These wildfires in the west

[PineGroveBully]

75% of Americans probably believe climate change is a real thing to some degree. But then alot of these climate change people swear that the sea levels are going to rise so fast that parts of New York City will be underwater in the short term future.

The only problem with that is that some of the biggest global warming alarmist like Obama go and buy a $12 million mega mansion right on the coast on Martha’s Vineyard. Not something a smart person would do if they really thought we only had 12 years before our coastal cities are inundated. And the majority of people think Obama is a fairly smart man. So when a man of his stature preaches rising sea levels AND buys a $12M mansion on the beach it means 1 of 2 things. He’s either not very smart or he is being dishonest with the American people. That’s an inconvenient truth.

 

[Ibdancin]

Or does that only matter when you might get to shoot people?

Are they not arresting arsonists for setting some of these? [FONT=&quot]Michael Jarrod Bakkela, 41, was charged with two counts of arson, along with 15 counts of criminal mischief and 14 counts of reckless endangering.

[/FONT]Then there is this guy... Jonathan Maas, 44

Then there are videos of people setting random fires. Like a fire in the woods and running away when a car showed up. Or in the middle of the medium...

I can post them if you want.

 

[thatsbaseball]

You have got to be a troll. Nobody is this stupid.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

The wildfires are so bad because the Democrat environmentalist nuts won't allow clear cutting of dead timber. They aren't allowed to properly deforest, so the whole area is basically kindling. Every time a small fire gets loose, it's going to keep turning into a major wildfire until someone wakes up and allow all the dead timber to be cleared. But since the religion of environmentalism won't allow it, who knows when that'll happen? Blaming Climate Change is just a convenient way for Democrats who have caused this to simultaneously shift the blame away from themselves and push their wacko green agenda that's the cause of rolling blackouts in Cali further forward. It's insanity, but that's the modern Democrat Party.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Things are being done. Electric cars are becoming more popular. Vehicle emission standards are much better than they once were. We are using tons more natural gas these days. But the US could capture every greenhouse gas this country produces before it ever reached the atmosphere and it wouldn’t make one bit of difference as long as countries like China and India continue to to pump colossal amount of pollution in the air and water.

 

[dawgoneyall]

So we do nothing?

What would you do to stop climate change.

I never hear any solution from the left.

You do know (maybe you don't) the indigenous people practiced controlled burning. Now the dumba$$ progressives controlling things won't allow burning.

Liberals just can't help screwing up things......

I guess there were no forest fires or hurricanes before Al Gore.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

So we do nothing?

Did everyone forget that the US leads in ghg reduction yoy

 

[PineGroveBully]

They sure don’t mind to get on their private planes and fly to Switzerland or wherever to discuss how we little people must change OUR lifestyle or the human race and the polar bears are doomed before going back to one of their 3 17,000 square feet mansions that use more electricity than some towns.

They would open a lot more minds if they practiced what they preached.

 

[WhiteShepherd07]

I’m far from a forestry expert but can climate change really be blamed? I just watched a piece in NBC news where they and Gov Newsome trying to blame it on climate change.

I remember seeing some comments maybe a year or 2 ago talking about how CA does a terrible job of managing their forest and it leads to more fires.

Curious what some of y’all in the industry think is the cause.

What’s absolutely amazing is how these fires just stopped once they hit the Canadian border.

 

[PineGroveBully]

On this subject, if you have never watched “Only the Brave” about the Granite Mountain Hotshots starring Josh Brolin and Jeff Bridges then you’re missing a damn fine movie.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Betting it has something to do with the metric system.**

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

What would you do to stop climate change.

I never hear any solution from the left.

You do know (maybe you don't) the indigenous people practiced controlled burning. Now the dumba$$ progressives controlling things won't allow burning.

Liberals just can't help screwing up things......

I guess there were no forest fires or hurricanes before Al Gore.

I do find it amusing that the people running New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, and California want us to let them run our energy solutions for climate change and green energy.

View attachment 17700

 

[RocketDawg]

Thought it was $15M but I suppose it depends on what article you read.

It doesn't really matter what the majority of the people "believe" - it's not religion and it shouldn't be politicized - it's whether the data support a warming climate. Here's an article with some hard data: https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/6/

Average temperatures in the US are increasing - there is no doubt. Whether it's just normal fluctuations or caused by mankind is open for debate, but in the history of the Earth we've had some widely varying climates, with little or no input from man. The last ice age ended about 12,000 years ago and not many people were driving cars or refining oil back then.

Locally, in every month the "normal" (30-year average) has gone up close to 2 degrees when 1971-2000 is compared to 1981-2010 published data. The next set of 30-year averages will come out soon from the NWS and I expect they'll increase once again.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Things have changed a lot as far as what “kids” could do since the late 80’s and early 90’s but when I was 10 I was helping my dad do some controlled burns. I was toting a diesel drip torch when I made the mistake of turning my back to the fire. The wind switched directions and some sage grass flamed up and singed all the hair on the back of my head. Had to go to school with a peeled head. Don’t know a lot of parents that would turn their 10 yo loose with a torch these days.

