OT - Deer Rifle
- Thread starter Ridgeland Dog
- Start date
As an avid hunter and reloader, allow me to present another consideration:
OP, what kind of hunting will he be doing? 2-300 yard shots across bean fields and the like? I'd look at one of the previously mentioned calibers. Small, fast bullet where drop is minimal over longer distances. Possibly in a compact version for reasons mentioned later.
***OR***
If his local hunting conditions are like mine (hunting in woods, hills, etc) where the longest shot is maybe 150 yards, then while all of the high velocity rounds mentioned above can certainly do the job, you are not limited to them.
I grew up hunting (as a left hander) with a bolt action 270. It wasn't until I was about 30 that I wanted to try something different. I traded that .270 for a left-handed 30-06 and loved it. Still, however, I realized that I was hunting with a 300 yard gun and a 3-9x scope and 95% of my shots were on deer at 40-100 yards. I was hunting with 3x the rifle that I really needed. On top of that, I was hunting out of box blinds and walking through woods and the long barrel on my rifle was always kind of unwieldy to poke through the window on the box, or was snagging on branches in the thick stuff, or whatever. So I wanted to try something else again.
If your son is left-handed, or you just want a more ambidextrous option, or you don't want a bunch of your meat bloodshot from the cavitation caused by high velocity rifle rounds, and you hunt in closer quarters (up to 150 yds or so), then consider a lever action rifle like a 30-30. Recoil is less than most if not all of the aforementioned calibers and the 30-30 has been killing em dead for over 100 years. With a slower moving heavier bullet, less meat is bloodshot and you can "eat right up to the hole". Lever actions are easier to maneuver with in the woods and in a stand than standard bolt action rifles with 22-24" barrels, although if you are set on a bolt action rifle, you may appreciate the youth or compact versions for maneuverability even for a grownup.
You could consider a Marlin 336 in 30-30 or even a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. Many hunt with a 357 magnum rifle but I wouldn't try taking a deer with one beyond 60-75 yards. There is something cool about hunting with a lever action rifle. I intend to do a lot of my hunting this year with my Marlin 336 Texan (30-30 with 18.5" barrel and straight stock) and cast bullets.
At some point, popping a deer at 40-75 yards with a 270, a 308, or -God forbid, a 7mm Magnum- begins to feel like using a hammer instead of a flyswatter.
OP, what kind of hunting will he be doing? 2-300 yard shots across bean fields and the like? I'd look at one of the previously mentioned calibers. Small, fast bullet where drop is minimal over longer distances. Possibly in a compact version for reasons mentioned later.
***OR***
If his local hunting conditions are like mine (hunting in woods, hills, etc) where the longest shot is maybe 150 yards, then while all of the high velocity rounds mentioned above can certainly do the job, you are not limited to them.
I grew up hunting (as a left hander) with a bolt action 270. It wasn't until I was about 30 that I wanted to try something different. I traded that .270 for a left-handed 30-06 and loved it. Still, however, I realized that I was hunting with a 300 yard gun and a 3-9x scope and 95% of my shots were on deer at 40-100 yards. I was hunting with 3x the rifle that I really needed. On top of that, I was hunting out of box blinds and walking through woods and the long barrel on my rifle was always kind of unwieldy to poke through the window on the box, or was snagging on branches in the thick stuff, or whatever. So I wanted to try something else again.
If your son is left-handed, or you just want a more ambidextrous option, or you don't want a bunch of your meat bloodshot from the cavitation caused by high velocity rifle rounds, and you hunt in closer quarters (up to 150 yds or so), then consider a lever action rifle like a 30-30. Recoil is less than most if not all of the aforementioned calibers and the 30-30 has been killing em dead for over 100 years. With a slower moving heavier bullet, less meat is bloodshot and you can "eat right up to the hole". Lever actions are easier to maneuver with in the woods and in a stand than standard bolt action rifles with 22-24" barrels, although if you are set on a bolt action rifle, you may appreciate the youth or compact versions for maneuverability even for a grownup.
