Would A Final Four Change Your Perception

STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
65,032
58,019
98
So stupid make it to the final 4 and call the system broken that would be the 5th while at Kentucky his system would be averaging one final four every two years

I suppose your response would make more sense if this proposed hypothetical scenario had more than about a 1% chance of actually happening.
 

Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,715
0
OMG, thank you so much! Those were truly kind words. I can't take all the credit though - my father instilled in me much of what I know today. He was a great mentor and father.
 
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Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,715
0
Lol, BCG sucked. It was a bad hire because we couldn't get better at the time. If we had/have all these alleged advantages, wouldn't every coach want to be here?

Tubby's teams were awful towards the end. The only thing that kept him from an NIT the last 2 years was name recognition. That was it. As stated, he benefited more from this job than anyone. However, UK sure didn't benefit much.

They were stripped, but it doesn't change the fact they still won them. Hiring ****** hookers doesn't give the team an advantage on the court or in the game. That was all Pitino and his coaching abilities. Considering he went to back to back final fours and won one, I would say that was pretty on par with his UK record. He grabbed an extra F4 at each.

Lol, Sutton had already been to a F4 and been named AP coach of the year before coming to UK. You really don't know much about UK basketball history.

Cal can and has done plenty wrong. 2015 comes to mind the quickest. However, it doesn't negate the fact he is the perfect man for the job. Then and now! Cal is the advantage for UK currently. Without him, there isn't one.

Other than inheriting Pitino leftovers, what was Tubby's advantage? What was BCG's advantage? Sutton's advantage? Hell, look at what Pitino inherited. I don't recall him having many advantages when he rebuilt the program. That was hard work and dedication. Cal had the advantage of being a mater recruiter, which he carried over here. That wasn't a UK thing. Just look at how bad recruiting was before he came here.

You literally just proved none of those guys come to UK without Cal here. So what was the UK benefit? Again, I'll ask since you fear answering, what players in Cal's tenute came to UK for our history and "advantages" and not because of Cal? You won't answer because it shatters your entire premise.
Your replies are like cattle farms.....full of bull
 
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Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,715
0
OMG, thank you so much! Those were truly kind words. I can't take all the credit though - my father instilled in me much of what I know today. He was a great mentor and father.
The only thing more pathetic than making up posts for someone, is repsonding to posts you made up. Good grief. Get a life. To ignore you go.
 
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MNantz

Heisman
Dec 20, 2001
9,086
11,921
98
Just wondering if a final four this season would change your desire to get rid of Cal? This is for those of you only clamoring for his removal. This is honestly something I am curious about. I ask because I have a friend who despises Cal, and he readily admits that even a Title this season would not change his mind. I applaud his determination and respect his stance. Was curious what the board would say.....let me know.
It would be welcome relief for all of us I am sure . Well except for the morons like Zaytovencat and Calisthebomb and a few others. If Cal got to the final four but didn’t win they would simply start in the see Cal can’t win the big game anymore!
 

Son_Of_Saul

Heisman
Dec 7, 2007
45,404
99,626
113
Hiring Cade's brother would have been pandering and idiotic. That would be sending the message that we are desperate enough to be strong-armed by the demands of recruits. What would stop Clarke, Boston, Sarr and so on from demanding that their family members be hired too? That would just open up the door for a lot of headaches.
We're 1-4. I'd say the message is already desparate. And none of those guys you mentioned had family members in the same situation.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,201
71,971
113
Lol, BCG sucked. It was a bad hire because we couldn't get better at the time. If we had/have all these alleged advantages, wouldn't every coach want to be here?

Tubby's teams were awful towards the end. The only thing that kept him from an NIT the last 2 years was name recognition. That was it. As stated, he benefited more from this job than anyone. However, UK sure didn't benefit much.

They were stripped, but it doesn't change the fact they still won them. Hiring ****** hookers doesn't give the team an advantage on the court or in the game. That was all Pitino and his coaching abilities. Considering he went to back to back final fours and won one, I would say that was pretty on par with his UK record. He grabbed an extra F4 at each.

Lol, Sutton had already been to a F4 and been named AP coach of the year before coming to UK. You really don't know much about UK basketball history.

Cal can and has done plenty wrong. 2015 comes to mind the quickest. However, it doesn't negate the fact he is the perfect man for the job. Then and now! Cal is the advantage for UK currently. Without him, there isn't one.