 

[engie]

Things have changed a lot as far as what “kids” could do since the late 80’s and early 90’s but when I was 10 I was helping my dad do some controlled burns. I was toting a diesel drip torch when I made the mistake of turning my back to the fire. The wind switched directions and some sage grass flamed up and singed all the hair on the back of my head. Had to go to school with a peeled head. Don’t know a lot of parents that would turn their 10 yo loose with a torch these days.

Same. Been toting one my whole life with strict oversight early on. Learned a lesson as a teen getting in a hurry about converging two flameheads and depriving oxygen although there were no real repercussions of it. Sure looked wicked and scared me though

 

[CoastDawg18]

I love in northern CA. Fires all around, smoke has been solid for weeks now, and everything outside is covered in ashes. It’s pretty bad. All I’ll say is that you can’t really do controlled burns in these areas. You can definitely burn but the control part would be a problem. It is so dry, low humidity, windy and rough terrain out here. It’s just not feasible in most of the areas that are burning. Regarding fire lanes, they are cut all over the place here to protect residential areas. We have a big cleared lane that is tilled up along the back of my property line. I can’t speak for what they do in forest areas but lanes are definitely well managed around residential areas.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Is there anyway we can build some huge bulldozers and push California off into the Pacific Ocean? That would put all the fires out, wouldn’t it? ****

 

[dudehead]

What would you do to stop climate change.

I never hear any solution from the left.

You do know (maybe you don't) the indigenous people practiced controlled burning. Now the dumba$$ progressives controlling things won't allow burning.

Liberals just can't help screwing up things......

I guess there were no forest fires or hurricanes before Al Gore.

The first step is to admit there is a problem.

 

[PineGroveBully]

The Paris Treaty that Obama entered us into was unconstitutional anyway. A president can not enter the US into a treaty without the consent of the senate. I believe Chuck Schumer raised that issue at first as well.

 

[RocketDawg]

Was wondering something - pictures on television, especially San Francisco, show the sky to be orange. Does it really look like that, or was it enhanced for effect?

I've seen smoke from wildfires (it was here a few years ago from fires in south Georgia/north Florida) and it just looked murky, not orange.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

That’s what I’ve always heard. They refuse to do controlled burns because they don’t want to kill wildlife, bugs, etc. Controlled burns are the only way they can stop these things from getting so bad

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

Was wondering something - pictures on television, especially San Francisco, show the sky to be orange. Does it really look like that, or was it enhanced for effect?

I've seen smoke from wildfires (it was here a few years ago from fires in south Georgia/north Florida) and it just looked murky, not orange.

Might have been a dawn/dusk type setting.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Yep, but humans and their homes are expendable.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

In the past, millions of acres a year burned. Now they stop fires they should let burn.
They don't do enough controlled burns. Alabama has more acres control burned than California.
They don't cut or burn fire breaks.
A lucrative economy has grown around fighting fires.
https://www.kqed.org/science/192735...-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

They can’t just let things burn in Northern California. The dry air and the constant Santa Anna winds don’t allow you to control fire like we can here. When a tree limb or any wooden structure is above a flame, it burns in an upward arc So the resulting embers take the shape of an airplane wing and it creates uplift. With a 12-20 mile per hour constant Santa Ana wind, those embers carry 15 to 20 miles and start numerous fires elsewhere. Firefighters can’t stay in front of all that. It’s just about impossible to do a “controlled” burn in Northern California.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

I love in northern CA. Fires all around, smoke has been solid for weeks now, and everything outside is covered in ashes. It’s pretty bad. All I’ll say is that you can’t really do controlled burns in these areas. You can definitely burn but the control part would be a problem. It is so dry, low humidity, windy and rough terrain out here. It’s just not feasible in most of the areas that are burning. Regarding fire lanes, they are cut all over the place here to protect residential areas. We have a big cleared lane that is tilled up along the back of my property line. I can’t speak for what they do in forest areas but lanes are definitely well managed around residential areas.

^^^^^ This. A lot of experts on here don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. A controlled burn in Northern California is just about impossible.

 

[engie]

The first step is to admit there is a problem.

I admit there's a problem.

I'm also not willing to start down a path that leads to eventually subjugating ourselves to the Chinese in order to pat ourselves on the back and pretend we're doing something about it. And I don't think there's any way they ever quit coming for the throne. So therein lies the impasse that divides us.

It's basically the same logical fallacy as a gun/drug control campaign along with open borders. That's the nonstarter to even having the conversation.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Right. Save the bugs to lose lives

 

[engie]

^^^^^ This. A lot of experts on here don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. A controlled burn in Northern California is just about impossible.

