Not sure those two complement each other. Neither can shoot, and Grayson is a better distributor and will at least hit his free throws. We can't have only 1 shooter on the floor. I suspect the lineup we see moving forward is Grayson - AOC - Trent. Of course, since Coach plays Grayson 40 minutes, there will be overlap with him and Duval, but I think they just get in each other's way.
Time to bench Duval?
- Thread starter GillJET
- Start date
It's a shame that we have to pick which of those two is less bad. I hear where you're coming from, with Grayson being a senior. Pretty sure there's nothing he can do to 'fix it,' he probably beats himself up more than any of us possibly could.
I don’t know how long it will last but Grayson looked good yesterday. Duval came off the bench and went back to the bench quicker then anyone yesterday. His knock coming into college was his ability to run a team without having to score and I simply don’t think he’s figured out how yet. Duke needs his ability to drive and also to dish. If he could somehow figure out how to do both and play with in his self then he’s back to starting. Duval has so many weapons but is one himself if that makes since.
I’d be more worried about the second half play where it seemed like Duke went back to mental mistakes and allowed GT to get back in it.
I’d be more worried about the second half play where it seemed like Duke went back to mental mistakes and allowed GT to get back in it.
Maybe I was wrong. But I still don’t see any scenario where we can win a title without him. We saw what happened last year when we didn’t have a true point guard. I continue to believe the only way we raise another banner is to have Duval playing, and playing well.
NPOY? That ship sailed last year for Grayson.
All-ACC? Well to be honest, he kinda looked like one last night.
I don’t know Champ, you seem to think some people on here are guilty of not holding Grayson accountable enough. Maybe that’s true. I think it also might be true that you aren’t holding Trevon accountable enough.
Trevon makes bad plays. He's young so it's understandable. Grayson is a senior that looks like a freshman though. That's unacceptable. I know we won't reach our peak with Grayson at point guard. When we looked our best at the beginning of the year who was point guard? Damnit both of them need to play up to their potential
Grayson Allen is avg 15ppg 4reb 5asst and his stats are slightly better than last season....i really think grayson soph season spoiled us when he was the #1 option along with ingram........the past two seasons he has had (emerging amile jefferson, shouldve been accpoy luke kennard, a streaky frank jackson and star jayson tatum.........and now trent/bags/carter/duval who are all worthy of touches)......
Allen's not as bad as you're making him out to be man. No other senior at Duke has ever had to be a sole captain and lead 4 one and dones. You make it out like he's terrible. He has 4 freshmen alongside him that have been their main scoring option in high school, and now all of them are together at Duke, and instead of being selfish and looking for his shot, he's looked for them first. First! He's not looking out for his self. You're talking about a kid that could have looked for his points all year long to reach 2,000, yet he has deferred.
Stop this foolish bull sh%* talk and go out and get a clue. Move on.
Last edited:
I agree with you. I don't think we can raise the banner with Grayson trying to force the action and make plays for others for 40 minutes. Goldwire as our primary might work well against mid level teams, but I don't see him playing well 6 games in a row in an arena environment against quick guards. I like what we saw last night. Getting Alex in there seems to alleviate some of the ball movement stoppage. Having the bigs be more deliberate and looking around worked well. Of course none of this will matter if we keep giving up wide open threes because we're too sucked into the middle.
Grayson stopped the bleeding last night with a solid game. This Duke teams ceiling will still involve Trevon being the PG with Grayson and Gary both on the wings.
It’s nice to be able to rely on Grayson though in a time of need. He did have 4 turnovers last night (should have been 5 or 6 but GT fumbled the ball twice) so let’s not act like he’s Steve Nash. He is steady and will get the job done, but it also slows our offense down, simply because he’s not as quick as Trevon. An argument can definitely be made though, that our offense will be more efficient without Trevon until he figures it out. Not as explosive though.
With Bagley out, Grayson stepped up like the senior that he is.
It’s nice to be able to rely on Grayson though in a time of need. He did have 4 turnovers last night (should have been 5 or 6 but GT fumbled the ball twice) so let’s not act like he’s Steve Nash. He is steady and will get the job done, but it also slows our offense down, simply because he’s not as quick as Trevon. An argument can definitely be made though, that our offense will be more efficient without Trevon until he figures it out. Not as explosive though.
