i think this says a lot about his character. instead of being upset about the loss, he is tweeting his dunk immediately after the game? this type of action does not evoke a team first attitude, imo. i have not noticed a me first attitude on the court but this gesture makes me feel like he is not fully vested in the team being successful.
Time to bench Duval?
- Thread starter GillJET
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i think this says a lot about his character. instead of being upset about the loss, he is tweeting his dunk immediately after the game? this type of action does not evoke a team first attitude, imo. i have not noticed a me first attitude on the court but this gesture makes me feel like he is not fully vested in the team being successful.
Trevon hasn't been playing well, but neither has Grayson. That's more of a problem than singling one out over the other. That, in essence, is our backcourt.
I think Jordan Goldwire is going to give us some nice moments as a career backup with his ability to defend and distribute....although I don't think his time to be thrust into the starting lineup is now as a true freshman. I just don't see this time being able to reach their full potential this season with Jordan leading the offense. And to be honest, right now I'm not sure I see it with Trevon, either....but he's clearly the better option, IMO.
I think Jordan Goldwire is going to give us some nice moments as a career backup with his ability to defend and distribute....although I don't think his time to be thrust into the starting lineup is now as a true freshman. I just don't see this time being able to reach their full potential this season with Jordan leading the offense. And to be honest, right now I'm not sure I see it with Trevon, either....but he's clearly the better option, IMO.
But he couldn't have retweeted it unless his phone was with him on the bench. It was retweeted during the game.
Point Guard is clearly the main problem. Bigs are quite dependent on offensive flow and entry passes.
But what options do we currently have?
ACC regular season title is over. We need a legitimate Point Guard to challenge in March. So I think we need to sink or swim with Duval and continue trying to develop him.
*There was a specific play that caught my eye. In the 2nd Half after Duval made that poor decision to drive and dish back out to the 3 point line for a turnover. A couple possessions after he had the ball at the arc right In front of our bench and was struggling to pass inside to Bagley. You could see our bench erupt with what I perceived to be screams of "Pass It!". And I mean it seemed every guy on the bench. After swinging the pass Duval then turned to the bench and said something. A few seconds later the whistle blew and now the entire bench was quiet and only White clapped his hands for support
I don't think Duval said anything bad, probably just "Okay, I got it" or "Just chill" but it showed me he likely is playing under severe pressure. Duke is very very demanding. Some (many) players struggle under such circumstances but Coach K only has 1 year with these kids so it is necessary. Anyway that just stood out to me that he might be really pressing and thus second guessing his instincts (like the drive and dish turnover instead of putting up a shot).
But what options do we currently have?
ACC regular season title is over. We need a legitimate Point Guard to challenge in March. So I think we need to sink or swim with Duval and continue trying to develop him.
*There was a specific play that caught my eye. In the 2nd Half after Duval made that poor decision to drive and dish back out to the 3 point line for a turnover. A couple possessions after he had the ball at the arc right In front of our bench and was struggling to pass inside to Bagley. You could see our bench erupt with what I perceived to be screams of "Pass It!". And I mean it seemed every guy on the bench. After swinging the pass Duval then turned to the bench and said something. A few seconds later the whistle blew and now the entire bench was quiet and only White clapped his hands for support
I don't think Duval said anything bad, probably just "Okay, I got it" or "Just chill" but it showed me he likely is playing under severe pressure. Duke is very very demanding. Some (many) players struggle under such circumstances but Coach K only has 1 year with these kids so it is necessary. Anyway that just stood out to me that he might be really pressing and thus second guessing his instincts (like the drive and dish turnover instead of putting up a shot).
Yea I agree 100% if the tweet happened after the game.The apparent tweet is in doubt as to when it happened. Dukiejay has pointed out that it occurred during the game, Duke Digest was saying it happened after. I'm not on twitter to know 100% which is right.
It's just frustrating to everyone, that it appears we are so close to being a great team, but yet we don't have the solution as to what will make it a great team. Everyone has an idea, but no one knows 100% what the solution is. Maybe it is giving Grayson more time at pg. Maybe Goldwire should get minutes at PG, Maybe AOC should play for one of the bigs and run 4 guards with 1 big, Maybe they run Javin/Bolden for Allen spot. Maybe they revisit the 1-3-1 zone from a few years ago. Only time will tell if they find the solution.
I think if you want to bench Grayson it would have to be for Goldwire. Maybe that could work, but I'm assuming Goldwire isn't quite ready for all that. You can't bench Grayson for O'Connell, they are way too similar and there isn't anything O'Connell does better than Grayson. I also don't think you can bench Duval for Goldwire. I hate to use the word "politics", but man I would imagine 5-star freshman PG Duval would not appreciate being benched for 3-star freshman PG Goldwire. And again, I don't think Goldwire is ready for all that.
But O'Connell for Duval will change the dynamics and possibly it would be for the better. I just want to see us shake things up.
according to laura keeley, who i still follow, he retweeted the original tweet after the game in the locker room. i saw the same thing she saw shortly after the game.
