TJ Green?
- Thread starter Wildcatfootball12
- Start date
Kansas City Chief camp was as far as he made it. He played in the CFL though and was a 3x FCS All-American though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Santos
That UNH QB was Ricky Santos. He was undrafted, signed by the Chiefs, and released a month later. He then went to Canada and bounced around as roster flotsam for about 4 seasons.
He then retired from football and became a backup singer for Canadian tribute rock bands that covered April Wine, Triumph, Kim Mitchell, Honeymoon Suite, and the Northern Pikes. He also had a cooking show on the local access channel in Winnipeg and married a female lumberjack.
OK. That last paragraph is a bunch of bald-faced lies but there is nothing better to talk about.
Flacco also started at Pitt and transferred to Delaware so not sure I understand the point in this context
I looked it up, and the UNH QB was Ricky Santos. http://www.espn.in/college-football/boxscore?gameId=262520077
Of note, UNH's Offensive Coordinator that day was none other than Chip Kelly. That was a rough season, on many levels.
C'mon guys, are you guys joking? Carson Wentz couldn't even get a preferred walk on for a power 5 conference and ended up at NDSU. Tony Romo couldn't get a power 5 scholarship and I think went to Eastern Illinois? I could rattle off another dozen NFL qb's who couldn't even get a preferred walkin like Green did at a power 5 conference. And that's just the NFL. So, No, Green isn't an exception at QB if he plays. Fitz has him on the depth chart ahead of the QB who GCG is locked down on. And that isn't because Fitz is being nice. GCG has gone after my Green comments for years.
I don’t know anything about any of the Division 2 quarterbacks you’ve listed other than Joe Flacco, but I can tell you that Flacco had Division 1, power 5 offers. In fact, he transferred to Delaware from Pitt after someone else beat him out as a starter. I forget all the names but when Delaware was a Division 2 power it historically started transfers from Power 5 programs who wanted to play at a successful program but didn’t want to sit out for a year as they would have if they had transferred to a Division 1 program.
I don't know what was up with Delaware but it was a monster power. Believe me, I love Youngstown State and we had to play Delaware for several Championships. I think we had Stout and Jaworski (2 more Div 2 guys who went to the NFL and played a lot)
We should just stop recruiting and go all in on walk-on's, I mean they flourish every once in awhile so why not.
Think he also played with NUMB.
As you know, BTN occasionally runs features on "Legends" of the Big 10, and of course Graham is Northwestern's contribution to the show. In that program, Otto's son gently debunks the notion that his dad ever actually performed in NU's band. (He couldn't do everything.) He was an accomplished high-school musician (not only on trumpet), however, and certainly could have played with NUMB if his schedule had permitted rehearsals as well as public appearances.
I really commend that BTN program as it is likely to show up in off-season scheduling. It was when he coached the 1957 College All-Stars who then lived and trained at NU. As previously described on this board, that summer while attending NU's Cherub program I was privileged to chat with Otto as he waited to conduct a skull session on the grass outside Bobb Hall.
He had every reason to dismiss me (as after some minutes he had to do!) but he was remarkably patient in answering questions and even feigning interest in how my high-school team would be doing back in Arizona.
Some celebrities, perhaps many, may be jerks. Not Graham. Did anyone ever have anything bad to say about him?
As you know, BTN occasionally runs features on "Legends" of the Big 10, and of course Graham is Northwestern's contribution to the show. In that program, Otto's son gently debunks the notion that his dad ever actually performed in NU's band. (He couldn't do everything.) He was an accomplished high-school musician (not only on trumpet), however, and certainly could have played with NUMB if his schedule had permitted rehearsals as well as public appearances.
I really commend that BTN program as it is likely to show up in off-season scheduling. It was when he coached the 1957 College All-Stars who then lived and trained at NU. As previously described on this board, that summer while attending NU's Cherub program I was privileged to chat with Otto as he waited to conduct a skull session on the grass outside Bobb Hall.
He had every reason to dismiss me (as after some minutes he had to do!) but he was remarkably patient in answering questions and even feigning interest in how my high-school team would be doing back in Arizona.
Some celebrities, perhaps many, may be jerks. Not Graham. Did anyone ever have anything bad to say about him?
Thanks for the explanation. I thought he might be referring to Ben Roethlisberger.
