OT: Hiroshima 75 Years Ago

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Mary Anne's Mom and Dad came from around Munich in the depression to the US. She came to Syracuse to work for a Jewish couple as a maid. He came as a carpenter and they met in English class as part of their US citizenship requirements. Both families had put together all their available funds for the ship passage to the US. We still have the wooden case he brought his clothing and tools to the US.

They married and returned to Germany for a visit, just prior to WW 2. While in Munich, Hitler drove by, they didn't give the Nazi salute and were immediately arrested by the Gestapo and brought to the Munich Gestapo HQ. They showed their USA Passports and those got them released with the warning to "Leave immediately and don't come back !". They left and never returned till 1955. His Brother was killed at Stalingrad.

Something to look forward to here if Antifa overtakes power

 

[BigWill]

Once again you're obfuscating by creating a straw man to knock down. Nobody on this thread said racism didn't exist in the 40's. We just provided facts that contradicted the narrative you wanted to create. And considering Trump wasn't even alive when these events occurred, bringing him into this discussion is merely another distraction to draw attention away from the fact that your narrative was factually incorrect.

Slavery existed LONG before the Western Hemisphere was known to exist. Slavery still exists in parts of the world. The United States is the only Country where as many as 750,000 soldiers were killed to end the infamy.

 

[mdk02]

What’s the strawman? A poster literally said we were not a racist country in 1940. That’s not strawman. That’s just...man.

A country with no racism or a country that was not 100% racist? I don't recall anyone saying there was no racism. But congratulations, you have succeeded in changing the subject of this thread. You certainly were getting schooled on Hiroshima.

 

[mdk02]

Slavery existed LONG before the Western Hemisphere was known to exist. Slavery still exists in parts of the world. The United States is the only Country where as many as 750,000 soldiers were killed to end the infamy.

Correct. But there was still racism in this country.

 

[BigWill]

Yes, books and American flags

Bibles and American flags.

What would have happened to those kids if it was The Quran ?

 

[BigWill]

Correct. But there was still racism in this country.

Find me a Country where there wasn't racism at some point in it's history or where it still doesn't exist. This is a problem of humanity not the United States.

The United States is where non-citizens DIE all the time attempting to enter our borders for the freedoms we allow and take for granted.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Bibles and American flags.

What would have happened to those kids if it was The Quran ?

We know that answer

 

[KingHigh]

A country with no racism or a country that was not 100% racist? I don't recall anyone saying there was no racism. But congratulations, you have succeeded in changing the subject of this thread. You certainly were getting schooled on Hiroshima.

We were a country with laws prohibiting black people from schooling, bussing, eating, serving and marrying with white people....there were enforced deed restriction on property prohibiting sale of homes to black and Asian people...and you are still arguing that we were not a racist country? What more would you need in order to be convinced?

 

[BigWill]

Its one of the 3 best polling outfits in the nation (even predicted Trump win). Its not just whites. As a matter of fact, the many local immigrants fear black people and dont like them - and vice versa (well not the fear part).

Red Sox fans (idiots) hate Yankee fans is that racist.

Eagles fans hate all other fans is that racist.

Or can we all agree that Eagle and Red Sox fans are idiots ......

 

[BigWill]

We were a country with laws prohibiting black people from schooling, bussing, eating, serving and marrying with white people....there were enforced deed restriction on property prohibiting sale of homes to black and Asian people...and you are still arguing that we were not a racist country? What more would you need in order to be convinced?

Now we have a President that is openly funding Historically Black Universities, allowing bussing to charter schools, reducing minorities reliance of food stamps for food, and hires African Americans and Women. Found a way to have more home ownership for African Americans and Hispanics than at ANY time in American history.

Versus a man that is quoted as saying he didn't want his children on the same buses with "savages". was the best friend of the KKK Grand Wizard, and restricted the filing of bankruptcy to help his credit card company in his State.

 

[KingHigh]

Now we have a President that is openly funding Historically Black Universities, allowing bussing to charter schools, reducing minorities reliance of food stamps for food, and hires African Americans and Women. Found a way to have more home ownership for African Americans and Hispanics than at ANY time in American history.

Versus a man that is quoted as saying he didn't want his children on the same buses with "savages". was the best friend of the KKK Grand Wizard, and restricted the filing of bankruptcy to help his credit card company in his State.

You don't need to convince me. Institutional racism is a liberal property.

 

[mdk02]

We were a country with laws prohibiting black people from schooling, bussing, eating, serving and marrying with white people....there were enforced deed restriction on property prohibiting sale of homes to black and Asian people...and you are still arguing that we were not a racist country? What more would you need in order to be convinced?

