This Orlando shooting is sickening...

[KeyserSoze1999]

The lawmakers don't know about them (10-22 rifles), so they are legal for now.

Sort of like the Taurus Judge or Taurus Public Defender revolvers---they can fire shotgun rounds (4-10 pellets or 4-10 slugs) and have a barrel less than 2 inches long. Seems like these revolvers would fall into the illegal Sawed Off Shotgun category if a lawmaker knew of there existence---however, as of today they can be legally bought in the USA.

 

[engie]

Fix the border -- rather than inviting the free trade of black market/non-taxed goods in the country in order to secure illegal votes -- let's see ANY semblance of limitations happening there -- then we can have an honest conversation about "gun control" and anything else on the liberal agenda. Until that happens, the right is going to be unwilling to do anything. That's the great hypocrisy in the "control" mindset anyway from the people promoting it.

It's still the same argument as last time on here. MS banned pseudoephedrine. It slowed down the number of GOB meth labs in the state being busted(mainly for being idiots marking themselves buying pills legally over the counter while being tracked). Probably less actual cooking going on here. It did not slow the use of meth. Therefore, it did not slow the sell of meth. Now, instead of good ole boys in rural Rankin County, you have Mexican cartel ice. You are no longer dealing with rookies -- you are dealing with pros -- with a much more potent and dangerous substance.

Any time you create such a market -- you can expect the cartel to fill the need. The same would be true for assault rifles or any such weapons they banned until you take steps to limit illegal trade. Take those steps then we can start having honest conversations.

 

[thatsbaseball]

and Hillary can`t say a damn thing because our "leader" would have her fat *** indicted tomorrow.

 

[GOOD_DAWG2.0]

Any time you create such a market -- you can expect the cartel to fill the need. The same would be true for assault rifles or any such weapons they banned until you take steps to limit illegal trade. Take those steps then we can start having honest conversations.

Engie, spot on again. Anyone who has studied economics at all knows this is true. Where there is a large enough demand, there will ALWAYS be supply. Not only that, but prohibition of whatever (cannabis, other illicit drugs, alcohol-during prohibition) ALWAYS creates and strengthens cartels.

The people who need guns for what they do- whatever that is, legal or illegal, will have them. Regardless of what the government allows them to do.

 

[mcdawg22]

This thread is sure to get locked but the problem is our 17n politicians. Republicans want to blame radical Islam and democrats want to blame guns. They are both to blame and we need people to quit being so concerned with party lines and fix a 17n problem. There is no reason why anyone, law abiding or otherwise, should not have to go through a detailed and rigorous background check to purchase any gun, especially an assault rifle. There should be a waiting period. I'm not saying ban them cause I'm pro gun but **** make it harder. And democrats need to recognize that radical Islam is a problem. I don't wanna profile anyone anymore than we have to but damn it's time to admit that we got a damn a problem and it's not just guns.

https://twitter.com/rickyftw/status/742069085253468160

 

[KurtRambis4]

It's because their leaders

teach them to protect their own, rather than work with the infidels.

 

[coach66]

Amen, their leadership is a 17n joke and most of the Muslims in my neighborhood

Don't consider themselves Americans, they make no effort to assimilate and be
normal neighbors. They just want our milk and honey, they hate our country and
our way of life.

 

[mount lefroy]

Our foreign occupation has fueled the hatred towards the USA. I think what we have done in Libya, Egypt, Syria and Iraq were terrible actions. I am not going to get deep into what the reasoning is behind all of our meddling.

Anyone who supports a terror group, like this guy, needs to be picked up ASAP. We are to worried about being correct in assessing a real threat. Shut the damn borders down and pick up all sympathizers is a start.

So the answer is to remove the freedoms of our country based on a suspicion?

I wouldnt dare speak for all veterans, but that is the opposite of what many veterans serve for. The dilemma is that having our freedom means these things can happen. The only solution i know is that collectively society must reject killing as a solution to stop killing.

 

[DocHolliday.sixpack]

Ever wonder what a true idiot thinks about 2nd Amendment? ^^^^^ HERE ^^^^^^^

I am with you on this one. in the past I owned and shot all of it excepting full auto. I reloaded for all of them too.

But I think citing the 2nd amendment is just not adequate anymore. It was created in a time when it took 60 seconds to reload your weapon and our country was not full of batshit crazy people.