Thanks, Ecat, that was really enlightening. I had completely left out those who went to the "lesser" schools, focusing on NU only. Wentz is the current prime example of someone from a "lesser" school who made it. If you have read some of my prior comments, the idea that the 4 and 5 stars are the best of everyone out there, it just isn't so. There is hundreds of thousands of players in high schools who play each year and only a handful get the coveted 5 star rating. Most warrant them but there are always those who are overlooked as noted in your litany of recognized QB's. And not having the measurable s mentioned for TJ is real as well. So let's watch the competition and see if CT recovers quickly and returns. And THEN make our usual snap judgements and discussions until the opening kickoff
If I have learned anything about the success of quarterbacks from being a fan of the Washington Redskins for 40 years (I know, thank you for your condolences.), it is that what's between the ears matters a whole lot more than the measurables. Anybody's guess on that until a QB faces game speed and 50,000 fans. So I don't put much stock in the ongoing speculation.
Pat Devlin is another quarterback who played at Delaware who went on to play in the pros. However, just like Flacco he was not snubbed by Division 1 programs. He played two years at Penn State and then transferred to Delaware because he was not going to be a starter.
How the Sam Hill have we gone from talking about graduate transfers/walk on’s to listing all successful non power 5 QB’s? We do realize that population of QB’s is About 1000 every single year?
Bummer. That was a pretty aspirational post-football bio and I so wanted it to be true. I would have paid good $ to see a killer cover of Honeymoon Suite's "What Does It Take?"
Who can forget that Terry Bradshaw went to Louisiana Tech and that George Blanda went to El Paso City College or that Y.A. Tittle went to Devry?
Look, I understand if you feel Green is not the guy. But I do not recall reasons mentioned for that position. Just your terse response. Now that Alviti is gone, we really do not know who is behind CT. So if you have some specifics on why you think TJ will be beat out, fine.. Willing to listen
Colt Brennan originally signed with Colorado but was booted out of Colorado because of a sexual 'indiscretion'.
I didn't bother checking the rest for errors.
Ahhh...the 1980s power ballad. Nothing else like it on the planet. I always thought "New Girl Now" was underrated. Kinda like the Smithereens "Girl Like You."
Santos is actually quarterback coach at Columbia. I did not realize how good he was at UNH--playoffs all 4 years, most passing records, Hula Bowl.
Lou - maybe you can ring up Coach Santos for an interview? We need something to fill the space here. Might be fun to talk to him about that dark day in Evanston, his journey through Canadian football, and have him opine on Ivy football vs. NU.
How about it Lou? If you don't want to, I would be willing to. I love talking with random people.
My point is I don’t think there are many if any posters in this board who can do anything more than speculate about who ascends to starter without Clayton in the mix. You said IYO, Marty is the leader with Green as his main competition. You said Smith is behind. This apears to be based on 2017 depth chart listing Green as third. I am saying, I don’t think many of us have seen anything but HS tape on these 3. I don’t think you flew across the pond to watch a few practices, I live 15 miles away and I saw nothing other than open practice, so to characterize Green as the main competition to Marty with Smith “behind” seems like a huge leap to me. Green might very well win the job, but who knows right now.
FWIW, I have heard from people that have seen them throw that Smith is definitely in the mix. No idea if this is accurate or not, but Smith has been in the system as long as anyone. Not trying to be argumentative, but we need more info besides HS tape to elevate or demote anyone on the depth. Fact is it is up in the air. If Smith is behind, I don’t believe it is by much or that it is only a two horse battle.
No let's not. I nearly forgot that loss to UNH ever happened, don't need to be opening up old wounds again.
I suggest that we start giving Fitz and Green credit and stop this GCG insanity that Green isn't competing when in fact Fitz has him higher up the depth chart than GCG's favorite pick. Every time Teddy mentions something, GCG has a Barbie tantrum. Maybe Fitz knows a thing or two about Green.
A couple things going on here:
1) All I've got to go on are the available tape from each player (at this point, senior highlights) and what I've heard about practice performance from people whose opinion I trust. Here's the most recent tape I could find for each of Green, Smith, and Marty:
Green makes some nice throws, but I'm not convinced he has the arm to consistently fit the ball into the tight windows as should be expected of a starter at the P5 level; I've also heard that 6-2 would be an extremely, um, optimistic height from those who have physically stood next to him. I know his dad was a late-bloomer and all so he could very well have grown some since I heard that, but I haven't seen anything noticeable from him on the sideline or in limited game action. Mostly his high school tape looks like a guy about whom you should be extremely excited as a walk-on (and I was and still am), but very skeptical about as a potential multi-year starter.
Smith also makes some decent throws, but I'm not entirely convinced on his arm strength either. He has a tendency to "cup" the ball, which saps arm strength, though he does show some nice touch. He also runs around pretty well on tape, but not sure he's fast/athletic enough to really threaten a P5 defense with his legs.
