UK Cheerleading Cleaning House

[Lead Belly]

I say I don't know because all I have to go on is what other people write. I criticized a couple of poster not for not knowing the facts, but for claiming that they did. BTW, do you know that the coaches were fired to avoid a lawsuit or are you speculating? Looks to me like firing the coaches is a public admission that some serious misconduct took place.

I know for a fact.

It's not. It's an effort to avoid having to pay legal fees and a potential settlement in the current overzealous legal system when it comes to these types of issues.

You have over 700 former and current cheerleaders coming to the defense of the staff. You have 1 girl and mom not getting what they felt entitled to who originated this, and now they are playing the victim. It just so happens this same family has a history of this behavior. It's not hard for anyone to figure out what is going on here.

 

[Doc4UK!]

Overbearing helicopter cheerleader Mom with immature enabled daughter not ready to accept challenges on her own Classic case unfortunately

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I have no clue what happened. But, the reaction on here is truly astounding. The mother and daughter reported something that nobody involved has denied. The school took action after an investigation was completed. Slandering the whistle blower is a useless exercise unless accompanied by facts that disprove UK's conclusions. So far, no new facts have appeared. Raising hell about whistle blowers and complaining about punishment imposed used to bring hoots of derision on this board. Of course those complaints involved a different school.

Umm, you have no idea what happened but yet, you're astounded by reactions? I'm not sure how you marry those two. At any rate, in reading about the hazing incident, it wasn't hazing, not even close. It was playful nonsense. Yes, apparently 4 cheerleaders were naked to some degree or another but the way things are written, it makes it out to seem like a Roman orgy. Why they chose to do that, who knows. Kids do stupid things. They have made statements that some of the things they did they did behind the coaches backs. The drinking was apparently also limited and punishment was given for it. This MOUNTAIN is little more than a molehill. Suspending some kids and coaches over this would be appropriate. Considering the limited nature of the worst offenses, firing is overkill. I hope Karen's precious little girl is run off campus.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

If you don't know, why comment and then criticize others for commenting without knowing?

Karen Oldham and her daughter were the initial whistleblowers that launched the investigation. 2 other cheerleaders gave statements to the university via the same attorney during the investigation. They confirmed some of things like there being alcohol snuck in and that people were topless or nude. They did not confirm that anyone was forced to do anything, that alcohol was provided by coaches or that they were hazed.

If they already lied to UK, it's not really hard to imagine they would lie to the general public. Particularly now that she is getting backlash and alleged threats.

There really is nothing else. It's all been pretty public. UK just wanted to avoid the costs of a potential lawsuit because that is what the Oldham's threatened.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/5229721002

Now Karen is threatening lawsuits against those who have "threatened" her and her daughter. I'm guessing she doesn't know the difference between a threat and a wish.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

Now Karen is threatening lawsuits against those who have "threatened" her and her daughter. I'm guessing she doesn't know the difference between a threat and a wish.

 

[UK90]

Ole Karen hasn't decided who she's gonna sue yet, but she's clearly looking to sue someone:

“There is no way any parent can say it is okay for a coach to watch naked athletes in any fashion,” she said in a Facebook comment. “I’m glad our daughter was not a participant. Just so sad for all and I pray the victims heal. There were so many crazy findings we had no clue. It has been amazing how some have resurfaced lol to give me full credit of my name Karen. To this date we have sued no one but I am definitely looking at it in the near future.

“Someone will be held accountable for these abusive acts. We have been threatened and I will always protect my kids.”

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/education/article242865776.html

 

[transpac]

I know for a fact.

It's not. It's an effort to avoid having to pay legal fees and a potential settlement in the current overzealous legal system when it comes to these types of issues.

You have over 700 former and current cheerleaders coming to the defense of the staff. You have 1 girl and mom not getting what they felt entitled to who originated this, and now they are playing the victim. It just so happens this same family has a history of this behavior. It's not hard for anyone to figure out what is going on here.

