Typically name calling means you're losing an argument.
*UNC-Cheat grad asking for a reference.........
- Thread starter triadaz
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That is up to the NCAA. There was no embellishment by the media. His name appeared in a book that said bad loan from an agent which will need further investigation. The NCAA will do what it does and typically that is go after KY as hard as it can. If it doesn't most of us will be surprised.
Comparing that to 20 years of academic fraud to keep athletes eligible...kay:
Well then, you also must think that UNC didn’t cheat.
The best that UNC fans can claim is that what UNC did, there was no NCAA by-law specifically outlawing it. (I disagree with this, there's plenty of by-laws they broke, not to mention plenty of other potential infractions that the NCAA failed to adequately investigate.) But that's the best argument UNC can make.
No one can claim they didn't cheat, because they clearly did based on its own investigations. This is true regardless of what the NCAA did or did not do in response.
All of the illegal benefits such as the free rental cars driven by the athletes that were provided by Fats along with the dental issues was conveniently swept under the rug.
If they weren't cheating, why don't they have those classes anymore?
If you don't question the crap the media shovels to get more subscribers/clicks/revenue then I genuinely feel badly for you. It is not old school to question the judgement of those who want to make money and would do almost anything to make that money (look at what MSNBC and FoxNews do with political coverage). People eagerly believe media-creative narratives if they want them to be true but quickly dismiss them if they don't want to. Some peoples' hypocrisy knows no bounds.
The "yah but" argument as in, "Did your program pay players?", "Yah but they paid their players more" has proliferated in the last few years. It is a joke. Every program has players that are paid. Every university puts their kids in easy classes and provides tutors that more than help the kids. The old trick of pointing to a school and saying, "Look how awful they are", so others don't see how bad your own program is, happens all the time. It is a cesspool out there and it needs to be reformed but I would never brag about how we aren't as bad as other programs because I believe strongly that would be a complete lie. Most in the media crucified Ohio State in 2010 for the Tattoo scandal and now paying for tattoos with your own stuff seems trivial. Worse is yet to come out so I will not disparage other schools.
Interesting. UNC fans spent the last 50+ years telling the world that they did things the RIGHT way. They didn't cheat like Kentucky did. They graduated players and played by the rules, etc. Now, they are saying, "Well, yeah, we cheated but we still didn't cheat as bad as everyone else." or they say, "Everyone does it."
Hypocrisy exposed!!!!!
Again we know what was in the UNC reports. That wasn't the media. Media is an easy target but UNC ran a diploma mill for its players.
No, the NCAA is famous for selective prosecution. It will be up to the NCAA whether we vacate games. UNC ran a diploma mill for its players for 20 years. You can pretend that didn't happen but that goes to the heart of being an educational institution or just being a school that will do anything to hang some banners.
Unlike UNC who spent around $20 million on PR firms and lawyers to drag their scandal out for 7 years Kentucky will fully cooperate and turn over any and all evidence to the NCAA.
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Exactly! Their hypocrisy was exposed and so every fan should stop bragging about their programs integrity because more is coming. Everyone does cheat, but the archaic NCAA rules, which were created when revenue-producing sports were making millions not billions, are part of the problem.
You use the term diploma mill like you are Rachel Maddow or Sean Hannity. I haven't read a bunch about the North Carolina issue but your comment seems extreme. Can you please point out in the UNC reports where it says diploma mill or at least defines their cheating as diploma mill? I ask because someone in the media gets a hold of a term like that and runs with it, even when it isn't true.
You pretty much admit you have no idea what has gone on here. Cool, I think I am finished discussing this with you.
Please name a program you think is completely clean. Throw out the Ivy League schools if you want.
So your answer to my request to provide proof is to end the conversation. I guess we are done.
Going back to the original point, I still think taking the rivalry of sport and applying it outside of the sports arena (in this case for a reference) is too much. However, asking for a reference for a guy you don't know is also a bit too much.
Wow, it's like deja vu. It would have been more impressive if you and crestcat could have said that together.
To spend time pulling up all the documentation for someone who is arguing from ignorance on an issue that went on for 20 years with multiple internal investigations by UNC who exposed their underbelly to the world and then to pretend they did nothing wrong. Not going to waste my time.