Those existed in some states but not nationally. And these restrictions have been removed throughout our history, sometimes in fits and starts, but always in one direction.

The Alinsky is strong in this one Yoda.

 

[KingHigh]

Those existed in some states but not nationally. And these restrictions have been removed throughout our history, sometimes in fits and starts, but always in one direction.

The Alinsky is strong in this one Yoda.

I know Yoda, but not alinsky. I presume he is an opinion maker for liberal lemmings?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I'm glad you admit racism existed in the 1940s. No white country would have been nuked. No white people would have been rounded up.

Have you gone insane?

The people working on THE BOMB expected it to be used against Germany. They were in a race with Germany to get the bomb first. And when the European war was about over.. many of them did not want the bomb to be used at all.

Hell yes a "white country" would have been nuked. Same for Russia.. that's who the large, large nuclear arsenal was to be used against. Still is, I suppose.

And when MacArthur wanted it used against the Chinese invading North Korea, Truman said no. Are Chinese a protected race compared to Japanese?

As for rounding up the Japanese Americans.. we had been attacked and it was suspected the Japanese-Americans on Hawaii had spied for Japan. Hell yes that was racist.. but was it a reasonable suspicon.. a reasonable move? The west coast was not invaded and we won.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Will,
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Higgins boat didn't even exist in 1941 and despite what we see in the movies a lot of them were made from wood and not metal?

Correct;
We had an old one at my high school on Thompson's Island in Boston harbor. It had no motor or machine guns left. We used it to move large objects onto and off the island. Like cows (we had a dairy farm on the island) and vehicles. Lash it to the boat we normally used to come and go off the island.

Basically floating plywood.

Yep, they were made of wood with some armor, but not much. Higgins actually made earlier models in the late 30's, but they didn't have the front loading ramp, personnel and equipment exited from the side. In 1939-1940, the Marines or Navy showed him the landing craft the Japanese were using with front loading ramps, and he modified his model to have that. I think he originally produced working models in 1941. But it wasn't until 1942, when we went on a war footing, that the military actually started spending money to ramp up our supplies.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Blacks and Latinos weren't allowed to fight along side of whites back then, but we weren't racist.

THAT you are right about. Took a long while to get there.. but there were a lot o fblack soldiers relegated largely to support roles.. many of which had risk of life.. (with under 1000 actual deaths... so very low).

This wiiki page has a lot of stats...

About 9.6% of all inductions during the war years were African Americans. Largely toward the end of the war when we wanted every able-bodied man.

In 1940 census, the nation was 9.8% black so, clearly, they did their share and they would have fought if allowed to. The Tuskegee Airman's war record probably served to prove.. at least to Truman.. that they would and could fight. He signed an order to integrate the Army in 1948. And black soldiers and marines fought well in Korea, thus proving Trump correct. and Eisenhower , a President from the other party, doubled -down on Truman's move.

WWII lead to the integrated military which helped achieve equality in the long run and within 60 years every single member of the military would serve under and salute a black Commander-in-Chief.

 

[mdk02]

THAT you are right about. Took a long while to get there.. but there were a lot o fblack soldiers relegated largely to support roles.. many of which had risk of life.. (with under 1000 actual deaths... so very low).

This wiiki page has a lot of stats...

About 9.6% of all inductions during the war years were African Americans. Largely toward the end of the war when we wanted every able-bodied man.

In 1940 census, the nation was 9.8% black so, clearly, they did their share and they would have fought if allowed to. The Tuskegee Airman's war record probably served to prove.. at least to Truman.. that they would and could fight. He signed an order to integrate the Army in 1948. And black soldiers and marines fought well in Korea, thus proving Trump correct. and Eisenhower , a President from the other party, doubled -down on Truman's move.

WWII lead to the integrated military which helped achieve equality in the long run and within 60 years every single member of the military would serve under and salute a black Commander-in-Chief.

Not as well publicised as the Tuskegee Airmen were the 761st Tank Batallion and 353rd Field Artillery Batallion who saw action in Europe after D-Day And performed well. Truman had more ammunition.

 

[DJ Spanky]

He was 'fond' of martini's, very dry with onions.. One day I had stopped at Eggiman's in Spring Lake Heights for a brew/burger with some NJSP classmates as the Academy had let us out for the weekend. There was Dad sitting at the bar with a martini. This would be unremarkable if I was around 5 since Eggiman's was a favorite watering hole of Dad's. Many an hour I had spent sitting at the corner stool of the bar with a Shirley Temple in front of me. The remarkable thing was I was 27 and he and Mom were living in Brick at the time and he had NO idea I was stopping at Eggiman's on my way home to Bloomfield.