I know how things such as this work through over 20 years of experience as an investigator for government entities including educational institutions.. I'm going to try one last time to explain why you're far out in left field and you can take it or leave it, I couldn't care less:

You do not have the credibility of 700 former and current cheerleaders pitted against one cheerleader and her mother. This could have been the situation before the investigation started, but that time has passed. It makes zero difference who reported the event to UK or even how the events became known at all. It likewise makes zero difference whether or not the reporting person or persons has done this before or if that person(s) had ulterior motives. The only facts that matter is whether or not the allegations are made-up or true, if other deficiencies are uncovered, and if the facts require corrective action. . In this case deficiencies were substantiated by the investigators and UK leadership weighed their report and judged the seriousness of the matter(s). Their solution was to terminate the coaches. Calling the Oldham family names may be satisfying to some. But, whether or not they're popular on a message board means squat to the outcome of UK's investigation.

 

[Lead Belly]

I know how things such as this work through over 20 years of experience as an investigator for government entities including educational institutions.. I'm going to try one last time to explain why you're far out in left field and you can take it or leave it, I couldn't care less:

You do not have the credibility of 700 former and current cheerleaders pitted against one cheerleader and her mother. This could have been the situation before the investigation started, but that time has passed. It makes zero difference who reported the event to UK or even how the events became known at all. It likewise makes zero difference whether or not the reporting person or persons has done this before or if that person(s) had ulterior motives. The only facts that matter is whether or not the allegations are made-up or true, if other deficiencies are uncovered, and if the facts require corrective action. . In this case deficiencies were substantiated by the investigators and UK leadership weighed their report and judged the seriousness of the matter(s). Their solution was to terminate the coaches. Calling the Oldham family names may be satisfying to some. But, whether or not they're popular on a message board means squat to the outcome of UK's investigation.

Sure bud, if you say so....

 

[Doc4UK!]

The punishment did not fit the crime. The administration could have easily suspended any further retreats and could have placed the coaches under probation. If this had been a soccer or volleyball retreat do not believe it would have been handled the same way.

 

[Lead Belly]

The punishment did not fit the crime. The administration could have easily suspended any further retreats and could have placed the coaches under probation. If this had been a soccer or volleyball retreat do not believe it would have been handled the same way.

Exactly. If this were coach Cal and basketball or Mark Stoops in football, it would have been handled completely different.

 

[transpac]

The punishment did not fit the crime. The administration could have easily suspended any further retreats and could have placed the coaches under probation. If this had been a soccer or volleyball retreat do not believe it would have been handled the same way.

So UK leadership overreacted but it's still the Oldham ladies fault? I didn't know that the UK investigation report had been made public but apparently you guys know all the details in it. Where can I read it?

 

[Lead Belly]

So UK leadership overreacted but it's still the Oldham ladies fault? I didn't know that the UK investigation report had been made public but apparently you guys know all the details in it. Where can I read it?

Is this Karen?

I'm going to give you a little hint.....if you go to google and search for UK cheerleading investigation report, it is the very first result listed. [winking]

You're welcome! And the more you know, the less ignorant you will look.

 

[transpac]

Is this Karen?

I'm going to give you a little hint.....if you go to google and search for UK cheerleading investigation report, it is the very first result listed. [winking]

You're welcome! And the more you know, the less ignorant you will look.

Thank you! Unlike a few others on here, if I don't know something I don't mind asking questions. And, even with the abuse you saw fit to include your info was useful.

 

[Lead Belly]

Thank you! Unlike a few others on here, if I don't know something I don't mind asking questions. And, even with the abuse you saw fit to include your info was useful.

No problem, but I have to say I am really shocked a 20 yr veteran government investigator couldn't find that without my help. Maybe I am in the wrong career field.

 

[Kybluedude]

^ Ouch... that’s gonna leave a mark.

 

[transpac]

No problem, but I have to say I am really shocked a 20 yr veteran government investigator couldn't find that without my help. Maybe I am in the wrong career field.

Maybe because I've got other things to do and hadn't looked for it. I trust UK administrators enough to believe they're not going to fire four coaches based on an unsupported complaint from a "helicopter parent". But, now that I've read the report I'm even more surprised by several reactions. As I mentioned and the report verifies, the only facts investigated were related to the incident not to the motivation of the informant. The coaches' only defense was the "I didn't know" excuse they apparently borrowed from Pitino. It didn't work for Pitino even though he was never proven to have personal knowledge of the debauchery and illegality going on in his program. Pitino was rightfully condemned because it's a coach's job to know. These coaches not only knew, (unless they turned their heads and stuffed their ears) they were on the scene and participated in the party. The one fact I wish the report included but didn't is how long this kind of stuff had been going on. The report documents that hazing, conflicts of interest, and gross immorality was an old tradition with this group. Evidently UK had long wanted to clean up the cheerleader program and this was a golden opportunity.

