Zion declared out tomorrow

[morgousky]

Oh wow, 2 rape convictions. Weird I didn’t see anything about that. Could it be because you’re talking about 2 rape accusations? Big difference and I know you wouldnt want to confuse the two. Otherwise people could just accuse you of anything and “poof” you’d be guilty.

Duke fans are starting to sound like Kansas fans. Actually exactly alike.

And we see how that’s about to go. Be careful. Duke is dirty. It’s all not proven until it is. And really we know Duke is dirty. They should have had strict liability applied to two different incidences involving two final fours and a title. That’s a fact.

Zions parents were on the take = fact. Kansas was offering = fact. He chose Duke who was offering nothing = you’re an idiot.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

Oh wow, 2 rape convictions. Weird I didn’t see anything about that. Could it be because you’re talking about 2 rape accusations? Big difference and I know you wouldnt want to confuse the two. Otherwise people could just accuse you of anything and “poof” you’d be guilty.

I didn't say anything about convictions. I said where there's smoke there's fire. Lucky for you ACC folks your top programs are exempt from consequences. Reading is fundamental.

 

[Jpthegame]

I didn't say anything about convictions. I said where there's smoke there's fire. Lucky for you ACC folks your top programs are exempt from consequences. Reading is fundamental.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire is a guilty until proven innocent statement. You’re simply saying your original point in a different way. There’s reading comprehension but there’s also quality writing and making solid points based on verified facts. I’ll work on the first one while you tackle the second.

 

[Jpthegame]

Zions parents were on the take = fact.

This is where the source of the disagreement lives. That is not a factual statement. I’ve already said multiple times that I believe every top 25 kid gets hooked up by every top 25 school. So it’s not about being naive. But a runner who was lining his own pockets cannot be assumed to be representing the wishes of the family. It’s entirely possible that Zions family had zero knowledge of the runner making that request. We know this because these guys got charged because they personally benefitted (skimming and/ accepting kickbacks). Also, isn’t that uk’s defense in the Bam scenario? The kid didn’t know and didn’t receive? Why is it presumed to be true in that case but not this case?
This is simply not a statement of fact and so long as you treat it as such, we’ll be on different sides of the issue.

 

[Lumpy 2]

This is where the source of the disagreement lives. That is not a factual statement. I’ve already said multiple times that I believe every top 25 kid gets hooked up by every top 25 school. So it’s not about being naive. But a runner who was lining his own pockets cannot be assumed to be representing the wishes of the family. It’s entirely possible that Zions family had zero knowledge of the runner making that request. We know this because these guys got charged because they personally benefitted (skimming and/ accepting kickbacks). Also, isn’t that uk’s defense in the Bam scenario? The kid didn’t know and didn’t receive? Why is it presumed to be true in that case but not this case?
This is simply not a statement of fact and so long as you treat it as such, we’ll be on different sides of the issue.

Do you have any facts to support your belief that every top 25 kid gets hooked up by every top 25 school? If not, you are just speculating like you are accusing others of doing.

We haven't seen any definitive proof that Zion or his family took money from Duke for his commitment, but we have seen the statement that his dad was asking for money and housing from Kansas and that Kansas was willing to meet those demands. That makes it seem unlikely that he would be willing to choose another school without receiving extra benefits. Add in the reports of Zion's family (and Bagley's) living in an upscale neighborhood without any visible means of being able to afford it may not add up to a fire but it sure creates a lot of smoke.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

verified facts.

Verified facts lmao. UNC. It's ok. I don't expect someone like you, a person who clearly has no morals, to do anything other than defend your coach who has had the NCAA not penalize him twice for players who clearly broke NCAA rules. Wins are greater than morals for Duke fans.

 

[Jpthegame]

Do you have any facts to support your belief that every top 25 kid gets hooked up by every top 25 school? If not, you are just speculating like you are accusing others of doing.

We haven't seen any definitive proof that Zion or his family took money from Duke for his commitment, but we have seen the statement that his dad was asking for money and housing from Kansas and that Kansas was willing to meet those demands. That makes it seem unlikely that he would be willing to choose another school without receiving extra benefits. Add in the reports of Zion's family (and Bagley's) living in an upscale neighborhood without any visible means of being able to afford it may not add up to a fire but it sure creates a lot of smoke.