You could consider a Marlin 336 in 30-30 or even a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. Many hunt with a 357 magnum rifle but I wouldn't try taking a deer with one beyond 60-75 yards. There is something cool about hunting with a lever action rifle. I intend to do a lot of my hunting this year with my Marlin 336 Texan (30-30 with 18.5" barrel and straight stock) and cast bullets.
At some point, popping a deer at 40-75 yards with a 270, a 308, or -God forbid, a 7mm Magnum- begins to feel like using a hammer instead of a flyswatter.
buy him whatever caliber you have, that way you can all use the shells. Also, unless he's going to be a contract sniper, don't blow a bunch of money on a scope and rifle, you can get what you need for under $500. My oldest is a southpaw, so I had to order his Savage from Dicks in Flowood, don't do that, it was a **** show.
amen-you know of what you speak. A 30-06 can go 110 grain to a 220 grain. Never will you have a problem finding ammo. I have tracked more deer shot with a 270 than any other caliber. My Brother says when you buy a 270 they give you a flashight and a tracking dog. 308 if you want a short action, would be a-ok.
never could figure why a 25-06's ammo should cost more than a 30-06---it is just a necked down 30-06. I have a 25-06 and it is a death merchant.
I have had a 700 BDL-25-06 that I shot for years-but out of the blue it started firing when you took it off safety or if you just bolted it. I put a timney trigger in. Don't trust it--put in a new trigger.
So a .270 loses the deer more than any other caliber, but a 25-06 is a death merchant? You realize there is about 0.02" difference in bullet diameter, and usually about 10 grains of difference in projectile weight? (120 gr 25-06 vs 130 gr 270).
I have owned and killed plenty of deer with both and they are both wildcats of the 30-06 cartridge. In my mind they're extremely similar cartridges - to the point that if you have one, you don't need the other one. Very similar cartridges.
I have owned and killed plenty of deer with both and they are both wildcats of the 30-06 cartridge. In my mind they're extremely similar cartridges - to the point that if you have one, you don't need the other one. Very similar cartridges.
I have owned both. Why does the 270 kick and the 2506 doesn't. Just with my experience tracking deer. 80% of the time it is a 270. You can kill a deer with a 22 but most people can't shoot good enough. I've been hunting since the 50s and I also can't explain why the 270 sucks, it just does.
The 270 has killed everything from prairie dogs to elephants. If you aren't killing deer with a 270 the problem is not the cartridge. I hunt deer and pigs with a 6.8 SPC which is essentially a 270 lite. Never lost a deer. Only lost a few pigs and mostly because I didn't look for them. I've seen big pigs run even after hits from a 50 BMG and 458 SOCOM. Nothing fights harder to stay alive than a big wild pig.
Anybody saying one cartridge is better than another Is dumb as a box of rocks. Bullets kill, not headstamps.
From a quick look at the responses, most on here just need a rifle which they can feed from a quick stop at Walmart and be done with it. And that's OK ... Right up until they start giving advice.
From a quick look at the responses, most on here just need a rifle which they can feed from a quick stop at Walmart and be done with it. And that's OK ... Right up until they start giving advice.
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I killed a lot of deer with a 30-06 and 150-grain bullets. The only gun I killed more deer with was a single shot Mossberg 12 gauge. The place I hunted with early in life was extremely heavy wooded and most shots were within 40 yards while still hunting. Never used a stand till I was in my 30's and lost access to the place afore mentioned.
I too neglected to mention the 30-30. The lever action 30-30 (Winchester or Marlin) is an excellent rifle from around 100 yards on in, and I have taken many deer with one. The only drawback is getting comfortable with the hammer.
As for the 7 mag being overkill, I disagree. Where I hunt, mature bucks go well over 200 and a doe I took a few years back went 155. While I am not a distance shooter, it is also a very good extended range caliber. And please, leave the assault rifles at home when you go to the woods. If the need to be Rambo is that intense, join the Army and become a Grunt. Fort Benning is lovely in the summer heat.