Everyone does it became the standard cheater motto only when UNC was outed. All the other schools took their punishment without that whiny excuse.
I wasn't trying to be difficult but too often people throw out claims from the media that just aren't true. You used the term "diploma factory" and that sounded like something someone in the media would say to make the story more interesting and get more clicks. I just wanted to see proof of your claim because I don't buy into the narrative.
Pat Forde just came out with another article on the recent scandals, "https://www.yahoo.com/sports/new-charges-college-hoops-corruption-case-mean-182225446.html". He has been spoon feeding this stuff out there to get more clicks, just hoping more dirt with show up. I don't trust the media at all so I am skeptical of all claims.
Everyone who gets caught either spins it into a media fabrication or uses the "everyone does it" excuse (Kansas has started calling themselves "victims"). I just happen to believe both are true to a degree. The truth is the public, like us, don't ever know the true story.
I used the term diploma mill. You do your own reading which you have obviously not done.
Don't know why you are getting personal. I was just asking questions. It is easy to claim something but much harder to prove it. We will just have to agree to disagree.
No show lecture classes. High grades little real work. Professor in Africa while supposed to be teaching professors names forged on grade reports and class schedules.
Students not knowing their major until they get diploma. Students taking African studies don't know where the African studies building is on campus. Academic counsellors telling department secretary what grade to give.
Secretary with a bachelors doing assignments and grading. Academic counsellors thought secretary was the department head!
Diploma mill!!!!!
USC felt their punishment was unfair but never heard their fans whine that "everyone does it". That phrase only became popular when the golden boy, UNC, got exposed.
ObjectivelyModerate is being deliberately obtuse or he is just ignorant of the details.
It was clearly a diploma mill. I did a research project on diploma mills several years ago. It was an interesting study.
UNC been cheating for decades...self righteous hypocrisy knows no bounds...
Go read the Wainstein report and get back to us.
Or go read the Raleigh N&O investigative articles by Dan Kane and get back to us. But don't come here demanding for proof out of your own ignorance on the topic.
You are claiming your defense is your ignorance. Well, certainly the word ignorance is appropriate. The Filth ran a diploma mill based on the fact that it ran an institution that issued degrees based in part on substandard classes. SACS put them on probation over those classes. The classes were found unworthy of consideration in conferring a degree. The Filth admitted this in its response to SACS. The Filth admitted it committed academic fraud to the NCAA. It did this for nearly 20 years. None of this is in dispute. The Filth claimed only that the NCAA had no jurisdiction over its academic corruption. The NCAA rolled over and conceded the matter after years of feigning diligence. The Filth and the NCAA have made a sham of the once proud sport of college basketball. Again, none of this is in dispute.
The Filth's basketball results over the past 20 years are fraudulent. They were based on ineligible players due to the fraudulent classes. They cheated us ALL for two decades. The program is utterly contemptible. Those that run and support this fraud are similarly despicable.
This is not name calling. This is simply applying words to a set of circumstances as Webster's defines those words. That program is FILTH. The fact that anyone would try to defend The Filth calls their own reputation into question.
Great, then you can show proof. I am not being obtuse but when people throw out "facts", I like to see proof. For example, as an Ohio-born basketball fan, I truly despise Bobby Knight. However, despite his awful reputation, I don't believe things that are said about him until I see proof. When you willingly accept only what you want to believe, you create the awful political environment that we have in this country today where partisans see only the evils of the other party. So please, just show me proof of their diploma mill in one of the reports martinm mentions.
I love refreshing my memory on why unc is a diploma mill so I don't mind at all
I am not nor do I care to defend North Carolina. This is an exercise in figuring out how people create the truths in their lives. I am asking for proof. Diatribes aren't proof. Just show me a link to the the reports you mentioned that show all the information you mentioned above. With the knowledge of the cheating you are showing above, you must have picked up this information from the reports. Just link those.
Thank you. I appreciate you doing that. Then I will be more informed as well when UNC fans say the media and fans are lying.
I already told u what was in multiple reports. Most of it was in emails. Sorry but if u r too lazy to read I cannot help you. I don't have time for that.
Why is it our responsibility to look it up for you? If you really want to know there is a cool little search tool called Google that will help you find just about anything and I am sure even a UNC fan figure out how to use it.
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