There's a war going on....

[paindonthurt]

What are you rolling your eyes at?

Everything I posted in the 3 groups of bullet points is accurate. All that has been said, often multiple times, but Trump and high up Admin spokespeople.
It is conflicting and confusing, but it has all been said. Sometimes, conflicting comments are made in the same day or even by the same person.
Total 180 claims.


If you rolled your eyes at my personal opinion about whether boots on the group will be necessary, I welcome you to type out a comment that better expresses what you disagree with and what is more correct or a better suggestion.

Yeah?

and this is true too

Obama built the wall that made people call DJT a racist
Obama put kids in cages. In fact the exact kids in the pic where DJT was villainized.

It’s not technically a war legally. But it is war. Quit acting like that’s a big deal.

if we are still fighting this “war” in a year I’ll say it was a bad idea. Why? Bc I’m not a hypocrite. But making the attempt is a good idea regardless of the outcome bc we don’t have the benefit of seeing into the future.

 

[paindonthurt]

Trump used to be able to hang his (red) hat on no new wars.

Even his most ardent haters couldn't say anything bad about that.

I think he will really regret not keeping that streak alive.

I don’t think he will.

 

[L4Dawg]

I’m guessing they are waiting for the right time and I’m also not sure we want them in control

They don't have the power in Iran to do much I'm afraid. The IRG is still solidly in control on the ground.

 

[paindonthurt]

You are coming at this with the view that our creating this was is American or pro-American.
That is the conclusion to draw when you say being critical of the claimed success is anti-American.


My prior post was apparently obvious, yet based on what you claimed, it seemed necessary to say.

It is 100% being anti trump to say we are losing and it’s a quagmire. If you are that anti trump that you root for Irans current regime you are anti American.

 

[paindonthurt]

I'm seeing a lot of people confident that there is uranium to be found. Is this the same uranium Saddam also definitely had?

Yes, Iran is under the thumb of a ****** regime. Sounds more like a problem for Iranians and their neighbors, but not us. I long for the days we stop acting as World Police and mind our own business.

The problem is the Middle East is strategic to us both militarily and economically.

 

[paindonthurt]

Reality. Reality says we haven't been in a half century long war with Iran.

Reality says we have been fighting with them off and on in the last 50 years.

 

[L4Dawg]

It is 100% being anti trump to say we are losing and it’s a quagmire. If you are that anti trump that you root for Irans current regime you are anti American.

It's neither of those things yet, neither does it have to be that way. It will be if we continue to do what we are doing.

 

[L4Dawg]

Reality says we have been fighting with them off and on in the last 50 years.

This is absolutely correct.

 

[paindonthurt]

We are overextended around the world no doubt.

But I also think we, as the obvious Superpower on this planet have a responsibility to deal with blatant criminals running countries that are rich in natural resources. I still believe we are the best of a ragged bunch on this planet and we can't let blatant criminality go unchecked.

And yes, I know it's rampant in this country as well. Love to fix that too, but I'm just one man.

See I differ a little.
We should deal with criminals to an extent but us being the super power is better than Russia/China being the super power. FACT. Better for everyone.

if we retreat from the world China will fill the vacuum. They are/were already doing it.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

They are rapidly running low on available oil storage capacity due to the blockade. It has paralyzed Iran's exports and they have at most ~22 days of unused storage remaining before it reaches "tank tops," which is a critical point that will probably force a shutdown. They are also losing around $500 million a day and are having problems paying what little military personnel they have left, on top of a fractured chain-of-command and depleted military assets. It's getting worse by the day for Iran. At some point they are gonna HAVE to come to the table to negotiate in a REALISTIC manner.

I hope that forces them to negotiate. We are in for another inflationary period if this keeps up.

 

[L4Dawg]

I'm seeing a lot of people confident that there is uranium to be found. Is this the same uranium Saddam also definitely had?

Yes, Iran is under the thumb of a ****** regime. Sounds more like a problem for Iranians and their neighbors, but not us. I long for the days we stop acting as World Police and mind our own business.

International inspectors confirmed long ago that Iran has enriched uranium. If they get a bomb it will be our problem, because the religion of the rulers there says it will be used.

 

[paindonthurt]

Very unlikely unfortunately. Economic arguments don't work well on people who want to provoke an apocalypse.

It’s not gonna change their mind set but they pay a lot of their “terrorist”. If you can’t pay, “employees” tend to quit.

The military they have left loyal to the regime is definitely wanting to get paid.

 

[paindonthurt]

You said the American press and American institutions are awful and largely anti-American.
Your justification for that accusation is something I disagree with.

You are wrong.

 

[paindonthurt]

It's neither of those things yet, neither does it have to be that way. It will be if we continue to do what we are doing.