As for the 7 mag being overkill, I disagree. Where I hunt, mature bucks go well over 200 and a doe I took a few years back went 155. While I am not a distance shooter, it is also a very good extended range caliber. And please, leave the assault rifles at home when you go to the woods. If the need to be Rambo is that intense, join the Army and become a Grunt. Fort Benning is lovely in the summer heat.
The lawsuit is legit. It wasn't just Farmer Brown having issues. Faulty military and police department rifles are the reason the lawsuit exists. Even Remington has admitted that they had a trigger design that allowed this to happen. Remington fans are a lot like Ole Miss fans right now. If you change the trigger, the Remington is a good rifle. If you don't change the trigger, it's a walking liability. If the gun goes off when you close the bolt at the range, meh...no harm, no foul as long as you are otherwise following safety procedures. When you are a sniper in Iraq and that happens out in the field there's a whole different set of consequences.
Do you understand the definition of "assault rifle"? Do you understand how financially difficult it is to obtain an "assault rifle"? Do you realize how ignorant and uneducated you look to people that actually understand these things? Do the rest of us a favor and worry about what guns you want to own and quit worrying about the guns we choose to own. If you want to beat on your shoulder with a 7mm Mag because it makes you feel better, that's quite okay. I'm not going to tell you that your rifle doesn't belong in the woods of Mississippi. You think along the lines of Jim Zumbo and most people that follow outdoors media know what happened to Zumbo because he couldn't adapt to the modern hunting scene.
My biggest whitetail was 243 lbs. (Mississippi). Killed it with a bow. My grandfather used to hunt with a 22Mag back in the day. Shot em in the ear, he thought a 30-30 was too much gun.
I have killed a pile of deer with my 7Mag. If you want it, go for it. But you don't need it. It'll hit hard at 350 yards. Anything closer, and you can do with a lot less. It'll have a 26" barrel and need to weigh over 10 lbs or it'll kick hard (physics are simple). If you walk much, it starts to feel like a street light.
AR is an awesome platform (AR10 is the model that'll shoot .308 ). Simple, reliable. It's just a semi-Auto, only black and plastic (so scary). My buddy uses an AR10 in 308 for his kids. It has an adjustable stock so it'll fit them good. It has a bull barrel, so the weight eliminates much recoil. The pistol grip is easier on little hands. His 7 year old shoots it well, shot first deer at 110 yards! These cats that act like an AR requires some military function watch too much tv.
I have killed a pile of deer with my 7Mag. If you want it, go for it. But you don't need it. It'll hit hard at 350 yards. Anything closer, and you can do with a lot less. It'll have a 26" barrel and need to weigh over 10 lbs or it'll kick hard (physics are simple). If you walk much, it starts to feel like a street light.
AR is an awesome platform (AR10 is the model that'll shoot .308 ). Simple, reliable. It's just a semi-Auto, only black and plastic (so scary). My buddy uses an AR10 in 308 for his kids. It has an adjustable stock so it'll fit them good. It has a bull barrel, so the weight eliminates much recoil. The pistol grip is easier on little hands. His 7 year old shoots it well, shot first deer at 110 yards! These cats that act like an AR requires some military function watch too much tv.
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Bingo. Spot on in every detail. The AR-15/10 is the most popular rifle in America right now for probably the eighth straight year for a litany of reasons. It is accurate, reliable and more than any other rifle on the planet, versatile. There's an awful lot of misconceptions out there about the AR-15 and unfortunately, thought there's a cure for ignorance, most people prefer to just stay infected with it.
Holy crap this feels so defensive it could come from Hugh Freeze himself. To each his own but let's not act like an AR 15 isn't out of place when it comes to hunting.
Kind of like showing up to a baseball game with a softball bat. Yeah it can get the job done but it's just not the same. And you should really expect the strange looks and comments on it.
That's kinda like your opinion and stuff...
There are more and more AR-15s/10s entering the woods than ever before. You do realize that literally every, single hunting rifle in use today was based on a military firearm at some point don't you? Your bias is not based on fact, but on perception. Show me what your Savage Model 10 can do that my SCAR-17 can't do. I would bet money that my SCAR is more accurate than your Browning BAR and I would say the same about my AR-10 vs your BAR. Performance wise, my rifles aren't "out of place" at all. You just have a bias against them because they look different than the traditional "hunting rifles". Try making your argument with less emotion and more fact if you want me to take you seriously.
