Yeah, like I said, BS."Data centers can raise local temperatures by an average of 4 degrees Fahrenheit, with some areas experiencing increases as high as 16 degrees Fahrenheit. This phenomenon, known as the "data heat island effect," is a significant environmental concern, as it can create localized "heat islands" that affect hundreds of millions of people. The warming effect extends up to about 6 miles from a facility, and the trend is not limited to one region or climate. The study's authors caution that without intervention, the data heat island effect could become a significant factor in regional climate and public health." - New Scientist Journal
Data Centers are using various techniques to recycle the generated heat ........
'Data centers generate significant heat as a byproduct of their operations, which can be harnessed for various sustainable uses. Here are some key points on recycling heat from data centers:"
- Heat Recovery: Data centers convert a substantial amount of electricity into heat, which can be reused for various applications, such as district heating or supporting greenhouses.
- Applications: The heat can be used to support hydroponic greenhouses, warm swimming pools during events, and even supply heat to local heating networks.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=08a8...nMtZmFyLW1vcmUtc3VzdGFpbmFibGUtMjczMTgw&ntb=1- Environmental Impact: Recycling waste heat can reduce greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and decrease water usage, making it a valuable resource for communities.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e574...dGVjaC1kYXRhLWNlbnRlcnMtZ3Vlc3QtcG9zdC8&ntb=1- Design Considerations: Modern cooling systems are increasingly designed to capture and reuse heat, allowing for more efficient thermal management and energy conservation.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=9d0d...jeWNsaW5nLWhlYXQtaW4tZGF0YS1jZW50ZXJzLw&ntb=1- Future Potential: As data centers continue to grow, the demand for heat recovery solutions is expected to increase, providing opportunities for innovative applications in various sectors.
These practices not only enhance energy efficiency but also contribute to a more sustainable approach to data center operations.
Way off topic: Data Centers
- Thread starter Tgar
- Start date
Data centers can contribute to small, local warming.
But they are not a major driver of global warming or large-scale temperature changes compared to things like urbanization or emissions.
I have to laugh about the criticism that the data centers are receiving in PA.
Using land? Consuming electricity?
This criticism in a state that was built on coal mining, steel manufacturing, metals processing, and oil/gas production? I guess it is a good thing those industries did not consume energy or produce land, water and air polution?
Please Lord, save us from the know nothing critics who can't see the future.
Using land? Consuming electricity?
This criticism in a state that was built on coal mining, steel manufacturing, metals processing, and oil/gas production? I guess it is a good thing those industries did not consume energy or produce land, water and air polution?
Please Lord, save us from the know nothing critics who can't see the future.
Wilbury! The site will still need an NPDES permit for construction grading, stormwater, and other activities generated by the site-building contractor. I also mentioned the Data center may need an NPDES permit dependent on its types of discharges. The receiving waters will be identified as HQ or EV streams and waters with the NPDES permit and will determine the type of water quality permitting necessary.
"or else they discharge to an existing municipal collection system". I don't believe an NPDES permit is needed for a municipal system, but the public collection system authorities will still require an engineering report for the classification of discharge.
** Good luck with that statement when applying for water quality permits.
Last edited:
I live about 3 miles from Parkland HS. Nobody wants a data center in our area. My concerns are noise, water consumption, energy consumption and real estate values. What misconceptions are you referencing?
I don’t argue that some sort of development is normal and necessary with proper regulation. What I do argue is location. I don’t want a data center across the street from me any more than I want a Waste Management facility or a nuclear power plant.
Inquiring minds want to know.There’s been some talk here that the constant Franklin bashing is getting old and is bringing this board down. That got me “thinking” about this board come fall:
1. Will Franklin bashing distract us from trashing Campbell?
2. Will our obsession with trashing Campbell cause us to forget about Franklin? (Perish the thought.)
3. Will the board be mired in unprecedented levels of criticism of both Franklin and Campbell? In this case, will Tom need a DATA. CENTER.to handle the bandwidth? If so, can the heat generated be vented to other “school” boards?
#3 is likely. Tom, this is the time to get that DATA. CENTER.
Hermie,
You'll be 3 miles (15,840 feet) from any data center. You won't even know it's there.
So our M&A team went on a site visit to a huge data center under construction by the counterparty we obtained site control for. 8000 workers on site; 100 Billion (!) capital cost; 2000 acres under cover. I worked on the site control aspect and these numbers are staggering to me. This is an arid area and it sounds like they need quite a bit of water to start but will use a “Closed Loop” system to conserve water - needing relatively small amounts going forward to account for losses. Like very modest amounts. The trade off is that this requires a lot more energy consumption (I.e. cost) than other systems, but this type of system would be much more palatable to local communities- especially in arid areas of course.
What amazes me is the impact of so many workers on these communities. There is literally nothing around - no restaurants, motels, etc. I assume there are “man camps” (a sketchy euphemism), but that is a ton of people. There are several massive counties in the area that have less people.
