The G.O.A.T. does it again
- Thread starter RUboston
- Start date
I definitely think they (offensive picks) happen; my stance with penalties is that when an obvious one directly affects the outcome of a play, it needs to be called. I was coaching in a close game this past fall where we got a holding call in our favor (CB was being obviously held on a run that went for 20 yards late in the game). The other coach was arguing it, saying it was off the play, that kind of stuff happens all the time, and I’ll never forget the official’s response- “Coach, he (ballcarrier) ran *right by* him (kid getting held).” I would see the other coach’s point if the hold happened opposite the carry, but not when it significantly contributes to the outcome of a play...obviously stuff like unsportsmanlike conduct needs to be called every time.
One of my biggest beefs with the KC play was the WR didn’t even appear to attempt to disguise what he was doing. I played OL/DL in organized football but played enough street ball to know that you can run a crossing route, run straight at a defender, then move away at the last second or happen to ‘bump shoulders accidentally’ and no matter how much the defense argues, they’re not going to win the debate (I’ve been on both sides of it). The dude on KC didn’t even look like he was running a pattern. He cut in, ran one guy over 4 yards downfield (had it been on the line then whatever, that’s life) then intentionally engaged JMac before the ball was even thrown. If he continued on the in/crossing route he could have maybe played it off, but he changed direction and went straight at JMac, which was a dead giveaway.
Joe P.
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The same can't be said for the Elway SB winning teams. And Montana absolutely would have made Edelman the player he was if he were with the 49ers.
Anyone remotely knowledgeable about Philadelphia Eagles history knows Mahomes will never win a Super Bowl as long as Reid is there.
Your argument is that Brady is only Brady because he has better coaches and teams, but for the last 10 years, the Pats have been mostly JAGs and other team's castoffs. It's even more impressive because free agency changes the team composition pretty much every year.
Montana had great teams that stuck together and Bill Walsh was no schlub, so you can't argue any advantage for Brady in any aspect.
Elway's super bowls were won because of Terrell Davis. When Elway had Pats level talent, he didn't win anything. His whole career is based on two drives against the Browns. Brady has had like 50 equally clutch drives in his career on much bigger stages than Elway.
The Patriots always winning the AFC East is certainly helped by having the Jets in their Division. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Brady is a great player but the notion that he doesn’t have great players around is overplayed. Gronk is a first ballot HOFer and maybe the toughest matchup in the history of the game. Randy Moss is in the HOF. Also, Edelman is probably one of the top slot receivers of all time. (I’ll grant you that guys like Hogan aren’t special).
In addition, Brady has maybe had the best coaching in the history of the game. The same OC for 15/19 years, BB (of course), and Dante Scarnecki (sp), who is regarded as a legendary OL coach. Brady has no mobility and yet he never gets hit. Sure he gets the ball out fast but he’s had great OL play in front of him.
In addition, Brady has maybe had the best coaching in the history of the game. The same OC for 15/19 years, BB (of course), and Dante Scarnecki (sp), who is regarded as a legendary OL coach. Brady has no mobility and yet he never gets hit. Sure he gets the ball out fast but he’s had great OL play in front of him.
When he does get hit, yellow hankies fly all over the field. An entire class of rules was implemented after Brady took a shot that ended his season. Can't have that!
Also can't forget the tuck rule that launched his playoff career...Oakland wins that game in 2001.
Tom Brady is a very good quarterback. GOAT? Please.
When you start with that GOAT nonsense, then I have to say it: Brady is overrated.
Most of his career wins are against the AFC East, possibly the worst division in football. Jets are in the running for worst franchise in all of sports; Dolphins not far behind; and the Bills haven't been consistently good for over 20 years. His competition to make the playoffs has been a joke his whole career.
He's won 5 super bowls? Yeah, against who and by how much? He's won by a combined 19 points against no one special. Who? The Eagles when their composed leader McNabb puked all over himself? The Panthers, led by that all-time great Jake Delhomme? I'll give you 2001 against The Greatest Show On Turf (even though he should not have been there anyway with the Tuck Rule BS), but that was one game almost 20 years ago. And spare me the wins over the Seahawks and Falcons. Those games weren't won; they were lost by his opponents in legendary fashion. By all accounts, he should be 3-5 in the big game.
Oh, and he has lost to Eli Manning in the Super Bowl. Twice. Eli Manning. Dude...
Let me be clear. Is Brady a good quarterback? Yes. A great quarterback? Yes. Maybe even an all-time great, although I'd take at least ten other QBs before him if I had to win one game. But the GOAT? That's absolutely absurd.
Flame me. I care not. The truth protects me.
When you start with that GOAT nonsense, then I have to say it: Brady is overrated.
Most of his career wins are against the AFC East, possibly the worst division in football. Jets are in the running for worst franchise in all of sports; Dolphins not far behind; and the Bills haven't been consistently good for over 20 years. His competition to make the playoffs has been a joke his whole career.