There are more and more AR-15s/10s entering the woods than ever before. You do realize that literally every, single hunting rifle in use today was based on a military firearm at some point don't you? Your bias is not based on fact, but on perception. Show me what your Savage Model 10 can do that my SCAR-17 can't do. I would bet money that my SCAR is more accurate than your Browning BAR and I would say the same about my AR-10 vs your BAR. Performance wise, my rifles aren't "out of place" at all. You just have a bias against them because they look different than the traditional "hunting rifles". Try making your argument with less emotion and more fact if you want me to take you seriously.
I'm going to start deer hunting in the southeast with a 300 blackout. I've never even shot at a deer further than 200 yards (granted I mostly bow hunt). I'm simply going to build an AR upper with a silencer and an adjustable gas block that I can let out all the way. I'll shuck the next shell manually to make it as quiet as possible. I'll probably do an 18 inch barrel to give a little better accuracy.
It has drawbacks. It's not as accurate as bolt guns, but that goes for all semi-autos. It's expensive for a deer rifle.
I prefer a bolt action. But to act like it's something menacing, or different than a Remington 7400 is just uninformed.
Just a suggestion, but you'll see little to no difference in accuracy and velocity between a 16" and 18" barrel in 300 BLK and a 16" is much more handy in a deer stand and getting in and out of a vehicle once you screw a suppressor on the front of it. And really, no reason in shutting off your gas block and limiting yourself to a straight-pull bolt action. The deer won't hear the action noise over the sound of the shot and you'look have a quick follow-up shot if needed.
I'be got ARs that I will put up against any common bolt action hunting rifle. The bolt action is inherently more accurate because it has fewer moving parts, but the military isn't bringing in semi auto sniper rifles because they aren't accurate. Also, the price of a mid-grade AR is pretty similar to a Browning X-Bolt these days.
I've killed a lot of deer with 270 and I love it's versatility. I have an old
Interarms and it is the most accurate rifle I've ever shot. Deer usually run a few yards granted when struck by a 270 but I can't ever recall losing a deer with my 270. My son on the other hand lost two very nice bucks in his youth shooting a 7mm08, I don't like them.
I game my son my treasured 270 and he has had no problems since and I have moved to the 7 mag I bought my beloved dad as a Xmas president when I got my first job after college. 7Mag don't play.
Interarms and it is the most accurate rifle I've ever shot. Deer usually run a few yards granted when struck by a 270 but I can't ever recall losing a deer with my 270. My son on the other hand lost two very nice bucks in his youth shooting a 7mm08, I don't like them.
I game my son my treasured 270 and he has had no problems since and I have moved to the 7 mag I bought my beloved dad as a Xmas president when I got my first job after college. 7Mag don't play.
The new ballistic tip rounds are even accurate out to 200 yards now. I grew up using a .270, but out of a desire to shoot something else I have switched to a 30-30. Dead on at 150. I don't get too many shots longer than that. Dropped one just shy of 200 yards last year with it.
My only complaint about it, compared to some of the others, is a 30-30 is heavy.
My only complaint about it, compared to some of the others, is a 30-30 is heavy.
.308 hands down no other argument for your purpose (ok that's a little much) but if it will solely be a deer rifle I don't see any reason not to get a .308. It's probably the most popular caliber in the US, you will never have trouble finding ammo whether that be practice or hunting rounds, and it's not going anywhere. I've never cared for .270 but it is a great flat shooting round. I just prefer the .308. I've taken deer in .243, .308, 30-06, .223, and 9.3x62 but practically speaking 9/10 times I'm grabbing one of my .308 rifles. Get him a Remington 700, Tikka Forrester, Ruger M77, or hell even an AR-10 and slap a Leupold VX2 3-9x40 on it and he is good to deer hunt in MS for the rest of his life. PM me if you want.