 

[Lead Belly]

Maybe because I've got other things to do and hadn't looked for it. I trust UK administrators enough to believe they're not going to fire four coaches based on an unsupported complaint from a "helicopter parent". But, now that I've read the report I'm even more surprised by several reactions. As I mentioned and the report verifies, the only facts investigated were related to the incident not to the motivation of the informant. The coaches' only defense was the "I didn't know" excuse they apparently borrowed from Pitino. It didn't work for Pitino even though he was never proven to have personal knowledge of the debauchery and illegality going on in his program. Pitino was rightfully condemned because it's a coach's job to know. These coaches not only knew, (unless they turned their heads and stuffed their ears) they were on the scene and participated in the party. The one fact I wish the report included but didn't is how long this kind of stuff had been going on. The report documents that hazing, conflicts of interest, and gross immorality was an old tradition with this group. Evidently UK had long wanted to clean up the cheerleader program and this was a golden opportunity.

Lol, so you admittedly knew nothing but felt the need to chime in with ignorance void of any fact because you have trust for UK administrators?

By no account did the coaches know and they certainly did not party with the students as you are claiming. Where are you getting this ****? If the coaches knew, why did the players admit to go to lengths to conceal it and reiterate that the coaches informed them multiple times alcohol was not allowed and by all accounts had a strict alcohol policy. Why were they also admittedly punished after the incident came to light by the coaches long before the investigation occured?

Pitino was caught directly in correspondence with people paying recruits discussing said payements and players. A UL coach hired and paid escorts, some underage, to perform services for players, underage recruits and in 1 instance a players dad. They did all of this on campus, in a dorm. Pitino is also the one who had the affair, impregnated Karen Sypher, paid to cover it up and then got extorted by her. How the **** do you equate that to this situation?

The "Hazing" consisted of getting athetes to recite a cheer from the 70's, which they weren't even forced to do. LMAO, you call that hazing or consider it serious or warrenting termination?

The conflict of interest consisted of the coaches hiring some of the top cheerleaders in the country to coach cheer and tumbling in a gym. Others were offered jobs doing yard work. All were paid well above minimum wage. Ohhhh God, the humanity of this!!! How could they be so cruel to help offer college kids to make money doing things they are in cases uniquely qualified for. [laughing]

Lol, gross immorality? Where?

Lol, where are you getting UK has long wanted to clean up a 20 time national championship program? Please provide some kind of evidence to support this ludicrous claim.

Try again, Karen!

 

[transpac]

Lol, so you admittedly knew nothing but felt the need to chime in with ignorance void of any fact because you have trust for UK administrators?

By no account did the coaches know and they certainly did not party with the students as you are claiming. Where are you getting this ****? If the coaches knew, why did the players admit to go to lengths to conceal it and reiterate that the coaches informed them multiple times alcohol was not allowed and by all accounts had a strict alcohol policy. Why were they also admittedly punished after the incident came to light by the coaches long before the investigation occured?

Pitino was caught directly in correspondence with people paying recruits discussing said payements and players. A UL coach hired and paid escorts, some underage, to perform services for players, underage recruits and in 1 instance a players dad. They did all of this on campus, in a dorm. Pitino is also the one who had the affair, impregnated Karen Sypher, paid to cover it up and then got extorted by her. How the **** do you equate that to this situation?

The "Hazing" consisted of getting athetes to recite a cheer from the 70's, which they weren't even forced to do. LMAO, you call that hazing or consider it serious or warrenting termination?

The conflict of interest consisted of the coaches hiring some of the top cheerleaders in the country to coach cheer and tumbling in a gym. Others were offered jobs doing yard work. All were paid well above minimum wage. Ohhhh God, the humanity of this!!! How could they be so cruel to help offer college kids to make money doing things they are in cases uniquely qualified for. [laughing]

Lol, gross immorality? Where?

Lol, where are you getting UK has long wanted to clean up a 20 time national championship program? Please provide some kind of evidence to support this ludicrous claim.

