UNC vs Bucknell

[carolinablue34]

Two games isn't a great indicator of how a season will go. But this is my personal assessment of our team this year so far and how they will do.

We are pretty decent. We beat teams we were supposed to by double digits. That being said, there are some weaknesses that are pretty apparent. The loss of JJ, Meeks, and Hicks on the glass will be noticeable in many games we play. After the 2015-16 season, we could more easily replace Brice and Marcus and in some ways it forced us to spread the ball more rather than just relying on two guys for our scoring.

This year, the obvious question is the frontcourt. I think Luke Maye will continue to play well. Brooks, Manley and Huffman is a different story. Some are ready to anoint them, I'm far more cautious. Each have promise, but they are considered projects for a reason. They are getting thrown into the fire as freshman, and have actually exceeded my expectations thus far. However, they have not faced P5/ACC competition yet, and that's when I think we will get a real sense of where they are.

Berry was cold, not surprising given he just came back from a wrist injury. Not worried about him. But a lot will be placed on his shoulders.

So, no, I don't think we will be bad by any means this year. But let me put this way: last year I did not genuinely believe we would get swept by you guys. This year that's a true concern, especially from what I've seen from your team so far (as much as I loathe to admit it).

Just my two cents.

 

[topps coach]

Two games isn't a great indicator of how a season will go. But this is my personal assessment of our team this year so far and how they will do.

We are pretty decent. We beat teams we were supposed to by double digits. That being said, there are some weaknesses that are pretty apparent. The loss of JJ, Meeks, and Hicks on the glass will be noticeable in many games we play. After the 2015-16 season, we could more easily replace Brice and Marcus and in some ways it forced us to spread the ball more rather than just relying on two guys for our scoring.

This year, the obvious question is the frontcourt. I think Luke Maye will continue to play well. Brooks, Manley and Huffman is a different story. Some are ready to anoint them, I'm far more cautious. Each have promise, but they are considered projects for a reason. They are getting thrown into the fire as freshman, and have actually exceeded my expectations thus far. However, they have not faced P5/ACC competition yet, and that's when I think we will get a real sense of where they are.

Berry was cold, not surprising given he just came back from a wrist injury. Not worried about him. But a lot will be placed on his shoulders.

So, no, I don't think we will be bad by any means this year. But let me put this way: last year I did not genuinely believe we would get swept by you guys. This year that's a true concern, especially from what I've seen from your team so far (as much as I loathe to admit it).

Just my two cents.

Think your season will be determined by how your freshman bigs play.If they give you average play y'all will be pretty good.If not y'all will be Nit bound

 

[carolinablue34]

Think your season will be determined by how your freshman bigs play.If they give you average play y'all will be pretty good.If not y'all will be Nit bound

I'm more or less in agreement with this. I think JB, Theo, Luke, Cam and Jalek can play well enough to get us in, however you are correct in that how well our bigs play will determine a great deal of our games.

 

[timo0402]

I'm more or less in agreement with this. I think JB, Theo, Luke, Cam and Jalek can play well enough to get us in, however you are correct in that how well our bigs play will determine a great deal of our games.

Looks like you’ll get Cam back sooner than originally anticipated which is good news for you. Unless there are catastrophic injuries you’re not in any threat of missing the tournament, i think that is silly. I do agree with Topps though, it comes down to how your freshmen bigs handle the physicality of the ACC. I think Roy’s system makes bigs look a lot better than they actually are so that probably means at least one of them will be more than serviceable. Still think you’re top 5 in the ACC and a threat in the tourney too- mostly bc of a senior point guard like your boy “dog”.

 

[dukiejay]

Think your season will be determined by how your freshman bigs play.If they give you average play y'all will be pretty good.If not y'all will be Nit bound

I don’t really see a scenario where they go to the NIT (unless Berry faces a serious injury) but if their freshman bigs struggle they could be like an 8-9 seed come March.

 

[carolinablue34]

I don’t really see a scenario where they go to the NIT (unless Berry faces a serious injury) but if their freshman bigs struggle they could be like an 8-9 seed come March.

2012-13 we were an 8 seed after losing Barnes, Zeller, Marshall, and Henson. We also got swept that year. I do feel at least one of the freshman bigs can be serviceable, but their play in the ACC will be quite crucial.

mostly bc of a senior point guard like your boy “dog”.