Anyway, AI is here to stay as are these massive complexes
What amazes me is the impact of so many workers on these communities. There is literally nothing around - no restaurants, motels, etc. I assume there are “man camps” (a sketchy euphemism), but that is a ton of people. There are several massive counties in the area that have less people.
Anyway, AI is here to stay as are these massive complexes
are they using water or a more efficient cooling fluid?
8k workers - that's during construction, right? Surely not an operational workforce number
$100B - seems really high, where is this?
Water
8k during construction- not sure how many needed during ops. Likely very small with most oversight being done remotely.
Isn’t that $$ amount crazy? I had to ask a second time. Mind boggling.
About all I can say is West Texas.
Outside of oilfields not much in West Texas or Eastern NM.
The one new AI Center is going in North East of El Paso is a 10 billion 1 gigawatt center that will employ 100+ permanent staff.
Water is going to be an issue. I don't care what they say.
It is so freaking ugly out there. Even most proud Texans will admit it on their side of the line. All the more ironic that the people stuck with these parcels of wasteland back in the day ended up sitting atop figurative gold mines
I worked on a project about 20 years ago in Ector County. The unincorporated community at the site was called “Notrees” - and they weren’t lying.
We have a house on Jack Frost mountain in the Poconos and on either side of our entrance, Route 940
and Jack Frost Mountain Road, within a mile on one side and a few miles on the other there are gigantic
truck depots, and now there is a proposal of a data center over off of route 903. I understand we need progress but
it’s quite depressing seeing hundreds of acres of ground ripped up. It’s sad.
and Jack Frost Mountain Road, within a mile on one side and a few miles on the other there are gigantic
truck depots, and now there is a proposal of a data center over off of route 903. I understand we need progress but
it’s quite depressing seeing hundreds of acres of ground ripped up. It’s sad.
Yea the area from midland/odessa to Tucumcari NM is boooooring.
El Paso is a little more interesting with the Franklin Mts. Then not too much further south west is Big Bend and that’s gorgeous.
I’m on the western side of the Organ Mts.
Yeah but those industries created tens of thousands of good jobs for decades for the people in those areas. The data centers create a fair number of construction jobs (probably for people brought in from outside) while being built and then not many permanent jobs when the data centers are up and running and probably even few of them will be for locals. Aside from the job skills required to do the jobs, I've heard that some of them will be remote.
We have a class warfare thing going on in this country already and the data center stuff is becoming symbolic of it. The giant tech companies already have too much power and use everyones data where they like it or not. Mark Zuckerberg bought a bunch of houses around him in California so he could make a compound because one giant house wasn't enough for him. Jeff Bezos has some mega compound so he can ensure his privacy and nice surroundings.
Meanwhile the people out in the country don't have much but do have beautiful nature surrounding them and now the tech companies want to ruin that. And in pursuit of AI which is expect to....take over people jobs. Talk about a bad look.
I have an idea, build the data centers near where the wealthiest people live. No, it will never happen.
Appreciate you answering questions. You say they are now closed loop yet we have this in NEPA? I'm assuming it's much cheaper to use reservoir water than a closed loop to use water and disperse it into the river?
Project Gravity data center in Archbald to pump water from Lake Scranton
Project Gravity wants to cool nearly 2 million square feet of data centers in Archbald by tapping into Scranton’s source of drinking water.
www.thetimes-tribune.com
"Utility use
Derek Sutcliffe asked for assurance that “the infrastructure and supply costs won’t be passed onto residential customers” and contended data centers could use 1 million gallons of water per day. In response, Rinaldi told him they requested and received a will-serve letter from Pennsylvania American Water for approximately 360,000 gallons per day.Sutcliffe followed with a question about how heat and contaminants would be removed from the cooling water."
Really great movie,Hermie,
You'll be 3 miles (15,840 feet) from any data center. You won't even know it's there.
And Hermie was the luckiest teen kid in the world.
I am not familiar with NEPA. I’ve been in Denver 25 years. Closed loop is a technology that will save a lot of water. But specific geographies and data center tenants will dictate cooling methodologies. I sat on a board of a data center operator in Iceland. To cool all we did was open the roofs. just en example of leveraging your environment.Appreciate you answering questions. You say they are now closed loop yet we have this in NEPA? I'm assuming it's much cheaper to use reservoir water than a closed loop to use water and disperse it into the river?
Project Gravity data center in Archbald to pump water from Lake Scranton
Project Gravity wants to cool nearly 2 million square feet of data centers in Archbald by tapping into Scranton’s source of drinking water.www.thetimes-tribune.com
"Utility use
Derek Sutcliffe asked for assurance that “the infrastructure and supply costs won’t be passed onto residential customers” and contended data centers could use 1 million gallons of water per day. In response, Rinaldi told him they requested and received a will-serve letter from Pennsylvania American Water for approximately 360,000 gallons per day.
Sutcliffe followed with a question about how heat and contaminants would be removed from the cooling water."
This company has the answer to put them in the ocean, using waves to generate electricity and everything is self contained.