That's a great story. And it's ironic, because Tyler was dressing up on Thursday to go to school to get his senior class picture, and an incident popped into my head which I related to him. Very early 90's, I was at my first job with a company in Fort Lee, Kwasha Lipton, whose building was the last one before you crossed the GWB. Anyway, we were installing a client-server system at Chemical Bank down in the financial district - very cutting edge at the time - I know it was 91 or 92 because they had just merged with Manny Hanny. So we made frequent trips down there working out requirements, training people, etc. One day I'm out for lunch with my team, and we're heading down to the South Street Seaport. As we're walking, someone touches me on the arm. I turn around, and there's my dad, going out to lunch with his colleagues. That's just something I will never forget.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Slavery existed LONG before the Western Hemisphere was known to exist. Slavery still exists in parts of the world.

I'm still waiting for Egypt to tear down the pyramids.

 

[Caliknight]

Have you gone insane?

The people working on THE BOMB expected it to be used against Germany. They were in a race with Germany to get the bomb first. And when the European war was about over.. many of them did not want the bomb to be used at all.

Hell yes a "white country" would have been nuked. Same for Russia.. that's who the large, large nuclear arsenal was to be used against. Still is, I suppose.

And when MacArthur wanted it used against the Chinese invading North Korea, Truman said no. Are Chinese a protected race compared to Japanese?

As for rounding up the Japanese Americans.. we had been attacked and it was suspected the Japanese-Americans on Hawaii had spied for Japan. Hell yes that was racist.. but was it a reasonable suspicon.. a reasonable move? The west coast was not invaded and we won.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

 

[Doctor Worm]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

I find it appalling that you so-called intelligent RU alumni are so ignorant about US history. What did you guys major in, Primitive Cultures?

 

[mdk02]

I find it appalling that you so-called intelligent RU alumni are so ignorant about US history. What did you guys major in, Primitive Cultures?

Hey, I sat next to Fawn Liebowitz in Primitive Cultures.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Slavery existed LONG before the Western Hemisphere was known to exist. Slavery still exists in parts of the world. The United States is the only Country where as many as 750,000 soldiers were killed to end the infamy.

The North did not fight the Civil War to end slavery. They did so to preserve the Union. The North was quite willing to allow the continuance of slavery where it was already practiced. They were opposed to its expansion into the territories.

The South, on the other hand, seceded and attacked a Federal military base (War of Southern Aggression!) not only to preserve slavery, but to expand it further.

How the future of slavery in the US would have played out had the South not seceded, is an intriguing question. But then, I am easily intrigued.

 

[BigWill]

Yep, they were made of wood with some armor, but not much. Higgins actually made earlier models in the late 30's, but they didn't have the front loading ramp, personnel and equipment exited from the side. In 1939-1940, the Marines or Navy showed him the landing craft the Japanese were using with front loading ramps, and he modified his model to have that. I think he originally produced working models in 1941. But it wasn't until 1942, when we went on a war footing, that the military actually started spending money to ramp up our supplies.

Everything on the boat we had, a real Higgins boat, was plywood, EXCEPT the front ramp. (the machine gun shields were gone.)

It was so shallow draft that we would beach it on sand at an outgoing tide, then lower the ramp and drive out the dairy cows or drive off the car/pickup onto terra firma. Tide at that part of Boston harbor were around 10-12 feet depending on the tide schedule.

 

[Caliknight]

I find it appalling that you so-called intelligent RU alumni are so ignorant about US history. What did you guys major in, Primitive Cultures?

Having a 0.0 GPA did lead to a high ranking government position and a hot wife so don’t be too concerned Worm.


You find everything appalling lol.

 

[BigWill]

You don't need to convince me. Institutional racism is a liberal property.

What I am attempting to convince you of is that the United States is constantly evolving from the BETTER Country in the World, to the attempt to be the BEST Country in the World.

One where that has more immigrants in a year than the REST of the world combined....Why ?......because we offer the most freedom and chance for greatness/safety/education/health/future than any other Country.

 

[BigWill]

THAT you are right about. Took a long while to get there.. but there were a lot o fblack soldiers relegated largely to support roles.. many of which had risk of life.. (with under 1000 actual deaths... so very low).

This wiiki page has a lot of stats...

About 9.6% of all inductions during the war years were African Americans. Largely toward the end of the war when we wanted every able-bodied man.