Who? Ohhhhh you mean Joel Berry. Yeah he’s a great guy, such a travesty he was only named the 6th best player in the nation

 

[dukephysics]

I don’t really see a scenario where they go to the NIT (unless Berry faces a serious injury) but if their freshman bigs struggle they could be like an 8-9 seed come March.

This is how I see it. Berry alone keeps them in the mix. His health determines this team's floor. The freshman bigs determine the team's ceiling/roof.

 

[hart2chesson]

Bucknell or Bucknall????

OFC

 

[timo0402]

2012-13 we were an 8 seed after losing Barnes, Zeller, Marshall, and Henson. We also got swept that year. I do feel at least one of the freshman bigs can be serviceable, but their play in the ACC will be quite crucial.



Who? Ohhhhh you mean Joel Berry. Yeah he’s a great guy, such a travesty he was only named the 6th best player in the nation

One of the biggest social or sports related injustices of my lifetime.

 

[topps coach]

I don’t really see a scenario where they go to the NIT (unless Berry faces a serious injury) but if their freshman bigs struggle they could be like an 8-9 seed come March.

Have to disagree with you here.Unc success is based on two things One is pushing the ball up court so they don't have to play against your set defense.The second is pounding the offensive glass for numerous second shots.If their bigs are not at least average neither of them are applicable.I think Berry is a really good college player but he is not a transcendent player capable of taking a team to the FF without help.Even though he was the Mop of the FF last year he still only shot about 30 percent.Without average ACC play from their bigs the Nit is very probable.

 

[skysdad]

Bucknell or Bucknall????

OFC

Steve Bucknall. OFC

 

[dukiejay]

Have to disagree with you here.Unc success is based on two things One is pushing the ball up court so they don't have to play against your set defense.The second is pounding the offensive glass for numerous second shots.If their bigs are not at least average neither of them are applicable.I think Berry is a really good college player but he is not a transcendent player capable of taking a team to the FF without help.Even though he was the Mop of the FF last year he still only shot about 30 percent.Without average ACC play from their bigs the Nit is very probable.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[topps coach]

We'll agree to disagree.

Not wanting to be argumentative just wanting to talk hoops.Curious to hear your reasoning to why you think Unc can be successful without good big man play

 

[hart2chesson]

Steve Bucknall. OFC

Yep Sky Steve Bucknall- had a skirmish w/JR at a UNC team dinner at the Angus Barn and Dean suspended them each one game. (Heard JR ate Bucknall's dessert!)

OFC

 

[dukiejay]

Not wanting to be argumentative just wanting to talk hoops.Curious to hear your reasoning to why you think Unc can be successful without good big man play

No worries.

They don't need great big man play. If they get adequate big man play they'll be good. Besides, all joking aside, Luke Maye is a really nice college player and potentially All-ACC material (by that I mean at minimum honorable mention). If Brooks is just average, there's no reason they're not a top three or four team in the ACC, minimum. I think what often happens is as fans we make certain assumptions. If a player is on our team, we think he's going to make giant approvements over the previous season. If he's on the other team, we assume he's the same player. We're all guilty of that.

Luke Maye, despite who he plays for, is a really cool story, IMO. The kid can ball. Now, people forget we're talking about a top 100 kid in his class....not chopped liver. Other ACC schools were all over him, but he took a chance and wanted to play for his dream school. It's worked out.

 

[topps coach]

No worries.

They don't need great big man play. If they get adequate big man play they'll be good. Besides, all joking aside, Luke Maye is a really nice college player and potentially All-ACC material (by that I mean at minimum honorable mention). If Brooks is just average, there's no reason they're not a top three or four team in the ACC, minimum. I think what often happens is as fans we make certain assumptions. If a player is on our team, we think he's going to make giant approvements over the previous season. If he's on the other team, we assume he's the same player. We're all guilty of that.

Luke Maye, despite who he plays for, is a really cool story, IMO. The kid can ball. Now, people forget we're talking about a top 100 kid in his class....not chopped liver. Other ACC schools were all over him, but he took a chance and wanted to play for his dream school. It's worked out.