What? If you actively root for Iran bc you hate trump you are a POS. Fact.

 

[johnson86-1]

Iran not getting a bomb or having control of Hormuz is 100% in American interest. Either would be a disaster for America.

I'm not sure Iran having control of Hormuz is a long term problem. Unless there is regime change in Iran, other nations should be arranging their supply chains around not relying on the straight of Hormuz. I don't know if terrorist attacks would make it untenable, but an approximately 800 mile pipeline from Kuwait to the mediterranean sea isn't crazy long. If that was built and Saudi Arabia expanded its pipeline capacity to the Red Sea (and could avoid houthi's closing the strait leaving the red sea, or could put a new pipeline across Oman (I know nothing about how stable it is or whether there are iran proxy groups that commit terror from there), Iran would basically be out of cards to play in the future. I don't know what that would do to costs of oil or how long it would take to complete, but that would greatly limit Iran's ability to create chaos in the world economy.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Independent of party, if we don't stop bending the knee to Israel, and start focusing on US interests, we will keep having these kinds of things happen in the middle east. This is not an isolationist take. We are in a global economy. We should recognize that and understand where the US can best succeed in the world we live in today.

100% agree, the issue they fund half our politicians and blackmail the other half.

in 2028, the democratic POTUS nominee is going to run on an anti Israeli platform.

 

[HailStout]

Is anyone tracking the wealth of the first family and sons? It's the most profit he's ever personally made I think

This should bother everyone regardless of political affiliation. It’s not okay.

 

[Villagedawg]

We’ve gotten our *** handed to us. Not militarily, but in the outcome. We’ve known since WWII that you can’t bomb yourself to victory yet we try it over and over and over. Latest is we’ve declared victory and declared it over. Yeah right.

 

[mstateglfr]

It is 100% being anti trump to say we are losing and it’s a quagmire. If you are that anti trump that you root for Irans current regime you are anti American.

It isn't being 'anti Trump' to say we are losing and it's a quagmire.
I would question anyone that says we are losing because I don't think we are. But that's simply because there is nothing to measure of we are winning or losing since there are so many claimed goals of this war that isn't a war.

I do think it is a quagmire in that even the Administration can't keep straight whether the Strait is open or very limited, whether Iran agreed to our demands or agreed to their own list of demands, who is running Iran, whether we will leave soon or stay for a long time, etc etc.

It's a quagmire because the Administration's messaging is so inconsistent, conflicting, and confusing. If there was consistent and defendable messaging, it would seem like less of a quagmire.

I haven't heard of or read of anyone rooting for Iran. And calling it a quagmire is not rooting for Iran.


- I don't want Iran to win.
- I don't think we should have chosen to invade without provocation or need.

Both can be true.

 

[L4Dawg]

I'm not sure Iran having control of Hormuz is a long term problem. Unless there is regime change in Iran, other nations should be arranging their supply chains around not relying on the straight of Hormuz. I don't know if terrorist attacks would make it untenable, but an approximately 800 mile pipeline from Kuwait to the mediterranean sea isn't crazy long. If that was built and Saudi Arabia expanded its pipeline capacity to the Red Sea (and could avoid houthi's closing the strait leaving the red sea, or could put a new pipeline across Oman (I know nothing about how stable it is or whether there are iran proxy groups that commit terror from there), Iran would basically be out of cards to play in the future. I don't know what that would do to costs of oil or how long it would take to complete, but that would greatly limit Iran's ability to create chaos in the world economy.

The precedent would be disastrous. Others with eyes on narrow choke points are watching this. Freedom of navigation has been a bedrock American principle for centuries.. the Navy and Marines were literally founded with this in mind. We fought our first overseas conflict over it.

 

[L4Dawg]

What? If you actively root for Iran bc you hate trump you are a POS. Fact.

Well since I am not doing so why are you cussing Me? We have to win this. We aren’t doing nearly enough right now to avoid it eventually becoming what they say it is now. Today’s inaction will cost us terribly I’m afraid.

 

[mstateglfr]

Reality says we have been fighting with them off and on in the last 50 years.

Occasionally sanctoning them and then negotiating with them, and then dealing with the fallout of them bombing someone or someone bombing them is not a war.

- It is not a war.
- We have not been at war with Iran for 50 years.
- Congress did not declare war and supported a war for the last 5 decades.

Claiming we have been at war with Iran for 50 years is bonkers.
It ignores well accepted and used definitions. Its just making something mean something new.

 

[HailStout]

It frustrates me that the same people that were screaming for America to get out of foreign wars and the rest of the world’s business are now cheerleaders for what is going on in Iran and are doing mental gymnastics to explain how this is different. I just don’t understand morphing what you say you are for just because one guy says you should. It makes no sense to me.

be honest, there is no way the same people would have supported this action if the previous president had done it. It would have been a feeding frenzy against him.