Try again, Karen!

It's really hard to have a debate with someone who keeps making up their own facts. Everything I've written comes from common sense, experience, and the UK report. But, I'll try.

"By no account did the coaches know and they certainly did not party with the students as you are claiming. Where are you getting this ****?"

That information came from the UK investigation report you so helpfully pointed to. One exerpt is: Coach Head was drinking and drinking in front of them. Student was on boat with Coach Head and saw him drink. There were Jello shots, white claws. Another is the statement that 1/2 to 3/4 of the cheerleaders participated in the nude basket toss and many of them drank alcohol. The head Coach punished them by making them run. If the coach was unaware of this activity what were they punished for?

Lol, so you admittedly knew nothing but felt the need to chime in with ignorance void of any fact because you have trust for UK administrators?

By no account did the coaches know and they certainly did not party with the students as you are claiming. Where are you getting this ****? If the coaches knew, why did the players admit to go to lengths to conceal it and reiterate that the coaches informed them multiple times alcohol was not allowed and by all accounts had a strict alcohol policy. Why were they also admittedly punished after the incident came to light by the coaches long before the investigation occured?

Pitino was caught directly in correspondence with people paying recruits discussing said payements and players. A UL coach hired and paid escorts, some underage, to perform services for players, underage recruits and in 1 instance a players dad. They did all of this on campus, in a dorm. Pitino is also the one who had the affair, impregnated Karen Sypher, paid to cover it up and then got extorted by her. How the **** do you equate that to this situation?

The "Hazing" consisted of getting athetes to recite a cheer from the 70's, which they weren't even forced to do. LMAO, you call that hazing or consider it serious or warrenting termination?

The conflict of interest consisted of the coaches hiring some of the top cheerleaders in the country to coach cheer and tumbling in a gym. Others were offered jobs doing yard work. All were paid well above minimum wage. Ohhhh God, the humanity of this!!! How could they be so cruel to help offer college kids to make money doing things they are in cases uniquely qualified for. [laughing]

Lol, gross immorality? Where?

Lol, where are you getting UK has long wanted to clean up a 20 time national championship program? Please provide some kind of evidence to support this ludicrous claim.

Try again, Karen!

Good God!!! read the damn report! And you might reflect that what you deem moral might not seem all that moral to parents of college students.

 

[Lead Belly]

It's really hard to have a debate with someone who keeps making up their own facts. Everything I've written comes from common sense, experience, and the UK report. But, I'll try.

"By no account did the coaches know and they certainly did not party with the students as you are claiming. Where are you getting this ****?"

That information came from the UK investigation report you so helpfully pointed to. One exerpt is: Coach Head was drinking and drinking in front of them. Student was on boat with Coach Head and saw him drink. There were Jello shots, white claws. Another is the statement that 1/2 to 3/4 of the cheerleaders participated in the nude basket toss and many of them drank alcohol. The head Coach punished them by making them run. If the coach was unaware of this activity what were they punished for?

Good God!!! read the damn report! And you might reflect that what you deem moral might not seem all that moral to parents of college students.

I am not making up anything, you just seem confused by what you are reading. There were a couple of reports of 1 of the coaches having a drink on a boat rented by the alumni that allegedly had white claw and jello shots provided by the alumni. There were also reports no coaches were seen drinking. That makes that a conflicting statement. Certainly doesn't explain why you would justify firing 4 coaches and an adivsor.

All of those interviewed stated the head coach was very adamant about there being no alcohol brought or consumed by the student-athletes, and that he even made them run when it was brought to his attention that rule had been violated. That certainly doesn't indicate coaches were "partying" with students.

The basket toss portion did not make any claims of alcohol being related. It did say some people opted to go topless, but did not confirm coaches were actually present or knew. Only 2 have actually been confirmed to have gone topless according to the report. How is some grown adults going topless of their own free will an offense that warrents the coaches termination?

I have read it multiple times, which is why can so easily highlight your ingorant, unsubstantiated claims. [winking]

My morals or others morals really has little to do with it, but I do feel the actual rule violators should be held accountable. Particularly if they are of legal age, which these student athletes all were. If you read closely, most of these acts were deemed violations of the STUDENT code of conduct.

