)

Americans Say Blacks More Racist Than Whites, Hispanics, Asians

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...acks_more_racist_than_whites_hispanics_asians

There are racists in every group of peoples

Racism falls more along politics in today's American society, not skin color or ancestry

The Left is abhorrently racist, it's disgusting

 

[BigWill]

Will,
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Higgins boat didn't even exist in 1941 and despite what we see in the movies a lot of them were made from wood and not metal?

Correct;
We had an old one at my high school on Thompson's Island in Boston harbor. It had no motor or machine guns left. We used it to move large objects onto and off the island. Like cows (we had a dairy farm on the island) and vehicles. Lash it to the boat we normally used to come and go off the island.

Basically floating plywood.

 

[Doctor Worm]

The most potent racism in US is coming from the left - as they seek to defame white people and militate against them. Black racism has become particularly and its openly seeking to overturn the country and seek to militate as white people, males heteronormals etc. Its easy to see all this too (if you're honest)

Americans Say Blacks More Racist Than Whites, Hispanics, Asians

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...acks_more_racist_than_whites_hispanics_asians

Your premise: A poll of predominantly white Americans, conducted by the right-leaning Rasmussen Reports, finds that they believe that blacks are more racist than whites.

Your conclusion: Therefore, blacks are more racist than whites.

Mmm-kay.

 

[KingHigh]

Strawman alert, strawman alert!

What’s the strawman? A poster literally said we were not a racist country in 1940. That’s not strawman. That’s just...man.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Your premise: A poll of predominantly white Americans, conducted by the right-leaning Rasmussen Reports, finds that they believe that blacks are more racist than whites.

Your conclusion: Therefore, blacks are more racist than whites.

Mmm-kay.

I agree with you that every poll is flawed

 

[BigWill]

Your Dad sounds like someone I would have liked to have a beer with.:Beers:

He was 'fond' of martini's, very dry with onions..

One day I had stopped at Eggiman's in Spring Lake Heights for a brew/burger with some NJSP classmates as the Academy had let us out for the weekend.

There was Dad sitting at the bar with a martini.

This would be unremarkable if I was around 5 since Eggiman's was a favorite watering hole of Dad's. Many an hour I had spent sitting at the corner stool of the bar with a Shirley Temple in front of me.

The remarkable thing was I was 27 and he and Mom were living in Brick at the time and he had NO idea I was stopping at Eggiman's on my way home to Bloomfield.

 

[ashokan]

Your premise: A poll of predominantly white Americans, conducted by the right-leaning Rasmussen Reports, finds that they believe that blacks are more racist than whites.

Your conclusion: Therefore, blacks are more racist than whites.

Mmm-kay.

Its one of the 3 best polling outfits in the nation (even predicted Trump win). Its not just whites. As a matter of fact, the many local immigrants fear black people and dont like them - and vice versa (well not the fear part).

 

[BigWill]

The US did round up some German and Italian Americans. It's a shame our history books leave out the complete story. They were treated much more fairly than Japanese Americans however.

Mary Anne's Mom and Dad came from around Munich in the depression to the US. She came to Syracuse to work for a Jewish couple as a maid. He came as a carpenter and they met in English class as part of their US citizenship requirements. Both families had put together all their available funds for the ship passage to the US. We still have the wooden case he brought his clothing and tools to the US.

They married and returned to Germany for a visit, just prior to WW 2. While in Munich, Hitler drove by, they didn't give the Nazi salute and were immediately arrested by the Gestapo and brought to the Munich Gestapo HQ. They showed their USA Passports and those got them released with the warning to "Leave immediately and don't come back !". They left and never returned till 1955.

He was the second Son in his family and the first was ticketed to take the ship to the US. That Son changed his mind and her Dad took his place as the next Son in line. He traveled with the first Brother's name. His Brother was killed at Stalingrad.