Other than inheriting Pitino leftovers, what was Tubby's advantage? What was BCG's advantage? Sutton's advantage? Hell, look at what Pitino inherited. I don't recall him having many advantages when he rebuilt the program. That was hard work and dedication. Cal had the advantage of being a mater recruiter, which he carried over here. That wasn't a UK thing. Just look at how bad recruiting was before he came here.

You literally just proved none of those guys come to UK without Cal here. So what was the UK benefit? Again, I'll ask since you fear answering, what players in Cal's tenute came to UK for our history and "advantages" and not because of Cal? You won't answer because it shatters your entire premise.
Nobody ever said that UK makes it so easy even a caveman can do it. Come on, why does every minor detail have to be explained to you.

Yes UK gives you an advantage, but if you choose to take a nap, instead of getting on the jet, that UK provides, to go see recruits, than that’s on you.

Tubby got lazy and BCG got drunk. You're blaming UK for their actions. Again, why do I have to explain these things to you? It was their fault that they didn’t use the advantages.

Also, are you so ignorant that you're going to completely ignore the fact that Sutton coached UK in the 80's? We've won 3 titles since then, those titles elevated UK.

Not to mention, that was over 30 damn years ago, the game has changed exponentially since then. Social media and coverage weren't even a thing back then.

I get trying to argue, but why are you pretending to he so ignorant? Why am I having to spend so.much time explaining what should be common sense things here?
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,201
71,971
113
I enjoy watching them squirm and deflect.

@kyjeff1 has stated multiple times UK just has all these elite advantages that instantly make coaches better at UK. However, of our last 5 coaches, Pitino is the only one they didn't want to fire at some point. Hell, most people wanted Hall out as well, so that would be 6. One would think if we really had all these advantages, we wouldn't have wanted to can or force retirement on all of our coaches.

He then went on to claim Cal only reached his level of success here because of the UK advantages, to which I asked how was he able to reach final fours and a championship game at 2 other mid major schools previously? Then I followed-up asking which players he thought would have still come to UK without Cal here. I have asked it 4 times now to not a single attempt at an answer. So is it really UK or Cal that is currently the benefit here?
Even Baller knows UK gives you advantages.

Again, it doesn't mean you get to just push a button and have success.

This quoted post, combined with your other posts, tells me you are totally in lala land with this. Advantages don't mean "automatic titles", but that’s what you’re making it sound like. As a coach, you still have to work hard.

Why are you struggling with this? How can you possibly disagrees that UK, as a program, gives you an advantage as a coach?
 

Will Bithers

Junior
Dec 2, 2020
247
274
0
Nobody ever said that UK makes it so easy even a caveman can do it. Come on, why does every minor detail have to be explained to you.

Yes UK gives you an advantage, but if you choose to take a nap, instead of getting on the jet, that UK provides, to go see recruits, than that’s on you.

Tubby got lazy and BCG got drunk. You're blaming UK for their actions. Again, why do I have to explain these things to you? It was their fault that they didn’t use the advantages.

Also, are you so ignorant that you're going to completely ignore the fact that Sutton coached UK in the 80's? We've won 3 titles since then, those titles elevated UK.

Not to mention, that was over 30 damn years ago, the game has changed exponentially since then. Social media and coverage weren't even a thing back then.

I get trying to argue, but why are you pretending to he so ignorant? Why am I having to spend so.much time explaining what should be common sense things here?

You, and others, have certainly implied that it essentially does. You have stated multiple times that we should look past coaching candidates records at other places, that they are irrelevant because of the advantages we provide here. Somehow, they are just miraculously supposed to start winning titles annually because UK/Kentucky is on the jersey. Reality has proven that isn’t the case.

What are these alleged advantages then?

When 3 out of our last 5 coaches were fired or forced out, and now the current one is having his job questioned, that tells me your so-called advantages aren’t that great. That means 1 out of 5 were actually able to utilize these so-called advantages consistently and successfully. That sounds more like a disadvantage than anything.

Tubby just wasn’t a good recruiter. He tried, he just couldn’t sell himself and the program. These so-called advantaged didn’t help him.

BCG actually recruited pretty hard, but again, the alleged advantages sure didn’t help him land top talent. We were getting Dakota Euton and Vinny Zolo back in those days. We thought Jon Hood was a big catch.