Representing it as my belief is absolutely speculation which is why I labeled it as my belief, not as a “fact”.
You’re making the same mistake the others are making. You don’t have Zions father asking for anything. You have a runner representing that but he has also been accused of brokering those deals for his own benefit. So you saying “we have seen the statement that his dad was asking for money” is completely false.
As to these mythical houses. Show me the addresses. Show me proof they live there or have ever been there. Surely something so obvious would be easily documented. Show me lease terms and show me how two families whose fathers have been employeed for years by shoe companies to run aau programs couldn’t afford it for 8 months. I find the assumption that these families could never float that rent for 6-8 months to be inherently racist but that’s beside the point. The point is you can’t satisy ANY of those requests when you would need to satisfy ALL of them to establish your statement as a fact.
This is full on confirmation bias and I get why so many people on here do it, but they shouldn’t. You wouldnt appreciate it if the same ridiculously low standard for “proof” or “fact” applied to you.

 

[Jpthegame]

Verified facts lmao. UNC. It's ok. I don't expect someone like you, a person who clearly has no morals, to do anything other than defend your coach who has had the NCAA not penalize him twice for players who clearly broke NCAA rules. Wins are greater than morals for Duke fans.

Save your personal attacks and lecture on morals for the next final four your coach vacates. Glass houses man.
I don’t have to defend anything because you haven’t successfully established a viable claim. The burden of proof lies with the accuser. If you can’t even present one fact, why should anyone take your claim seriously?

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Save your personal attacks and lecture on morals for the next final four your coach vacates. Glass houses man.
I don’t have to defend anything because you haven’t successfully established a viable claim. The burden of proof lies with the accuser. If you can’t even present one fact, why should anyone take your claim seriously?

Maggette did the same thing Camby did which was take money from an agent but UMass and Cal was penalized by stripping wins, final fours, etc. Duke....well they ended up with nothing. That is the facts you clown.

 

[83Cat_rivals79182]

I hope 100% that he doesn't play again, I don't hope he is hurt but I just hope between the knee tweak and all the $$$ on the table in a few months he don't play again.
Guess what, I don't feel bad AT ALL. It improves UK's chances at a title and that is all I care about.

I toast you for being honest VS PC. There's not a lot of that going around these days.

 

[Jpthegame]

Maggette did the same thing Camby did which was take money from an agent but UMass and Cal was penalized by stripping wins, final fours, etc. Duke....well they ended up with nothing. That is the facts you clown.

Not true. Maggette accepted benefits from a summer league coach while still in high school. Camby received benefits while at umass. Like it or not, that’s the difference in the ncaa standard of “knew, or should have known...”.
You know you could just google this stuff before throwing out all of that inaccurate info. It’s so easy, even a clown could do it.

 

[Lumpy 2]

Representing it as my belief is absolutely speculation which is why I labeled it as my belief, not as a “fact”.
You’re making the same mistake the others are making. You don’t have Zions father asking for anything. You have a runner representing that but he has also been accused of brokering those deals for his own benefit. So you saying “we have seen the statement that his dad was asking for money” is completely false.
As to these mythical houses. Show me the addresses. Show me proof they live there or have ever been there. Surely something so obvious would be easily documented. Show me lease terms and show me how two families whose fathers have been employeed for years by shoe companies to run aau programs couldn’t afford it for 8 months. I find the assumption that these families could never float that rent for 6-8 months to be inherently racist but that’s beside the point. The point is you can’t satisy ANY of those requests when you would need to satisfy ALL of them to establish your statement as a fact.
This is full on confirmation bias and I get why so many people on here do it, but they shouldn’t. You wouldnt appreciate it if the same ridiculously low standard for “proof” or “fact” applied to you.

It's funny how you don't seem to mind speculating when you say you believe that all top recruits are getting extra benefits but you want irrefutable proof that Zion or any other Duke recruit was included in that group.

We have seen the statement that Zion's dad was asking for money. That statement didn't come directly from Zion or his dad which is why I said we don't have irrefutable proof that Zion got anything from Duke, but you have said you believe that all the top recruits were getting extra benefits and Duke is getting more than it's share so I guess it's safe to assume that Duke is outbidding all those other schools for the top ranked players every year.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

Maggette received illegal benefits. He chose Duke. He, therefore Duke, had their transgression swept under the rug instead of them being penalized. FFS, is it really that hard to understand. I'm not attacking you. I've read your own words and they offer up an easy synopsis Duke fan. You have no moral compass. I'm done with this run around. I feel like I need a delousing after talking to these Dukies.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

It's funny how you don't seem to mind speculating when you say you believe that all top recruits are getting extra benefits but you want irrefutable proof that Zion or any other Duke recruit was included in that group.

We have seen the statement that Zion's dad was asking for money. That statement didn't come directly from Zion or his dad which is why I said we don't have irrefutable proof that Zion got anything from Duke, but you have said you believe that all the top recruits were getting extra benefits and Duke is getting more than it's share so I guess it's safe to assume that Duke is outbidding all those other schools for the top ranked players every year.