Times have changed.

This is like saying with the invention and process of SPAM, who needs to eat a good ribeye anymore? It's barbaric and unnecessary. Sheeeeesh some people.

 

[ShrubDog]

So the answer is to remove the freedoms of our country based on a suspicion?

Securing our borders and rounding up sympathizers of terror groups has nothing to do with removing freedom. However, the patriot act has invaded our freedom on the flip side.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Muslims murdering homosexuals...Democrat on Democrat crime.

 

[LTR131]

If you don't think the country was full of batshit crazy people in those days, you don't know what the 17 you're talking about. & if the 2 amendment isn't adequate for you well...move

The difference is that in 1791 one batshit person could not kill 50 people in a couple of minutes as easily as one batshit person can do it now. Please don't stretch you're imagination drumming up scenarios how it could happen. If you don't see repeated catastrophes like this shooting as a threat to your ability to own guns then maybe you don't know what the 17 you're talking about.

I sure as hell don't know the solution but I won't use the 2nd as an excuse to do nothing.

 

[ShrubDog]

One batshit crazy person could poison a well and kill a village back in 1791.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Reb, who the **** made you God? It's not the Governments (or your) job to grab guns. If I want an AR 15, or a sawed off pump shotgun with a 20 shell magazine in using buckshot, then I should be able to defend myself. Thank God I live in Texas, instead of Pussissippi where Ole Miss politicians want to grab our guns and make us as big a pussies as they are.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Another Reb who wants to grab our guns and turn Mississippi into Pussissippi. There's a reason Muslims target gay bars and not NRA meetings.

 

[KurtRambis4]

That's the true

irony in all of this.

 

[ShrubDog]

The 2nd amendment exists to protect us from the government.

 

[EngDawg]

Regarding the 2nd Admendment

It's original intent was to ensure that citizens have access to military grade weapons. The founders deemed this necessary in order to prevent tyranny by the government in a worse case scenario. The debate should have nothing to do with the capabilities of a flint-lock musket vs an AR-15.

 

[ronpolk]

It's original intent was to ensure that citizens have access to military grade weapons. The founders deemed this necessary in order to prevent tyranny by the government in a worse case scenario. The debate should have nothing to do with the capabilities of a flint-lock musket vs an AR-15.

Agree with that 100%. But shouldn't it make sense that a guy who had been investigated by the FBI twice should not be able to buy a gun? Or at the very least the gun shop should have to check with the FBI. That is all I'm saying. I don't want the second amendment changed and I don't want law abiding people to not get guns. But it makes no sense that we don't have laws in place to prevent a guy like this from buying a gun. The red flags were there.

 

[EngDawg]

Very good point. I haven't dug into the background behind the attack yet so I can't really speak to the red flags that were seen. The fact is that we face a very real, but shadowy threat from home grown Islamic terror in this country today. To slow it down we are going to have to take some steps that will not be PC. To stop it we are going to have to abandon multiculturalism and push for immigrant assimilation - go back to the "melting pot" theory if you will.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Is it possible

he was cleared for all of his permits etc prior to being investigated or known?

 

[LTR131]

Another Reb who wants to grab our guns and turn Mississippi into Pussissippi. There's a reason Muslims target gay bars and not NRA meetings.

Guess you could not be bothered to actually read my posts. Pro gun and current gun owner/operator, just concerned that events like this may cost all pro gun folks in the long run.

Grab your own gun Mutt.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

Agree with that 100%. But shouldn't it make sense that a guy who had been investigated by the FBI twice should not be able to buy a gun? Or at the very least the gun shop should have to check with the FBI. That is all I'm saying. I don't want the second amendment changed and I don't want law abiding people to not get guns. But it makes no sense that we don't have laws in place to prevent a guy like this from buying a gun. The red flags were there.

thats not a "no laws" problem but a government problem. No. He shouldn't have been cleared to buy a weapon with his status. Dylan Roof should have been blocked from buying the pistol he killed the people in the SC church with due to a felony. But wouldn't you know it, the same government that had let ISIS gain a foothold, wastes billions upon billions of dollars, can't create a budget to operate by, is the entity some fools think can stop shootings, makes more laws to try to stop things there are already laws for, and thinks a porous border and lax immigration will yield no problems, didn't get the information on the background system to stop it.