He's won 5 super bowls? Yeah, against who and by how much? He's won by a combined 19 points against no one special. Who? The Eagles when their composed leader McNabb puked all over himself? The Panthers, led by that all-time great Jake Delhomme? I'll give you 2001 against The Greatest Show On Turf (even though he should not have been there anyway with the Tuck Rule BS), but that was one game almost 20 years ago. And spare me the wins over the Seahawks and Falcons. Those games weren't won; they were lost by his opponents in legendary fashion. By all accounts, he should be 3-5 in the big game.
Oh, and he has lost to Eli Manning in the Super Bowl. Twice. Eli Manning. Dude...
Let me be clear. Is Brady a good quarterback? Yes. A great quarterback? Yes. Maybe even an all-time great, although I'd take at least ten other QBs before him if I had to win one game. But the GOAT? That's absolutely absurd.
Flame me. I care not. The truth protects me.
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Good point, "Teflon Don" Brady had quite the clean uniform yesterday, did he get sacked? Hit once?
The guy has had GREAT protection throughout his career, with numerous offensive lineman, gotta credit their OC coach big time!
LOL. Did he steal Giselle from you? (just kidding--you have been very vocal).
All the great teams have feasted on inferior divisions. The Montana 49ers went up against the Falcons ands Saints when they were dregs, they were easily the class of their division. The only real competition coming from Dickenson Rams who had 3 winning seasons with a forgettable QB. It is part of. The equation. But still the Patriots play 10 games against the rest of the league and have a winning record against the rest every year. They win 75% no matter which division they face.
Off the top of my head...
Montana
Elway
Marino
Young
Johnny U
Brees
Big Ben
Aikman
Favre
Rodgers
Peyton
and of course Eli (2-0 versus Brady in the Super Bowl, 'nuff said)
Maybe even Fouts, Moon, or Warner
Picture any of these guys playing for the Patriots instead of Brady. I see all of them doing at least as well, and probably better. Search your feelings; you know it to be true.
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Haha, do the opposite and put Brady on any of those QB's teams and he'd probably have won 10 straight Super Bowls...the 80's 49ers, Terrell Davis' Broncos, Aikman's 90's Cowboys teams? Brady with the Reggie White Packers defense from Farve's "glory years"? How many times did Peyton have the best team in the league only to choke in the playoffs and you'd take him over Brady? Insanity...
Funny thing is if not for one bonehead lining up offsides, something you might expect at the Pop Warner level; then the big story would have been that Brady's ints doomed the Patriots.
LOLOL. You think Brady on the 49ers beats Elway's Broncos 55-10? Or on the Cowboys whoops Jim Kelly's Bills 52-17? Pass me some of what you're smoking, brother.
And as for how many times Peyton had the best team in the league... Zero times. He never did. He carried his teams, but could only get so far. Brady has always had the better supporting cast and has been along for the ride.
Why not? Brady with Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Alvin Harper, Jay Novacek, that O-Line, that defense??
Peyton had Edge James, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark and he carried the team? Come on...who did Brady have better than those guys during that era? Antwoine Smith? Troy Brown? Ben Watson?
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Hogan was a lacrosse player at Penn State. He graduated with one year of eligibility left and then played one season of college football at Monmouth. He finished his college football career with 12 receptions for 147 yards.
The question is whether defenses would be allowed to touch those QBs, or if Brady rules would apply to them?
Corey Dillon was only on the Pats for 3 years and not at the same time as Moss/Welker. Brady only had Moss for 2 years. This is opposed to Peyton's trio (actually 4, forgot about Reggie Wayne) that stuck together for like 10 years (well, 7 for Edge). So basically, the Colts, during a 10 year period, had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and Edge James...yeah, Peyton really carried a bunch of JAGs around to yearly first round loses...
+1
Brady has been surrounded by average to slightly above average talent his entire career. Just makes his 9 SBs even more remarkable.
Bill Barnwell wrote that roofing the past has been called on 1 out of every 250 drop backs he had had in the playoffs. It's a poor rate. The rules are the same for everyone.
Dropbacks? He's barely touched on dropbacks. What's the rate per QB contact?
You mean like when Mahomes was hit low and a penalty was called against New England?
I don't know. Don't have those resources available. But even so that is about 1 penalty every 4 games at best. It doesn't support the conspiracy.
There are rules in the rulebook that are/were there only because of him. The "Brady rule" about defenders tackling below the knee, the nonsense "tuck rule" that was made up on the fly and finally got removed. Plus you can't tell me that Brady and guys like Cam Newton get the same treatment regarding hard contact.
It's like James Harden. Guy's a phenomenal talent - he doesn't need the special treatment on top of that to let him get to the line more often.
One can debate whether he's the GOAT, but to not have him near the top of that conversation is just moronic. As much as you might hate him and the Pats (I don't care about either), that's not a reason to use such poor judgment and analysis - it's simply ridiculous to dismiss his SB wins in any way.
These arguments were a lot more fun when the Pats had only been to 5 super bowls. Now the haters just look like haters trying to explain away 9 super bowls. Just stop. The proof is in the results. Don't over think it.
Brady is going to #9 at age 37, with probably the worst surrounding talent he has had so far... after doing the same thing last year.
Brady is going to #9 at age 37, with probably the worst surrounding talent he has had so far... after doing the same thing last year.
Keep sucking down that Brady kool-aid. I'll stick to critical, independent thinking. Kthxbye.
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