Agree if they get average big man play,they are top three.,but watched May in high school play about five times in person and did the scouting report with film for another four games.One he is a great kid but is limited by ACC standards athletically and size wise.Jmo opinion but he is going to be in foul trouble most of the time.If everything goes right his ceiling or roof is honorable mention All-ACC

 

[topps coach]

Yep Sky Steve Bucknall- had a skirmish w/JR at a UNC team dinner at the Angus Barn and Dean suspended them each one game. (Heard JR ate Bucknall's dessert!)

OFC

Wasn't it JR and Bucknall who beat up a NC State fan at a bar in Raleigh

 

[dukiejay]

Agree if they get average big man play,they are top three.,but watched May in high school play about five times in person and did the scouting report with film for another four games.One he is a great kid but is limited by ACC standards athletically and size wise.Jmo opinion but he is going to be in foul trouble most of the time.If everything goes right his ceiling or roof is honorable mention All-ACC

We'll see. It's definitely going to be an adjustment for him having to play 25 to 30 minutes every night. I'll never claim to be a great basketball mind, but Luke Maye passes the eye test with me. He's not the most physically gifted kid so he doesn't 'wow' you, but he gets the most out of what he has to work with....he's a good college player in the best basketball conference. At this stage he's better than both Marquis and Javin, IMO, and he was ranked lower than both. As Coach K says, every kid runs their own race to get where they're going. Luke's maybe took just a little longer....and now he's making up for it.

 

[timo0402]

I think it is as simple as- they have a great pg, in college that is huge. They have a system that is built for that and in my opinion it makes bigs look better than they are. You run the floor and crash the glass. If just one of those freshman bigs can be average or above they’ll make the tourney. I’d be rather surprised if they get to the final four, but again that has a lot to do with matchups and other factors in a OAD tournament. Bottom line something catastrophic would have to happen for them to not be one of the 31 or so at large teams.

 

[dukiejay]

I think it is as simple as- they have a great pg, in college that is huge. They have a system that is built for that and in my opinion it makes bigs look better than they are. You run the floor and crash the glass. If just one of those freshman bigs can be average or above they’ll make the tourney. I’d be rather surprised if they get to the final four, but again that has a lot to do with matchups and other factors in a OAD tournament. Bottom line something catastrophic would have to happen for them to not be one of the 31 or so at large teams.

Agreed. And that catastrophic thing would probably be an injury to Berry.

 

[timo0402]

Agreed. And that catastrophic thing would probably be an injury to Berry.

Correct

 

[carolinablue34]

@timo0402 @dukiejay

I concur that Berry is the motor that makes the team go. Which is why I thought the northern Iowa and Bucknell games would be closer given that he was either out or not at 100 percent.

If he’s healthy we are pretty good. But again, Im really not make any bold predictions as a Carolina fan, because of how green we are with our big guys. And I’m not looking forward to going against Bagley and Carter either.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

We'll see. It's definitely going to be an adjustment for him having to play 25 to 30 minutes every night. I'll never claim to be a great basketball mind, but Luke Maye passes the eye test with me. He's not the most physically gifted kid so he doesn't 'wow' you, but he gets the most out of what he has to work with....he's a good college player in the best basketball conference. At this stage he's better than both Marquis and Javin, IMO, and he was ranked lower than both. As Coach K says, every kid runs their own race to get where they're going. Luke's maybe took just a little longer....and now he's making up for it.

Isn't Luke a Junior though, while Marquis and Javin are sophomores?? I like to mock Luke Maye on a consistent basis, but I gotta admit he has shocked me with his play.

 

[dukiejay]

Isn't Luke a Junior though, while Marquis and Javin are sophomores?? I like to mock Luke Maye on a consistent basis, but I gotta admit he has shocked me with his play.

Yes, he's a junior. My only point is that one of the three was a fringe top-100 player, while the other two were top-40 players, one of whom was a McDonald's All-American. I think most of us would do cartwheels if Marquis was as effective as Luke Maye.

 

[SwatX1]

Yes, he's a junior. My only point is that one of the three was a fringe top-100 player, while the other two were top-40 players, one of whom was a McDonald's All-American. I think most of us would do cartwheels if Marquis was as effective as Luke Maye.

