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Why is Duval starting?

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chov1125

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Oct 15, 2008
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germantondevil said:
I feel like the reason Grayson is still struggling is he is still fighting demons in his mind. Everywhere he goes except CIS he is booed and I think he is more focused on doing everything so right that he can’t be himself which is a very emotional and amped up player. If he starts being himself the crowd really gets on his back and rides his ***. I don’t know if he will get over this or not in college. It has to be hard knowing wherever you go play on the road you are under the microscope and opposing fans push your buttons trying to get you to snap. It’s pathetic but it’s the world we live in. It’s easy to sit here and post for him to get over it and play, but it’s not so easy living it.
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I think he like Duval struggle with our personnel. Grayson likes to shoot or take it all the way to the rim. He doesn’t have a great mid range game, he is usually moving too fast to gather himself and pull up with accuracy. With that being said we have 2 big bodies down low that have quite a presence and jam up the driving lanes down there.

I’m sure demons have a little to do with what is going on along with the added stress of being the only real upper classmen and the expectations that go along with that. Plus he’s been in a shooting funk for a while now. But all hope is not lost I don’t see him going out like this, I still see him getting the last laugh before his Duke book is complete.
 
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Blued evils

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Jan 7, 2018
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Good comments, Germantown. If each season brings a completely new squad, chemistry can be elusive.
GA needs to play better, lots better.
 
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nets on nets on nets

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Jun 4, 2015
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We definitely don't win the MSU game without Duval, he made HUGE plays down the stretch of that game. Soooo, yeah.

It is alarming that we don't seem to make great cross-court passes to Grayson, but that is not the reason we are losing. Again, Grayson only taking 4 shots and barely scoring is alarming, but our offense is fine.

We gave up 81 points to a TERRIBLE offensive team, that is why we lost. 77 points (though bad for us) should have been plenty to win yesterday. Defense (especially transition defense) should be all of our focus. I'm not worried about Grayson not being involved, I know he and his teammates will figure it out. Wendell seems to be our only guy who has made improvements on the defensive end. I'm more than worried that we will never become a good defense, and that will be our demise.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

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Wouldn’t have transition defense if we didn’t turn the ball over on offense.....u know what I mean... lol lotta problems with enough time to I hope fix them .
 
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Mpm277

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Not to detract from the dumpster fire that is this thread, but has anyone been having issues with this site on mobile recently?
 
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Devilinside

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Duval is a freshman. He is no Hurley or Jason Williams yet. He is not yet ready for the pressure of the job. It is kind of like putting a first year rookie behind the wheel of NASCAR car. Other teams know that, which explains why they do not guard him closely if at all, and defend us 5 on 4. I watched Grayson closely at the UVA game. He played very hard the whole game, but seldom could get his shot off. If Duval would mature in his role as point guard, Grayson might have more room in which to operate. Think about it. How many kick outs to an open Grayson have we been seeing?
 
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nets on nets on nets

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Devilinside said:
Duval is a freshman. He is no Hurley or Jason Williams yet. He is not yet ready for the pressure of the job. It is kind of like putting a first year rookie behind the wheel of NASCAR car. Other teams know that, which explains why they do not guard him closely if at all, and defend us 5 on 4. I watched Grayson closely at the UVA game. He played very hard the whole game, but seldom could get his shot off. If Duval would mature in his role as point guard, Grayson might have more room in which to operate. Think about it. How many kick outs to an open Grayson have we been seeing?
Click to expand...
Tyus Jones says hi.
 
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BlueDevilWildcat

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Oct 26, 2016
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I really think most folks are missing the point with Duval.
  • He's always been inefficient due to poor shooting and high turnovers. Senior year his PER was 12.73. That's brutal. Most top 15 recruits are in the 30ish range.
  • He's unable to get our bigs good entry passes, and he's not good at getting kick outs to our shooters.
  • He's probably the worst shooting guard that Duke has had in a long time, which allows teams to sag and double-team our bigs.
  • His FT shooting is horrendous, so teams know who to foul when the game is on the line.
Has nothing to do with him being a Frosh. What you see is what you get, a great player in transition and just poor in half-court. It's why any starting 5 that doesn't include him has a higher +/-, even though in a vacuum, he has more talent than anyone who would sub in for him.