Calipari had previously recruited big at Umass and Memphis. Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe were all expected to commit to Memphis before Cal left for UK. So what was the advantage there other than UK landing Cal? Since you can’t name a single player that has come to UK in Cal’s tenure for our tradition and advantages instead of to play for Cal, that again just proves Cal is the advantage, not UK.

UConn, UNC, Duke, UL, Nova have all won 3 titles since the 80s as well. FL and KU came real damn close. It isn’t quite the accomplishment you might think.

Yes, it’s changed. That is my damn point! UK isn’t the program we once were. Nobody really is. Kids don’t care about that **** anymore. Hell, most of them don’t even know about it. And they haven’t for a couple decades now. You are living in the glory days of old. Those are long gone. UK used to have advantages. Other than TV time and big spending, we really don’t have them now. That is what you seem to be missing. And all the good programs are getting big TV time and budgets. That isn’t just a UK thing.

Because you haven’t explained anything yet. You ignore the questions you are given and have never provided any exampled of these current “advantages” UK still implores. Why can’t/won’t you answer what recruits came to UK for the school and tradition and not just to play for Cal during his tenure. What are these advantages you think exist today? Why were 3 of our last 5 coaches ran out of town, and why is it beginning to happen to the 4th, if we really have all these advantages?
Even Baller knows UK gives you advantages.

Again, it doesn't mean you get to just push a button and have success.

This quoted post, combined with your other posts, tells me you are totally in lala land with this. Advantages don't mean "automatic titles", but that’s what you’re making it sound like. As a coach, you still have to work hard.

Why are you struggling with this? How can you possibly disagrees that UK, as a program, gives you an advantage as a coach?
If you are having to do the same work as elsewhere, it isn’t really much of an advantage is it? So, what are these advantages? Maybe you can ask baller for help since you say he knows.
 
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STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
65,032
58,019
98
“UK just isn’t the program we once were”

I actually remember people saying that when they were defending Tubby at the end of his tenure. Then BCG took over and we sure as hell weren’t. Then Cal took over and we were again. And now we’re not again. Lol my head is spinning
 
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Will Bithers

Junior
Dec 2, 2020
247
274
0
“UK just isn’t the program we once were”

I actually remember people saying that when they were defending Tubby at the end of his tenure. Then BCG took over and we sure as hell weren’t. Then Cal took over and we were again. And now we’re not again. Lol my head is spinning
Under Pitino and Cal, we pretty much have been the program reminiscent of the glory days. Just last year we were a top team, won the SEC and were a top contender heading into the tournaments. Just the year before that we were in the E8. However, were Cal and Pitino the reason for that success, or was some alleged advantage no one seems able to highlight?
 

Will.Bithers

Redshirt
Dec 6, 2020
61
24
0
We're 1-4. I'd say the message is already desparate. And none of those guys you mentioned had family members in the same situation.
I wouldn’t really call being 1-4 desperate. A lot of season left to play. All of those guys have family members that would like nice jobs in return for them playing here. Why do we show favoritism to one and not the others? PJ’s dad was a coach, as were several other guys we have had. Why didn’t we hire them? Do you not understand the can of worms you would be opening to allow recruits to give you demands? What do we do once they end up here and keep making more demands for PT, amount of shots, raises and contracts for the family member and so on? It becomes a never-ending cycle of having to meet the demands of the next crop and having to put up with a lot of headaches and ********. Would you really want to end up with a LaVar Ball on staff?
 
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JC43

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2006
3,807
2,956
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Yeah. Cal said it himself. "I'm here because I can recruit the best of the best."

You've not done that in a few years now.

You can recycle and be great if you get John Wall, Anthony Davis, etc. If you're getting that 2nd tier of guy, it doesn't work. We're not getting Anthony Edwards or Cade Cunningham. The shine has worn off. And without it, the system he wants to run doesn't work.

Can he adapt and build a team a different way? I'm not sure. We'll lose everyone. And then we'll have to get a bunch of 5 stars to have a playable team. And then they'll all leave. We've gotten in this vicious cycle.

Wasn't Jalen Johnson top tier recruit? Look how well Puke is doing.I agree the OAD model is on its way out...the teams that are doing well are Jr and Sr laden. 2020 was a effed up year and 18yr olds don't know how to deal. AAU ball has destroyed a generation of talent. Its not only UK that is having a bad start of the season. The ship will be righted. Our players will pull out a hard fought win and the young ones will get their confidence up and we will roll on thru to the tourney(God willing it happens.
 
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