 

[L4Dawg]

It’s not gonna change their mind set but they pay a lot of their “terrorist”. If you can’t pay, “employees” tend to quit.

The military they have left loyal to the regime is definitely wanting to get paid.

Your last sentence is the problem. The IRG appears to be in control to me. Economics probably won’t sway them much. They are religious fanatics, the most dangerous ones on the planet.

 

[L4Dawg]

It frustrates me that the same people that were screaming for America to get out of foreign wars and the rest of the world’s business are now cheerleaders for what is going on in Iran and are doing mental gymnastics to explain how this is different. I just don’t understand morphing what you say you are for just because one guy says you should. It makes no sense to me.

be honest, there is no way the same people would have supported this action if the previous president had done it. It would have been a feeding frenzy against him.

I would have supported it. It has needed doing since 1979.

 

[John Deaux VII]

It isn't being 'anti Trump' to say we are losing and it's a quagmire.
I would question anyone that says we are losing because I don't think we are. But that's simply because there is nothing to measure of we are winning or losing since there are so many claimed goals of this war that isn't a war.

I do think it is a quagmire in that even the Administration can't keep straight whether the Strait is open or very limited, whether Iran agreed to our demands or agreed to their own list of demands, who is running Iran, whether we will leave soon or stay for a long time, etc etc.

It's a quagmire because the Administration's messaging is so inconsistent, conflicting, and confusing. If there was consistent and defendable messaging, it would seem like less of a quagmire.

I haven't heard of or read of anyone rooting for Iran. And calling it a quagmire is not rooting for Iran.


- I don't want Iran to win.
- I don't think we should have chosen to invade without provocation or need.

Both can be true.

I can question the “need” but not provocation. They have done plenty over the last 50 years that has been provocative. I know this goes to the debate of how much we should support Israel, but what Hamas did on October 7 shouldn’t be tolerated in the free world under any circumstance and to say Iran should not be held accountable for it is Grade A horseshit. No different than 9-11….”We will make no distinction between the terrorist and those who harbor them”.

ETA - we can debate if the US should have gone into this pretty much alone but we can also discuss if other nations should have gotten involved as well. Western democracies and allies in Asia absolutely should be helping more in putting the screws on Iran. I think they absolutely should. I’m not for getting out of NATO or anything of the sort, but I can understand Trumps frustration with Europe not helping.

 

[L4Dawg]

Occasionally sanctoning them and then negotiating with them, and then dealing with the fallout of them bombing someone or someone bombing them is not a war.

- It is not a war.
- We have not been at war with Iran for 50 years.
- Congress did not declare war and supported a war for the last 5 decades.

Claiming we have been at war with Iran for 50 years is bonkers.
It ignores well accepted and used definitions. Its just making something mean something new.

They have been at war with us for 50 years.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

US backed regime changes since the Korean War. Not many successes there.

• Iran (1953)
• Guatemala (1954)
• Cuba (1961)
• Chile (1973)
• Vietnam (1960s)
• Democratic Republic of the Congo (1960s)
• Nicaragua (1980s)
• Panama (1989)
• Iraq (2003)
• Afghanistan (2001)
• Libya (2011)

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

They have been at war with us for 50 years.

What homeland attacks have they been behind?

 

[L4Dawg]

What homeland attacks have they been behind?

Homeland? Why does it matter where Americans have been killed? I hate to break to you but oceans don’t protect like we THOUGHT they did in the 1930s. Hiding at home is no defense.

 

[leeinator]

Need a limited ground invasion securing key Iranian assets, Like Kharg Island and other governmental/military installations. Capture, kill, and/or exile all of the Old Regime and IRGC. Most of this can be accomplished with Special Forces like the Navy Seals, Green Beret, Rangers, Delta Force, etc. Once the targets have been achieved, bring in the Marines to hold those assets in place. Then bring in the U.N. to conduct a nationwide free election of a new leader(s). Let the new government take hold then withdraw all U.S. forces with an agreement to inspect any suspicious activities from there on out. In addition, all weaponized Uranium leaves with the U.S. withdrawal.

 

[mstateglfr]

They have been at war with us for 50 years.

OK...but have we been at war with them for 50 years?

Honestly now. Think about what is a war as defined by our laws before you answer. Think about the countless state of the unions in that half century that don't mention a war with Iran before you answer.

 

[John Deaux VII]

What homeland attacks have they been behind?

American embassies are American soil.

 

[John Deaux VII]

OK...but have we been at war with them for 50 years?

Honestly now. Think about what is a war as defined by our laws before you answer. Think about the countless state of the unions in that half century that don't mention a war with Iran before you answer.