Native Americans did it successfully for thousands of years and are currently starting to do it again there. Just because you can't walk outside on any given day and light a match to it without causing a major problem doesn't mean that it can not and should not be done by the professionals when the conditions are right. Literally every professional in the field I've read agree that it can and should be done -- and the limitations are bureaucratic and political much moreso than logistical.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/24/8994...nia-looks-to-what-tribes-have-known-all-along

https://www.motherjones.com/environ...controlled-prescribed-burns-native-americans/

 

[PineGroveBully]

It can be done. You would have to do it when the winds are going to be light or in the correct direction. And you wouldn’t hafta wait until things got this dry. You would have to incorporate clearing dead timber first to eliminate a lot of the fuel. As soon as bugs get in the timber it should be cleared. Doing it in small sections late in the day when the winds normally lay would help. If you are doing preventive actions as opposed to reactionary actions like you are seeing now then you could have the dozers where they needed to be along with having your choppers and planes ready to douse things before the fire became uncontrollable. Also doing the burns earlier in the year when everything is green would help. You could also drop water or fire retardant over huge areas of the forest that you didn’t want to burn right before you began to keep the burn area small.

You are right that you couldn’t just go out there willie nilly and start a burn like you would around MS but professionals could absolutely do it.

 

[tmjdog]

I’m far from a forestry expert also, but I am an expert on my opinion. Hell no, the fires are not related to man made climate change - it’s just another scare tactic & a liberals excuse for anything they can’t control, and a stupid reason 2 raise your taxes.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

On this subject, if you have never watched “Only the Brave” about the Granite Mountain Hotshots starring Josh Brolin and Jeff Bridges then you’re missing a damn fine movie.

Watched it more than once and read what I could about them. Sad and dramatic movie.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

Native Americans did it successfully for thousands of years and are currently starting to do it again there. Just because you can't walk outside on any given day and light a match to it without causing a major problem doesn't mean that it can not and should not be done by the professionals when the conditions are right. Literally every professional in the field I've read agree that it can and should be done -- and the limitations are bureaucratic and political much moreso than logistical.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/24/8994...nia-looks-to-what-tribes-have-known-all-along

https://www.motherjones.com/environ...controlled-prescribed-burns-native-americans/

Good luck to the Indians. Conditions are quiet different now than they were thousands of years ago. I’ve been out there and I’ve studied this extensively. Ideally, yes if you could do a controlled burn over the entire northern part of California and eliminate everything that could be considered fuel then you could eliminate these wildfires. But even in areas that have adopted new codes which don’t allow any pine bark, any mulch or anything that could be considered as an ignition source or fuel for fire, we’ve tracked embers blowing into an attic vent gables in houses over 125 miles from the source of the fire and catching the installation of that house on fire. And then catching the surrounding houses on fire. The conditions have become more conducive. I’m not here to argue climate change or what’s happened but it’s a fact. I personally don’t think it’s necessarily man-made. I think it’s just something that’s happening For whatever reason. But things are much different than they were when the Indians were doing a controlled burn over a few hundred acres a thousand years ago. Back then when **** got out of hand, you didn’t hear about it because the area wasn’t as populated as it is now. And make no mistake, the weather conditions have become much more conducive to wildfires. The DFPC in Colorado as long been doing controlled burns but yet the wildfires there are getting more extreme every year. And they don’t deal with the Santa Anna winds that Northern California deals with. Yes, controlled burns need to be part of the management problem but that’s not going to alleviate it.

 

[PineGroveBully]

I don’t doubt that embers have traveled 100+ miles, but that is with these raging uncontrollable fires. No doubt wild fires would still be an issue but once you remove a lot of the fuel those fires won’t burn near as hot keeping the flames much more at bay which would drastically cut down on embers getting up in the air reducing their ability to travel near as far.

I’ve got a friend that lives in Cali, talked to him tonight and the Oak fire is only about 30 miles from his house. Scary stuff. He said the air quality is nil at his place.

 

[dawgoneyall]

They can’t just let things burn in Northern California. The dry air and the constant Santa Anna winds don’t allow you to control fire like we can here. When a tree limb or any wooden structure is above a flame, it burns in an upward arc So the resulting embers take the shape of an airplane wing and it creates uplift. With a 12-20 mile per hour constant Santa Ana wind, those embers carry 15 to 20 miles and start numerous fires elsewhere. Firefighters can’t stay in front of all that. It’s just about impossible to do a “controlled” burn in Northern California.

Wrong.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

Jeffrey Alan Acord...plays with matches & wants to Defund the Police.

View attachment 17705View attachment 17706View attachment 17707

 

[paindonthurt_]

You haven’t met my brother.

 

[paindonthurt_]

They weren’t in the Bay Area while I was there in October/November last year.

I was watching fires thinking to myself how convenient it would be if those houses had several disced up lanes around them.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Now do criminals getting killed by the police.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

Wrong.

That Actually made me laugh. Good job backing it up though.

 

[grinnindawg]

I've driven through Lassen county and Yosemite NP when they were doing controlled burns. They'd just completed some in Sequoia before we arrived.

There is a "Humbolt County Prescribed burn association". https://humcopba.net/links/