It's the ACC way. Deny, deny, deny. NCAA, ignore, ignore, ignore.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Not true. Maggette accepted benefits from a summer league coach while still in high school. Camby received benefits while at umass. Like it or not, that’s the difference in the ncaa standard of “knew, or should have known...”.
You know you could just google this stuff before throwing out all of that inaccurate info. It’s so easy, even a clown could do it.

False that is why the NCAA said strict liability except when it comes to Duke obviously because other schools have been hammered for the same or less than the Maggette ordeal. You are everything I expect a Duke fan to be an arrogant piece of crap.

 

[CincinnatiWildcat]

I keep hearing Shaggy- It Wasn't Me every time JP responds. You spell out point blank for him what happened and he still just denies denies denies. Song is fire, JP not so much

 

[Lumpy 2]

Not true. Maggette accepted benefits from a summer league coach while still in high school. Camby received benefits while at umass. Like it or not, that’s the difference in the ncaa standard of “knew, or should have known...”.
You know you could just google this stuff before throwing out all of that inaccurate info. It’s so easy, even a clown could do it.

That should have made Maggette ineligible per NCAA rules. The NCAA said Maggette didn't didn't know that accepting money was wrong even though he originally denied taking the money and later admitted he lied. If he didn't know it was against the rules why did he lie?

Maggette was 1 of 4 players that Piggie admitted giving money, but he was the only one not punished.

 

[Jpthegame]

Maggette received illegal benefits. He chose Duke. He, therefore Duke, had their transgression swept under the rug instead of them being penalized. FFS, is it really that hard to understand. I'm not attacking you. I've read your own words and they offer up an easy synopsis Duke fan. You have no moral compass. I'm done with this run around. I feel like I need a delousing after talking to these Dukies.

Again, ncaa rules state that if it happens prior to enrollment, the school isn’t responsible. How could any coach be held responsible for undiscovered behavior while at another institution? I didn’t say I agree or disagree with the verdict. I’m proposing that it’s inline with the rules as they existed. I wouldn’t think that would be hard for anyone to understand. Perhaps it’s just hard to accept.
Nice bail out on the discussion. Throw out a personal insult and leave. I gladly accept your white flag.

 

[Jpthegame]

That should have made Maggette ineligible per NCAA rules. The NCAA said Maggette didn't didn't know that accepting money was wrong even though he originally denied taking the money and later admitted he lied. If he didn't know it was against the rules why did he lie?

Maggette was 1 of 4 players that Piggie admitted giving money, but he was the only one not punished.

He was also the only 1 of 4 where it was proven that the benefits didn’t continue once he went to college. The others stayed in contact and continued receiving benefits. Thus, the difference in the ruling. I agree it’s a small detail but people get away with murder on smaller technicalities than that.
Again, not endorsing any of the behaviors and I think anyone who takes anything should be done, period. But these are the rules and the reason for the rulings.

 

[Jpthegame]

I keep hearing Shaggy- It Wasn't Me every time JP responds. You spell out point blank for him what happened and he still just denies denies denies. Song is fire, JP not so much

I’ve been given a lot of opinions on what happened. Not so many facts. Happy to respond to them if and when they show up.
Ps, that song always sucked.

 

[Jpthegame]

False that is why the NCAA said strict liability except when it comes to Duke obviously because other schools have been hammered for the same or less than the Maggette ordeal. You are everything I expect a Duke fan to be an arrogant piece of crap.

Except when it comes to kids not even at your institution. You’re not held responsible for children in other households. You are responsible for the behavior of children in your household. For some reason, You’re not understanding or accepting the difference but there it is.
Also, note how I responded to you post and shared my own opinions without resorting to personal insults. Something to think about.

 

[indianskid7220]

Again, ncaa rules state that if it happens prior to enrollment, the school isn’t responsible. How could any coach be held responsible for undiscovered behavior while at another institution? I didn’t say I agree or disagree with the verdict. I’m proposing that it’s inline with the rules as they existed. I wouldn’t think that would be hard for anyone to understand. Perhaps it’s just hard to accept.
Nice bail out on the discussion. Throw out a personal insult and leave. I gladly accept your white flag.

Wasn’t Derrick Rose penalized for his SAT’s? Pretty sure that was before he enrolled, and Calipari didn’t know…. Yet Cal was penalized, correct?

 

[CincinnatiWildcat]

Where there’s smoke there’s fire is a guilty until proven innocent statement. .