The government is doing a swell job of masking its own incompetencies by setting the narrative it wants. Missed the guy after two investigations and not flagging him as not being able to buy a gun?? Whoops!!! Oh well, blame the gun and the lemmings will latch on.

 

[ronpolk]

thats not a "no laws" problem but a government problem. No. He shouldn't have been cleared to buy a weapon with his status. Dylan Roof should have been blocked from buying the pistol he killed the people in the SC church with due to a felony. But wouldn't you know it, the same government that had let ISIS gain a foothold, wastes billions upon billions of dollars, can't create a budget to operate by, is the entity some fools think can stop shootings, makes more laws to try to stop things there are already laws for, and thinks a porous border and lax immigration will yield no problems, didn't get the information on the background system to stop it.

The government is doing a swell job of masking its own incompetencies by setting the narrative it wants. Missed the guy after two investigations and not flagging him as not being able to buy a gun?? Whoops!!! Oh well, blame the gun and the lemmings will latch on.

I agree with you here. Go back and read my first post on this. The problem is the politicians are not willing to budge from their party lines and we are at a point where we have huge problems but no solutions. Democrats aren't willing to admit that Muslims are a problem and republicans aren't willing to make background checks more in depth. We agree here the government is a huge problem.

 

[mcdawg22]

Engie, spot on again. Anyone who has studied economics at all knows this is true. Where there is a large enough demand, there will ALWAYS be supply. Not only that, but prohibition of whatever (cannabis, other illicit drugs, alcohol-during prohibition) ALWAYS creates and strengthens cartels.

The people who need guns for what they do- whatever that is, legal or illegal, will have them. Regardless of what the government allows them to do.

Handguns are 2-4 thousand dollars on the black market in Australia. They obviously have natural borders so I think Engie is right secure the borders first then the next step could truly squeeze the ******** that want to illegally own a gun. But if you are on the no fly list, no gun. As far as soft targets go, where do you draw the line with open carry? Financial institutions? Schools? You do realize that we had a full on open carry period in our history. It was in the west and it was incredibly violent.

 

[ronpolk]

he was cleared for all of his permits etc prior to being investigated or known?

Yeah that's possible. I'm just hoping that even then the FBI should have been able to put him on some sort of list to not buy a gun. And if he had these guns while being investigated then that's a major fail on the FBI.

 

[tired]

The difference is that in 1791 one batshit person could not kill 50 people in a couple of minutes as easily as one batshit person can do it now. Please don't stretch you're imagination drumming up scenarios how it could happen. If you don't see repeated catastrophes like this shooting as a threat to your ability to own guns then maybe you don't know what the 17 you're talking about.

I sure as hell don't know the solution but I won't use the 2nd as an excuse to do nothing.

In your first post you didn't say any of this ****. You said the country wasn't full of "batshit crazy" people. There was plenty of batshit crazy people.

And you said "citing the second amendment isn't adequate anymore". I think it's plenty adequate.

I never made the statement or argument that acts like these could or couldn't threaten my ability to own a gun. This is all just a new argument. Or a reb spin.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

republicans aren't willing to make background checks more in depth. We agree here the government is a huge problem.

Its not that they aren't in depth. The problem in my example was it never made it in the system. A person's entire criminal history is on that system... Or is supposed to be. It can be made as in depth as possible but it's still garbage in/garbage out.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

Guess you could not be bothered to actually read my posts. Pro gun and current gun owner/operator, just concerned that events like this may cost all pro gun folks in the long run.

lets put it this way. If AR-15s and AK47s were banned tomorrow. What do you think the chances are that will be the end of the gun control talk? What is to be given up next? If you give that up will that be the end? What is to be given up next..........

 

[DocHolliday.sixpack]

Don't crawfish Bear bcause you were called out.Remove Kotex & stand behind post

Guess you could not be bothered to actually read my posts. Pro gun and current gun owner/operator, just concerned that events like this may cost all pro gun folks in the long run.

Grab your own gun Mutt.

Your comment was indeed read. Your statement was an innuendo it that the 2nd amendment was only for those with primitive weapons in the days of yore. Then you backtrack and say you're pro gun and you're worried about your own guns. BS, that's not what you implied. Tell ya what.....I'll sale my own AR, grab my slingshot and get Barney to give me targeting advice. Yet you didn't have the balls to say, I'm all for being a "gun owner/operator and I support the 2nd amendment".