In a halfcourt game, Grayson should play point and Duval should be on the bench, if the goal is having the best chance to win. Simple as that.
 
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LouisiAaron

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Feb 15, 2017
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BlueDevilWildcat said:
I really think most folks are missing the point with Duval.
  • He's always been inefficient due to poor shooting and high turnovers. Senior year his PER was 12.73. That's brutal. Most top 15 recruits are in the 30ish range.
  • He's unable to get our bigs good entry passes, and he's not good at getting kick outs to our shooters.
  • He's probably the worst shooting guard that Duke has had in a long time, which allows teams to sag and double-team our bigs.
  • His FT shooting is horrendous, so teams know who to foul when the game is on the line.
Has nothing to do with him being a Frosh. What you see is what you get, a great player in transition and just poor in half-court. It's why any starting 5 that doesn't include him has a higher +/-, even though in a vacuum, he has more talent than anyone who would sub in for him.

In a halfcourt game, Grayson should play point and Duval should be on the bench, if the goal is having the best chance to win. Simple as that.
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Please stop it. If anyone needs to be on the bench right now it's definitely Grayson. He's just a body out there at this point. O'Connell can come out and do what he's doing but make more shots
 
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BlueDevilWildcat

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dachampishere2 said:
Please stop it. If anyone needs to be on the bench right now it's definitely Grayson. He's just a body out there at this point. O'Connell can come out and do what he's doing but make more shots
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Yeah, unfortunately our guard play doesn't leave us options. I'm sure the staff expected back at least one of Luke and Frank, and no one expected Grayson to struggle so much....Lack of a true PG for the third year in a row is just a killer, feels like we've never recovered from Tyus leaving unexpectedly.
 
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Mac9192

Heisman
Jan 25, 2017
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dachampishere2 said:
Please stop it. If anyone needs to be on the bench right now it's definitely Grayson. He's just a body out there at this point. O'Connell can come out and do what he's doing but make more shots
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I thought you knew a little about basketball, but suggesting Grayson go to the bench is as dumb as saying we shouldn't throw it to Carter. Grayson is the only one, I mean only one of the starters giving it all he's got. He needs screens set for him, and needs to take more shots. Come on man.
 
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500HP_Devil

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Mar 17, 2016
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Duval is one of us and asking for other alternatives some at PG doesn't mean we are giving up on him. We will need him down the stretch if we are going to have a deep deep run. He has a high ceiling and has a lot of raw, electric athletic ability. He has a lot of assists but he has the most firepower at his disposal of any PG in the nation. We just have no business losing to BC or SJ. I just wish Duval would level out a bit and be more consistent. We don't need Allen Iverson at PG....we just need steady play, taking care of the ball and running the offense. We have so much firepower on this team, PG is just the last place we need more.

As far as Allen, he definitely needs to work to get more shots and that's on him. I would not sit him....with what he has been through, he almost has unlimited equity built up with me. He has earned it. We are not better with Grayson sitting. We just might be a tad better with Duval not running the point all the time.

Either way we better figure it out quick....Go Devils
 
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BlueDevilWildcat

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If you check out advanced stats for conference games, Grayson is a bit better than Duval on win-shares as well as O- and D- ratings: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duke/2018.html#all_per_poss_conf

Of those two, I feel better with Grayson. But agree that reducing both of their minutes and playing AOC and Jack White more is probably a gamble worth taking. We have to get the guys who best complement Trent, Bagley and Carter, and we have some games to try and figure that out. Might not be any better but feels like if we roll with the lineup combinations we have right now, we're looking at another early exit.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

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I think we need to just use the bench more right now...(and I k ow we’ve repeated this million times) our offense is to predictable with the starters getting all the minutes, and game planning against us in time to come will only get easier and easier with so much film to watch from that 5 and could hurt us in the tournament.on defense too! Like kinda now. fresh legs is a plus . Game experience for the tourney ... could go on and on... (imo ) wht do I know though, but if Ks gonna work on man to man as he is and live with a loss, develop the bench a little more ...fresh legs are better in March as well....could sit here all day and be a poster coach lol. sure its harder and not near as simple as that. u don’t have to tell me...not many options imo that r fix it all (now )options with our problems. Not as hurtful to me as that uva loss :( maybe our bench is like a bunch of secret weapons and Ks saving them for the tournament!!! Lol trying to think positive
 