Can't argue that. I would lLOVE for Bolden to be putting up Luke's numbers

 

[hart2chesson]

Wasn't it JR and Bucknall who beat up a NC State fan at a bar in Raleigh

That was JR and King Rice.....OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

Have to disagree with you here.Unc success is based on two things One is pushing the ball up court so they don't have to play against your set defense.The second is pounding the offensive glass for numerous second shots.If their bigs are not at least average neither of them are applicable.I think Berry is a really good college player but he is not a transcendent player capable of taking a team to the FF without help.Even though he was the Mop of the FF last year he still only shot about 30 percent.Without average ACC play from their bigs the Nit is very probable.

Berry was hurt/dinged up for much of last year. He looked dominant early and then missed the Tennessee game. He fought through pain all year. His ankles were toast in the FF but he still managed to nab MOP honors. If he's healthy, he can dominate at the college level. He didn't do much the other night because he had a cast on his shooting hand. Makes it hard to pass, shoot, or finish at the rim.

We'll see. It's definitely going to be an adjustment for him having to play 25 to 30 minutes every night. I'll never claim to be a great basketball mind, but Luke Maye passes the eye test with me. He's not the most physically gifted kid so he doesn't 'wow' you, but he gets the most out of what he has to work with....he's a good college player in the best basketball conference. At this stage he's better than both Marquis and Javin, IMO, and he was ranked lower than both. As Coach K says, every kid runs their own race to get where they're going. Luke's maybe took just a little longer....and now he's making up for it.

Early in the season last year, I texted my brother during a game with something like, 'why **** is Roy playing Maye? He's garbage!' Then Maye shows big against FSU and hits the **** at UK. Still, he didn't do all that much.

This year's Luke Maye looks completely different. He's confident, has a gorgeous stroke, and honestly is so much more athletic than the last two years. I'm not sure what he did in the offseason, but he is much quicker and gets off the floor quickly. He had a dunk against Barton on the baseline that blew me away. That is not the Maye I know.

What I am curious to see is if this is who he is, or does he regress to the mean. We'll find out eventually.

 

[topps coach]

Berry was hurt/dinged up for much of last year. He looked dominant early and then missed the Tennessee game. He fought through pain all year. His ankles were toast in the FF but he still managed to nab MOP honors. If he's healthy, he can dominate at the college level. He didn't do much the other night because he had a cast on his shooting hand. Makes it hard to pass, shoot, or finish at the rim.



Early in the season last year, I texted my brother during a game with something like, 'why **** is Roy playing Maye? He's garbage!' Then Maye shows big against FSU and hits the **** at UK. Still, he didn't do all that much.

This year's Luke Maye looks completely different. He's confident, has a gorgeous stroke, and honestly is so much more athletic than the last two years. I'm not sure what he did in the offseason, but he is much quicker and gets off the floor quickly. He had a dunk against Barton on the baseline that blew me away. That is not the Maye I know.

What I am curious to see is if this is who he is, or does he regress to the mean. We'll find out eventually.

Again Berry is a very good college guard but not an all time great like Unc fans think he is.Frankly Meeks should have been the MOP at the FF last year.Still maintain that the key to your success is whether or not you can get average ACC play from your freshman bigs.If you do y'all will have a good year.It is much too early to know what you have yet

 

[QC Dukie]

Berry is a good college pg. Dominant? No. I definitely see Trevon not shutting Berry down, but neutralizing him somewhat. Without Berry having big games against us, we beat them handily both games. They have no answer for Grayson or our bigs down low.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Again Berry is a very good college guard but not an all time great like Unc fans think he is.Frankly Meeks should have been the MOP at the FF last year.Still maintain that the key to your success is whether or not you can get average ACC play from your freshman bigs.If you do y'all will have a good year.It is much too early to know what you have yet

I wasn’t aware many UNC fans claimed Berry to be an all-time great. He’s a great college PG who understands Roy’s systems.

Berry is a good college pg. Dominant? No. I definitely see Trevon not shutting Berry down, but neutralizing him somewhat. Without Berry having big games against us, we beat them handily both games. They have no answer for Grayson or our bigs down low.

Wait, you think a freshman Trevon is going to neutralize a senior Berry? I suppose it’s possible. Dennis Smith Jr, who I believe is much better than Duval, couldn’t do it last year.

I think throwing Williams and Pinson at Allen all game will help, but Allen will get his. As for the bigs, on paper you should have the edge but Maye is much improved and Brooks and Manley are showing out much better than expected.

