With a bit of a dickish slant
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/...w-england-patriots-ohio-state-rutgers-defense
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/...w-england-patriots-ohio-state-rutgers-defense
Yet another Schiano article
- Thread starter TommyGunn_rivals157283
- Start date
At least he did some homework and got it all right. Ohio State has one one national championship in 25 years. In every loss in all the other 24 years, some coordinators unit didn't show up. Its football, sometimes its not your day. You see Mac level teams competing and beating p5 programs every year. But with Schiano, each loss is pinned on him like he's out there blocking and tackling. What was OSU's record with him as DC? Did they lose two games in two years? Jeez.
What is untrue in the article other than the nonsense that Greg new Ash was going to get fired?
One item that article (and there was another one on Hafley) they should pump the brakes on is they are getting a little carried away with tOSU's defensive success after 5 games, including games against 2 MAC teams, an AAC team and FAU.
One item that article (and there was another one on Hafley) they should pump the brakes on is they are getting a little carried away with tOSU's defensive success after 5 games, including games against 2 MAC teams, an AAC team and FAU.
IDK, Saban’s defense got shredded in the Nat’y last year. I guess he stinks too....
Have to ask--Why Tommy Gunn with Shatner as an avatar?
You going to see Shatner is Asbury Park Sunday?
https://www1.ticketmaster.com/willi...-new-jersey-10-06-2019/event/000056C7AA965C8D
Or Tonight in Morristown?
Big trek fan - original series anyway. Thought about going to see Shat but I’m not really into the whole celebrity thing. Don’t have much interest in meeting William Shatner, Captain Kirk on the other hand I’d love to have a beer with.
From his interviews on Stern, he seems like he can be a prick in person.
In horse racing, there's an expression: "Horses for courses," meaning some thoroughbreds running styles are perfectly, even uncannily suited for winning/succeeding at certain race tracks.
I think this is the case for Schiano and Rutgers football. We may not win every game with GS, but we can be competitive against the very best.
I think this is the case for Schiano and Rutgers football. We may not win every game with GS, but we can be competitive against the very best.
Unfortunately this is the national perception of Schiano. I feel like most young players know him as the guy who Tenn fans rioted to not be hired. I dont know much about the NJ high school football scene but I wonder how they feel. I know he was a great recruiter at OSU, but then again that was OSU playing under Meyer so hard to say it would translate
The thing about Greg he has a reputation of not letting his coaches do their thing. He has his
hands in everything. Will anyone worth while want to coach for him? I don't think anyone will be breaking down doors.
hands in everything. Will anyone worth while want to coach for him? I don't think anyone will be breaking down doors.
Posted about that earlier.Greg says that he has reformed. BUT,if he hasn't ,and micro manages again,he will NOT get top people to work for him.We would be better off with some one else in that case.
This article is what most people outside of this board thinks of when you mention Schiano.
Every body says they will but seldom do, including me. I don't know how many people will believe he will
The "best Patriot defense" of the Belichek era has a secondary with 3 players recruited and developed by Schiano playing prominent roles. Maybe both Schiano and Belichek know football better than a hipster doofus writer for the Ringer.
Superficial article. For any coach you have to dig deeper beyond W's and L's to answer the question "Why?" Did Ohio St. have an inexperienced defensive backfield last year and this year they have more experience? Are W's due to an easy schedule? Is Ash's tenure at Rutgers because he's a bad coach, or just didn't recruit? Is Joe Moorehead's Division 1 success due to coaching at really talented programs? And the lost goes on. But this author was very lazy.
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I thought that was a pretty good article, actually. It's what people outside the RU community think of Schiano. It judges Schiano based on his record; without making excuses.
People don't like it because it's unflattering to Schiano and to RU. I get it. But the article appears to have all it's facts correct. It's the facts themselves that are unflattering to Schiano and RU.
The author's correct in pointing to the Pat's hiring of Schiano, and the rumor that Schiano's leaving the Pat's was to coach RU, as being examples of a disordered universe. Those things make no sense.
But then, lots of things in life make no sense.
People don't like it because it's unflattering to Schiano and to RU. I get it. But the article appears to have all it's facts correct. It's the facts themselves that are unflattering to Schiano and RU.
The author's correct in pointing to the Pat's hiring of Schiano, and the rumor that Schiano's leaving the Pat's was to coach RU, as being examples of a disordered universe. Those things make no sense.
But then, lots of things in life make no sense.
Years ago in LA and got tix for the Tonite Show w/ Jay Leno. Shat was one of the guests and immediately started picking a fight with Merv Griffen who was another guest. Came off as really obnoxious. As much as I enjoyed Star Trek the original series, Shat seems to be a pompous *** out of character.
Any coach can get a game wrong. Especially any O or D coordinator. To identify how much weight to give such a failure, you examine the coach's and/or coordinator's total body of work. Was it an aberration or a pattern?
You want to compare Schiano's body of work to Saban's? Or Meyer's and Schiano's?
if schiano was so bad why did so many of his players make the nfl--and under ash OSU won a national championship-see the irony of this article?
Some of us with oversight experience see the need (especially now) and hope that GS micromanages the hell out of the program.
The counter argument to me is really really a bad uninformed one.
RU had success with GS precisely BECAUSE he micromanaged (a positive term)-not in spite of it.
The counter argument to me is really really a bad uninformed one.
RU had success with GS precisely BECAUSE he micromanaged (a positive term)-not in spite of it.