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duhondukie

All-Conference
Jan 12, 2010
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The benching Grayson talk is laughable to me. The only people on this team who I have seen make an entry pass to the post using the correct angles are Grayson and Jack White.
In the last 2 or 3 years, us as Duke fans are so used to seeing the ball being entered into the post and immediately kicked back out for a 3 point shot. Now when the ball is entered to the post it stays there and the 2 bigs play off each other. Most of Trent's 3 point shots are coming off an offensive rebound or in transition. You can tell the focal point of the offense is to get the bigs involved and not become a jump shooting team. If you bench Grayson I think you will see a lack of the ball going into the post because most everyone else cannot make a simple entry pass into the post.
 
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BlueDevilWildcat

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Oct 26, 2016
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dukiejay said:
I think the folks suggesting that Duval or Grayson go to the bench, don't start, what have you.....are just trying to be cute. They both are fine in their roles, but I'd agree both need to be better. That's what all of us want.
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I'm sorry but ignoring data isn't smart. We have plenty of data to suggest our current lineup isn't going to get it done. If we're smart, we have hypotheses as to why, are testing those hypotheses on the court, and then learning and optimizing.

We can certainly go with 'gut feel and experience' but that's been proven to be a flawed approach in nearly every setting.

Are we going to use this approach? Most likely not. Doesn't make it wrong, though.
 
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Liftee

All-American
Mar 6, 2011
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Each of the last 8-10 national champions could not be guessed in early Feb. I mean last year we thought Duke looked great after the ACC tournament, clearly better than UNC. In 2015 Duke was struggling in early Feb.

There just aren't any teams that run the table any more. One and done has ended that. I don't know if the light will go on for us by mid March but we still have as good a chance as anyone. Just watch the scores every Saturday and you'll see there isn't an unbeatable team out there.
 
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gottagonow

All-Conference
Apr 14, 2010
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500HP_Devil said:
Duval is one of us and asking for other alternatives some at PG doesn't mean we are giving up on him. We will need him down the stretch if we are going to have a deep deep run. He has a high ceiling and has a lot of raw, electric athletic ability. He has a lot of assists but he has the most firepower at his disposal of any PG in the nation. We just have no business losing to BC or SJ. I just wish Duval would level out a bit and be more consistent. We don't need Allen Iverson at PG....we just need steady play, taking care of the ball and running the offense. We have so much firepower on this team, PG is just the last place we need more.

As far as Allen, he definitely needs to work to get more shots and that's on him. I would not sit him....with what he has been through, he almost has unlimited equity built up with me. He has earned it. We are not better with Grayson sitting. We just might be a tad better with Duval not running the point all the time.

Either way we better figure it out quick....Go Devils
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I can guarantee we would be unbeatable with Allen friggin Iverson so we do need him.
 
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skysdad

Heisman
Mar 3, 2006
42,753
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I think all basketball players go into slumps and sometimes it's a long one. Can't say why Graysons shot isn't going. The other night when I went to the gym to score keep rec league basketball I got there early. I decided to just shoot around a little and I missed about my 1st 15 shots from different spots on the floor. Just couldn't figure it out until I realized I was shooting the ball like a spaz. Finally i got a little form and hit some shots including about 3 or 4 from the foul line in a row. Sometimes you just gotta be patient like myself and figure it out. OFC
 
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LouisiAaron

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Feb 15, 2017
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Mac9192 said:
I thought you knew a little about basketball, but suggesting Grayson go to the bench is as dumb as saying we shouldn't throw it to Carter. Grayson is the only one, I mean only one of the starters giving it all he's got. He needs screens set for him, and needs to take more shots. Come on man.
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Grayson looks like a European league player out there. Teams don’t even fear him anymore. He should be ballin right now being that everyone is trying to stop Bagley and Carter. Trent looks like he’s on another level from Grayson. I would hope he doesnt stop hustling. That’s all he’s doing good right now. But let me stop messing with Grayson. He’s playing bad but I know he can do better. He just need to make an impact scoring.
 
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