In 1940 census, the nation was 9.8% black so, clearly, they did their share and they would have fought if allowed to. The Tuskegee Airman's war record probably served to prove.. at least to Truman.. that they would and could fight. He signed an order to integrate the Army in 1948. And black soldiers and marines fought well in Korea, thus proving Trump correct. and Eisenhower , a President from the other party, doubled -down on Truman's move.

WWII lead to the integrated military which helped achieve equality in the long run and within 60 years every single member of the military would serve under and salute a black Commander-in-Chief.

A friend of mine and teammate at Manlius, his Father went from enlisted man to Lt Col in WW 2. Both he and his Brother went to West Point. He played football and started for Army for 3 years (frosh didn't play varsity.) He too retired as a Lt Col.

Only memorable thing about this; He was African American.....

 

[Kbee3]

The North did not fight the Civil War to end slavery. They did so to preserve the Union. The North was quite willing to allow the continuance of slavery where it was already practiced. They were opposed to its expansion into the territories.

The South, on the other hand, seceded and attacked a Federal military base (War of Southern Aggression!) not only to preserve slavery, but to expand it further.

How the future of slavery in the US would have played out had the South not seceded, is an intriguing question. But then, I am easily intrigued.

Back in my youth....long, long ago...I came across a paperback book with the title If The South Had Won The Civil War. Unfortunately, someone borrowed it and never returned it.
Spoiler alert.....things ended up pretty much the same

 

[Doctor Worm]

Back in my youth....long, long ago...I came across a paperback book with the title If The South Had Won The Civil War. Unfortunately, someone borrowed it and never returned it.
Spoiler alert.....things ended up pretty much the same

Interesting. Wikipedia has a Cliff's Notes version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_the_South_Had_Won_the_Civil_War

The major long-term difference in this alternate reality is that the Alaska Purchase never happens and Alaska remains under Russian control, which has Cold War implications.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I find it appalling that you so-called intelligent RU alumni are so ignorant about US history. What did you guys major in, Primitive Cultures?

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

 

[dconifer0]

Having a 0.0 GPA did lead to a high ranking government position and a hot wife so don’t be too concerned Worm.


You find everything appalling lol.

Is it possible that our friend Dr. Worm did not catch the "Germans/Pearl Harbor" popular culture reference-based joke?

 

[mdk02]

Is it possible that our friend Dr. Worm did not catch the "Germans/Pearl Harbor" popular culture reference-based joke?

Wrong. He got it.

 

[Caliknight]

Is it possible that our friend Dr. Worm did not catch the "Germans/Pearl Harbor" popular culture reference-based joke?

More than possible. It happened.

I’m sure he will claim he was being facetious after looking like a dope.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Is it possible that our friend Dr. Worm did not catch the "Germans/Pearl Harbor" popular culture reference-based joke?

Yeah, I did. Hence my "Primitive Cultures" reference, which in the movie was followed by a closeup of Otis Day singing scat. Would never happen today, and understandably so. But that was then and this is now.

 

[Doctor Worm]

More than possible. It happened.

I’m sure he will claim he was being facetious after looking like a dope.

No need to apologize. I won't see it.

 

[Knightmoves]

Hey, I sat next to Fawn Liebowitz in Primitive Cultures.

When I was at RU a popular opening line in a bar with a Douglass woman was to ask her if she was an Animal Husbandry major. Better give a toothy grin after asking the young damsel that question, ha!

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

The North did not fight the Civil War to end slavery. They did so to preserve the Union. The North was quite willing to allow the continuance of slavery where it was already practiced. They were opposed to its expansion into the territories.

The South, on the other hand, seceded and attacked a Federal military base (War of Southern Aggression!) not only to preserve slavery, but to expand it further.

How the future of slavery in the US would have played out had the South not seceded, is an intriguing question. But then, I am easily intrigued.

Well.. really.. the North was willing to fight over slavery.. that's why they opposed slavery in new territories and states. If they didn't give a crap about slavery in the south they would have allowed half the new territories to allow slavery. The Northern REPUBLICANS forced the issue. And when Southern Dems and Northern Dems, together, couldn't keep slavery in the new territories by beating Lincoln that caused the secession.. the War.. and the end of slavery.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Well.. really.. the North was willing to fight over slavery.. that's why they opposed slavery in new territories and states. If they didn't give a crap about slavery in the south they would have allowed half the new territories to allow slavery. The Northern REPUBLICANS forced the issue. And when Southern Dems and Northern Dems, together, couldn't keep slavery in the new territories by beating Lincoln that caused the secession.. the War.. and the end of slavery.

Bingo! You know more history than Worm, congrats.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

Did you know the British were almost the ones to drop the bomb?



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