I believe we are discussing NCAA violations not a court of law. D Rose for example was never proven guilty but violations were still handed down. The NCAA does not have the same burden of proof as the NCAA if it is more likely than not that you violated rules they can bring the hammer down

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Your boy said, ONE day before the major story broke, that he knows NOTHING about dirty inside dealing in college basketball. He said that’s not what’s going on. He’s a liar, and it’s easily proven.

Already been proven. "I didn't say that to that kid", then next day audio of him saying exactly what the Oregon kid had quoted him as saying.

 

[BlueBlood66_rivals34314]

Wasn’t Derrick Rose penalized for his SAT’s? Pretty sure that was before he enrolled, and Calipari didn’t know…. Yet Cal was penalized, correct?

Cal wasn’t really punished. The NCAA wiped away Memphis’ wins when Rose played but Cal didn’t face any actual suspension, fines, or anything.

Also it wasn’t an NCAA decision with Rose. The accreditation board of the test invalidated his test score. Without a valid score he was ineligible for the NCAA.

 

[morgousky]

Again, ncaa rules state that if it happens prior to enrollment, the school isn’t responsible. How could any coach be held responsible for undiscovered behavior while at another institution? I didn’t say I agree or disagree with the verdict. I’m proposing that it’s inline with the rules as they existed. I wouldn’t think that would be hard for anyone to understand. Perhaps it’s just hard to accept.
Nice bail out on the discussion. Throw out a personal insult and leave. I gladly accept your white flag.

I was under the impression that strict liability means it doesn’t matter how, when, or where. Ineligible is ineligible.

Lance Thomas and Corey Maggette were ineligible.

Oh wait that changes depending on other interpretations depending on whatever.

Just like Bagely didn’t have transcripts for community college but enrolls at Duke through a diploma mill.

Just give all of the talking points because no one is listening. To everyone other than UNC AND DUKE fans, which are basically the same establishment group of hacks, there are asterisks all over Tobacco Road.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Except when it comes to kids not even at your institution. You’re not held responsible for children in other households. You are responsible for the behavior of children in your household. For some reason, You’re not understanding or accepting the difference but there it is.
Also, note how I responded to you post and shared my own opinions without resorting to personal insults. Something to think about.

If you don't like me telling you that you are an idiot because you either don't understand strict liability or you just want to deny it then go back to your board and discuss it with your fans.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Again, ncaa rules state that if it happens prior to enrollment, the school isn’t responsible. How could any coach be held responsible for undiscovered behavior while at another institution? I didn’t say I agree or disagree with the verdict. I’m proposing that it’s inline with the rules as they existed. I wouldn’t think that would be hard for anyone to understand. Perhaps it’s just hard to accept.
Nice bail out on the discussion. Throw out a personal insult and leave. I gladly accept your white flag.

So you are saying Memphis wasn't responsible for Rose and shouldn't have those wins taken? It seems you have already said Cal caused 2 schools to be put on probation. You can't have it both ways.

 

[BlueBlood66_rivals34314]

So you are saying Memphis wasn't responsible for Rose and shouldn't have those wins taken? It seems you have already said Cal caused 2 schools to be put on probation. You can't have it both ways.

Memphis and Cal weren’t responsible for Rose. But they still had to have the wins taken away. They played with an ineligible player. Bad luck for Cal on that one.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Memphis and Cal weren’t responsible for Rose. But they still had to have the wins taken away. They played with an ineligible player. Bad luck for Cal on that one.

And so should Duke with Maggette. He took money from an agent and lied about it. He should have been ineligible and thus playing an ineligible player resulting in vacated wins but not for cheating K and Duke. Different rules and standards. I can't wait until K is gone and you guys have to play by the rules that everyone else does like UCLA did when Wooden left.

 

[BlueBlood66_rivals34314]

And so should Duke with Maggette. He took money from an agent and lied about it. He should have been ineligible and thus playing an ineligible player resulting in vacated wins but not for cheating K and Duke. Different rules and standards. I can't wait until K is gone and you guys have to play by the rules that everyone else does like UCLA did when Wooden left.

Yea probably should have been some punishment. But I’m not gonna complain.

 

[BBUK_anon]

This is where the source of the disagreement lives. That is not a factual statement. I’ve already said multiple times that I believe every top 25 kid gets hooked up by every top 25 school. So it’s not about being naive. But a runner who was lining his own pockets cannot be assumed to be representing the wishes of the family. It’s entirely possible that Zions family had zero knowledge of the runner making that request. We know this because these guys got charged because they personally benefitted (skimming and/ accepting kickbacks). Also, isn’t that uk’s defense in the Bam scenario? The kid didn’t know and didn’t receive? Why is it presumed to be true in that case but not this case?
This is simply not a statement of fact and so long as you treat it as such, we’ll be on different sides of the issue.