All true. But in general, the AR isn't as accurate. It was designed with the average draftee in mind that had no experience for its simplicity and reliability.
They used to be $900, but demand has driven that down a lot.
Honestly, I don't like to hunt deer with them, but that's probably because they're so dang ugly.
But they are practical, and they are the perfect truck gun for pigs and coyotes.
Meh. It makes a difference with the sound and powder burn. I took a 12, 16, and 18'' out for a spin and the 18'' barrel was definitely more quiet (all with the same can). I could easily tell the difference with my ****** hearing. I'm not saying it was significantly more quiet, but it was certainly noticeable. There was also less blow back and smut with the longer barrel.
I know it's splitting hairs, but I want my hunting setup to be as quiet as possible because...I can.
I know it's splitting hairs, but I want my hunting setup to be as quiet as possible because...I can.
Obviously, this is a philosophical discussion, so I'll expound on another angle:
Speed kills. The mammal body is comprised of approximately 60% water. The faster a projectile hits that body, the more violent the shockwave that is created. That shockwave creates massive tissue damage. Certainly, ballistics and bullet design play a role which gets complicated pretty quick. The deer is a relatively small animal, so penetration is not important like it is with bears, moose, etc. This is why the faster bullets (243, 260, 25-06, 7mag, etc) are such good whitetail calibers.
I learned this lesson shooting deer with 243. I used to use bullets designed for penetration, usually in 100 grains around 2,900 feet per second. I noticed that the bullet entered and exited so fast that there was very little bullet expansion. The wound channel was little more than 1/4" wide with an exit wound about the same size. This deer bled very little and ran at least 100 yards. Recovery was a problem. The wound was akin to shooting it with a field point on an arrow.
I switched to a smaller, faster ballistic tip or soft point that had rapid expansion, I prefer 80 grains in the 243 traveling upwards of 3,000 feet per second. Ever since, I have not had a deer run 20 yards and most drop to the ground.
What is happening is that heavy bullet zips right through and the tissue absorbs little of the energy. Most of the bullet energy is absorbed into the ground or tree behind the deer. That ballistic tip is expanding or exploding and 100% of that energy is absorbed into tissue. There is usually no exit. That shockwave destroys tissue about 5" instead of 1/4", and the spinal cord is usually destroyed.
Having said all of that, I still mostly shoot a 308 which is not terribly fast. I'm complicated.
Speed kills. The mammal body is comprised of approximately 60% water. The faster a projectile hits that body, the more violent the shockwave that is created. That shockwave creates massive tissue damage. Certainly, ballistics and bullet design play a role which gets complicated pretty quick. The deer is a relatively small animal, so penetration is not important like it is with bears, moose, etc. This is why the faster bullets (243, 260, 25-06, 7mag, etc) are such good whitetail calibers.
I learned this lesson shooting deer with 243. I used to use bullets designed for penetration, usually in 100 grains around 2,900 feet per second. I noticed that the bullet entered and exited so fast that there was very little bullet expansion. The wound channel was little more than 1/4" wide with an exit wound about the same size. This deer bled very little and ran at least 100 yards. Recovery was a problem. The wound was akin to shooting it with a field point on an arrow.
I switched to a smaller, faster ballistic tip or soft point that had rapid expansion, I prefer 80 grains in the 243 traveling upwards of 3,000 feet per second. Ever since, I have not had a deer run 20 yards and most drop to the ground.
What is happening is that heavy bullet zips right through and the tissue absorbs little of the energy. Most of the bullet energy is absorbed into the ground or tree behind the deer. That ballistic tip is expanding or exploding and 100% of that energy is absorbed into tissue. There is usually no exit. That shockwave destroys tissue about 5" instead of 1/4", and the spinal cord is usually destroyed.
Having said all of that, I still mostly shoot a 308 which is not terribly fast. I'm complicated.
If you're going for the most quiet setup skip the AR altogether. Get one of the many bolt action .300 blackout rifles out there with an Omega on the end. I have a ruger American in that setup and it's whisper quiet. The 220 grain bullets hitting the target is the most noticeable sound heard.