Try again, Karen!

 

[transpac]

I am not making up anything, you just seem confused by what you are reading. There were a couple of reports of 1 of the coaches having a drink on a boat rented by the Alumni that allegedly had white claw and jello shots provided by the alumni. There were also reports no coaches were seen drinking. That makes that a conflicting statement. Certainly doesn't explain why you wild justify firing 4 cosches and an adivsor.

All of those interviewed stated the head coach was very adamant about there being no alcohol brought or consumed by the student-athletes and that he even made them run when it was brought to his attention that rule had been violated. That certainly doesn't indicate coaches were "partying" with students.

The basket toss portion did not make any claims of alcohol being related. It did say some people opted to go topless, but did not confirm coaches were actually present or knew. Only 2 have actually been confirmed to have gone topless according to the report. How is some grown adults going topless of their own free will an offense that warrents the coaches termination?

I have read it multiple times, which is why can so easily highlight your ingorant, unsubstantiated claims. [winking]

My morals or others really has little to do with it. But I do feel the actual rule violators should be held accountable. Particularly of they are of legal age, which these student athletes all were.

Try again, Karen!

Did you read the part about the head coach making all but two cheerleaders run laps as punishment for drinking and nude tosses? Wonder why he punished them for things he didn't even know happened? BTW, the two who were not punished were too drunk to run. If you really think UK fired them for no reason but at the same time UK had no interest in changing the leadership of the program, you're going to drive yourself (and me) crazy. And "knowing" that the only reason the coaches were fired was to avoid a frivolous lawsuit doesn't pass the smell test. The problem with this (if true) is that UK will now face not-so-frivolous lawsuits for unlawfully dismissing four innocent and hard working employees. I really don't believe UK leadership is that stupid but apparently you do.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Did you read the part about the head coach making all but two cheerleaders run laps as punishment for drinking and nude tosses? Wonder why he punished them for things he didn't even know happened? BTW, the two who were not punished were too drunk to run. If you really think UK fired them for no reason but at the same time UK had no interest in changing the leadership of the program, you're going to drive yourself (and me) crazy. And "knowing" that the only reason the coaches were fired was to avoid a frivolous lawsuit doesn't pass the smell test. The problem with this (if true) is that UK will now face not-so-frivolous lawsuits for unlawfully dismissing four innocent and hard working employees. I really don't believe UK leadership is that stupid but apparently you do.

How about a link to that. I haven't seen it.

 

[transpac]

How about a link to that. I haven't seen it.

Summary of statements made by cheerleaders who were there. Bottom of page 4 of the investigative report.

BTW, I'm done with this thread, already wasted too much time on here.

 

[Lead Belly]

Did you read the part about the head coach making all but two cheerleaders run laps as punishment for drinking and nude tosses? Wonder why he punished them for things he didn't even know happened? BTW, the two who were not punished were too drunk to run. If you really think UK fired them for no reason but at the same time UK had no interest in changing the leadership of the program, you're going to drive yourself (and me) crazy. And "knowing" that the only reason the coaches were fired was to avoid a frivolous lawsuit doesn't pass the smell test. The problem with this (if true) is that UK will now face not-so-frivolous lawsuits for unlawfully dismissing four innocent and hard working employees. I really don't believe UK leadership is that stupid but apparently you do.

[laughing] He found out about it after the fact, which is when he punished them. Anyone with a functioning braincell should have gotten that. Haha, are you implying he punished them beforehand or after he would have allowed them to drink? [laughing] Sweet Lord, what world do you live in.

I, and most others with actual knowledge, think the university overreacted in their punishments. That's one of the reasons tbis case has generated so much attention. Even by UK's own report, many of the claims were unfounded and based on heresy with conflicting claims. That's not really solid evidence.

KY is an at will employment state. Anyone can be fired without cause. The fact UK felt the need to add the conflict of interest should tell you UK feels the need to add something they can protect themselves with if needed.

You might want to get your nose checked, sounds like your sniffer may be broke.[winking]

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Summary of statements made by cheerleaders who were there. Bottom of page 4 of the investigative report.

BTW, I'm done with this thread, already wasted too much time on here.

Ok, read it. Kids being kids and doing their best to hide it from coaches, yet coaches are fired. Pope Mitch needs to go.