With Bagley out, Grayson stepped up like the senior that he is.
Last edited:
I do like lineups that feature AOC instead of Duval because that gives you 3 threats from behind the arc. And AOC might be the best shooter on the team.
Why are you still talking? If I'm not mistaking you thing Goldwire should start over Tre. I don't respect your knowledge one bit. It's a waste of time for me to even talk to you honestly. Grayson has been trash against good competition. If Grayson was the #1 option then we would be in bad shape. The 4th best player being the #1 option smh. Now go sit in a corner somewhere
Capel on the decision to sit Trey, and Trey's reaction:
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article199701749.html
OFC
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article199701749.html
OFC
The case for O'Connell starting:
http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/02/why-alex-oconnell-may-provide-a-lineup-upgrade
OFC
http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/02/why-alex-oconnell-may-provide-a-lineup-upgrade
OFC
The author of that is 19 years old. He makes good points, but takes it too far when he finishes with "If Duval is starting, everyone but him is losing." Duval can be very effective if he starts making better decisions and continues to shoot well. For now, my choice would be to play Alex more than Tre, but to start Duval to minimize damage to his draft stock and stories like these. Alex clearly facilitates better ball movement. What's the case for Gary though? He shoots lights out and gets the occasional steal? Gary and Tre could take us to the next level if they just started playing with their heads up.
Some of the brightest folks in the world are 19 year old undergrads at Duke University.
OFC
Whatever.....you can still be a very bright student and write informative articles. But hey I agree with your opinion on "very little living" Datt.
OFC
Of course. I'm not going to dismiss someone's take just b/c they're 19. If it's w/o merit, attributing part of it to their being 19 is actually a measure of grace, implying they can't help but have that inexperience. And if it's a great take I'll credit them w/ being wise beyond their years in that moment.
He's perceptive. I agree with him that the Slim Reaper may improve things on O. He should know better than to be a bit disparaging to Tre. The thing about most 19 year olds is they lack tact. Plus, does he really want to bump into Tre on the bus at 3AM after calling for his benching? The life of a journalist I guess...
First, I agree that we need Duval to win #6.
Second, I agree with most of the criticisms of Duval after a loss.
These aren't mutually exclusive. I don't understand why we jump on a poster for saying Duval needs to be benched, but don't mind when Coach K decides to bench him. Most people on here aren't saying it needs to be a permanent benching, but when you have a really bad game and aren't applying the advice of coaches, it helps to come off the bench. It's called coaching. We've seen this done to seniors. It's not the end of the world when it happens to a freshman.
I agree Duval's shot is drastically better since the new year. That's most likely due to the vision issues, and I'm happy the staff was able to address that. However, I think most of the frustration on this board after a loss is because games where Duval is forcing things seem to coincide with our losses. I've highlighted Duval's 3pt shots and turnovers for our four losses since the new year. Are we losing because he's forcing things, or is he forcing things because we're losing? I don't know. If it's the latter, my hope is that he can learn how to turn a game around without forcing passes and taking bad shots.
Second, I agree with most of the criticisms of Duval after a loss.
These aren't mutually exclusive. I don't understand why we jump on a poster for saying Duval needs to be benched, but don't mind when Coach K decides to bench him. Most people on here aren't saying it needs to be a permanent benching, but when you have a really bad game and aren't applying the advice of coaches, it helps to come off the bench. It's called coaching. We've seen this done to seniors. It's not the end of the world when it happens to a freshman.
I agree Duval's shot is drastically better since the new year. That's most likely due to the vision issues, and I'm happy the staff was able to address that. However, I think most of the frustration on this board after a loss is because games where Duval is forcing things seem to coincide with our losses. I've highlighted Duval's 3pt shots and turnovers for our four losses since the new year. Are we losing because he's forcing things, or is he forcing things because we're losing? I don't know. If it's the latter, my hope is that he can learn how to turn a game around without forcing passes and taking bad shots.