I've lost a ton of respect for the kid if he actually did that. I wouldn't want him as a teammate, that's for sure.
It's possible you're right. When I looked at the time stamp last night I could have swore the time of the retweet was during the game.
As I said last night in the game thread....if he did, indeed, tweet that after the game in the locker room or even back in Durham, it says a lot.
I have no issues with Duval's effort. I have issues with his decision making. He's very raw. Perhaps he was rated above his skill level based on his physical gifts.
If we are going to point fingers, they need to be pointed at our senior captain. His slump is the reason we have a tough time down the stretch of games. When we get punched in the mouth our senior is supposed to take the wheel and lead us back. He has done absolutely nothing since early this season. IMO he should shoulder most of the blame. What on earth has happened to his game??? It’s very frustrating.
He's the same inefficient player that he was in high school. High turnovers, poor shooting, weaker than expected on defense.
The problem is we're running an offense (2 bigs) that the staff doesn't know how run right. Compounding that, our guards aren't good at the getting bigs the ball, and can't shoot straight.
The reality is that both Duval and Grayson are shells of what we expected, and we don't have the depth to do anything about that.
This is something Coach has done to himself, with our recruiting and refusing to play and develop a bench.
Having said that, this team just doesn't fit and I don't expect us to make it to the 2nd weekend. I'm hopeful that next year will be different, as I expect that AOC, one of Bolden/Javin, and possibly Trent come back. Trent is a key, as he appears to have the leadership qualities that Grayson doesn't begin to possess.
The problem is we're running an offense (2 bigs) that the staff doesn't know how run right. Compounding that, our guards aren't good at the getting bigs the ball, and can't shoot straight.
The reality is that both Duval and Grayson are shells of what we expected, and we don't have the depth to do anything about that.
This is something Coach has done to himself, with our recruiting and refusing to play and develop a bench.
Having said that, this team just doesn't fit and I don't expect us to make it to the 2nd weekend. I'm hopeful that next year will be different, as I expect that AOC, one of Bolden/Javin, and possibly Trent come back. Trent is a key, as he appears to have the leadership qualities that Grayson doesn't begin to possess.
I Felt we saw Coach K throw every possible lineup out there last night.
My issue with Grayson at PG is it makes us too reliant on Trent. Whom to me is a strong 2nd guard/attacker but not polished enough to consistently carry the team offensively unless his 3 point shot is falling.
Such a lineup would require O'Connell to take quite a step as a player and while not a far stretch, it is unlikely. He is currently still one dimensional.
I expect to see more tinkering with on the floor lineups. I think Duval might struggle coping with 1 month to go with such a demotion as no longer starting. I haven't seen a bench player out perform him by such a stretch that it would be warranted. As of now
The bottom line is we are dead unless Duval starts playing like a point guard on his way to the nba after this season and Allen plays better.
Neither one are playing like we need them to. Of course he's more talented than Goldwire, but we don't need the guy looking to posterize someone. We need our point guard to DISTRIBUTE the ball, and we need more than 9 points against our main rival, and 5 points against Virginia out of Grayson.
Oh and let's not forget our defense either. It wouldn't hurt if they guarded a little better. They look like they're at a fire drill way too often.
Yes a lot of this is on K. It's up to him to get everyone on the same page.
Neither one are playing like we need them to. Of course he's more talented than Goldwire, but we don't need the guy looking to posterize someone. We need our point guard to DISTRIBUTE the ball, and we need more than 9 points against our main rival, and 5 points against Virginia out of Grayson.
Oh and let's not forget our defense either. It wouldn't hurt if they guarded a little better. They look like they're at a fire drill way too often.
Yes a lot of this is on K. It's up to him to get everyone on the same page.
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I think this is right. You can tell Coach is trying everything, but this lineup just doesn't give him many levers at this point. I think Grayson is what he is - 2015/16 was an aberration. Our best hope is Duval somehow overcomes his tendencies to do dumb stuff.
I agree that we would be asking O'Connell to take quite a step. But unfortunately that's where we are. AOC has already surprised us all this year with how much he has contributed. I'm pretty sure most everybody figured he would basically be a non-factor this season.
I just want to see how the whole team reacts to this lineup switch. Most notably Duval and Grayson since they are the 2 really struggling right now. I'm not saying this lineup switch is the long term answer, but its an adjustment we should try now and see how it goes. Can't keep trotting out this same starting 5 and expect much different results. And I'm done believing that we can just wait for it all to hopefully "click" for 6 straight games in March.
I just think right now this team has bigger issues than who the five starters are going to be.
dj you just have a way of putting things into perspective. This thread could go on for pages and pages and no minds or opinions would change. I just think that some threads just need to end and this is one of them. I've been a little strong myself on some post since last night but a few people have touched a nerve and set me off. This is still a great board run by great mods and it just grinds my grit that certain posters seem to take advantage of the flexibility of the mods here and it seems it's not just unc and the occasional UK poster who IMO takes advantage of the tolerance of the mods we have here so I'm gonna follow my buddy Show and let them know how much they drag the board down. I've said it before and maybe it's because I am a senile,skeptical old fart but I think some of these so called Dukies aren't Dukies . I do understand they all aren't trolls and I hope I don't ever have to post the way I have since last night. OFC.