Everyone smokes weed in high school...

 

[MNantz]

Duke fans are on the same level with UNCHEAT They think the NCAA rules apply to other teams not them !! Hell it was common knowledge Dual was not going to be illegible to get into collage ,just like Mudiay a couple of years ago, but the Rat Faced Bastard and Dook needed a point guard , so magically he has the grades to get into Dook

 

[Cardsstink]

Zion out yet again....

:eyes:

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Zion out yet again....

:eyes:

It would be terribly stupid for Duke to play him against two of the ACC's worst teams. I suspect he'd be back for UNC.. if not for that game.. then it's time to speculate.. because they can't drop to UNC again and still maintain a 1-seed.

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

Zion out yet again....

:eyes:

Thanks. I was about to post that question.

 

[Fitch44]

It would be terribly stupid for Duke to play him against two of the ACC's worst teams. I suspect he'd be back for UNC.. if not for that game.. then it's time to speculate.. because they can't drop to UNC again and still maintain a 1-seed.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Cardsstink]

It would be terribly stupid for Duke to play him against two of the ACC's worst teams. I suspect he'd be back for UNC.. if not for that game.. then it's time to speculate.. because they can't drop to UNC again and still maintain a 1-seed.

I'm 100% sure he'll play again this year, just interesting to watch.

 

[morgousky]

Representing it as my belief is absolutely speculation which is why I labeled it as my belief, not as a “fact”.
You’re making the same mistake the others are making. You don’t have Zions father asking for anything. You have a runner representing that but he has also been accused of brokering those deals for his own benefit. So you saying “we have seen the statement that his dad was asking for money” is completely false.
As to these mythical houses. Show me the addresses. Show me proof they live there or have ever been there. Surely something so obvious would be easily documented. Show me lease terms and show me how two families whose fathers have been employeed for years by shoe companies to run aau programs couldn’t afford it for 8 months. I find the assumption that these families could never float that rent for 6-8 months to be inherently racist but that’s beside the point. The point is you can’t satisy ANY of those requests when you would need to satisfy ALL of them to establish your statement as a fact.
This is full on confirmation bias and I get why so many people on here do it, but they shouldn’t. You wouldnt appreciate it if the same ridiculously low standard for “proof” or “fact” applied to you.

Omg Duke fans are sounding EXACTLY like Kansas fans.

Just be honest, you know it looks really bad but you don’t think the ncaa will do anything to Duke.

My friend who’s a Duke fan basically admitted that to me and we finally were able to move past it and get along. He said hey man, of K can do it and get away with it, let’s do it. I can respect that. What I can’t repsect is this ***** BS and avoiding the reality. Quit spinnin a yarn, Zion was on the take and he ended up at Duke. And this was right before the big scandal broke.

Just be real and stop and there won’t be so many problems.

 

[morgousky]

Representing it as my belief is absolutely speculation which is why I labeled it as my belief, not as a “fact”.
You’re making the same mistake the others are making. You don’t have Zions father asking for anything. You have a runner representing that but he has also been accused of brokering those deals for his own benefit. So you saying “we have seen the statement that his dad was asking for money” is completely false.
As to these mythical houses. Show me the addresses. Show me proof they live there or have ever been there. Surely something so obvious would be easily documented. Show me lease terms and show me how two families whose fathers have been employeed for years by shoe companies to run aau programs couldn’t afford it for 8 months. I find the assumption that these families could never float that rent for 6-8 months to be inherently racist but that’s beside the point. The point is you can’t satisy ANY of those requests when you would need to satisfy ALL of them to establish your statement as a fact.
This is full on confirmation bias and I get why so many people on here do it, but they shouldn’t. You wouldnt appreciate it if the same ridiculously low standard for “proof” or “fact” applied to you.

Dude please. I can’t walk into Zions parents new house and send you a selfie. His father was on the take. It was well before the scandal broke. The news is factual.

You are not going to accept it. Espn has created a culture that Duke is the clean program with clean kids and good academics. And that would have probably fooled a lot of people except wooops, the FBI was involved and your cover was blown.

Duke and UNC are essentially the same program full of establishment hacks and cheaters. And even if nothing happens to either of you, the nation knows. Both of your programs have asterisks next to their accomplishments. And there’s nothing you can do to change that reality.

Blame K, he’s the one that sold out to chase Cal and keep these players away from UK. Duke isn’t about academics, they are a basketball mill.