 

[dukesince91]

Are we comparing a senior Berry to a freshman Trevon? Is that like comparing a sophomore Meeks to a freshman Okafor. I hope it works out the same for us.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

I wasn’t aware many UNC fans claimed Berry to be an all-time great. He’s a great college PG who understands Roy’s systems.



Wait, you think a freshman Trevon is going to neutralize a senior Berry? I suppose it’s possible. Dennis Smith Jr, who I believe is much better than Duval, couldn’t do it last year.

I think throwing Williams and Pinson at Allen all game will help, but Allen will get his. As for the bigs, on paper you should have the edge but Maye is much improved and Brooks and Manley are showing out much better than expected.

Yes, it's early in the season, but you obviously haven't seen Duval play if you don't think he can at least neutralize Berry. Also, Smith is much better? Comedy.

 

[hart2chesson]

I wasn’t aware many UNC fans claimed Berry to be an all-time great. He’s a great college PG who understands Roy’s systems.

Is there a "system" Roy has for post video game anger management now?

OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

I wasn’t aware many UNC fans claimed Berry to be an all-time great. He’s a great college PG who understands Roy’s systems.



Wait, you think a freshman Trevon is going to neutralize a senior Berry? I suppose it’s possible. Dennis Smith Jr, who I believe is much better than Duval, couldn’t do it last year.

I think throwing Williams and Pinson at Allen all game will help, but Allen will get his. As for the bigs, on paper you should have the edge but Maye is much improved and Brooks and Manley are showing out much better than expected.

Reread what I said. I didnt say Trevon was going to shut berry down. I said “somewhat” neutralize him. Dennis Smith wasn’t known as a defensive stopper, so not sure why you brought him into the conversation. Maybe maye has improved, but this is Duke not Bucknell or whoever that other cupcake was y’all beat. Our bigs have an edge on paper?? Ummmmm ok.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Yes, it's early in the season, but you obviously haven't seen Duval play if you don't think he can at least neutralize Berry. Also, Smith is much better? Comedy.

Smith is much better. And that's ok.

Reread what I said. I didnt say Trevon was going to shut berry down. I said “somewhat” neutralize him. Dennis Smith wasn’t known as a defensive stopper, so not sure why you brought him into the conversation. Maybe maye has improved, but this is Duke not Bucknell or whoever that other cupcake was y’all beat. Our bigs have an edge on paper?? Ummmmm ok.

To both of you, what are your definitions of neutralize?

Is Trevon a known defensive stopper?

My point about Maye, Brooks, and Manley is that it won't be so easy to just shut down our bigs.

 

[dukiejay]

Yes, it's early in the season, but you obviously haven't seen Duval play if you don't think he can at least neutralize Berry. Also, Smith is much better? Comedy.

Smith is better than Duval.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

Smith is better than Duval.

So he's much better? When compared 4 games into their respective first collegiate seasons?

Smith 16.5ppg/4.2apg
Duval 12.5ppg/8.5apg

Duval has far less turnovers and has played one top 25 game 4 games in. Smith? Zero through his first 4 games.

Wow, Smith is much better. Smh. I'll just let stats debunk your opinion.

 

[topps coach]

I wasn’t aware many UNC fans claimed Berry to be an all-time great. He’s a great college PG who understands Roy’s systems.



Wait, you think a freshman Trevon is going to neutralize a senior Berry? I suppose it’s possible. Dennis Smith Jr, who I believe is much better than Duval, couldn’t do it last year.

I think throwing Williams and Pinson at Allen all game will help, but Allen will get his. As for the bigs, on paper you should have the edge but Maye is much improved and Brooks and Manley are showing out much better than expected.

Y'all have a multi page thread screaming about how stupid it is saying that he is only the sixth best player in the nation.Guess those people didn't take into account the number of blown assists that he had each game.

 

[Showenuff]

SoCal posted what I was about to. Smith is better as he's done far more SO FAR, but that jury is still out gentlemen. Did Smith go to a FF ? Did he win an ACC championship? Did he win a national title? Trevon still can.

 

[hart2chesson]

SoCal posted what I was about to. Smith is better as he's done far more SO FAR, but that jury is still out gentlemen. Did Smith go to a FF ? Did he win an ACC championship? Did he win a national title? Trevon still can.

Amen!

OFC