Oh ok, you’re being dismissive, right?
So where are the “good threads” on this board right now?
Sitting around and waiting for things to “click” is crazy at this point. Maybe the idea to bench Duval for O’Connell is a bad idea. But I’d rather try and do something at this point than do nothing at all.
1. DEFENSE
2. Careless turnovers
3. TRANSITION DEFENSE
4. Bench contributions (last night was encouraging, but still need to see more consistency from the bench)
5. 2ND CHANCE DEFENSE ONCE THE OPPOSITION GETS A REBOUND
6. Free-throws
7. DEFENDING THE 3
8. Lack of a killer instinct
9. DEFENSE
I understand O'Connell scored a lot last night, he is our worst defender, and it's not even close. Starting him is NOT the answer. We need his contributions off the bench. He got absolutely destroyed on defense last night.
Well, you're under the assumption that the staff isn't trying different things or pulling their own hair out. You need to see them with your own eyes in a game. If you don't, then it means they're doing the same thing over and over.
As for the 'good threads' I have no idea what you're talking about.
I would think, though, that by changing the starting lineup you solve all that.
Duval gets the benefit of the doubt because he came in with all this hype. 5 star explosive athlete, going to lead Duke all the way. Goldwire is the lowly 3 star kid that's just going to be a practice player, and maybe get into mop up situations.
My eyes see Goldwire as a steady point guard that sure wouldn't hurt us. No he may never play past Duke, but he's a lot better than some of you say he is, and Duval sure up to now hasn't lived up to his billing.
Things can change, and Duval has a higher ceiling. Kind of like the team huh?
My eyes see Goldwire as a steady point guard that sure wouldn't hurt us. No he may never play past Duke, but he's a lot better than some of you say he is, and Duval sure up to now hasn't lived up to his billing.
Things can change, and Duval has a higher ceiling. Kind of like the team huh?
I’m saying doing this as a motivational thing or send a message thing. I’m not saying O’Connell over Duval is the long term answer.
Geez you just couldn’t resist huh? You like to go on these long tangents about how people should “behave” on here, but you sure display “bad behavior” on here about as often as anybody.
Or maybe Grayson should go to the bench. He’s giving us nothing and he’s the worse defender of the 2. Duval has been scoring more than him. Alex can come in and do what Grayson has been doing but Alex looks like a better shooter right now. Letting the senior come off the bench would be easier.
Maybe that could work, but I’m not sure. I’d rather try that than keep trotting out this same starting 5.
I couldn’t pass up a setup like that.
And again, no idea what you’re talking about with the behaving. I think Sgt. Hulka should take you out for a drink.
Duval gets the benefit of the doubt because he’s better. It’s that simple.
It would be akin to playing Javin over Wendell. Javin can be steady, too. But Wendell is better.
Of course Duval is better. But the fact that in February there is a thread on this site about benching him speaks volumes to his wild and inconsistent play.
If you're comparing Javin to Wendell the way Wendell is playing now, then yes, that is stupid. However, if Wendell was playing out of control half the time, like Duval is, then you could make the similar comparison as many are for taking him out of the starting lineup.
Shut up. Just shut up. You had me at, "Sgt Hulka should take [ him ] out."
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It doesn't seem like "of course" when you're describing it as coming in "with all this hype" and making it seem like it was some arbitrary (and melodramatic) slight that JG is the "lowly 3 star kid."
No it's "of course" like of course he's better, unless of course you're trying to make something out of nothing, which "of course" is what I would expect out of you.
In case you didn't know this, the thread that we are on here is an indicator that Duval's play as our starting point guard is debating whether he should be benched or not, of course you knew that already didn't you?
Sometimes it seems when Duval makes a great play he keeps on trying to make them even when the situation to make another is not there. For example drive to the basket and score then turn right around and do the same thing except turn the ball over because the defense is ready. OFC
I'm too young to know about Stripes. I had to Google that reference.
My final thought on this topic:
I'm not trying to bash Tre. I just think he is the odd man out here. We can't bench either one of our 2 phenomenal bigs. We can't bench either one of our shooters. We also could bench nobody at all, but the way this season has gone I don't think just standing pat is gonna work. I'm hoping the benching will "unlock" Tre to a certain extent. Send a message to this team. Bring a new energy to this team. Just do something positive for this team.
Seriously, what win do we have this year other than Michigan State, that you would say you were proud of our performance?
Ideally our best 5 come March will be Duval-Allen-Trent-Bagley-Carter. But for some reason, they haven't put it together yet really all year.
Come Sunday night, if its the same starting 5, yeah I'm gonna be disappointed a little because I'm gonna be thinking we are about to see the same old performance from this Duke team. And believe me I hope they prove my *** dead wrong because I'm not worried about being "right" or being considered an "elite basketball mind". I'm just a Duke fan, and a frustrated one right now because we haven't had a game to truly be proud of in about 3 months.