Marty is a big, raw kid on that tape with a lot of room for development. That said, he does have a very "projectable" frame and release. He's a long way from a finished product, but has a high ceiling.
2) Assuming Thorson isn't healthy enough to go (or if, say, a 75% Thorson is still not better than a 100% Marty), the coaches will have to make a decision that weighs both short- and long-term considerations.
Putting aside Alviti's health issues for a moment, the situation is in some ways similar to the Thorson/Alviti/Oliver decision the coaches had to make going into the 2015 season: do you go with the veteran who's more of a known commodity (Oliver), the young guy with the highest ceiling (Thorson), or the guy who's somewhere in between (Alviti)? The coaches chose Thorson because they believed him to be the best choice on balance, giving the team a good chance to win games now while developing to be even better in the future with a considerably high ceiling.
The 2018 decision is a little different in that Green isn't nearly as experienced as Oliver and Smith is much less experienced than Alviti, but Marty is very similar to Thorson in that they were both easily the highest-ceiling guys with the least experience.
So, if you want to wrap it all up: if Thorson isn't ready/able to go for the 2018 opener, my guess is Marty is the starter given what I have seen on tape/heard from practices and based on the coaching staff's past decision to pick the lesser-experienced, higher-ceiling guy in a similar situation.
Look, I'm all for Green surprising me to become the starter in 2018 and leading the team on our upward trajectory because it will mean he's taken tremendous strides to become a solid P5/B1G-level QB... but feel like Marty probably gives us a better chance long-term.
THanks. To what extent can a guy's arm get stronger or improve enough to get what you need? It would seem TJ has gotten taller regardless of whether he measures up to 6'2" and with the weight room, could he improve enough to overcome your reservations?
In any event, it would seem that the injury to CT might have a silver lining in that guys who would not normally get reps and time with first team will. The downside is that Purdue is the first game of the year
He doesn't have to yet. Plus Green has not made any meaningful appearances yet. If he does, the scholarship would likely be awarded after the season.
Incremental gains can be made in arm strength, but a guy isn't about to go from average arm strength to excellent. "Arm talent" is much more "you've got it if you have it."
The spring reps will be important, both for 2018 and for further into the future... but let's not get too worried about Purdue. It's important in that it is a conference game, but they lose essentially their entire defensive front plus both corners. If anything, it should be a favorable matchup for a young QB to with a veteran (though not overwhelming) OL and skill guys.
Good point. It may actually work in our favor that we meet Purdue early in the schedule given their inexperience on D. Also, they'll have no film on whoever we end up starting at QB if not Thor, so we can maybe fool them with something unexpected. Thorson pulled off that long TD run against Stanford in some part due to the fact that no one outside of NU expected him to have that kind of straight line speed IMO.
Purdue's front 7 was the strength of the team last season, especially against the run. They throttled JJ that game, but our defense was even better.
And, without looking again, I believe they lose 6 of 7 starters with Markus Bailey the lone exception.
Replace walk-on's with 2 stars and no stars, and then you have Gladeskat's (and Randy Walker's) recruiting strategy.
That is fair. I let my personal bias get to me I suppose. When coaches put a PWO ahead of a scholarship player, that tends to make me think the PWO is outperforming expectations and/or perhaps the scholarship player isn't. All other things being equal, I would expect the coaches to stick with the scholarship player. Kind of like Denver wanting Lynch to win the job over Siemian. And so the PWO would have to be beating the scholarship player flat out with a clear gap to win - if it were close or neck and neck then he wouldn't be ahead in the depth chart. That may in fact not be what is happening.
Bait... cannot... resist...
A certain WR at NU who had no arm strength started over a QB who had enough to make it to the NFL recently.
Then again, hopefully the coaches learned their lesson from that travesty.
Sorry. I couldn't help it.
In any case, maybe he hasn't the greatest arm, but that didn't stop his coach from saying that he throws much better than Scheelhaase did.
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La. Tech is Division I, Blanda went to Kentucky, and Tittle went to LSU. Not sure what your point was.
That was a much better answer than "no" or "wrong."
I enjoyed it. Thanks.
Though I don't agree entirely with the analogy.
I think Smith is a far better passer and more accomplished (at the HS level) than Oliver was. I'm not sure what to think of Smith, but I don't think he was as productive as Alviti at the HS level, and I think while the analogy on Marty is a bit more on the mark, he is ahead of Thorson development wise. Probably, I put too much emphasis on HS production.