 

[Will James]

There's ample precedent to drastically cut this kind of stuff. Remember, Japansese internment was upheld by the Supreme Court.

Point is we don't have to sit around and just hope this **** stops happening. We have to have leaders that actually identify the problem first though which is currently not the case. It will probably take a city turned to rubble for us to wake up.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

There's ample precedent to drastically cut this kind of stuff. Remember, Japansese internment was upheld by the Supreme Court.

Point is we don't have to sit around and just hope this **** stops happening. We have to have leaders that actually identify the problem first though which is currently not the case. It will probably take a city turned to rubble for us to wake up.

It may take a city. Two towers, the pentagon, and thousands of lives didn't.

For some reason a huge portion of this country and the present folks in the executive branch absolutely make it clear that what is to be blamed is not blamed but protected.

 

[ShrubDog]

he was cleared for all of his permits etc prior to being investigated or known?

He worked for G4S who holds government contracts. In some cases they have high security clearances. The feds interviewed him three times about some stuff but they never took his firearm permits despite being on a watch list.

This is a total failure beyond comprehension in how this guy fell through the cracks. Or maybe it was not a failure but something more sinister.

 

[Will James]

He worked for G4S who holds government contracts. In some cases they have high security clearances. The feds interviewed him three times about some stuff but they never took his firearm permits despite being on a watch list.

This is a total failure beyond comprehension in how this guy fell through the cracks. Or maybe it was not a failure but something more sinister.

Fast and Furious II

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

He worked for G4S who holds government contracts. In some cases they have high security clearances. The feds interviewed him three times about some stuff but they never took his firearm permits despite being on a watch list.

This is a total failure beyond comprehension in how this guy fell through the cracks. Or maybe it was not a failure but something more sinister.

its a larger failure than is already recognized:

http://counterjihad.com/isis-infilt...orlando-terrorist-worked-major-dhs-contractor

The DHS contract with G4S is worth more than $234 million. The contract states that one of the “performance requirements” is helping identify “suspected terrorists” trying to enter the U.S.
The security contractor also provides security guards and other security services for “90 percent of U.S. nuclear facilities.”

 

[KurtRambis4]

The administration

goes and pulls F&F, the come out today and talk about gun control. Laughable liberals.

 

[Philly Dawg]

The AR-15 commonly sold in the United States is a modern, semi-automatic version of weapons originally designed for military use. Assault rifles are, as you said, generally defined fully automatic rifles that shoot a high velocity round larger than those used in sub-machine guns but smaller than that in traditional military rifles like the M1 carbine. With the AR-15, you've essentially taken an assault rifle and redesigned it so that it would be approved for civilian use. As you noted, if you'd like to quickly kill many targets as quickly as possible, they are very useful despite not being fully automatic.

 

[Shamoan]

So our government, responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands in the last century alone (Hiroshima and Nagasaki among others), and one with a nuclear arsenal that could decimate all life on earth a few times over is going to tell me put down my "assault" rifle? That's like Adolph Hitler telling the schoolyard bully that he is being too rough on Timmy.

 

[cheewgumm]

The difference is that in 1791 one batshit person could not kill 50 people in a couple of minutes as easily as one batshit person can do it now. Please don't stretch you're imagination drumming up scenarios how it could happen. If you don't see repeated catastrophes like this shooting as a threat to your ability to own guns then maybe you don't know what the 17 you're talking about.

I sure as hell don't know the solution but I won't use the 2nd as an excuse to do nothing.

If the 2nd should go then the 1st damn sure should.

Nothing incited violence like the 1st amendment free speech.

 

[Shamoan]

Yet you fail to mention the gun regulations that have already been put in place...you know...like building a wall of restrictions for the average joe to purchase a fully automatic weapon. Society has accepted the semi-automatic weapons in its place as a common sense alternative. From the nra's standpoint, giving ANYTHING up is the first step in losing guns forever. I have to say I think some ideas floated out there should be adopted, but given the nature of our political climate, it's hard to blame the nra for that standpoint. The intent of the second amendment is to allow people to protect themselves from the government. It gets tricky when the government dictates to its people how they can protect themselves from its own potentially tyrannical rule.