If you just compare the numbers, several of the other coaches look better. If you start making excuses, then those excuses have to apply to all coaches equally.
Take Jones. Winning records everywhere. 4 championships. You can correctly claim that he started with a much better situation than Schiano inherited. But that's like saying a kid that gets hired by a prestigious law-firm and wins more cases isn't any better than a kid hired by a two-partner ambulance chasing law firm that loses more cases - that the only reason is the kid's better law-firm.
So all you care about is win-loss record. Got it.
Here is a fact in the article you guys seem to gloss over.... Urban Meyer (a well known weak college coach) and Bill Belichek (and unproven pro coach) thought so little of Greg Schiano that they offered him to be their defensive coordinator. We all know these guys are not qualified to access coaching talent. (see definition of sarcasm)... Someone tell me why they did this?
And your analogy doesn’t work because there are some brilliant lawyers who almost never win because they take on the hardest cases while less skilled lawyers “win” because they only take easy cases.
Article makes some points for sure but is clearly biased. Two glaring omissions:
- No credit for his recruiting prowess. He put a boatload of players into the NFL
- No credit for taking us from compete dogshit (worse than we are now) to a legit top 10 - 15 team at our peak. The watered down BE and slacker OOC schedule helped for sure. But don't kid yourself, we were a legit top team in 2006. It takes a special coach to accomplish that
- No credit for his recruiting prowess. He put a boatload of players into the NFL
- No credit for taking us from compete dogshit (worse than we are now) to a legit top 10 - 15 team at our peak. The watered down BE and slacker OOC schedule helped for sure. But don't kid yourself, we were a legit top team in 2006. It takes a special coach to accomplish that
The article is ridiculously skewed, leaving out many pertinent facts, e.g., GS' record after 2004, his bowl record, overall interest in program, season ticket sales, etc., not to mention his first season at OSU was considered a success by OSU fans & press (that's how he landed Tenn offer). The author is jerk, doing work for the Cuse fans who fear Greg's return.
He left out all of good stuff but we are the only ones that seem to remember the stuff.
I just saying to get ready for a lot of negative reaction from everyone but Rutgers fans if he gets rehired.
I just saying to get ready for a lot of negative reaction from everyone but Rutgers fans if he gets rehired.
Every local outlet, including NYC papers, would support his rehire. But, IMO, he’s not coming whether it’s his call or Hobbs’s decision.
Not the only thing, no. But it's a pretty important factor to me. If for no other reason than it will absolutely be a pretty important factor to recruits.
The win-loss record is one of the first things a player will see about any coach. A strong winning percentage trumps one game over .500 and a bunch of excuses to everybody but a person biased towards Schiano.
Recruiting doesn't happen in a vacuum. Fair or unfair, the list of potential negative recruiting issues another team's coaches can and will bring up about Schiano is pretty big at this point.
And perception is everything.
Imagine the perception of an out-of-state player and his family as an assistant coach spends 20 minutes giving reasons why Schiano was only 1 game over .500 at RU. Or why he was fired from Tampa Bay after only two seasons. Or what the Tennessee fiasco was all about.
Because you can bet other teams' coaches will bring that crap up for a player they really want. Might not be fair. But present a recruit with a coach for which none of that is necessary vs. one where it is...
You get the idea.
You do realize how biased it is repeating that?
The first few years with Shea recruits produced poor records. That is in the overall record.
What about from the time he had all his recruits till the end?
You really think there's a whole lot better in the living room with a recruit's family than GS? And with the power of the B10 behind him-as opposed to having to explain a dying BE and an unknown future?
You really can't see him selling nj kids that if they stuck together .... they could go into the big house and the shoe and win and end up in Pasadena? You really think that that's far fetched --all because of a won loss record tainted by early rebuilding years?
Not really sure what relevance Ash has to the discussion of who the next RU head coach should be.
What is relevant is how well the other potential hires did, as head-coaches, at getting their players to the NFL. To be a reasonable comparison, I'd limit it to how well those coaches did while in P5 conferences.
Perhaps a valid comparison would be to determine the average number of players who made NFL rosters per P5 coaching year, which accounts for the variation in the number of years coaching P5 teams.
I suspect that most of us arguing for an objective coaching search would be fine with having GS as a defensive coordinator. But we're looking at head coaches here.
Okay, poor analogy then. But my point is that it's not exactly fair to coaches who took jobs with better programs to discredit their success just because they took such jobs.
Should we penalize other coaches who made better decisions about their career path? If a coach has demonstrated the good sense to only take jobs they can win at, should we not consider that good judgement when hiring that coach here?
My point being, an objective analysis of a coach has to consider a lifetime of winning everywhere they go as fairly significant when the primary goal for whomever we hire is to win. It shows a propensity towards both good judgement and winning.
I'm not saying that it's fair. I'm saying it's the perception and perception is reality.
His win-loss record is exactly what everybody who isn't a long-suffering RU fan is going to see. Which is the vast majority of potential recruits and their families. Much as you might wish to, you cannot project your perception as a big fan of Schiano who will consider length explanations for his record, onto people who are not already big fans of Schiano.
Any truly good recruit is going to have choices between programs. And they are going to have a lot to consider already before you add in a bunch of lengthy explanations for why a coach's record isn't what it looks like.
Kinda what happens in recruiting.
Really dont see a w-l record as any sort of impediment. The quick explanation of the last years record and the last recruiting class quickly eradicates that.